Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 November 18

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November 18

Motorola Razor Cell Phone

Does anyone know how to (and whether or not it is even possible to) change the following "setting" on a Motorola Razor cell phone? In my cell phone's address book, all of the entries are listed as such: (for example) John Smith 18005551212. Is it possible to make the address book entries read as such: John Smith 1-800-555-1212 ... (that is, with the three traditional dashes placed in the telephone number in the correct positions)? It's extremely difficult to read the telephone numbers when all eleven digits are strung together with no separations at all. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:57, 18 November 2007 (UTC))

To my knowledge this is impossible with Motorola's original firmware. There are many alternative free softwares available to replace the firmware for that phone. You might want to read on those and see if any proposes what you want. You will have more hits in GOOGLE if you typer RAZR though. Keria (talk) 13:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC))

Vaudeville Performers

I am looking for information on a vaudeville duo by the name of Jillson and Reed.209.244.188.57 (talk) 01:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

There's a little here. Xn4 02:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Urinal Cakes in the mouth?

What happens when you hold a urinal cake in your mouth? Are they toxic? How does it taste? BradTimlin (talk) 02:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

They most likely have dangurous chemicals and the drinking of ones urin can make you EXTREMLY sick and other would be even worse. It would taste horrible, a good idea would be to drink your own piss then add chemiclas then old warm pee from about 3 days ago. Esskater11 02:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Parts of that answer are slightly urban-mythesque. I would recommend not ingesting a urinal cake, because of the toxic chemicals. However, drinking of urine, while it can be dangerous if you have certain diseases, is not necessarily dangerous (it's not necessarily beneficial either, but that's a different issue). You probably take a greater risk eating chicken in certain dodgy eateries than you do in drinking your own urine. There are millions of people who drink their own urine on a daily basis with no ill effects - see urine therapy. When Morarji Desai became Prime Minister of India in 1977, he initially attracted much more attention from the Western press with his revelation that he was a daily urine drinker, than the fact of his political success at the age of 81. He died at the age of 99. As for the taste issue, maybe a citation would be more helpful than Esskater's assumption that "it would taste horrible". -- JackofOz (talk) 02:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The urinal cake article says that they're mainly made of either paradichlorobenzene or naphthalene. Both of those are toxic, and considered to possibly cause cancer. MrRedact (talk) 03:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Well thank you for the "answers" but I was thinking about holding a NEW urinal cake in my mouth, not one with piss on it... what chemicals are in it that would make it harmful? BradTimlin (talk) 04:05, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you missed the answer right above yours, but they contain toxic and carcinogenic chemicals. Don't do it. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 05:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

According the articles paradichlorobenzene and naphthalene some symptoms include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, blood in the urine, jaundice, fatigue, lack of appetite, restlessness, pale skin, dizziness, headaches, liver problems, painful irritation of the nose and eyes, skin blotches, lower numbers of red blood cells, cancer, liver and kidney tumors. In short DON'T EAT IT. Jon513 (talk) 13:55, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It would be advisable to not eat anything in a motorway service station, even though urinal cakes might be the best option.

Song in dell comerical

In the Dell comerrical where the guy is walking in that robot suit. What is that songs name. Sorry for being vauge. Esskater11 02:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The W. A. N. D. by The Flaming Lips [1] --Melburnian (talk) 03:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

career in extraterrestrial/paranormal studies

how would i go about finding a career in studying/researching aliens or other paranormal things? what kind of degree would i need? who would i work for?

Though it would be fun to be a professional ufologist, most people who study UFOs do so as a hobby. There aren't any real careers in ufology, outside of writing books or giving lectures on the subject. Zagalejo^^^ 06:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Here's an article from CUFOS that might be of interest: [2]. Zagalejo^^^ 06:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

What with the dearth of evidence for the "paranormal", etc., chances are that you'd be working for a charlatan or nutball. -- Hoary (talk) 07:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

There is extremely little professional parapsychology research going on any more, and what little there is is on the decline, but it does still exist. See Parapsychology#Parapsychology today and Rhine Research Center. Getting a PhD in psychology might help. MrRedact (talk) 14:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

The FBI has a very small number of jobs available in the extraterrestrial/paranormal field, according to a documentary I once saw called The X-Files. MrRedact (talk) 16:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

My advice about starting a career of this sort would be to go and read some Isaac Asimov books on the topic and then reappraise your position. Richard Avery (talk) 09:21, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

There is the Koestler Parapsychology Unit at the University of Edinburgh. DuncanHill (talk) 09:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

The trouble is that these subjects have been researched and found to be simply untrue. Hence we know the answer and there is clearly no need for further research. What research remains is being done by the nut-jobs - so funding is going to be tough to find - and jobs even tougher. I strongly recommend getting some serious scientific training and researching some of the utterly bizarre, mind-twisting things that are really happening in our universe - once you get past the superficial stuff, UFO's and 'paranormal' phenomena would not be as weird. You certainly could get a job researching 15 dimensional space or quantum computers that can do an infinite number of calculations in parallel or the prospects for making tiny robots that are small enough to enter your bloodstream and repair cells or materials that are strong enough to make an elevator that would take you up to geostationary orbits - which is hanging from literally nothing! There are plenty of really interesting subjects to study that will actually give your contribution meaning for the future of humanity - rather than flushing your life down the toilet doing 'junk science'. SteveBaker (talk) 17:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Not true Steve. There are a lot of charlatans, and I am in no way claiming that there is such a things as 'the paranormal', but to say "these subjects have been researched and found to be simply untrue" when the question asked "how would i go about finding a career in studying/researching aliens or other paranormal things? what kind of degree would i need? who would i work for?" seems rather slapdash. Aliens have not been researched and found to be untrue, but plausible explanations that do not involve aliens have been found for most terrestrial 'alien' sightings. Aliens themselves remain rather likely, although it has not been possible to do much research into actual aliens as we haven't found any yet (and may not).

The question asker wanted to know what degree would be useful in researching paranormal things, and I would think it would depend on what paranormal things you wanted to research, and what aspect of them you wanted to look into. If you're interested in a particular area, get a degree in a reputable subject that would give you insight, become a research scientist and see if you can convince someone to fund you to research the area. Some people would be happy to fund some odd things out of curiosity, some would fund some things to see them disproved, some in the hopes they would be proved. Or you could end up poor lab-less :) If you're more interested in the general paranormal 'experience' and the way these things spread and are discussed (including those who believe, and those like Steve above), perhaps an anthropology degree would be best. That would probably increase the chances that you'd get paid to research and write about these things, although you'd be looking with a very different perspective.

I find these things fascinating, and I'm afraid I'm a Fortean. If you tell me you saw the ghost of your dead mother and she made you a pancake, I'll be terribly interested. I probably won't believe your interpretation, but I'll certainly file it away as something that happened, and investigate the smell of fried batter that lingers in your room... Skittle (talk) 23:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

You could go for a career in astrobiology (also called exobiology) but although you would be researching "aliens" you wouldn't be studying anything "paranormal". A degree in astronomy or biology would be a good start for that type of career. Keria (talk) 11:37, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Latina and Polynesian Porn sites

Hi I'm just wondering if anyone here knows of any good sites with latina and polynesian chicas? Lesbian would be best but if not hardcore porn. Thanks in advance LocoLatino (talk) 07:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Porn sites seem to be very energetic in advertising their existence, and there seem to be plenty of bulletin boards devoted to this uplifting subject. You're an active contributor to "talk" here; would you care to contribute to an article at some time? -- Hoary (talk) 07:39, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

You asked this question before, it can be found in the archives, specifically Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 November 9#Latina and Polynesian Porn sites. Rockpocket 07:43, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

semiconductor

Band diagram of a p⁺n junction. The band bending is a result of the positioning of the Fermi levels in the p⁺ and n sides.

i have read the book of the semiconductor and found the probleme with instrinsic fermi energy level in the topics of banding of energy band. as i read it is found that the fermi energy level is constant for a semiconductor and if the semiconductor isnot dopped uniformely,making dopped gradient along the length,the bending effect of energy band is found eg: the cb,vb and fermi energy level get slope and as i said that the fermi energy level is same so it doesnot get slope but the istrinsic fermi energy level is get slope

but i m confused what the actual physical meaning of the instrinsic fermi energy level????

Are you referring to this image? I'm no expert, but I think it is misleading. The intrinsic Fermi level does not change. The diagram is meant only to illustrate the change in the positions of the conduction and valence bands relative to the device level, and the intrinsic level has to remain between them. It would be better if the device level sloped and the other three lines were straight across. You should ask this on the Science desk. --Milkbreath (talk) 17:33, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

No, the diagram is not misleading. The point is that the Fermi level is always flat within any set of conductive materials in electrical contact, once equilibrium has been reached. If at any moment the Fermi level is not flat, electrons will flow until it is. The Fermi level is essentially the dividing line between filled and unfilled electronic states, and if electrons have a higher energy in one material, they will flow to an available lower-energy state elsewhere, thereby increasing the electrostatic potential in that region, until the Fermi level is flat. This is completely analogous to a water surface. If two or more containers of water are connected with hoses, water will flow between them until the water level is the same in all the containers. In a given semiconductor material, the Fermi level has an essentially fixed position (determined by the doping) relative to the valence and conduction bands, so after the Fermi level has become straight, the valence and conduction bands will be bent. --mglg_(talk) 01:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, now I'm confused too, I guess. The diagram shows two Fermi levels, one for the device and one for the intrinsic semiconductor material. The first is straight and the second is not. "Intrinsic" means "undoped", so that line should be at the same level on both sides, because both sides are silicon. Also, this is not conductive materials in electrical contact, it is a pn junction. Electron and hole migration ceases when a depletion region forms, and that region is in equilibrium, not the two materials. Further, the highest available energy level (Fermi level) of an electron in the valence band or conduction band will not be affected by doping, what is affected is the balance between carriers, which will move the device line to express a sort of average level.

I really wish he'd asked this on the Science desk. I'm a little over my head, but I'll stand in for the questioner until I understand this myself. --Milkbreath (talk) 03:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• A p-n junction is an interface between two materials – p-doped silicon and n-doped silicon – in direct contact (including electrical contact).
• The depletion region is established by the charge-carrier flow that I mentioned. The displacement of charges results in electric fields, which produce the band bending and the flat Fermi level. When electron and hole migration ceases, it does so precisely because the Fermi level has become flat, so that no direction is "downhill" any longer.

Maybe some background will help: In the absence of doping, there are no states in the band gap, so there is the same number of holes in the valence band as there are (thermally excited) electrons in the conduction band. This is described by a Boltzmann distribution around an average energy in the middle of the band gap. This average energy defines what the diagram calls the "intrinsic Fermi level". If you add some dopant atoms (with one electron "too much", in the case of n-doping), there will be more electrons than holes around. This will correspond to a higher average energy in the Boltzmann distribution (an actual Fermi level, which the diagram calls "device Fermi level", that lies closer to the conduction band). Similarly, p-doping will lower the (device) Fermi level, moving it closer to the valence band. If an n-doped region is in electrical contact with a p-doped region, the true (device) Fermi level has to be flat, because otherwise charge carriers would move until it became flat. This will cause the other bands to bend. That all the energy levels in the materials far from the junction on either side have moved up or down simply means that these regions are at different electrical potential (relative to some common external reference). If you are familiar with chemistry or thermodynamics, the Fermi level is essentially a chemical potential for electrons. --mglg_(talk) 04:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm familiar with electronics, or used to be. Or thought I was until I saw all this about a quantum approach to semiconductor theory. The higher-energy electrons on the n side cannot flow to the p side because of the space charge at the junction barrier. And the diagram seems to show that electrons in the conduction band, for instance, are at a higher energy on the p side than on the n side; how can that be? I'm using the technique here of asking stupid questions until the other guy figures out what it is I don't know that I can't tell him I don't know because I don't know it. But let's try returning to the original question: "What the actual physical meaning of the instrinsic fermi energy level?" --Milkbreath (talk) 11:42, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Do paypal provide service for Bangladeshi users ?

I'm a Bangladeshi resident . I've started signing up in paypal but i did'nt find Bangladesh in their country/region list ? Is it possible for me to enjoy the service of paypal ?

It seems that Bangladesh is not one of Paypal's "supported countries". I noticed that a few other Muslim countries (Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Egypt, Iran, United Arab Emirates) are not "supported", or served, by Paypal, nor are some poorer countries in the Americas (Haiti, Dominican Republic) or some African countries (Nigeria, Ghana, Congo-Brazzaville, Zimbabwe). Possibly, legal or financial infrastructures in those countries would make it difficult for Paypal to offer its services in those countries, or U.S. government restrictions on money transfers to or from certain countries may stand in the way. Marco polo (talk) 02:35, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Paypal also relies upon all sorts of electronic banking services that may simply not exist in those places. SteveBaker (talk) 17:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Extras in Films and Lip Readers

I've just been watching a film with a restaurant scene. You can clearly see about 3 groups of extras in the background talking (though obviously the voices are not heard) and it got me thinking... What do they talk about and can lip-readers see what they are saying? I expect they don't talk based on any sort of script, so plausibly they might be discussing roles they've done in other film or just day-to-day things. Anyways seeing as A) I cannot lip read and B) I don't know anyone who has been in a film. I wondered if anybody knows, or indeed if they do lip-read, does watch the extras. I should note that this is just because I was watching a film i've seen about a million times, normally i watch the main characters!! ny156uk (talk) 12:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Not so sure about films, but in plays the characters having unheard conversations in the background are discouraged from having meaningful conversation because they might get involved and miss a cue, so it is common to just repeat a phrase (softly) such as "Bread and butter" while appearing to show facial expressions consistent with a conversation. Edison (talk) 14:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Edison - wow, that is interesting. I would have never known that. But, yes, it does make a great deal of sense. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC))

In film they can talk about anything although it's important that they don't actually make a noise. In any professional production (compare to an unprofessional production where the director might not be very experienced) the extras are supposed to be absolutely silent so that the actors' voices can be recorded clearly. This gives the editor the chance to put background noise in later - and whatever noise might have been picked up by an extra might contaminate the added background sound in an unideal way. Some of the time the extras are saying nonsense lines like "I have no dialogue" - but other times if they can hear eachother they may even have proper conversations. I'm no expert on lip reading but I would guess that you would need to clearly see the lips and facial expressions, and, you'd need to watch the movement for a couple of seconds to get some idea of the sentence structure to make out what the person is saying - and in a film it's rare to clearly see an extra speaking for a long time where you would get an opportunity to make out what they're saying -- but either way it's probably nonsense. Rfwoolf (talk) 15:18, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

See also Walla. 84.65.107.232 (talk) 15:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

According to the lip reading article, it says "...Other difficult scenarios in which to speechread include: lack of a clear view of the speaker's lips. This includes obstructions such as moustaches or hands in front of the mouth; the speaker's head turned aside or away; bright light source such as a window behind the speaker.". It also mentions that to lip read you normally rely on a lot more than just the lips, such as the tongue, facial expression and movement, gestures, as well as context, and that only about 30-40% of english speech is deciferable from lips alone.

So my guess is that lip readers would have a hard time deciphering what extras are saying - not without a bit of sound or context etc Rfwoolf (talk) 15:26, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

There's a term for what they say in the background, and I'm pretty sure we have an article on it, but I can't remember what it is at all. There are some specific nonsense phrases which are often used because they sound like "background chatter". --24.147.86.187 (talk) 17:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

See walla. I always preferred rhubarb. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb. Custard! FiggyBee (talk) 17:45, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Rhubarb#Other_uses_of_the_word. Corvus cornix (talk) 22:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

"natter grommish" – I think I got that from David Gerrold's book on the making of The Trouble With Tribbles. —Tamfang (talk) 22:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

This probably also applies to newsreaders on TV. Many news shows start out with 2 people chatting, and when the lights go on they turn to face the cameras and start the show. At the end, they do their goodbyes to the viewers, then resume their chat. I always wonder whether they pick up where they left off before ("As I was saying before we were rudely interrupted by this damn news broadcast, ...."), or start a new conversation, or whether they're just saying "rhubarb" etc. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:55, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

BONSOR

Bonsor name is extremely rare in India. In UK there are many listed in Wikipedia, including that of Sir Nicolas Cosmos Bonsor, the fourth Baronet. Am interested to trace my ancestary,and therefore request e-mail/ address of Sir Bonsor to enable me to get in touch with him. Further,i would like to know how i can insert my write up in the Wikipedia. Thanks.

Surinder Bonsor, India. 59.95.24.213 (talk) 13:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

A quick search on google doesn't turn up a site/email that is forthcoming. For individuals of this nature you may be best writing to the houses of parliament in the UK, or the MP that is now in one of the constituencies he represented (namely Angela Watkinson). ny156uk (talk) 14:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Some genealogical info is on thepeerage.com and he can be contacted via his website. 84.65.107.232 (talk) 15:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, an article on him is at Nicholas Bonsor. Feel free to edit this, but please remember to keep to the rules/guidelines at Biographies of living persons and cite reliable sources of your information. Foxhill (talk)

A question concerning "Universal Pictures Lorimars" 1984 production of "The Last Starfighter".

Are there plans for creating a sequel to this movie? The door for a sequel was left open by allowing the bad guy, "Xur", to escape in the final moments of the movie. Thank you,

Brian Long

This is probably a question that's impossible for us to answer on the Reference Desk unless there's an employee of Universal who contributes. Even then he/she may not be able to answer due to confidentiality issues. My gut instinct says unlikely, the film is very much a product of it's time and it's nearly 25 years old - a remake is a more likely idea. Exxolon (talk) 18:08, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Gold In Desert

Could gold only be found in river and creek beds? Because a picture that showed a large gold nugget described it as being discovered in the southern California desert, would that have to be found near or in a river or creek, not the actual desert?

See gold prospecting. Gold is found in seams in rocks, but some gets washed out with erosion and becomes concentrated in river beds.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

See Gold#Production and daughter articles Gold prospecting, Gold mining, and Gold extraction. Exxolon (talk) 18:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

So it wouldn't be found beneath the desert floor/sand? The big rock was probably found in the pictures that was discovered in the southern California desert was probably found in a riverbed or creek, not the actual desert? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.225.37 (talk) 14:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• High-tech gold mines need not necessarily have anything to do with rivers. Our Open-pit mining article lists several gold mines around the world where all the gold is found by mechanical or chemical processes. In fact, in these types of mines water can often be more of a nuisance than an aid. --M@rēino 16:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Even if it were true that gold was only ever deposited in river and creek beds, a lump of gold will sit around unchanged for millions of years. So a river that flowed through lush vegetation in southern California a few million years ago, eroding mountains and dumping gold into it's bed might well have dried up and turned into desert today. The gold, however, would remain right there where the river used to flow. Hence, it should come as no surprise that gold shows up in lots of places where there is no modern river. However, it's probably a lot easier for a prospector to recover gold from a river that's flowing right now than it is to trek around at random digging holes and looking for the stuff out in the desert...which would explain the idea that rivers are good places to look. SteveBaker (talk) 17:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Metrodome Field

In the Metrodome, the Gophers and Vikings play on back to back days. They change the paint in the endzone and midfield. How do they get the gopher's paint off within 12 hours to get the Vikings paint down instead?

Since the Metrodome uses an artificial surface, they just replace the sections with the logos. They're not repainting anything. — Lomn 19:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Tallest building in Flagstaff

What is the tallest building in Flagstaff? Æetlr Creejl 19:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Sechrist Residence Hall, with 8 floors,

Also Sechrist Hall, with 8 floors at Northern Arizona Universtiy.

DarkZorro 19:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Stripes

How do they get those broad, faint stripes across a soccer pitch, a bit like the yard lines in American football? --Milkbreath (talk) 20:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

If you mean the green-on-green stripes, they occur when you mow the lawn in different directions, causing the grass to be bent in different directions. I believe professional groundskeepers use special mowers for this, but it is very low-tech. Google "stripe mowing" and you'll find a bunch on that. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Its not really even that special of equipment. Its just a roller on the back of the lawn mower that pushes the grass in one direction or another. They use them in Baseball alot and make some pretty intricate designs in the grass.

A couple months ago I saw a book that showed how to make designs in your lawn with similar techniques. Don't remember the name of the book but I'm pretty sure a little hunting around on Amazon would turn it up. Dismas|^(talk) 11:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it's done with a cylinder mower (one with a rotating cylinder of blades that push the grass in the direction the mower is being pushed. The groundsman mows across the pitch to the other side then turns round and does the next strip, pushing the grass in the other direction in the process. In the old days, most mowers were of this type but more recently, rotary mowers have become more common, these just have a rotating propellor type blade underneath which doesn't really make any pattern. GaryReggae (talk) 12:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Buying watermelons

Is there a key to choosing ripe/good watermelons in stores? I've heard that if one taps/slaps the watermelon and if it makes a certain sounds, then one can know that it is ripe. Is this true? Acceptable (talk) 22:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I've been taught that if it sounds hollow inside it's a good one. --antilived^{T | C | G} 23:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

After living for a while in southern europe where watermelons were very common during the summer the key is to buy them from where the seller will slice into the melon to show you that the flesh is ripe to within 1/2 cm. of the skin. This rarely failed but I admit is of little use in modern supermarkets. I have witnessed lots of learned tapping and slapping of watermelons but have not yet found that there is a sure and certain method to ensure sweetness from maturity. The knowledge of the vendor is the best guide. Richard Avery (talk) 09:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

My wife (who is French and must therefore know everything there is to know about food) claims that pushing her thumbs against the ends of the melon provides the necessary information (although precisely how remains a mystery to a mere Brit like me). Personally, I want a double-blind placebo study of her abilities because I'm not convinced they produce results that are better than chance. SteveBaker (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I hope for your sake Steve that she doesn't read that! DuncanHill (talk) 17:39, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

That's an interresting technique. I thought it was "the darker the better" but I wish I could see a proper scientific investigaion into the matter. Keria (talk) 20:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't hit the fruit; grocers hate that. The watermelon should should look good - no cracks, blemishes, mushy bits, etc. It should seem rather heavy for its size (lightness implies less water, which could indicate either lack of ripeness, or a poorly formed fruit). Turn the melon over until you find that pale patch where the fruit was on the ground - unripe melons will have a very pale, whitish, patch; ripe melons will have a yellowish patch. Since it had no exposure to the sun, the only way it could take on colour was if the fruit was completely ripe - which is what you want! Up next for Matt, peace in the Middle East... Matt Deres (talk) 02:17, 20 November 2007 (UTC)