User talk:Hippo43
Hi, this may be a more suitable way to have a discussion. I'm curious what makes you sure that your way of doing things is the best... As mentioned, I am not the only person that understands and follows listing the international period/window in which tries were scored. I have checked and this is the structure for Welsh, English, Irish, French, Italian, Boks, Aussie and All Black players. Multiple different people have contributed in the same way across the world. When everybody is in agreement, yet you enforce your way of doing things, you appear arrogant and out of touch. I don't find removing relevent information as constructive and I fear your stubborness is what is dragging this out. Even in instances of the word competition being removed, and the text no longer claiming they are in a competition, you still have a problem. Whether they're official competitions or simple test series, what is your issue in listing the period in which they were played?
- Hi Szceli, and thanks for your message. Please sign your messages with four tildes.
- I think everyone probably thinks their way of doing things is the best, or they wouldn't do things that way, no? In this case my way of doing things is consistent with Wikipedia policy and the normal use of English.
- I think these international tries tables are trivial and unnecessary. Why not international penalties, or red cards? More and more "facts" does not make a better encyclopedia.
- Second, I don't think we should have articles about non-events such as the "2014 Autumn internationals", because these are not a thing - they are not events or competitions, they are a bunch of unconnected games that happen at the same time. Making articles about them is a way for Wikipedia geeks to try to categorise everything. This does not help readers - Wikipedia is not for making stuff up.
- So in these tables, I don't think any column is needed for this. If it says "competitions", then it should be restricted to competitions.
- In one of your edit summaries, you wrote "these are periods of contest but you can instead interpret it as 'test series' in the same way that every other contributor has." You can interpret it as "test series" if you want, but these are not all series in the normal RU sense. "Periods of contest" is irrelevant and trivial, and making them up does not help readers. We don't know how every other contributor has interpreted these, and I don't really care. Smart contributors know it is wrong like this.
- You also wrote in one of your edit summaries that "This is standard across all listed rugby try stats- try viewing any other player's profile, Welsh or otherwise. The alternative of having empty boxes is nonsensical." But it's not standard across all rugby players' articles - numerous high scoring players do not have these tables - see Doug Howlett, Joe Rokocoko, John Kirwan, David Campese, Bryan Habana, for example - so having them for current players is an example of recentism and undue weight. Who cares what "competition" Alun Wyn Jones scored one of his nine tries in? This is important because Wikipedia is never going to be perfectly consistent. That does not mean that we shouldn't correct things when we see them - just because I can't fix every article, doesn't mean that I won't fix problems when I find them. Also, it isn't nonsensical at all to have blank cells here. If a try was not scored in a competition, then it is the correct way of showing it. Not everything happens in a competition.
- What do you think? // Hippo43 (talk) 23:59, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for taking the time, I really do appreciate your response. So our discussion remains on point I will attempt to address each point as to not risk unnecessary loops.
I understand your point about try tables. I get that the pages can function without them however for some it allows a fast and direct way of getting information on players and I believe it brings value for that reason. You don't have to agree, I respect your view. Further to your point, I believe there is value in adding points for high point scorers however I would hope sense would draw the line beyond this.
I'm struggling to understand your view that Autumn/Summer Internationals are in your words not a thing. These are protected international windows that occur each and every year. Whether they result in the presentation of a trophy or not, they're capped games and recorded by every union around the world. I'm not sure if you've tried getting the Autumn/Summer Internationals pages removed but I feel the site would be less informative if you were to succeed.
I agree that in many instances, these stats are limited to modern players. *please see edit* I would counter however with high scoring retired players such as Bryan Habana (who does in fact have a page dedicated to listing tries), Jonah Lomu, Shane Williams, Rory Underwood, and Brian O’Driscoll- to hit as many different nations as possible. I would add that these are lists that I have had no involvement in making. Granted, some entries simply say Test Match but they’re listed nonetheless. I agree that sometimes too much information can make for a difficult read- to your point, David Campese does not have a try list but does have almost every test appearance listed (which I would argue was excessive).
Perhaps I am a little obsessive and they idea of your changes impacting 5% of entries is something I need to get over. I just feel that as so many contributors have listed the same information over many years, your efforts will simply be reverted in due course. It is your right to correct issues as you see fit however. Thanks again for your patience and I appreciate your efforts to improve this site for everybody. Szceli (talk) 10:41, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- My apologies for the edit. Just so the point isn't missed;
"You also wrote in one of your edit summaries that "This is standard across all listed rugby try stats"... But it's not standard across all rugby players' articles". You'll note I said it's standard for listed try stats (to include reason for contest), not that each rugby player's article has one. I think your response diverts at this point. My following points however address both profilic former players having the tables and that said tables include test event information rather than being left blank.