Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 September 17

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September 17

Artist PS Wilson

I have an origional chalk drawing by this artist of five Rock Icons of the 70's. Joplin, Hendrix, Morrison, Marley, Lennon on plain white paper 24"X28". Does anyone know of this artist? Could also be R S Wilson from signiture. Azrider2 00:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, copyright issues are a problem with things like this. Marlith ^T/C 01:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

With things like asking if we've ever heard of PS Wilson? FiggyBee 05:37, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

American Pie

What might Don McLean's song American Pie mean. I have seen the previous article and noticed it was unreferenced. That might be the common definition of the song's lyrics. What might be the Wikipedian interpretation of that song? And speaking of which, what is the Wikipedian interpretation of this song. Marlith ^T/C 01:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I thought it meant Don McLean was a crotchety folk singer who thought the rock and roll of his day was annoying, and he wanted a return to the "good" music of the 50s. But we're not really supposed to have discussions like on the reference desk. Adam Bishop 01:13, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The only thing Don McLean has admitted is that the beginning is about Buddy Holly. The rest is usually interpreted by others to be McLean's history of rock music after Holly's death. This page looks at the lyrics line-by-line. -- Mwalcoff 01:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!Marlith ^T/C 02:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

There's an excellent treatment of this question -- including a comment by McLean himself -- at The Straight Dope. --Steve Summit (talk) 03:27, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Silver Dollar Hotel

I recently come into posession of a brass token approximately 1 and 1/2 inches in diameter imprinted with the words " Silver Dollar Hotel, Denver, Colo" written around the outer perimeter is, "GOOD FOR ONE SCREW" in the center, followed in smaller type, "MADAME RUTH JACOBS, Prop. On the reverse side, with a heart on both sides of the lettering, written in large letters, "GOOD FOR ALL NIGHT". My question is, can you find out if this is a legitimate token or a hoax? Thank you Unkl bill 01:25, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

It's almost certainly a fake; see [1] for example. You'll find quite a few of them under Coins & Paper Money > Exonumia > Reproductions on eBay. From what I can tell reading around, if it's obviously a brothel token, then it's not real; real brothel tokens were fairly nondescript, and rarely left the establishment (you bought it from the manager, you gave it to the girl, she gave it back to the manager). FiggyBee 05:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's a pretty racy real one with some miles on it: [2]. --Sean 13:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Incidently, there is no Silver Dollar Hotel in Denver, that I can find. However, the Silver Dollar Saloon can be found in Leadville, Colorado. It is a really interesting place, but I don't think it's been a brothel in recent history, if at all. The place around the corner, though, I was told was the longest continuously-operating brothel in Colorado. --Mdwyer 14:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

thanks everybodyUnkl bill 04:39, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

If you do research you do find a reference to The Silver Dollar Hotel by Jan Mackell, on Pg 62 of Brothels, Bordellos, & Bad Girls: Prostitution in Colorado, 1860-1930. "Other famous red-light establishments of Denver included Ruth Jacobs's Silver Dollar Hotel, ..." May 14, 2013. Chuck C.

Well, after one Google search I came across this article in The Miami News from 1946 http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2206&dat=19461117&id=bVAtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=A9YFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6255,370397

Apparently the "Silver Dollar Hotel" was a nickname for the Windsor Hotel. H.A.W. Tabor, a silver mining millionaire of the 1880's, had one of the rooms laid with 2,000 silver dollars. Hence, the nickname.

Yearbook software

Assuming cost is no object, what would be the best and/or most powerful softwares for print layout design for a school yearbook? For example, Adobe InDesign, Xpress, etc... I am already very fluent with Adobe Photoshop so I think that InDesign would probably be best in terms of transferring files between the two softwares. Thanks. Acceptable 01:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I (still) use Adobe PageMaker for this very job, which is pretty good with Photoshop. It's still a good program, but this is one of the few things I use it for, so it's not worth me buying anything new. If I was, I would buy InDesign. --jjron 07:21, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

As a point of interest, not relevent to your question, Meno Recollections offers a yearbook service which prints it and allows people to upload their stuff digitally. It's pretty good - my school used it last year. JoshHolloway 11:03, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

InDesign is pretty kick-ass. It is not very hard to use and is considerably more robust than PageMaker ever was. I'd probably go with that. Back in the day, when I did yearbook design, I used PageMaker, but I'd have switched to InDesign in a second if it was available. --24.147.86.187 14:31, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Flickr Pro Account

Do I need a credit card to buy a Flickr Pro Account? Is the Pro Account cheap? Despite this page: http://www.flickr.com/upgrade/. Jet (talk) 04:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I am afraid I can't check from work as flickr is filtered. I did however use a credit card and it was only around a tenner for a year, so pretty reasonable. I would try at first with the free account and then consider upgrading only if you really need it. Lanfear's Bane 13:54, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Cleaning keyboards en masse

Hi, I want to clean some 30-50 keyboards. A great undertaking, so advice could be handy. I want to basically just detach all the keys and put them in some water-soap-whatever solution, hoping that three years of uncleanliness will disappear before my eyes. Does anyone have experience with this, that can give me advice on how to proceed? Obviously putting the keyboards themselves in water isn't a good idea. Thanks in advance! 213.161.190.228 07:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

edit: I know very well HOW to detach keys. It's the cleaning process I'm asking about. 213.161.190.228 07:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Slip the keys into a (few) pair of ladies nylons and tie shut, throw in washing machine with a gentle detergent on the gentle cycle, clean. I'm not saying I've done this before but it's the first idea that pops to mind... Dismas|^(talk) 08:14, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Or one of those little mesh bags that you use to put woollen jumpers in, but I doubt the grime will come out without some good ol' scrubbing. --antilived^{T | C | G} 09:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Foam cleaner would be the way I'd go. Remove membrane, apply foam, rinse off, dry ... no need to remove several thousand keys. --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I clean cat hairs and spilled goo out from between the keys with a thing called a cleaning stick. It gets most of the uckage out dry, but dipped in a little surgical alcohol it will remove almost anything. They come from Lakeland. [3] (this is advertising but I have nothing to do with them!). It means that you don't have to dismantle and reassemble each keyboard, which should compensate for the time needed to clean each keyboard individually. SaundersW 09:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

This has been asked before (except not for 50 keyboards) and the answer was that it was safe to use water, provided it's all dried up before you plug the keyboard in. So just use simple dishwashing liquid. I'd rinse afterwards, though, because I'm not sure what any leftovers might do. DirkvdM 17:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the keycaps could be put into a porous bag and dumped in a dishwasher - the grease-fighting formula of the cleaning liquid should break up the oils binding the dirt to the keys perfectly well. The keyboards themselves should probably be vacuumed clean of dust and fluff and the plastic areas away from the electronics and switches wiped down with an automotive degreaser on lint-free cloths. The worst part is reassembling the keycaps in the correct places at the end. Before you embark on this activity - you should probably make an estimate of the time it's going to take you by timing the effort to do one of them. With keyboards costing as little as $20, it may just be cheaper to toss them all and buy new ones. SteveBaker 18:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Given that a single keyboard has over a hundred keys, you'd be looking at removing and individually replacing 3000–5000 keycaps if you took them off. Depending on the model, however, in many keyboards the only part that could be damaged by a brief immersion in soapy water is the circuit board. So open the backsides of the keyboards, pull out the boards (they'll be attached to the cords) and anything else that falls out (such as the contact sensor sheets) and soak the covers with the keys in place. After a good soak, rinse them, dry them and put the parts back together (preferably the same way as they were). Of course, you should first try this on one keyboard before doing it for all fifty. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Forgot to mention: If your keyboards are like mine, you'll find little rubber caps under each key. There's probably no hope in getting them to stay in place while you soak the keyboard, but fortunately they're all identical, so replacing them is easier than for the keycaps themselves. Just try not to lose any. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:51, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Someone once said here at the ref desk that vacuuming (odd word) electronics can be risky because the nozzle might get statically charged and discharge near the keyboard. Compressed air is supposed to also be potentially harmful because it's so cold (adiabatic expansion). A hand-operated bellow (or what should I call that), like the one photographers use, might be handy. Or a bicycle pump. DirkvdM 06:03, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I would agree that concerns over static discharge might be problematic for motherboards and things worth hundreds of dollars - but your typical run-of-the-mill office keyboard costs about $15 to $25 and doesn't use much in the way of high-sensitivity circuitry. The odds of destroying it are probably at least 100:1 against. It's simply not worth bothering about. Cooling the circuitry with a compressed air jet isn't likely to destroy them either - electronics engineers frequently use cans of 'freezer spray' to check for bad circuit joints - those certainly don't destroy the electronics. I think you are being WAY over-cautious over things as cheap and robust as keyboards. This guy has to clean a bunch of them - the effort involved in doing it could easily be worth more than the keyboards themselves - making life harder in order to avoid hundreds-to-one risks is simply not cost-effective. SteveBaker 18:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Why do so many people GUESS answers ? Googling "cleaning keyboards" turns up several excellent sites with detailed answers. Here is a good one. http://www.helpwithpcs.com/maintenance/cleaning-keyboard.htm86.209.158.223 14:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

It's not a guess if you have experience with cleaning keyboards yourself. I've often sprayed them with window cleaner, let it soak for a few minutes, them wiped them down. This may need to be repeated a few times for really filthy keyboards. Still, it's far quicker than removing all the keys. StuRat 21:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Software for Youtube

What is the software that allows you to save a video from youtube? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.83.49 (talk) 13:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

• Try Moyea FLV Downloader - it's free and it's worked fine for me - [4] Exxolon 14:24, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Is that legal? Marlith ^T/C 17:35, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

How about for MacOS? —Tamfang 20:28, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Install Firefox, the Greasemonkey extension, and some user scripts. I believe there are several for downloading YouTube videos, it's quite a common use for Greasemonkey. (What those scripts do is simply pull out the URL of the actual video file from the page source and insert a direct link to it at some convenient spot. You can then click the link to download the video. That's all there is to it. I've written one myself, for a local video sharing site.) —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 20:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Or after viewing the video, look in the temporary internet files folder (TIFF) and the largest file(s) should be the YouTube video file which you can copy to another folder and view using for example Gom Player. Sometimes though the file does not appear in the TIFF folder - I've no idea why. 62.253.52.156 18:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Protesting at the Capitol building

Let me preface this by saying that I am not asking for legal advice; I live nowhere near Washington DC and am not planning a protest of any kind, I just want to understand what happened.

Those of you who are familiar with American news may have seen the story about the 160 protesters arrested at the Capitol building for protesting the Iraq war; the article I read stated that they were arrested (or rather, the police began to arrest them, since some resisted) the moment they touched the steps of the Capitol building after leaping a fence. The thing is, our article says that the Capitol building is open for tours and so forth. Is it illegal to protest on the steps? Was it just that they hopped the fence? Were they arrested for trespassing (on state/national property, isn't it supposed to be owned by the people?) or for protesting (perhaps there's a law about protesting in/around the building itself?)? Kuronue | Talk 14:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe the legal argument that will be made was that these protesters violated the permit that had been issued for the march. Whether this argument stands up in court is something we'll eventually see; many such arrests are never prosecuted because the prosecutors choose not to stand behind such charges. But when the police can't find actual crimes to charge you with, they can always charge you with the "Holy Trinity": 1) Disobeying (the orders of a police officer); 2) Resisting arrest; and 3) Simple assault, even if it's your nose assaulting the officers' fists.

I was there, BTW, although I chose not to participate in the civil disobedience. Attorneys/legal observers for the protesters were also present as were hundreds of video cameras on all sides of the matter. Even so, one thing I can assure you of is that you'll need to scour the media to find accurate coverage of the protest or its legal aftermath.

Atlant 15:19, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

For these sorts of "crimes", the police do not intend to punish the offenders by trying them in court and fining/imprisoning them. The intent is generally simply to arrest the people to get them out of the way and prevent undue civil unrest - so it should come as no surprise that charges are often dropped and these people are typically released a few hours to days later. This is a cheap solution to a tricky problem. Finding the evidence to prosecute these people might well be quite hard to find. SteveBaker 17:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Precisement. Your rights are only violated for a little while, ehh?

Atlant 18:37, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Seems to me if you can prove that the fuzz arrested you with the intent not to prosecute, you've got a prima facie case of false arrest. —Tamfang 00:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

What's the scope of police officers' power to give orders in an allegedly free country? —Tamfang 03:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

THAT, of course, is the interesting question. Okay, they established a "police line". On whose authority? With what cause? And what about all those tourists who were being allowed right into the Capitol building on this same day? Did the anti-war protesters (citizens and constituents) give up some right that is still maintained for the tourists (including foreign nationals)?

There's lots here to think about/litigate about.

Atlant 13:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

• They must have been outside a First Amendment Zone, which tend to be at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard. --Sean 19:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The New York Times says they were arrested for "illegally crossing a police line." -- Mwalcoff 22:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The U.S. Supreme Court, even during the Nixon Presidency, upheld the right of the people to peaceably assemble to petition their elected representatives for redress of grievances. They recognized that was a part of freedom and democracy, which distinguished the U.S. from totalitarian regimes. At the same time the government has had a long tradition of agents provocaveurs infiltrating the demonstrators to attempt to get them to attack police or cross the inevitable police lines. The government has been very shy of public presence in public structures such as the White House or Capitol since 9/11, much more so than during the Civil War or World War II. Edison 01:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

European Currency

I once read or heard a story that sometime in the 1900's one of the Europen countries had changed its currency several times (possibly in one year) to discourage hording and encourage circulation of wealth ... It worked something like this: The reserve bank announced a date on which the old currency would become redundent and would be replaced by a new currency ... also, the new currency was a perctage lesser then the existing one ... the old currency was worthless the day after the deadline ... can someone confirm this and give more details!

41.240.37.183 14:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC) M.Hoosen Essof {Email removed to prevent spam} --Alphazulu 14:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Russia did something like what you describe with the rouble, and not all that long ago, though it was about new banknotes rather than a new currency. The deadline was only a week or two after the announcement. I wouldn't say the true purpose was "to discourage hording and encourage circulation of wealth" (what on earth is wrong with hoarding cash? - and most governments love it, as it gives them the chance to issue more). It was more about (a) cancelling as much as possible of the Russian government's liability to honour its banknotes and (b) making life difficult for those holding large amounts in cash which they couldn't account for, whether criminals or merely tax-evaders.

Because of speedy hyper-inflation, or more ordinary long-term inflation, several European countries replaced their currency during the twentieth century in a way nearer to what you describe. They generally allowed a fair time for people to change their old cash into new, but sometimes most denominations of the old currency were already all but worthless because of hyper-inflation. Xn4 05:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

In situations where the value of money is increasing (deflation - the opposite of inflation) there is benefit to individuals to hold on to raw cash rather than to spend it or invest it. However, if everyone does this, then there is no money available to fund new projects and manufacturers will find it hard to sell goods in a situation where prices are dropping. I too have heard of countries that periodically invalidated the old currency - forcing people to trade it for new banknotes. Placing a limit on the amount that can be traded forces people to spend their hoarded cash or lose it. Either way, that's a good thing for the general economy (although not so great for the individual). The trouble is that I can't remember any specific country where this happened. The hyperinflation case is something a little different than the OP is requesting. The other case when currency has to be turned in is the recent situation where countries in Europe switched from their local currency to the Euro - or when the British switched over to decimal coinage. But neither of those are precisely what the OP requires. SteveBaker 15:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

There's some truth in this - "where the value of money is increasing... there is benefit to individuals to hold on to raw cash rather than to spend it or invest it. However, if everyone does this, then there is no money available to fund new projects..." This was very true in the days when money took the form of precious metals (and banknotes which represented precious metals stored somewhere). We know the opening-up of new gold-fields boosted the world's economies. Now that money is simply created out of thin air by printing presses, it's easier for governments to overcome shortages of cash in circulation. Of course, if they go too far, they fuel inflation. Xn4 03:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

railway semaphores

Why did I.K. Brunell on GWR railways use semaphores which indicate clear by placing the semaphore's arm in a downward posistion. This way of signalling involves a more expensive constrction and is more prone to failures. It is therefore that signalling with the arm upward for clear has overtaken Brunell's way of signalling on all other railway lines. Wally. 82.173.141.164 14:14, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

If the arm has a counter-weight (which it really should in order to minimise the forces needed to move it) then I don't see why it's either more expensive or more failure-prone either way around. You can still make it 'fail-safe' by making the counter-weight be a little heavier than the arm. I would say that the GWR was is counter-intuitive because when it's down it looks like it's kinda barring your way and when it's up it's letting you through - but that's really irrelevent since the only people who care about it are the train drivers and they learned it the way it was. I don't know why one system won over the other - but clearly both systems could not safely co-exist. SteveBaker 17:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

"Down" for "clear" is unsafe because ice and snow can build up on the longer signal arm, overwhelming any action to raise it to the "stop" aspect.

Atlant 18:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

see: Abbots Ripton rail disaster.—eric 19:54, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Surely ice and snow could freeze the arm in the up position as well... Plasticup ^T/C 20:20, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Not so much freeze it in place as weigh it down. I could imagine that being a problem. If you have a long signal arm and a short, heavy counterweight - then much more snow/ice can accumulate on the signal arm and the longer moment would compound that problem to the point where the arm would be too heavy to lift. Then it would show "clear" when it's not clear - which would be "A Very Bad Thing". SteveBaker 22:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't find any indication that any british railway at the time used semaphores with a vertical aspect to indicate "stop". After Abbots Ripton in 1876, the Great Northern Railway, the Lancashire, Derbyshire and East Coast Railway, the Taff Vale Railway, the Barry Railway, and the Belfast and Northern Counties Railway began using Edward French's "somersault signal", but still used a vertical aspect to indicate clear. Other railways, including Isambard Kingdom Brunel's Great Western Railway continued to use the "lower-quadrant" semaphore with an internal pivot in a slotted post. According to this page, the GWR did not begin installing semaphores until 1865, by which time semaphores were in widespread use on other lines.—eric 20:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

O.K., found some more, around 1919 british railways began installing "upper quadrant" semaphores, with horizontal and up angled 45 degree aspects, which would become the standard on all lines except for the GWR, which continued to use strictly "lower quadrant" semaphores.(Ellis, Hamilton (1959). British Railway History. p. 293) According to this google books result, the Institution of Signal Engineers in Britain recommended against the adoption of "upper quadrant" signals in 1924.((—eric 21:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The IRSE recommended against the adoption of three-position semaphores (which were of the upper quadrant type), not upper quadrant signals per se. It was this decision that cleared the way for the widespread introduction of (two-position) upper quadrant semaphores in Britain. Signalhead 22:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks for taking the trouble of diplaying all this information. However it doesn't really answer the question "why" I.K. Brunell choose this way of signalling. It obviously wasn't all that wonderful because no other railway adopted his version of signalling. Wally 82.173.141.164 15:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

If you'll admit a rather non-specific but pragmatic answer, you may find that they did it simply because, before things become standardised, people tend to try to do things every way possible. It is only with very, very careful consideration ahead of time or the acquisition of practical, sometimes painful experience that it becomes clear why one way is better than another. And even then, sometimes VHS wins over Beta and PCs win over Macs.

Atlant 15:55, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Or indeed, standard gauge wins over broad gauge. DuncanHill 15:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

You are missing the point that the lower quadrant type of semaphore signal had once been standard across all British railways. In fact, that had been a requirement of the Board of Trade. From the 1920s, upper quadrants began to replace lower quadrant signals, that is apart from on the GWR, which stuck with its lower quadrants. In any case, Brunel's signal was the disc and crossbar - the GWR was one of the last railways to adopt semaphore signals. Signalhead 16:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Stock market data

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/overview/default.stm On data like this, what do the figures to the left of the green/red up/down arrows mean?----anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.51.149.80 (talk) 18:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

That's how much the price has changed (in pence for the FTSE), the little arrows indicate whether it is a rise or a fall. DuncanHill 18:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

THE MARSHALL CASE?

I'd like, if possible, to explore the Marshall case - somewhere in the '80s or early '90s. A father of two boys [don't remember if they were twins] refused to allow his sons to recite the scouting oath, because it contained the phrase "to God and my country" - and the father was agnostic. I think I have that right, but I can't seem to find a link to it. Any help would be appreciated ...

MRobertFlick 20:28, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks like the name was Randall. See Boy Scouts of America membership controversies#Litigation over the membership policies. --LarryMac | Talk 20:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, it definitely happens that they'll kick you out for not reciting the oath. My son was kicked out (well, at least they politely suggested that he might not 'fit in' and would be happier in another organisation) because he refused to recite the oath (I didn't tell him not to - he just felt that he couldn't do it). I didn't take them to court over it because they are a private organisation and as far as I'm concerned they are allowed to make whatever weird-assed rules they like about reciting whatever they like. IMHO, it's their loss. There have been multiple cases about not accepting kids who claim to be gay also...that's something I could imagine might be illegal - but I guess they got away with it somehow. SteveBaker 22:24, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

You could always advise your son to say "to Dog and my county"...I had great fun mangling the Pledge of allegiance in school ("...damnation, Underdog, invisible, with licorice and custard for all"). This seemed more sensible than my first thought about how to resist this attempt at indoctrination (holding my hand up in a Nazi salute while saying the pledge). This all reminds me of one of my favorite song lyrics ("pledge allegiance to the flag, whatever flag they offer"). StuRat 21:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

so your advice then, is that when we find someone who takes a personal oath seriously, we immediately attempt to break them of that nasty, nasty habit? rock on! Childhoodtrauma 17:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

This seems to satisfy the kid's abhorrence at taking the oath while at the same time not pissing off the authority figures and incurring their wrath. It's important to pick your battles (so that you can win them), and, in this case, you don't have to submit either, but only need to appear to. StuRat 05:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

National Guard/Reserve

Is it still possible to be in the Guard and work weekends only and only be committed for a year or two, and still retain and work full time at my regular job, and not get sent to Iraq/Afghanistan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.199.246 (talk) 22:53, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

(How CURIOUS that my earlier answer disappeared! Reinstating it...)

Atlant 00:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I doubt it. That would be like giving away free money without any actual work from you're side (at least, that's what I think). --PolarWolf ( sign ) 00:21, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any US military service which will give recruits a written, binding promise not to be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. This might make sense, however, as they could then replenish their ranks at home and send everyone currently on the home front to those two countries. Warning: Don't listen to what recruiters say, they regularly lie to get you to sign on the dotted line, and only things which are in writing are legally binding when they later deny what they promised. 20:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

savings bond

is there any way to get a savings bond with pre-tax money, separate from an IRA or 401(k)

Possibly, depending on your location, but those tend to be special purpose investments, for education expenses, medical expenses, or gifts to family members, with strict rules governing each. StuRat 20:47, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

pre-tax money

what kind of investment accounts (not material investments) can I push pre-tax money into, besides 401(k) or an IRA?

Cafeteria plans. —Steve Summit (talk) 00:20, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

madame X

how much does she make per year? I can't find it on her site

http://www.myopenwallet.net/

• Try sending her an email or leaving a comment on her blog. Bear in mind this info is confidential and she might not want to disclose it (she might just give a range or estimate). Since she appears to be anonymous unless some random reader is privy to who she really is, knows how much she earns and is willing to answer here (an unlikely set of circumstances) there's probably no way we can help you. Exxolon 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

so you couldn't find it on her site? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.199.246 (talk) 02:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't appear to be on her site, which is unexpected seeing as the entire blog is obsessed with her accumulation of material wealth. Plasticup ^T/C 22:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Profits

How much would you estimate Saudi Arabia and Russia make per year from revenues of oil including private companies? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.127.96.178 (talk) 23:03, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Saudi Aramco is the only oil company in Saudi Arabia (i.e. there are no private companies) and its revenue is undeclared. It is estimated at US$150-350 bn Plasticup ^T/C 00:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The best that I can find on Russia is that it is the world's eight largest oil producer. Presumably measures of volume correlate to revenue. Plasticup ^T/C 00:48, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

However, Russia sells petroleum products at considerable discounts to many "friendly" neighbors, as a means of political control ("do what we say or we charge the full market price"). This likely reduces profitability. StuRat 20:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Don't most oil producing countries do that? Or at least artificially reduce domestic prices. Plasticup ^T/C 22:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps many do to some extent, like Venezuela selling cheap oil to Cuba to prop up Castro and ensure that it remains a totalitarian communist nation. The US is a major producer, but doesn't sell it at a discount, as individual companies own the oil, and they want to maximize profits. (Yes, oddly enough the US does export oil, even though it is a net importer.) StuRat 05:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC)