Talk:Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening

summary

So ya, If you're going to summarize a poem it helps if you can actually speak English with some fluency. How did three people add edits without noticing that summary was gibberish.

copyright

can we publish this poem here?
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Martijn Hoekstra (talk • contribs) 15:11, 23 July 2006‎

yes, its in the public domain Martijn Hoekstra 15:35, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty clearly not in the public domain. Here's one site which uses the poem by permission and cites its copyright information. Here's another, a U.S. Department of State site, that cites the info. DeSales 04:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm fairly new to Wikipedia and not interested in risking a "revert war," but did the person who reversed my removal read my talk comment and the links? Where is the evidence that this is public domain? DeSales 22:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

AFAIK User:DeSales is right - 3 or 4 lines is probably fair use though... Tomandlu 00:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I looked it up before, and came to the conclusion it was in the public domain, I believe either because the author has been dead for a certain number of years, or because of the copyright had run out for some other reason. I'll try to look it up again, and get some sourced statements here. (By the way, the original question if it wasn't copyrighted was my own. I found that it was public domain soon after, and answered my own question) Martijn Hoekstra 17:22, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

No, it is not public domain. In most cases in the US, copyright expires 50 years after the death of the creator or artist, per Template:PD-old-50. That's 2013 in the case of Frost. The federal government has been busy extending the period that copyright holds so corporations can make more money (see Copyright#United States copyright law), but that thankfully doesn't apply to Frost. - BanyanTree 05:24, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Make it 2019. The poem was published in 1923 (unfortunately, only works published in 1922 or earlier are in the public domain) and the copyright was renewed in 1951. According to the copyright information in the sites cited above, the right rule to apply is: "1923 through 1963 - Published with notice and the copyright was renewed - 95 years after publication date." So it will enter the public domain in 1 January 2019 (according to note #3 there). -- Gabi S. (talk) 11:25, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Why does Eric Whitacre then think that the poem is copyrighted until 2038? Quote: “After a LONG legal battle (many letters, many representatives), the estate of Robert Frost and their publisher, Henry Holt Inc., sternly and formally forbid me from using the poem for publication or performance until the poem became public domain in 2038.” SyaWgnignahCehT (talk) 17:52, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

It’s PD tomorrow! — pythoncoder  (talk | contribs) 22:24, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

It's public domain in the USA now!97.71.138.2 (talk) 19:03, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

This is correct, therefore I've added the text of the poem and removed the comment warning advising against it. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 20:41, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

interpretation

It's possible that the repetition in the last two lines suggests that the narrator is drifting off to sleep, perhaps suggesting death by freezing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.66.137.182 (talk) 06:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

1. "And miles to go before I sleep" (twice). In school in 1962 (40 years after the poem was written and 39 years after publication), we were told that the poet was aware that he was dying from tuberculosis - and in those pre-internet days there was no way to discover that the poet was in fact still alive four decades later, a detail which made nonsense of this snippet of my education! 2. In the "Analysis" paragraph: "... the thoughts of a lone wagon driver (the narrator), ...". Very possibly, but I had always thought of him as a rider. Heraldica (talk) 19:41, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

the animal has harness bells, typical of a horse that pulls a wagon 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:C87B:4781:F6D0:8F42 (talk) 19:45, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

OR

Removed the following section, which was marked WP:OR since September. Cite sources if you want to reintroduce the whole or part of it in the article. Tizio 12:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The narrator, travelling at night by a horse-drawn vehicle on the winter solstice ("The darkest evening of the year"). He stops to watch the snow fall in the woods, yet remembers his obligations and, it is assumed, continues home after the end of the poem.

One interpretation of the first line ("whose woods these are I think I know") refers to the woods belonging to God. The next lines ("His house is in the village though/ he will not see me stopping here/ to watch his woods fill up with snow") show his attitudes towards God as an adult, as a callous figure who isn't actually watching.

The second stanza begins with ("My little horse must think it queer/ to stop without a farmhouse near") The horse understands that this isn't the final destination, that they have to press on, even if the narrator has momentarily forgotten in the tranquility. The horse is a symbol of conscience -("He gives his harness bells a shake/ to ask if there is some mistake") Here, the horse understands that if they stay there they will die from the cold, and is urging the narrator to continue.

The narrator refers to the woods with peaceful, tranquil, and restful words. ("The woods are lovely, dark, and deep") He obviously understands the danger of just staying, but is drawn to the beauty. To continue on with life is so difficult, and the woods so peaceful and restful. It is often believed he sees the woods as a final resting place, and may be considering suicide.

However, the poem ends on a different note: ("But, I have promises to keep/ And miles to go before I sleep,/ And miles to go before I sleep")

The narrator is reminded of his obligations, not only to others in his life but to himself as well. And he's reminded that he has a long way to go, not only in his journey home, but because of the emphasis on this line, it's thought this refers to his life as a whole. Basically, he has a long way to travel still before he can die.

this poem has many interpretations, and placing just one on the wiki (especially this one, which i strongly disagree with) promotes a skewed perspective. however, it would be interesting to include multiple interpretations (i.e. beauty is portrayed as a human value rather than having inherent value; the contrast between the horse's view of the situation and frost's own).just a thought. - the seth

I agree with both. An explanation of some undisputed facts is one thing, but that is strongly analytic and definitely not appropriate. 68.39.174.238 23:13, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Right. Tha main guideline here is WP:NOR: if there there is an interpretation by someone else, and is published somewhere, we may report that with an appropriate citation. An interpretation without a citation that tells who proposed it is inappropriate. Tizio 14:50, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Strongly disagree? The "absent God" interpretation perhaps (I don't mind it) but the rest is pretty pedestrian and unobjectionable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:C87B:4781:F6D0:8F42 (talk) 19:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

References

What, no mention of the Charles Bronson movie "Telefon" from 1977? Kar98 15:44, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

FYI: I am from Indonesia. Almost no one knows this poem here. Nevertheless, the last two lines of this poem have been stuck in my head for more than 40 years because of Charles Bronson's Telefon movie. 118.137.158.46 (talk) 23:14, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). Martijn Hoekstra 20:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

{{itaintbrokensodontfixit}}. Really, is that mention really that necessary? Tizio 23:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

And that's why Wikipedia blows chunks. Neither of you offered any actual argument, just the same ol' same ol' templates. In fact you're probably bots anyway and I'm wasting my time answering you two clowns. Kar98 17:21, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Tizio 20:18, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Pop-cult beats everything else!

The current character count is:

encyclopedic part: 985
popular culture section: 1496

This is really weird. Do we really need to mention the 132th episode of the "Unknown to everybody" tv series where two words possibly from the poem are partly seen written on a wall for 1.2 seconds? Tizio 16:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting stats. I never quite thought about it this way. However I have to point out a few mitigating factors for this phenomenon. First the absence of the poem itself. Due, as you know, to copyright problems we can't include it. If you add the characters of the poem to 985 already counted it will tip the balance in favour of the encyclopaedic content. Second in the absence of the poem verses no meaningful analysis of the verses can take place. If you add the (hypothetical) verse analysis to the encyclopaedic content the balance will become even healthier. Conclusion: It's not the pop culture section that is overgrown, it is the encyclopaedic content that is atrophied due to copyright stranglehold. BTW I checked the trivia section and didn't see the 132nd episode of "Unknown to everybody" tv series. Interesting name for a series ;-). Dr.K. (talk) 18:58, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, Dr.K. Currently, there are seventeen popular culture references listed. This number, in my opinion, should never really get any higher than two or three (and of course they should be sprinkled into the article, but unfortunately this article isn't long enough to do that). I say we keep the most well-respected, most well-known references and delete the rest. Suggestions for those to keep are The Sopranos and The Simpsons. The two shows refer to the poem specifically and do not leave it vague (while "whose woods are these" from The Wonder Years and "whose woods these are" from Mutantx are probably derived from this poem, it could be just a coincidence). Three other possible candidates include the Sydney Pollack movie, the Stephen King movie, and the Dean Koontz book. While people may not have seen these movies or television shows or read these books, they probably have heard of the directors or titles or authors.JDCAce (talk) 17:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

removed "the" from the incorrectly titled poem ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.115.97.112 (talk) 01:50, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Citations Needed, Really?

Yes, articles should be referenced, but someone has gotten a little obnoxious with the 'fact' tags here. We really need a citation establishing that "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" is a *poem*?69.2.87.205 (talk) 21:40, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Tags culled. I think one per paragraph makes the point well enough. Mcewan (talk) 20:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Popular Culture

FYI:

User:Seraphimblade removed the entire popular culture section. I didn't think that was called for and have reverted that edit. I've provided refs for a couple of the more notable entires in that section. The others were:

• The poem was featured in the 1977 Charles Bronson film Telefon, the 1983 Indian Hindi language feature film Jaane Bhi Do Yaaron, the TV show Roswell on episode 17 of season 2, the TV show The Sopranos on episode 2 of season 3, the TV show Dexter on episode 2 of season 4, Quentin Tarantino's "Death Proof" segment of the 2007 film Grindhouse, and in the 2003 film adaptation of Stephen King's novel, Dreamcatcher (film), directed by Lawrence Kasdan. The poem is also featured in the education program Family Album USA
• The poem was used in the third verse of the parody of "Empire State of Mind" by Jay-Z, called "Granite State of Mind" by Super Secret Project.
• "The woods are lovely, dark and deep machi" - Surya utters this poem to his friend in the movie Vaaranam Aayiram.
• A supporter for the 2010 campaign for Texas State Representative Borris Miles used the poem which was directed at his opponent, Al Edwards, with some of the words substituted (Frost's 'I' was replaced by Al Edwards' name inserted in the final verse which reads 'And Miles to go before Al Edwards goes to sleep').
• The last two lines of the poem ("And Miles to go before I sleep... And Miles to go before I sleep...") are featured in the song "Miles" by American rock band Sponge which is included in their 1994 album Rotting Piñata.

I have no idea how notable they are/were, so I've removed them from the article. If you feel that they should be included, please go ahead and put them back in but make sure to include a reference that at least provides some indication as to how it was notable. Matt Deres (talk) 14:47, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Need Explanation (Non-native Speaker)

I couldn't get the exact meaning of the line: Of easy wind and downy flake. Can somebody explain it in plain English? I understand that there is the sound of wind. But what about the downy flake? They couldn't make any sound, could they? Does easy wind sweep downy flakes? Do I get it right? Thanks for the answer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sinanipek (talk • contribs) 22:55, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

The downy flakes are the flakes of snow being blown about on the wind. They do make sound, though it's very quiet. Matt Deres (talk) 03:16, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

"Downy" means like the falling of down feathers, the light inner feathers of birds. There is a brand of laundry powder called Downy to evoke the same reaction. The "sweep" is like the light sound of a broom sweeping a floor. There is a very detailed analysis of the poem (focusing on that stanza) in an old paper of Haj Ross,

Hologramming in a Robert Frost poem: the still point. Linguistics in the Morning Calm, ed. the Linguistic Society of Korea, 685-691. Seoul : Hanshin Publishing Company. (SICOL 1981)

It would be worthwhile to get hold of the paper and use it to expand the article. See also this starting at p. 12. 69.111.194.167 (talk) 10:55, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Solar noon and "darkest evening of the year"

A caveat on the notion that Frost was invoking the Winter Solstice when he wrote "The darkest evening of the year."

At wikipedia Sunset, you will read this: "the earliest sunset does not occur on the winter solstice, but rather about two weeks earlier", around 6 December in the North America, rather than 21 December. A surprising phenomena, yet perfectly observable. Use your wristwatch to check the time of sunset in your area, and you'll see it's true. It's related to solar Noon.

To be precise, the "darkest evening" occurs in early December in Vermont. My guess is that Frost was aware of this - only a guess. Any clues? Ol'Campy (talk) 19:25, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I doubt he was being that precise. Anyway, the darkest and longest evenings aren't the same thing. The darkest evening would have to be overcast and have a new moon. 2601:648:8200:990:0:0:0:491C (talk) 09:52, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Passing mentions

Please do not add the poem as mentioned in passing in media such as TV programmes, video games etc. 'Passing mentions' do not fly. Please read WP:IPC. Span (talk) 18:01, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

References missing??

Hey, what's wrong with the reference template. I can't add one. BenisonPBaby 14:22, 29 July 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BenisonPBaby (talk • contribs)

BenisonPBaby, you haven't edited the article. If you can show the edit you're trying to make here, someone can probably help you troubleshoot. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 21:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Seraphimblade This was me 10 years ago, lol. I guess it's fixed now. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 10:59, 15 February 2024 (UTC)