Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 May 7

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May 7

Bicylce Reviews

I am currently looking for a good quality bike with a low price point. I have been looking for a good bicycle review website but I havn't been able to find a website that provides a good non-biased review. It seems that most websites have a sales pitch written somewhere into their review and this immediatly destroys the legitimacy of the review in my eyes. Any websites that you could turn up would really help me make a decision.

Thankyou.

What kind of bike are you looking for? A mountain bike, road bike, hybrid? Or are you just using it to commute? If you are looking for a cheap road bike then you are better off getting a used quality bike (e.g. a trek) than a cheap new bike. If you are in America then you should look on craigslist for a used bike, they usually have some decent ones.Eiad77 (talk) 03:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I am actually looking for a new hybrid (for city riding) bicycle and my budget is about $550. I have a few options but no review I've read really gives me what I would call "accurate assesments". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.227.19 (talk) 19:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

You may find something useful at www.ctc.org. Since you are presumably not in the UK (given you quoted a price in foreign currency) it will not all be relevant, but I think you will find some of it useful. --ColinFine (talk) 22:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd second what Eiad said, take a good look at Craigslist and see if anything would fit your needs. You are likely to save hundreds of dollars that way, and if you get a bike that is the right size and in decent shape you probably won't be able to tell the difference. If you are in Winnipeg (as your ip suggests) here is the link. I'd also suggest thinking about if you're going to leave it locked up in public or not. I got a bike off craigslist recently to ride to work, and looked for a cheap one specifically so I wouldn't be too upset if it got stolen. TastyCakes (talk) 22:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Craigslist is all very well, but you might wish to take precautions to ensure you are not purchasing a bicycle which has been stolen from someone else. There is no point in people of good faith feeding the black market. One way around this is to ask (as you are making the appointment to test-ride the machine) to see proof of purchase -- either original receipts, or date-stamped photos of that bicycle in use from a reasonable time ago. A rational owner/seller will not take offence. Or you could purchase from a police auction, knowing that efforts have been made to re-unite the bicycle with its previous owner. BrainyBabe (talk) 11:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Music Theory

What is the major 3rd above E?
—Dromioofephesus (talk) 01:51, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

G#/Ab. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Just to make it clearer, at least for the theory end, a second would be a whole step above E, and a major third would be a whole step above that. Thus, two notes above E is F#, and two notes above that is G#. See Major scale. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's completely correct to say that Ab is the major 3rd from E. Although they are enharmonics, that doesn't necessarily mean they are completely equivalent. E Major's third note is G#, not Ab. bibliomaniac15 03:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

You are right about that. The 4th note is an A, so there cannot also be an Ab in the scale. Under modern tunings, its a moot point, but the pedantic rule of "one of each note per scale" seems to hold here. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

It isn't necessarily about the E major scale, though. All we were given was the note E. If the scale were C, G or D major, the major third above E would be G. For A, E or B major, it would of course be G#. The note E doesn't appear in any other major scales. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:11, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed a major third above E is G#. E to Ab is a diminished fourth. Also, E to G natural, in any scale is a minor third. Major thirds contain four semitone half-steps. E to G natural spans only three semitones, which is a minor third. For example, a C major chord contains the notes C, E, and G, or a major third and a minor third. In short, musical intervals are more basic than scales--the scale is irrelevant to the interval's identity. Also, while it may seem pedantic to distinguish G# and Ab, and there is little need to do so if you are just trying to play or write music, if you want to understand harmony and why it works they way it does, modulation between keys, and tonality in general, it is important to understand why a major third is not harmonically equal to a diminished fourth, even if the pitches are enharmonically identical. An example: J.S. Bach always, as far as I know, wrote notes with the harmonically "correct" accidentals. If a note functioned harmonically as a major third, he wrote it as such, if as a diminished fourth, he wrote it that way. Nevermind that equal temperament did not yet exist--he still has 12 keys per octave, G# and Ab shared the same key the keyboard. He simply knew how harmony functions. Pfly (talk) 08:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

yeah, but such distinctions are still pedantic. If I modulate up a whole step, all of my notes modulate up a whole step. I move my fingers two frets to the right on my guitar (or two keys to the right on the piano) and that holds true whether I call the note G# or Ab. Harmonically as well, it's the equivalent of understanding the rules of placing commas. It only matters to music theorists... If I call the note G# or I call it Ab it makes the same sound when I press that key on the piano. The way that note harmonically interacts with other notes is also identical whether or not I call it G# or Ab. Quick, play an E major chord, but think about the middle note really hard as an Ab. Now play an E major chord, but concentrate really hard on making that middle note a G#. Notice that it sounds the same? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 00:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

The statement the scale is irrelevant to the interval's identity is accurate only for equal temperament. If you want your major fifths to be genuinely 3:2 and your major thirds 4:35:4, your instrument needs to be tuned to a particular key. --Trovatore (talk) 18:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Jayron32, by harmony I meant not single chords, but chord progressions, voice leading, cadences, tonality and keys, modulation, etc. It may be that the desire to understand harmonic progressions is music theory, but that term, "music theory" seems to have acquired connotations of merely analyzing music in scholarly and fairly useless ways--perhaps even to the detriment of making good music! To my eyes, and ears, having terms like "major third" within a (somewhat) logical language can help musicians see patterns more clearly. Seeing the patterns more clearly must be of use in composing, improvising, etc. Ymmv, of course, and we can agree to differ, especially having wandered from the OP's question into the thickets. Pfly (talk) 09:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Maintaining the proper intervals (ie....major 3rd vs "diminished 4th") is important in assisting instrumentalists(and singers) play in tune. Pressing the keys of a wind instrument does not automatically lead to the note being in tune like it does for a piano or guitar. Similarly a string player has no frets to define what each note "is." Ensemble tuning is a matter of listening, knowing what the note should sound like and altering technique. Using a # or a b (or even a double # or double b) within a particular gives the player hints to where their note sits harmonically among the notes being played by other players. It also makes reading scores much easier. E Ab B doesn't look like a major chord because A is in the space adjacent the B line (in the treble clef). If you played a C# Augmented chord the notes should read C# E# G double-sharp, because an augmented chord consists of two stacked major thirds. C-E is a third, E-G is a third. If you wrote it C# F A, C-F is a fourth and F-A is a third, it would look like a chord in second inversion which it is not. 60.242.240.24 (talk) 05:25, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

In lots of early twentieth century music based on equal divisions of the octave (whole tone scale, diminished seventh chord, and augmented chord) it becomes necessary to include enharmonic intervals. Let's say that we want to divide the octave C-C into major thirds, you could go C-E-G#-C or C-E-Ab-C. But there is no way to do it without using a diminished fourth. This makes reading whole-tone scales, augmented chords, and diminished sevenths in inversions a bit tricky, because either you end up with lots of double sharps/flats, or you end up with a chord that has the wrong shape. --203.129.45.73 (talk) 05:46, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Why is there softcore porn on DeviantART?

There's plenty of softcore porn on DeviantART. It's supposed to be 'erotica' but it's closer to either non-nude pornography (not underage, of course) or some sort of glamour fetish modelling. It's just softcore porn, there's no real 'art' in most of it. What gives?--Yo Dawg! What's Going On Today? (talk) 02:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

What give you the right to define art for other people? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:33, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I would definitely hit it, but this... why doesn't she just go on SuicideGirls instead? Not enough tattoos? Thank god... (that there are people out there that still think that tattoos are ugly, I mean I'm ok with some piercings but tattoos I find to be pretty much universally ugly)...--Yo Dawg! What's Going On Today? (talk) 12:32, 7 May 2009 (UTC)--Yo Dawg! What's Going On Today? (talk) 12:32, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah, DevArt. 30% furries, 30% porn, 20% macabre, 10% emoticons, 9.99% other crap, and 0.01% actually good art. bibliomaniac15 04:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I never said it was my kind of art, but art is one of those things that you cannot define for other people. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Possibly true. Can porn ever be art? Because that link I just posted above, it's not really any better than what you see on some softcore porn sites.--Yo Dawg! What's Going On Today? (talk) 12:33, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Can pictures of naked people be art? Sure. See Depictions of nudity for examples, or L'Origine du monde as a specific example. Can pictures of sexual acts be art? Sure, see History of erotic depictions (a former Today's Featured Article) and Erotic art, or The Garden of Earthly Delights for a specific example. At what level does art become pornography? Its subjectively up to the viewer. You decide for yourself what is art and what is porn. You don't get to make that distinction for others, however... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 13:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is worse. I just had a look at the various versions of The Birth of Venus. Why does it peddle this smut? When I was young we had laws about this sort of thing. etc etc rant rant rant Dmcq (talk) 07:57, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not peddling anything, simply making information available for those who want to know what The Birth of Venus looks like. (It looks pretty good to me, I'm sorry it doesn't look good to you.)--86.25.194.130 (talk) 10:07, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

He was being sarcastic. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 12:33, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think disambig pages look particularly good. To each his own. Tempshill (talk) 20:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Now there's a challenge! —Tamfang (talk) 22:11, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to be sarcastic but on a quick look round there it seemed pretty innocuous to me, especially by the standard of most arts organizations and more so when it is called deviant. Sounds to me like the OP has had some pretty strict parential filters on in the past. Dmcq (talk) 23:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Modelling scams?

Hello,

My girlfriend responded to an ad for models/tv extras, and the guy who interviewed her was ostensibly impressed by her, telling her there would be lots of work for her etc. The catch of course is that he wants her to do a photoshoot with them, costing $400. What I want to know is if it's common for agencies to do this just to make money without really being interested in getting the prospective model work. Generally, what proportion of those who go for photoshoots end up getting work? The company in question is Real People, based in Melbourne, and seems like a reputable company, but who knows?

Hope someone can help, thanks. 220.253.15.14 (talk) 07:44, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• Don't. If a reputable company is really interested in representing a model, they will pay for the photoshoot themselves (see http://www.modelingadvice.com/Scams.html) - Mgm|^(talk) 08:51, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• Yeah, there are very few models actually needed out there compared to the number of people in the general population. I've known a few girls who have done modelling of various kinds, but that's just a couple out of the thousands of people I've met in my life.--Yo Dawg! What's Going On Today? (talk) 12:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

This is an extremely common scam. Don't fall for it. --Tango (talk) 16:33, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Reputable agencies should be able to agree to take the money out of her first pay-check. Are they also offering any training? If she really wants to do this she might fare better if she found a good photographer and has a couple of pictures with a variety of settings, clothing, hairdos taken over a certain period. Use this portfolio to apply at companies that do mail order catalogs, department store fliers or at a reputable agency. At the very least they can direct her to a proper place to contact. TV extras is different. (OR) They usually get hired directly by the studio or the staffer for the show/movie. She'll get "reimbursed for her time" which usually beats the pay at flipping burgers, but can't compete with any decent paying job. Plus the assignments are few and far between. (After all people don't want to recognize one of the "women walking across medieval market square" as the same person cheering for the "wheel of fortune" contestant or standing in a crowd at a crime scene :-). If she does go for it, watch her health!! There are still a bunch of idiots in the industry who believe only emaciated, semi-starved figures are beautiful (Ugh!) The chamber of commerce and/or the better business bureau are also good places to ask about this company. 71.236.24.129 (talk) 18:46, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

This is what I loathed about the Australian film industry - it's backwards, not just in your modeling/talent agencies, but also your crew agencies. In other countries your crew agencies find you work. In Australia you find your own work and pay your crew agency to handle the payment. Even though this type of modeling scam is very common in other countries, I found it especially common in Australia - in fact I found it very difficult to find a decent agent in Australia. Most of them make their money from people paying them for unnecessary training courses and unnecessary photo shoots. They will advertise in newspapers and on the web. They will tell you that you've "got the look" or that "x factor" and that you need to go for training and it's only $2,000. Well here's the deal: a lot of these agencies are legitimate in the sense that they do get clients asking for models and actors and they do get some legitimate business, but as someone else pointed out there isn't a fortune of work out there and there are zillions of agents. If the agent is really convinced that you've got talent (be it acting talent, a character face, or if you're really drop-dead gorgeous) and if they're really convinced that you'll bring them business, then believe me they will be more than happy to take you onto their books for free and pay for any portfolio photo shoots or training. Training isn't necessary. For commercials actors and models are cast mostly based on looks, if they have a talking role or need to perform then they will be passed on to audition. It is only for serious roles like movies that you might need training or experience - and for those type of roles you have your high-end agencies that won't accept you no matter how much you pay them - they want people with years of experience. So the bottom line is this: if you're a model, you probably will need some shots taken - even an actor will need one good head shot taken. You should ask the agency if you can provide your own photos (maybe you can find a student photographer that will give you a good deal), or ask if they have an in-house photographer and if they can give you a good rate. The truth is they all have 'in-house photographers', who are all really untalented students who do the work for almost free while the agency pockets the $400. A good rate is something like $99. $400 is profiteering. But now here's the reality - 99 out of 100 agencies aren't interested - they want you to use their in-house photographer, they will say it costs $400 and they won't budge. So you've got to be crafty. One thing you can try is to just 'rock up' and try and woo them with your personality and good looks. Don't say you're responding to an ad, in fact maybe say you were referred by a friend, and walk in their like you've been in the industry for a while and they should be so lucky to have you. Say you need an agent and ask them if you can join their books. Good luck, and remember, the Australian industry sucks. By the way, I think joining fees are illegal in Queensland or one of the states - at least there's some hope! Rfwoolf (talk) 02:39, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Font rendering programmes

I'm having trouble viewing certain fonts (e.g., Etruscan, runes, etc.) what can I use to view these fonts on Wikipedia?Pandoradude (talk) 10:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

There are various free multilanguage fonts out there, the one I use is Code2000 (there's a download link in our article, just download and install code2000 and code2002 as you would any other font). I'm not sure right now whether it includes Etruscan, but it's pretty comprehensive. -- Ferkelparade π 13:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

See also the information and links in Help:Special characters and Help:Multilingual support. Deor (talk) 19:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, but I think i'm missing something. Either that or I really am not very bright. I don't understand how the site works once I've clicked "Download"Pandoradude (talk) 08:41, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

What is this form of Internet humor called?

This is an example of an ongoing gag on the net ... What is this gag with a funny pic and a witty caption referred to as? In other words is there a name to this black-photo frame wit? --59.182.9.110 (talk) 12:07, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

It's a spoof on the Motivational poster. Despair.com (article?) has made a good business out of lampooning them. Dismas|^(talk) 12:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

They might also fall under an image macro, but like Dismas said, that specific look lampoons motivational posters. Livewireo (talk) 13:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Specifically it's a parody of the "Successories" style of motivational poster. Mike R (talk) 14:02, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Should just mention... Please don't post a question on more than one desk.Popcorn II (talk) 18:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry removed from WP:RD/E --59.182.79.142 (talk) 08:14, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

They're demotivational posters chandler ··· 22:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

People call them "Motivational" Posters. Really, they just give you a good laugh, no motivating to it, unless you look really hard for ones on wheight loss. A good place to find them would be a website called 4-chan, or four chan.com.. Not too sure, never been there myself, but I'm told thats where they either origonally started, or, are posted the most. Gothrokkprincess (talk) 16:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

How do seals impact other species?

I'm curious about seals and the seal hunt. I know seals are carnivorous and eat other species. So, I'm curious about how the seals impact other species? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.56.86.35 (talk) 15:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

With a squishy thud?

Seriously, you may have to be more specific on which species but in general they either 1) eat them 2) get eaten by them 3) eat the same food as them and so compete directly with the other species 4) don't affect them AllanHainey (talk) 15:53, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

If we are talking California seals you also have to consider 5) Kelp which is kept in check by the seals disturbing the water. 71.236.24.129 (talk) 18:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Some seals are surprisingly close to the top of the food chain: Leopard seals eat penguins - and sometimes other species of seal. But how they impact them is hard to say. Sometimes predation is good for a species - gets rid of the weak ones, prevents over population. Sometimes, it's not so good and can drive down the population of their victims. SteveBaker (talk) 23:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! That's helpful. I'm not really sure which species but I've seen the ones along the coast of British Columbia, Canada. I was just wondering if they are not hunting other species into extinction?? Apparently they are almost overly numerous and I got the impression that locals considered them how we consider gophers here in the prairies where I live. Gophers are cute little rodents, not unlike the rat where they eat everything they see and multiply continuously destroying everything in their path. We've actually seen them eat their own dead. So, I often wonder how much all these animal rights groups only protect animals that they deem "cute". Seems hypocritical to me if that's the case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.56.86.35 (talk) 15:41, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

The most controversial naggingly ongoing cases in the US over the last 15 years or so has been over various subspecies of the Spotted Owl, which is not particularly cute. (To non-owls, anyway.) Tempshill (talk) 19:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Have you read Seal hunting and, for one example in detail, 2008 Canadian commercial seal hunt? BrainyBabe (talk) 13:03, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I truly don't understand this issue. I've read all the wikis. Seems a little heavy on the one side (animal rights activists) and only allusions to the other side. Has anyone ever been to a farm or slaughter house? People just seem to want to conveniently not know where food or products come from and live their oblivious lives and then get upset about seals over a nice steak dinner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.56.86.35 (talk) 15:33, 11 May 2009 (UTC) Finally found a page that mostly answers my question: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/05/05/f-seal-hunt.html

Date of publication?

Charles F. Easton's "Mt. Baker: Stories, Legends and Explorations" Kittybrewster ☎ 17:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

If you need this in a bibliography, check on the title page. Otherwise Google Book Search might help. MTM (talk) 18:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Google books doesn't seem to have it - although there is a book by the same author with a very similar title: "Mt. Baker, Its Trails and Legends A Chronology of the Discovery, Exploration..." the Google Books page is here. It seems that Mr Easton is a member of the Mt.Baker club - and has written a ton of stuff relating to it. SteveBaker (talk) 22:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

How can a patent apply to a locomotive paint scheme?

This patent protects an "ornamental design for a locomotive body", but I thought patents were only for inventions. Shouldn't this have been registered as a trademark? --NE2 18:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

There is something called a "design patent". It is not for inventions, but for a particular ornamental design. That's what you're talking about. Notice at the top of this particular patent it says "Des." and then the patent number. Tempshill (talk) 20:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, here's a patent on swinging sideways instead of back and forth on a playground swing, so there's obviously a certain amount of napping going on at the USPTO. --Sean 14:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Whopper

Is Burger King's Whopper grilled over an open flame?--Pufferfish4 (talk) 18:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's broiled over and under two open flames; see Grilling#Broiling. Deor (talk) 19:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Olympic half-brick tossing

A couple of months ago, User:Rmhermen remarked here, "You can't hardly throw a stick without hitting a casino"; and a few hours later User:Fullobeans observed, "You can't throw a rock in a city without hitting a doctor or a cultural site." It reminds me that for P. G. Wodehouse (or at least for Bertie Wooster) the thing that you can't throw without hitting <something abundant> was always a half-brick. Is there a cherished tradition in England of hurling half-bricks? Do young flingers hope someday to graduate to full bricks? Is Unhalfbricking relevant here? —Tamfang (talk) 20:47, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

There certainly does seem to be something of a tradition; in the second paragraph of Kingsley's The Water-Babies, for instance, one can read: "One day a smart little groom rode into the court where Tom lived. Tom was just hiding behind a wall, to heave half a brick at his horse's legs, as is the custom of that country when they welcome strangers. …" I know I've seen similar instances in a number of works of fiction. It's my interpretation that half bricks are used because they can be tossed a greater distance than whole ones, thus allowing for greater opportunities for concealment and escape on the part of the tossers. Deor (talk) 21:04, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

The locus classicus is surely the Punch cartoon with the caption "Here's a stranger, let's 'eave 'alf a brick at him." (googling turns up plenty of places where this is quoted, though I haven't found a reference to its original date). --ColinFine (talk) 22:44, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Another cartoon variant is a Krazy Kat strip in which Ignatz splits his brick so that he can have twice the fun by beaning the cat with each half. The last panel has Krazy lamenting to Offica Pupp that it means Ignatz only loves her/him half as much. Deor (talk) 01:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

My favorite varient of this turn of phrase was always... "You can't Swing a dead cat without hitting..." Far more pleasing to the imagination than throwing halfbricks, now, isn't it? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 00:42, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

At a banquet in Montreal ("in this ostensibly foreign land") held in his honour, Mark Twain said, "This is the first time I was ever in a city where you couldn't throw a brick without breaking a church window." [1] The American comic writer may have popularised the phrase. BrainyBabe (talk) 11:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

My guess would be that half-bricks are more often available for throwing than whole ones - whole ones get used to build things. Half-bricks have no purpose beyond being thrown. Also, a half-brick is a more convenient shape for through, being close to spherical. --Tango (talk) 15:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Half bricks are quite necessary for building depending on which bond style you are laying ([2]) But they are closer to round. Rmhermen (talk) 20:39, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

True, but when I think of half bricks I think of ones that have been dropped or something and have broken unintentionally (so not a nice clean split down the middle). --Tango (talk) 22:34, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

When laying bricks you need half bricks for the corners. Usually you'd split full bricks in half by hitting them with a hammer. They then get tossed onto a pile till they are needed. If you toss them too far (with too much force) you end up with damaged brick. Doing the splitting separately will let you keep your rhythm while "buttering" and laying the bricks and some people are better at getting clean splits than others. So you'll want your best man (or woman) do the splitting. (OR) 71.236.24.129 (talk) 01:21, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

When they built my house (about 10 years ago), they used a big electric table-saw to cut the bricks in half - there was very little wastage indeed. SteveBaker (talk) 03:45, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh boy, now I feel old. I learned laying bricks about 30 years ago. I don't think I'll go to the trouble of renting a table saw to replace our retaining wall next month when a hammer can do the job just as well. :-) Would be interesting to see who was faster, s. b. with a table saw or a good worker with a hammer. I guess it's cheaper to hire s.o. to operate a saw then to find s.o. who gets good results using a hammer. The "clean cut" is definitely a plus, but you'd usually turn the "crooked" edge to be hidden, facing the adjacent brick on the inside. Do you remember whether they stacked the sawed half bricks or did they pile them, too? 71.236.24.129 (talk) 09:35, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

As I recall, they had one guy sawing the bricks and stacking them in a wheelbarrow - and another guy wheeling it around to the actual bricklayers (of which there were several). They bricked the outside of our (large) house in two days - despite several complicated bits like archways and decorative patterns...it was impressive to see it happen. I wonder why the brickyards don't just make half bricks at the outset. (Well, I guess I practically answered that - it's a lot easier to cut tapered bricks for making archways using a saw...they guy with the hammer would have had a much tougher job doing that well). SteveBaker (talk) 15:28, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

How long should you wait before you cheat on your girlfriend if she is in a coma?

I don't even know if it should be considered cheating, but let's say my girlfriend is in a coma and the doctor says it's quite the heavy coma and they don't know if or when she is going to come out of the coma. Would you consider it cheating? How long would you wait before you went on the prowl?

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.176.16.126 (talk) 23:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

The reference desk is a place to ask for facts, not opinions or discussions. We can't really help you with this. It's entirely dependant on you. Vimescarrot (talk) 00:27, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we know the situation well enough to help, I'm afraid. We don't know how serious your relationship was before she fell into the coma, we don't know if you are asking about casual sex or a new long term relationship, we don't know what you girlfriend's views would be, etc. I think you need to consider these questions, perhaps talk to friends or family that know you and/or your girlfriend, and decide for yourself. --Tango (talk) 00:33, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

quite the heavy coma .froth. (talk) 00:38, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

$T_{x}{=}\mathrm {Z} \cdot {\sqrt {\lambda }}\cdot \psi$ —D. Monack ^talk 02:57, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Our articles Girlfriend in a Coma (song) and Girlfriend in a Coma (novel) might be helpful — but almost certainly won't be. —D. Monack ^talk 03:00, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I guess this person has seen the Seinfeld episode when Jerry's neighbour goes into a coma and Jerry 'cheats' with his girlfriend, Kramer reckons that everything goes after (I think) 48 hours as he's worried about getting his vacuum cleaner back. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

If you had sex with her while she's in a coma, would that be considered cheating?--80.3.135.106 (talk) 09:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I think that would be rape. Vimescarrot (talk) 10:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Unless she consented before going into the coma, yes, it would be. --Tango (talk) 12:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

That'd be a pretty weird clause for a Living will. APL (talk) 14:33, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I've never heard of such a clause, but as far as I know it would be legal. --Tango (talk) 15:10, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Police in Wisconsin installed a hidden video camera in the nursing home room of a woman in a persistent coma after a stroke, and arrested her husband for having sex with her. An appeals court said the taping violated his Fourth Amendment constitutional rights. Police and prosecutors claimed it was "felony sexual assault" for the man to have sex with his comatose wife. Edison (talk) 17:05, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Tempshill (talk) 20:00, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26661840/ — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 13:49, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

If you actually Love or care about her, you'd wait by her side until she wakes up. No matter how long it is. And if you don't(Seeing as though you would even consider such a thing, proves such to be partially true) then you wait it out, and after about a year and a half, you go ahead, find someone, but when she wakes up, be sure to let her down easy. Note - Bringing your new love to show to her to explain, will most likely make her die of either a heart attack, suicide, or in jail for attempt of attacking you. Gothrokkprincess (talk) 16:41, 11 May 2009 (UTC)