Talk:Church's Ministry Among Jewish People

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October 2009[edit]

I've done some general editing and expansion. I found that there was a page for London Society for Promoting Christianity Amongst the Jews and as this is the same organisation as CMJ I merged the content in here and changed it to a redirect. I've fixed all double redirects. During my editing I got the impression that this organisation has a long and important history and I would welcome further expansion by people who know more about it than I do. I have also created a stub for Christ Church, Jerusalem and wikilinked it to other re

I think deleting the article about the London Jews Society was totally uncalled for. It had a long history under that name and appears that way in numerous scholarly texts. This society built many important institutions in Jerusalem which have the historic name inscribed on it. I think you have been overly hasty in deleting all traces of it.--Gilabrand (talk) 19:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I note that you did some edits to that about a month ago. I'm sorry that you don't my changes. However, all the content has been merged into this article (almost verbatim), nothing has been removed, and all the pages redirect here. It's absolutely not the case that I "deleted all traces of it". Please check this out if you don't believe me. The issue is, of course, that LJS and CMJ are the same organisation and I don't think Wikipedia is improved by having separate articles for them, especially as this article isn't particularly long. I know of at least one other charity that changed its name and has just one entry under the new name with a redirect from the old old, so what I've done isn't without precedent. Sidefall (talk) 10:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the former name appearing anywhere on the page, so yes, I consider that deleting all traces of it. You did not consult with anyone before moving everything, and I believe you have done a disservice to history and Wikipedia in your zealousness to merge pages--Gilabrand (talk) 10:56, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Forgive me, but I don't think you've looked hard enough. Both London Society for Promoting Christianity Amongst the Jews and London Jews' Society appear in the first paragraph of the history section. This has been the case for over a year now, before I did any work on this article. I have now put them in italics so hopefully they will stand out a bit more, but they definitely have been there all along.

Also, to quote from WP:DA, Merging is a normal editing action, something any editor can do, and as such does not need to be proposed and processed. If you think merging something improves the encyclopedia, you can be bold and perform the merger, as described below. Because of this, it makes little sense to object to a merger purely on procedural grounds, e.g. "you cannot do that without discussion" is not a good argument. As previously advised, I felt that having a single article for a single organisation was an improvement and didn't expect anyone to find it controversial. No content has been removed.

I am sorry that you're still unhappy with my editing. Do you feel that two articles would be better? Sidefall (talk) 11:32, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I just found another missionary society that changed its name - OMF International. That has a very significant history, which is all included in a single article under its current name. Sidefall (talk) 12:33, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

BMS World Mission is another example of a missionary society which has had multiple names. Sidefall (talk) 12:53, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Christian Zionism[edit]

Although the term is contemporary, I cite one source for its use of the Restorationists who formed the LSJ/CMJ. This is important context for the description of CMJ's position now, because it was a mainline position amongst Anglican and Non-conformist Evangelicals in the UK and amongst many in the continent, in the 19th century. I have added a short statement, referenced it, and transposed Christian Zionism from the critics to this addition. Cpsoper (talk) 21:44, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notable pupils of Mission Schools of the CMJ - archives[edit]

What is missing on the page: how many children went through the CMJ / LJS schools? Where did the "orphans" come from? Are there any records kept? I am especially interested in "Kuzularem", an orphanage and mission school run by the LJS in Ortakoy Istanbul between the 1860s and 1900 headed by Reverends C. S. Newman and James Baruch Crighton Ginsburg, respectively their wives.

A pupil of that school was Fanny, later the wife of renowned German writer and journalist Dr. Friedrich Schrader. What is strange with Fanny is that she was reportedly of Sephardic origin, but was given the family name "Goldstein" by the missionaries. Did they really preserve the Jewish heritage of the girls or were they not in fact uprooted?

Another story of a pupil of a LJS mission school is recorded in the following website: https://wheresrose.com/2020/10/13/finding-rose/ The "Rose" described in the article visited the main LJS school at Palestine Place, Bethnal Green. Apparently not an orphan, her parents handed her into the school as a kind of boarding school.

--Fritzanneke (talk) 00:09, 9 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]