Talk:Cremation/Archive 1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1

Environment and Indian Belief

There were four unreferenced paragraphs in the environment section, which refer entirely to traditional Indian beliefs. These were generally poorly written and not at all sourced. I moved them down to the section on religion, under Indian section, although it needs rewriting at least. Wiredrabbit (talk) 08:46, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

04 Indian Ocean Tsunami

.. A brief summary of the Tsunami is given here as pretext to something dealing with cremation.. unfortunately, the content (at once, said around 300,000 death toll but the actual reported was around 175,000) cannot be expected to always reflect what is stated in the Tsunami article. As such, either non-specific references ("Due to the large death toll..") should replace the current text or the issue of cremation should be discussed in the Tsunami article itself with "See Also:" links placed in the cremation article.

Thanks so much.. Drumguy8800 06:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Linked Hebrew article

Can someone please confirm that this is an article about cremation? The English interwiki link there links to Furnace (and vice versa), but the photo apparently comes from the Commons, and does show a crematorium. Kelisi 00:12, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


GUADALAJARA..........Toledo es 100% AMERICA TOLEDO SE LA LONCHA

Matriarchal vs. patriarchal religions

I think this section is not very clear. There is no explanation of what these religions are and the links just lead to 'matriarchy'/'patriarchy'. Also the example of the pagan religion favouring cremation actually contradicts the point that matriarchal religions supposedly favour inhumation. Anyway, so I'm going to remove it to here. Perhaps it can be improved.

Religious reasons in Pagan faiths

Cremation is the usual means of burial in Patriarchal religions, the rising smoke symbolizing the deceased's spirit ascending to the domain of the Father deities in the heavens. Conversely, Matriarchal religions have favoured interment of the corpse, often in a fetal position, representing the return of the body to Mother Earth in the tomb which represents the uterus. Of modern Neo-Pagan religions, Ásatrú favours cremation. 131.111.8.98 12:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect Usage

"Cremation is the usual means of burial in Patriarchal religions" - Cremation is not burial, minor error, should be fixed Bmaganti 03:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

temperature discrepancy

Here it says that the temperature of the funace needs to reach 1600-1800 fahrenheit, yet here it states that the body is burned at 1400 to 2100 °F.

Explanation, anyone? Daniel tzvi 22:27, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

-- Yeah I saw this, obviously two different authors not checking their facts. What is more worrying is that the article has a picture of the undertaker removing all jewelry, but a bit further down it says that no jewelry is removed. Do we conclude that the smoking guy in the pictures is a thief then?? And for christ's sake, he has a cig. in his mouth at every stage, so I assume that the bone crusher machine, while containing the deceased's bone ashes, will also contain a few sprinkles of Mr. undertakers Marlboro as well?? This article is a bit of a mish mash at the moment. 11/6/06


The time mentioned for cremation - 2 hours ( and one per retort ) - should be of concern. The literature on the Holocaust insists that several bodies were burned using old technology and in minutes not hours. I would delete, scrap, etc these sections or you guys are in for real trouble - someone who is better read on their own sugject will scream soon. Right about now......

Punishment

What about enemies being punished by cremating their corpses and scattering the ashes so that the burial place does not become a pilgrimage site? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.20.17.84 (talk) 16:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

Add it. There's a definite feeling about that in history. It was explicitly the reason the 11 Nuremburg executed defendants were cremated and secretely scattered. And it's been going on for years. For example, they posthumously dug up and cremated John Wycliff, for heresy. SBHarris 18:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Ways of keeping or disposing of the cremated remains

My guess is that Keith Richard's novel disposal method is best left omitted. It might be worth noting that the Cremation Act 1930 (UK) does not preclude this (or any method) of disposal. - Tiswas(t/c) 22:52, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Mmm? Keith Richard isn't mentioned anywhere in the article, and (to my knowledge) has never been. Lewis Collard 20:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Keith Richard recently claimed that he snorted his father's ashes (http://news.google.com/news?num=100&q=keith+richards+ashes) - I was reading this article at around the same time, hence the connection. I was merely pointing preempting any inclusion of event in the article. - Tiswas(t/c) 21:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Ah, mmkay. :) Lewis Collard 16:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

Needs a tad more pix if u ask me... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.125.35.40 (talk) 23:39, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

History section a mess

There are lots of uncited and really problematic areas in the history section. It is near eastern/eurupoean centric. there are many omissions. It belongs much lower in the article as well.

There is so much legitimate work in paleontology and archeology on the history of cremation, icluduing of course notes on its existence going back tens of thousands of years.

Even the ancient European practice strangely empathizes marginal postulations on sacrifice when in fact this is a well known military honor. Walker42 01:30, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Suttee

Should there be some mention of suttee in this article? Maybe under "Negative recent history experiences with cremation"? -R. fiend 23:32, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Sure. Not to be confused with sauté. SBHarris 04:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Boxing day Tsunami

This section is somewhat unclear. It seems to imply this happened everywhere affected. This seems unlikely since 1) Not everywhere had a large number of tourists affected 2) Not everywhere had a large number of people affected (e.g. according to the article on the Tsunami only four places had deaths in the thousands, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India and Thailand) 3) For cultural and other reasons I don't believe mass cremations were used everywhere (a quick search finds no evidence they were used in Aceh for example which isn't surprising considering it's predominantly Muslim and conservative at that). It sounds to be like this is predominantly referring to Thailand (Phuket in particular) Nil Einne (talk) 20:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Temperatures

There are two different temperature ranges sstated in the article- should one take an average to know the true range?Guille 00:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


According to the article in the Medicolegal Investigation of Death, "Cremation is by open flame or oven heating (calcination) at temperatures between 1600F and 2200F." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.135.10.16 (talk) 22:00, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

California

I'm removing the uncited section on California. It's been legal to scatter there for over nine years,(see [1] and many, many hits on a quick google) and the story is no longer particularly notable. Neither was the law ever enforced, although it could complicate carrying out wishes, e.g. if a lawyer was executor. NTK (talk) 21:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Pictures of cremation

Anyone else here notice that the guy doing the cremation was smoking while performing the cremation?
JesseG 05:01, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Yep, he's even got the smoke in his mouth while inspecting the body. Disgracful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.219.255.133 (talk) 07:49, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


  • Is there anyway to find a more professional-looking picture of the guy sweeping the CR'S into the processor? He's smoking a cigarette, and wearing a T shirt. I'm sure each company has their standards, but ours, and every other company I've seen require uniforms (as well, who'd want dust +ect on their personal clothing?) and smoking is while processing is just rude, and unprofessional. (where's his dust mask?) As an employee at a crematorium, I Hate having to stand in that cloud of dust that blows up during this stage, let alone having to breathe it through my mask

(often called cremains)

Surely not! That sounds more like a snack food like craisins! DavidFarmbrough (talk) 14:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Nazi extermination

Re the recent addition, all the detail about Nazi extermination during WWII, beyond perhaps a simple mention and how it worked against Jewish religious belief, seems a little off-topic for cremation. --Gary D 06:37, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

Hi Gary: I STRONGLY disagree with you as it goes to the very HEART of the issue of cremation as perpetrated by the Nazis and why cremation is such a major sore point vis-a-vis Jewish people as the most significant victims of the Holocaust in which cremation was such a big part as the bodies were flung into the ovens of the extermination camps by the millions, one of the 20th century's greatest stains on humankind. IZAK 06:53, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, IZAK. Let me take a more inclusive position than what my dashed-off comment above may suggest. I think the essence of your information is indeed on-point even in a technical article about cremation, such as how it was used during the Holocaust, how it went against Jewish religious belief, and how it developed a sore point with the Jews as a result. I think on the other hand that material such as, "one of the twentieth century's greatest stains on humankind" would be more in context in articles on Nazism, the Holocaust, Judaism, human rights, and the like. What I'm suggesting is a slimming down here to the cremation-related essentials, but not the elimination, of the Holocaust reference, because the context of the article is more narrowly on cremation per se.

Just a thought, maybe the text of this section should be changed; for example, "This is because the soul of recently dead person is not fully aware that they died, and they experience seeing their body burnt (this is also one of the reasons autopsies are forbidden under normal circumstances)." gives the impression that a soul actually exists, and that the beliefs of Jews are correct and right. Maybe you should add "supposedly", "allegedly", etc, to separate fantasy from reality. 76.235.160.197 (talk) 00:15, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Other reason for requesting cremation

My mother requested cremation because of the fact that graves often go unvisited (my grandfather and uncle, to name two in our family). Also, I recently read an article in Jane magazine where a mortician was asked by a Jane staffer what she preferred when she died, and the mortician stated the exact same reason. That "gravesites often are forgotten about" and that she'd rather be cremated. 66.92.255.54 20:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)Leigh

I have a major issue with the images on this page. The images used in your cremation article show a man smoking in a football t-shirt, while his tattoo is showing. This gives a false sense of what cremation is about, and takes away dignity. You can see a full astray when the human ashes are being put in the 'box'. There are so many examples, and pictures on the internet. Please take there down, and choose a new set. It's very upsetting that you would put these online in the first place!

Some people get upset by reality. Not our problem. Perhaps you have some mental picture that most crematoria feature operators standing around the retort in full mourning funerial attire, making long sad professional faces and never ever smoking or eating or doing anything ordinary, or human. Lose it. That's not what you're paying for, and that's not what generally happens. The brains boil, the skull often pops, and later the bones get ground up in the cremora, and in general what happens in this process is industrial enough that whether or not some operator is smoking a cig or has a tattoo, is the least of psychological issues. I admit there's a certain amount of black irony in this guy getting his cigarette ashes in the cremains (I actually used this pic as an illustration in the irony article); but for the long run, it really doesn't matter, does it? I mean, your cremains are merely the 3 or 4% of the atoms that happened to be in your body at the end of your life, and which didn't vaporize. There's nothing special about them-- if you're an adult, they've all been replaced several times, at least, and many of them dozens of times, by other calcium or phosphorus or oxygen atoms, while you were alive. The atoms are not the issue-- their arrangement is (or was) the issue. Whose tattoo is showing or what people are wearing when they get rid of a dead body is so far outside the central issue, that my mind boggles that it bothers you.

Today's newsflash is that there isn't ultimately much that is pretty about any of the possible options for getting rid of a dead human body. That fact that people pretend this isn't true by dressing up and then hiding it all, and trying like crazy not to ever look again, does not change the basic facts. Which are dust to dust unless you have a lot of liquid nitrogen. And even then it's not pretty. SBHarris 02:51, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

  • I have personally witnessed two cremations. NONE of it is "pretty" to watch. Any attempt to "beautify" the process here would be a fruitless effort. T.E. Goodwin 00:31, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Reasons for Cremation has the note: "and in London, a space crisis led Harriet Harman to propose re-opening old graves for "double-decker" burials." In the UK it is normal and legal for up to 3 bodies to be placed in a single plot at 9, 6 and three feet deep. It is also not unusual for interrements over a certain age to be moved to another are and the grave re-used (excpet where a family has explicitly paid for a plot). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.33.116.240 (talk) 13:43, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Environmental impact

Removed elements stating embalming causes mercury and arsenic contamination as neither has been (often by law) used in embalming for nearly a century in most places —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.173.146.251 (talk) 00:58, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Eastern Orthodox and others

Please someone reformulate the Eastern Orthodox article because it sounds like Eastern Orthodox Churches are a Protestant Group. The article sounds like this: "On the other hand, some branches of Christianity oppose cremation, including some minority Protestant groups.Most notably, the Eastern Orthodox Churches forbid cremation." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tinel (talk • contribs) 13:12, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Privacy

I suppose pictures showing the pre-processing and post-processing of the cremation process are needed to provide more graphic detail to the textual description. However, did the photographer obtain the consent of the deceased's family to show the bone fragments? Somehow I sense a gross violation of privacy although for all practical purposes the bone fragments are anonymous enough to prevent us from identifying the deceased.Allentchang (talk) 16:58, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I think you've answered your own question. There's nothing so anonymous as cremains. SBHarris 21:01, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Muslims

Right now, the article states, "Islam forbids cremation and Muslims are buried after death." While it is clear that the primary meaning of this sentence is that (dead) Muslims are buried rather than cremated, a possible secondary meaning could be that Muslims are buried after death rather than buried alive.

I think this sentence is best reworded to avoid this possible inference. Is the second half of the sentence redundant - ie, when cremation is excluded, isn't burial the only option? Could we just say, "Islam forbids cremation"? I'll leave this to someone else to change, I think.... -Bernard S. Jansen (talk) 02:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually burial is not the only option, and there exist Muslim mausoleums. Including probably the most famous still-standing one, the Taj Mahal. SBHarris 23:20, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Religions prohibiting Cremation

The Presbyterian Church USA does not prohibit cremation. In fact, the following article from the PC(USA) describes how it is prefered by most members: http://www.pcusa.org/pcnews/2004/04201.htm

How can cremation be both forbidden in Zoroastrianism and at the same time becoming more popular among Zoroastrians? That seems contradictory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JRThro (talk • contribs) 18:33, 27 March 2008 (UTC) For those of you whose loved ones were cremated including mine I was looking on the web about information on cremation and unfortunately there is one site I found that is definitely against cremation even calling it a heathen practice [2]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhe2008 (talk • contribs) 11:46, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I know it's been a while, but I just wanted to respond to the question... Many cultures and belief systems prohibit different things, but just because a body prohibits something does not mean that people won't go for the idea regardless. Case in point: Some places forbid abortion, but abortions are practiced regardless. So while Zoroastrianism may forbid cremation, the people may actually favor it despite what the organized body says. It is entirely possible, probably, and in this case, quite correct. You are right that it does seem contradictory, but it is not. Kjnelan (talk) 18:34, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction

A final contradiction tag was found in this article in the Religious Views section with the following comment: Contradict|date=January 2009 In Christian countries and cultures, cremation has typically been discouraged, but not forbidden.... but then you talk about catholics and protestants allowing it. i think the "typically been discouraged" line makes no sense.

It appears that the line was fixed by someone, but the tag was never removed. Removing tag. Thanks so much for all the hard work on this article. Kjnelan (talk) 06:43, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Scattering by Air Advertisement

This is a commercial link by a California scattering company. As such, its placement is in violation of Wikipedia's policy regarding advertising in Wikipedia. It should be deleted. T.E. Goodwin (talk) 01:05, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

number of bodies

I know that it has said that US law forbids more than one body to be cremated at one time, but I have been led to hear otherwise. Also, how would they clean the crematory well enough to ensure that all of the ashes were gone before another body would be put in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.158.2.23 (talk) 19:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Ordinarily, a heat-resistant metal identification disk is placed in the retort with each body cremated. Also, special metal rakes (with metallic bristles) are employed to sweep the bottom of the retort clean after each cremation. There is always a miniscule amount of residue that cannot be removed and this residue is commingled with the next cremation. This information comes from the CANA website. T.E. Goodwin (talk) 17:46, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
    • In countries other than the US, any heat resistant material, with clear identification marks can be used. Also the ashes are usually pulverised. So there is always some mingling of ashes. In some cases the mingling of ashes is desired. It is not uncommon for husband and wives to have their ashes mixed. It has been suggested that there are instances that even the ashes of the family pet were mixed in. JHvW (talk) 00:37, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Body container

Much error and incomplete information in this section. I am a Christian minister taking many funerals in the UK. Not all crematoria run their cremators every day. I'm not aware of regulations saying they must. Ashes are often returned to the family but can be scattered in the crematorium grounds if facilities exist, buried elsewhere or taken home. The choice is up to the next of kin. As to process, metal fragments often remain following the first process and in my experience they are most often removed by hand using a range of sieves. Jewelry can be placed in a coffin but glass is discouraged as it melts then fuses around partially cremated bone creating a glass/bone lump that is difficult to deal with. It is true that caskets are never opened routinely but I'm sure it has happened. My point here is that local practice varies tremendously so all of these 'facts' may not hold elsewhere. Given this perhaps they should not be quoted at all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gw russell (talk • contribs) 18:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree and have added the Overcoverage template to the top of the page. I would encourage you to incorporate your knowledge into the article, supported by sources wherever possible of course. Another disinterested reader (talk) 16:39, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


Correct Nomenclature

A cremation furnace is NOT a crematory. A crematory is the name for the building in which the crematorium is located. The crematorium is that part of the building where cremations are carried out. T.E. Goodwin 23:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

At my place of work we refer to the building as the crematorium, which contains the offices, chapel etc etc. The area which houses the cremators, furnaces, retorts or what ever you want to call them is generally called the crematory. Bernie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.224.121.194 (talk) 13:47, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Crembola?

Would anyone please help me find a source for the term "crembola"? I've been hunting down sources for this article and I think the term "crembola" is way too cute (in a sick way) to remove. :)

Also, if anyone else would like to help me out with the great source-finding endeavour, I'd appreciate some help. Lewis Collard 21:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

  • I believe a crembola is the same thing as a cremulator (although I do not think the term is used very often). This answer may be a little late. What sort of help do you need? JHvW (talk) 08:06, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

It depends what the manufacturer calls it. Bernie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.224.121.194 (talk) 13:49, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Football shirt guy, redux

I think some of the displayed images are too offensive. I don't think they should be removed at all, because it gives a higher value to the article, but perhaps a warning for certain viewers would be at its place? Are there any types of premade warnings for like people under 16 or parental control or whatsoever? --Hans 07:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

  • I agree that the images are stark in their realism. But, they are needed, in my opinion, to demonstrate the procedures involved in the process. T.E. Goodwin 00:17, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
  • As an employee at a crematorium, is there anyway to find a more professional-looking picture of the guy sweeping the CR'S into the processor? He's smoking a cigarette, and wearing a T shirt. I'm sure each company has their standards, but ours, and every other company I've seen require uniforms (as well, who'd want dust +ect on their personal clothing?) and smoking is just while processing is just rude and unprofessional. - random reader.
Quit being such a wuss. ;P Lewis Collard! (baby i'm bad news) 03:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
And some further thoughts: who'd want to be burnt up by a guy in uniform? How on earth is that more respectful? It seems rather impersonal and cold to me. Were I one sensitive to how my body will be disposed of, I think the guy in the football shirt with the cigarette...well, that's a little bit more personal and friendly. I'd like to think things would be done that way.
So no, the photos stay. Lewis Collard! (baby i'm bad news) 03:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

If I wore that at work I'd be shot. I wear a suit and tie while working, it gives an air of professionalism and also shows a bit of respect for the dead. And I'm in Britain so we're not allowed to smoke in our workplace. Bernie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.224.121.194 (talk) 14:05, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Composition of cremains

The material can not both be largely phosphates and largely carbon. Both are cited. OldZeb (talk) 18:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

The article is incorrect that no ashes remain in addition to bone. The laws of chemistry demand that some ash is formed from soft tissues. Small amounts of Na, P, K, Ca, in the flesh itself. etc. Either the ash is very fine and goes out a chimney, or it accumulates in the furnace. Perhaps it is discarded without fanfare as so fine it is a respiratory hazard. Someone in the funeral business should explain & correct this.

Mydogtrouble (talk) 16:46, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

There can be a lot of fine 'fly ash', as it's known, at the end of a cremation. All this and the remnants of the bone are removed from the cremator and processed and returned to the family. Any fine ash that has been pulled through the cremator into the flue ways is periodically cleaned out and treated as if it was human remains. It is processed and scattered in the crematorium grounds. The reason being that some of it may be human remains. Bernie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.224.121.194 (talk) 14:14, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Other cremation notes

Some more exotic cremation post-wishes have included being launched/scattered into space.

Also, one prolific comic book writer/artist (I'm not sure which) requested his ashes be mixed with the ink for the comic he was known for.

Ryan 02.26.05

You have missed memorial fireworks (containing the cremated remains). Recovery of carbon from the remains to make lab grown diamonds. Being mixed with concrete building foundations. Also I have heard of one gentleman who ran a clay pigeon shoot who stated in his will that he was to be cremated and the remains to be put into shotgun cartridges and used for a 'memorial shoot'. I could go on but you'd be surprised what people do with the remains. Like losing them on the London tube, and they were reunited with the widow after several years thanks to the bbc doing a show about the tubes lost property office. Bernie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.224.121.194 (talk) 14:32, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

internal controls in retort

i've just read 16 CFR 453 and it doesn't say anything about the design of crematory retorts, nor does the manufacturer's brochure I also read (matthew's cremation Ener-tek IV - a top of the range model)mention any internal controls. Is the writer, sure about this, or is this a spoof? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.30.126 (talk) 09:09, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Question about energy

I read all the article however, besides the mention of energy savings in modern equipment, I can't find a single value of the necessary energy to burn a body. An example could be done of the energy needed to cremate a body of an average weight of 60 kg for instance, nevertheless, a table indicating the correspondence between weight and energy of cremation would be more useful. Would not it be interesting to go further on that matter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.146.140.2 (talk) 09:21, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

List of cremated people?

The article currently has a 'list of cremated people', it's certainly not complete (six people?), I doubt it's of any real use either. Any objections to deletion? TheOverflow (talk) 07:16, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Dead animal bodies including human ones?

The first sentence includes this statement, which is unacceptable from my point of view. If the author sees themself as an animal, it should not be a term used for all humans. Humans are not animals. Therefore I suggest that this line should be changed to "dead animal and human bodies". Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.189.135.186 (talk) 08:54, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Germany, scattering of ashes

To my knowledge ashes can not be scattered by the relatives or anyone else for that matter. Neither can relatives retain or even receive the urn. It appears there is a huge financial interest on the part of the churches and state cemetaries to keep things this way, because they earn a lot just holding the remains in a tiny plot. To my knowledge there is no hygiene or any other reason why people should not be allowed to retain their loved ones remains. 217.7.120.226 (talk) 04:48, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

US Cremation Law

I was just watching an episode of Six Feet Under and a plot point involved the fact that it is US law that a body must be cremated in the casket sold to those paying for the service. I imagine this relates to mentions of rental caskets in the article. If such a law does indeed exist it is probably worth including in the article. --bodnotbod 03:12, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

You'd think this would be the subject of 50 state laws and not of a Federal law. But it is very similar to the Federal "Funeral Rule" 16 CFR Part 453 which is enforced by the Federal Trade Commission (provisions explained here). It prevents funeral directors from falsely claiming that a casket is required for cremation, and requires them to provide an "alternate container". But as I recall 6FU the issue was re-use of a casket (that is, selling a casket twice) -- I'm not sure if that would be covered under the Funeral Rule or under state fraud statutes. - Nunh-huh 03:46, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Though the question is old, it bears further information. As the article mentions, a casket can be rented for the viewing and funeral service, the remains are then placed into a container for cremation. My father made such arraignments for his own service after paying for my mother's service some years ago.Wzrd1 (talk) 22:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Unencyclopedic picture

I am removing the picture File:Tarapith.JPG from the section "Hinduism and other Indian origin religions" (permalink). Pictures in an encyclopedia are there to help readers better understand the text, to illustrate, in the cliche, what a thousand words cannot accomplish. This picture, however, is an illustration of desecration. It shows desecration of a small river's valley by egregious littering and desecration of the final rite of Hinduism by four men in various lounging poses, one of whom is smoking and the other peeing in the river. It doesn't help that there is no evidence of any funeral. I have to assume good faith and believe that the site had been used for cremations, but none had been conducted recently. In any case the picture doesn't belong here. I am moving it to Litter. Regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:33, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

History section

I added a paragraph to the modern era section because I feel it was important to know how and why cremation changed to become a more creative and personalized option. Unspoken words94 (talk) 19:39, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

The Modern Era

I Felt more detail should be in the article on how and why cremation came to the U.S. Unspoken words94 (talk) 19:33, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

An Edit

I included the percentage for cremation costs in the beginning because I had not seen any information on the costs in the United States. Unspoken words94 (talk) 19:31, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

I didn't realize that that many (20%) were choosing cremations! I do know it is not cheap, having lost a cat recently. So, it is definitely a great statistic to have. However, I believe that fact is WP:UNDUE in the lead. Cremation has had a long history in humanity. In many cultures it is religiously mandated, long a part of the folklore, literature, and arts ... In the US it is more of a recent phenomena (certainly not thousands of years old!). I believe it is best added to the relevant section (on modern history). Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:58, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
I believe the proportion is over 70% in the UK, by the way. I think we need to ensure a global perspective in the introduction, rather than giving undue emphasis to the US or any other one country. And, I'm not happy about the term "industry of death", which has an unencyclopedic tone even if, in this case, it's factually quite accurate. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:49, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
I completely agree with both of you. I changed the wording and moved it to the Rates section of the article. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Unspoken words94 (talk) 19:45, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Pet Cremation

I created a section on Pet cremation because it wasnt mentioned anywhere in the article and I believe it belongs and is important for people to know. I also uploaded a picture of companion animal urns to the section. Unspoken words94 (talk) 19:26, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I was reading this article and came across what appears to be an advertisement "hidden" within the history section. I have removed this in the belief that it is in violation of Wikipedia policies. The text of the advertisement can be found below. "Keller Urns is the most prominent online platform that provides top notch quality of cremation urns at highly economical prices. Choose the special discount cremation urns for the funeral purposes to remember someone while keeping their ashes in the precious urns. Keller Urn possesses the diverse assortment of cremation urns like Sunset Brass urn, military urns, marble urns, brass urns and so on." 70.176.23.242 (talk) 01:07, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. The vandalism had only been in place for about 12 hours, and also removed some other text, which I've now reinstated. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:17, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

first cremations "an influence from Anatolia"?

Under "History: Ancient", it states "Cremation appearing around the 12th century B.C. constitutes a new practice of burial and is probably an influence from Anatolia." I find this rather awkward and unsatisfactory. First, because it's nonsensical to say that a "new practice" of something was influenced by the same thing which already existed elsewhere. The question is, where was it first practiced? If it appeared somewhere other than in Anatolia after it appeared in Anatolia, then the first place it appeared was Anatolia and wherever it might've appeared next is irrelevant. Second, Anatolia is/was a place, but customs don't come from places, per se, they come from cultures. The dominant culture in Anatolia during the 12th century BCE was the tail-end of the Hittite Empire, going into the Syro-Hittite states with periods when the Sea Peoples were highly influential. So, which of these introduced cremation? One can't just say "it was from Anatolia" and leave it at that. Can someone please disambiguate? Occam's Shaver (talk) 19:51, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Introduction

To briefly explain the contents that can be found in the remainder of the article rather than simply defining cremation would dramatically improve the introduction, making it more of an introduction and less of a definition. For example, introducing the religious component of cremation that will be discussed later in the article. Additionally, eliminating the standalone sentence that reads, “In many countries, cremation is usually done in a crematorium. Some countries, such as India and Nepal, prefer different methods, such as open-air cremation.” This sentence could be more beneficial, perhaps in the Modern Cremation Process section, rather than the end of the introduction. Baileehall (talk) 20:58, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

"Large Crematoria" in World War II

There is no evidence of "large crematoria." What does "large crematoria" mean anyway? If you're going to make a statement like that, be more specific. Odobo (talk) 19:54, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I would consider Krematorium II and III in Auschwitz-Birkenau, each equipped with 5 Topf&Sons fornaces that had 3 muffles each (so 15 in each of these two crematoriums) with a documented capacity of disposing upto 1440 corpses a day, as "large crematoria". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8388:502:3D80:AC82:C466:B90C:A932 (talk) 17:04, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Cremation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:06, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Russian heatwave

A few years ago the Russian government did not have the capacity to cremate 500 people who died in a heatwave. How is this possible? After WW2 the Russians constructed the crematorium at Auschwitz (verified by the director of the museum there, decades ago) and therefore they had access to the German technology that would have allowed them to use ordinary bricks and mortar to cremate the 500 people in a few hours - If the official crematorium story is to be believed.

Modern crematoria require between one to five hours to cremate someone, at substantially higher temperatures than available to the Germans. In 1943, 463 tons of coal arrived at Auschwitz, enough to cremate 16 corpses per day. Where did the Germans store the 20-30,000 tons required to cremate a million people? What is its source? How was it transported? Kvestions, kvestions! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.129.96.97 (talk) 00:23, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka had crematoriums?

The article says:

"During World War II (1939–45) Nazi Germany used specially built furnaces in at least six extermination camps throughout occupied Poland including at Auschwitz-Birkenau, Chełmno, Belzec, Majdanek, Sobibor and Treblinka, where the bodies of those murdered by gassing were disposed of using incineration. The efficiency of industrialised killing of Operation Reinhard during the most deadly phase of the Holocaust produced too many corpses, therefore the crematoria manufactured to SS specifications were put into use in all of them to handle the disposals around the clock, day and night"

While we know Auschwitz-Birkenau and Majdanek had crematoriums, it is news to me that these other camps had crematoriums as well. I thought open air cremation was the way of body disposal here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8388:502:3D80:AC82:C466:B90C:A932 (talk) 17:06, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

1.129.96.97 (talk) Please provide the name of a single person who can be identified as having been gassed in a German ww2 camp, to the standard required by a court of law in a murder case. A poor woman has been offered a free meal in a restaurant of her choice for the remainder of her life if she can provide such an example. I understand she has sent 8oo letters to Jewish authorities without result. They mention millions but cannot cite any specific example - please help her. —Preceding undated comment added 00:28, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Question about temperatures

Should this article include information about the minimum temperature for proper (i.e. sanitary, etc) cremation? This would include more information on pyres -- whether they work.

Middle Ages?

In Christian countries, cremation fell out of favor due to the Christian belief in resurrection of the dead, but in the Middle Ages rationalists and classicists began to advocate it again. In England, for example, Sir Henry Thompson, Surgeon to Queen Victoria...

Last I checked, Queen Victoria wasn't anywhere near the Middle Ages — and the rest of the paragraph proceeds in similar fashion from the 19th to 20th centuries.

I didn't just fix it because I don't know enough about the subject to know whether "Middle Ages" is incorrect and it was actually the 19th century (or some other period), or whether "Middle Ages" is correct but examples need to be added about the time between 1517 and 1837. --TreyHarris 17:57, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think you are right. I'm not sure there was any discussion of cremation in Europe during the Middle Ages - at that time, only burning at the stake was popular, and even then it was generally seen as a punishment. In Britain the first post Christian cremation was by William Price in 1884, and he wasn't particularly thanked for it. I think he was also a member of The Cremation Society, and probably had more influence in helping to legalise cremation. -- Solipsist 22:40, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)


ATLANTIS MEMORIAL REEF Intersting site...seems to be the up and coming thing to do with cremated remains. I don't know how I feel about it. Seems like a really nice plan for this company to make some big money! http://www.atlantismemorialreef.com/home.htm -Sues

A question about removing the jewelry

Under the second "Image:Cremation1.jpg" picture it says, quoting: "The body is checked to make sure all jewelry has been removed.", but below in the text under "Burning and ashes collection" section it says that, quoting: "Jewellery, such as wristwatches and rings, are not removed.", so which one is correct ??

regards Wayfarer-Talk | on September 13, 2006

Use it crime

What about the way cremation can be abused? Serial killers Robert George Clements and John Bodkin Adams, both doctors, provided false info on cremation certificates (are these mentioned on the page?) to get rid of bodies with little chance of being caught. The latter doctor was prosecuted for lying on these forms. Malick78 13:31, 18 June 2007 (U

Not to mention Harold Shipman. Bernie.

picture

look at the 5th picture down. he's smoking a cigarette (while putting bones in the grinder, so they could possibly get some cigarette ash/smoke with their stuff) and wearing a bucs super bowl shirt. hilarious.

Economics

Changed this text to: The cost factor tends to make cremation attractive. Generally speaking, cremation is cheaper than traditional burial services,[1](ie burial with the use of a coffin) especially if direct cremation is chosen, in which the body is cremated as soon as legally possible without any sort of services. However, for some even cremation is still relatively expensive, especially as allot of fuel is required to perform it. Methods to reduce fuel consumption/fuel cost include the use of different fuels (ie gas, ... compared to wood) and by using a incinerator (closed cabin) rather than an open fire[2]

References

  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference sublette-p53 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ Mokshda green cremation system

Tri-State Crematorium

I thought I had a link to an article on the Tri-State Crematorium case within the cremation article itself. Either I was mistaken or it had gotten removed at some point. The article on Tri-State has a little bit more information on the background of the case, part of the reasons this whole thing occured, and the aftermath. So I got the links put back into the main article in the appropriate sections.

JesseG 04:34, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I think there was never a link. Only now I learn that there is a separate article.--Patrick 09:43, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Picture: Should it stay or should it go ?

Over the past few fays one or more IP-editors have removed an image from the article, the most recent edit being: [3].

I have up to the most recent remocal reverted the edit since I found the justification rather disingenuous - especially since the photo in question is widely used on Wikipedia, in 15 different languages by my count.

So I would appreciate if others would state their opinion regarding this image. Thanks. Lklundin (talk) 19:06, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

burial of remains with someone else

"Some religions, such as Roman Catholicism, require the burial or entombment of cremated remains, but burial of cremated remains may often be accomplished in the burial plot of another person, such as a family member, without any additional cost." This sounds like original research. Any funeral home would charge an opening fee and a closing fee. In Canada that could be several hundred dollars.--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 02:23, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

"ashes"

"Contrary to popular belief, the cremated remains are not ashes in the usual sense." But the word "ashes" is used throughout the article. I suggest that a notice be made in the lead to the effect that "while cremated remains are not ashes in the usual sense, the word "ashes" is used as shorthand for "cremated remains" throughout the article." Or replace the word "ashes" throughout the article when it is wrong. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 02:27, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on Cremation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:48, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Please warn that claims of turning ashes to diamonds has not been verified

Just because a company makes a claim as this, should not be taken as proof. No patent? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ribazole (talk • contribs) 06:33, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Baileehall.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:38, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

What is volume of adult's remains?

And does volume and weight correlate with height? 109.240.81.130 (talk) 07:44, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

The sketch from the Vrba–Wetzler Report

I think a bit inappropriate to put that drawing in order to illustrate that article. It is completely false considering the actual blueprints of the crematories of Krema II and III at Birkenau. 2804:D55:422A:F900:4C41:26AC:B7A5:C2A (talk) 15:49, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cremation/Archive_1&oldid=1186032304"