Talk:Greek Orthodox Church

Roman orthodox

The term "greek orthodox" is not as in-use as this article leads people to believe, why was my edit reverted? Akhshartag (talk) 21:28, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

what is Roman Orthodox? 174.101.111.113 (talk) 00:40, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 2 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. Also OP has been blocked as a sockpuppet.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

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Greek Orthodox Church → Greek Orthodoxy – The article about the Greek Orthodox Church lacks clarity, primarily due to its name. It's important to note that Greek Orthodoxy isn't a singular church entity. This term stems from the organizational structure of Orthodoxy, which consists of several independent churches. While some of these churches, though not all, share commonalities like using the Greek language and adhering to various traditions that distinguish them from other Orthodox traditions such as Russian, Bulgarian, or Serbian Orthodoxy. These distinctions can be observed in aspects like attire, liturgy, hierarchy, and more. For instance, articles on items like the klobuk, mandya, or metropolitan bishop regularly highlight differences between Greek, Russian, and/or Slavic traditions.

Greek Orthodoxy can refer to either this shared tradition or the collective group of these churches. It's essential to recognize that Greek Orthodoxy predates the modern independent country of Greece or the national Church of Greece, which emerged in the 1830s as a result of Greek independence. The national Church of Greece is actually a small component of Greek Orthodoxy. Kpratter (talk) 10:14, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support. This article isn't about an "orthodox church", but a tradition within Orthodoxy. Srnec (talk) 20:32, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Support per nominator. Killuminator (talk) 20:39, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is the WP:COMMONNAME. I understand the point of the nomination, but as the article is written the current title is the best. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:27, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. Editing would be needed in the body to fit new proposed title. If middle ground, I would make the title plural: Greek Orthodox Churches, yet this would be a different matter.--Coquidragon (talk) 16:20, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Distinction from Roman Orthodox Churches

There are a number of formerly Greek Orthodox Churches, which went back into communion with the Roman Catholic Church, of which Eastern Orthodoxy had split off since the Great Schism. These Churches, sometimes called "united with Rome", have retained most of their Greek Orthodox rituals. I don't know, but I guess there must be some who use Greek as their liturgical language. Having this in mind, does anyone know if all of the Orthodox Churches "united with Rome" are excluded from the umbrella category "Greek Orthodox Church", with all its 3 definitions? If so, this should be added to the lead, as it is a major criterion of distinction from Latin (Roman Catholic) Christianity subordinate to the Pope in Rome. Thanks, Arminden (talk) 17:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

@Arminden: Despite your comment being a bit biased ("Greek Orthodox Churches, which went back into communion with the Roman Catholic Church, of which Eastern Orthodoxy had split off since the Great Schism"), I would assume the answer to your question would be that Greek Catholic Churches (self-procraimed Greek Orthodox Churches in union with Rome) could fall under the second category: "any of several independent churches within the worldwide communion of (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity that retain the use of the Greek language in formal ecclesiastical settings," thinking of them more as "Unrecognised churches" / "Churches that are neither recognised nor fully Eastern Orthodox." Now, a follow up point would be if these Churches should be listed in Organization of the Eastern Orthodox Church#Unrecognised churches. Since Wikipedia is all about sourcing, you would need to find a credible source that lists them as such. Without it, I would defer to the editors of these pages. Good question though, despite not being WP:POV.--Coquidragon (talk) 17:21, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 6 May 2024

Greek Orthodox Church → Greek Orthodox Church (term) – There is a tag and lede content on the page indicating it is about a term, just as with Roman Catholic (term) and Catholic (term). There's also already a disambiguation page with the same title as this article, which makes things confusing. I made the move earlier but it was reverted. I felt it met the three criteria for an undiscussed move. natemup (talk) 00:15, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. The article can be considered a "broad-concept article" as described at WP:DABCONCEPT. It should be kept as is. The dab page can also be helpful to readers of Wikipedia, so it can also stand as is. The Banner talk 07:36, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

  No one proposed deleting or even changing the disambiguation. Moreover, none of the pages described in the help article you cited are about terms. They are about concepts (hence the non-italic titles and no references to being terms). This page has a tag and content indicating it is about a term, to distinguish it from the other pages with similar names. That should be reflected in the title. natemup (talk) 09:01, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

  There were two prior move-discussions related to this article. The first (Talk:Greek Orthodox Church#Requested move 2 October 2023) ended in no consensus. The second (Talk:Greek Orthodox Church (disambiguation)#Requested move 20 January 2023) ended with the result not to move. The Banner talk 00:56, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose as unnecessary. Srnec (talk) 01:10, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. I also oppose treating it as a mere "term" in italics. Internal administrative divisions notwithstanding, there has been a distinctly Greek ecclesiastical tradition within the Orthodox communion for centuries, and there needs to be an article to reflect that. ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣ (talk) 11:05, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

  I completely agree, but this article currently is explicitly about a term (and the proposal to make it about something else failed). The title should reflect that. natemup (talk) 16:30, 6 May 2024 (UTC)