Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 April 7

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April 7

Sources

There's a news story going around that somehow drew my eye: Police: 5th Graders Charged After Classroom Sex. I tossed some keywords into Google to find out more. I discovered something odd, though. No matter how many articles I read, I wound up with very little additional information. In fact, not only did they all say nearly the same thing, they all used nearly the same words to say it. [1] has a listing of some of them, under the "169 more versions of this story are available" link. How does something like that happen? Are they all just cribbing off each other, or was there a single press release of some kind that they're all "paraphrasing", ie quoting without citation? If the latter, is there a way to get hold of it? Black Carrot 00:22, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

The key is probably this line which appears underneath the story in your first link -

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press.

Many news outlets receive stories via wire services, such as the Associated Press and use them verbatim. You might be able to see the story at the AP website. --LarryMac 01:57, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Such stories are subject to strong legislation. Journalists who give identifying details can be very harshly treated, as can any news providores. The truth is, this is not in public interest for immediate examination and the possibility of further damage to the children's interests is incalculable. However, if you are interested in such stories, you can hear much by talking to Elementary School or Primary School teachers .. unofficially. DDB 11:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about? --LarryMac 16:42, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I think he said that, if I found out the kids' names, I might visit the school personally and make fun of them. Which would doubtless hurt their feelings more than being arrested did. Anywho... Thanks for the Associated Press tip. That's what I was looking for. Black Carrot 17:35, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

What DBB is talking about, BC and LarryMac, seems pretty clear to me. The laws and journalistic standards which protect minors allow very little of this sort of story to "come to light" -- which in this case seems to have led to a perfectly common and legitimate pattern in which that small amount of information which can be reported without compromising these standards was covered by the AP, which was then picked up and passed along legitimately by other news media. Of the many very valid reasons why such laws and standards exist, "if I knew what happened people might confront the kids personally" is pretty trivial, and hardly mentioned in the legal cases on this subject. More commonly, the premises for such protections include a) the legal assumption that children should not later (as adults) be held socially responsible for acts they committed when they were children, which can only be accomplished if one does not name names when children end up in court, and b) the idea that minors have limited abilities to protect themselves, and as such need extra protections from law (such as anonymity) that adults may not get. As DBB suggests, to get a general sense of how this SORT of thing COULD have happened, speaking to someone intimately familiar with the age group, the dynamics of classroom peer dynamics, and the school settings which frame this and other events, will garner some understanding of theory, and help one understand why this could have been both possible and in some cases unavoidable given the current state of classrooms and schools...though it certainly would not give you information about these particular kids, nor does it suggest you should try to track them down for any reason. Jfarber 19:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I interpreted BlackCarrot's question "How does something like this happen?" to be in reference to all of the seemingly identical news stories he found. I was in no way attempting any comment on the topic of the particular news story; nor would I in the context of the reference desk. --LarryMac 21:38, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I interpreted this the same way. But I think the relatively small amount of information is part of what drives the similarity of news items. AP sources with more information may be more noticibly different in different news outlets, given more material to pick and choose from. Small stories cannot be rehashed much without losing so much they're not worth mentioning. This is, then why the journalistic (& more often closed-court) standards of kid cases are relevant to the phenom of multiple almost-similar stories. Jfarber 02:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

To clarify here, there is no law in the United States preventing media from reporting the name of juvenile crime suspects. Courts have struck down such laws as unconstitutional. -- Mwalcoff 01:08, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

In a number of Commonwealth countries though, there tends to be great restrictions regardless of age (usually ordered by a court) on what can be published once there's a case before the court. As well as additional restrictions regardless of trials when minor are involved. Note also while it's unlikely that random people will confront the kids, there is I would assume many potentials problems from people who actually know the kids knowing about what happens (and that includes other kids). It would presemuably be very difficult for these kids to 'move on' if everyone was talking about them Nil Einne 21:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

You make a good point. It could be a shortage of data that them from reporting separate stories. Black Carrot 07:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

What is the song playing here called?

[2]-I can't think of it. ~Siggy

Probably because it isn't a real song. It sounds like a little midi ditty created specifically for the site. Basic, basic chord progression, drum beat and arpeggio 'melody' common to thousands of songs. Anchoress 02:00, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it's "Wizards in Winter", from Trans-Siberian Orchestra's The Lost Christmas Eve album. — Kieff | Talk 00:33, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh! LOL my bad. Anchoress 04:08, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought it sounded something like trans-siberian orchestra... ~Siggy —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Russian F (talk • contribs) 19:07, 8 April 2007 (UTC).

Bloody sex offender

I'm trying to find the current status of the notorious criminal Joseph E. Duncan III to edit the article on him, to see if he's sentenced or executed yet. But I can't find anything. Also I can't find what profession he is. Please help, Thanks! Wooyi^{Talk, Editor review} 01:50, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Google is my friend. Anchoress 01:58, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I found that his trial is delayed to next year...ehh...but I haven't find anything from google about his profession before becoming a criminal. Can anyone help? Wooyi^{Talk, Editor review} 04:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

What was that song called in Blades of Glory?

The song Chazz and Jimmy were skating to the 1st time? It was something about closing one's eyes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.172.28.176 (talk) 02:33, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

I personally haven't seen the movie, and can't say anything with certainty, but the Internet Movie Database has only two soundtracks for the movie [3]: "Blades of Glory" and "Hot Blodded." Although I would assume that list is incomplete, but check if either of those songs jog your memory. --Ybbor^TalkSurvey! 03:00, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

It believe Aerosmith's I Don't Want to Miss a Thing (aka the theme from Armageddon) got the nod over Chazz's preference, My Humps. Rockpocket 04:38, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration on Paranormal Topics on Wikipedia ?!

What is going on ?! 65.163.113.145 03:14, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know!!!!eleven!!1111 Can you give us some more information so we can figure out what you're referring to? Which articles? What do you disagree with about their arbitration? Did you try the talk pages, or is there a project where you can ask this question on the project pages!? Jfarber 04:04, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

You were expected to use your paranormal powers to divine the name of the page in question. If you're unable to do so, then you fail to qualify to arbitrate the discussion. :-) StuRat 05:42, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia Project Paranormal's Talk page. 65.163.113.145 04:17, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

As near as I can tell, there's not much there. The project page you refer to makes a wild claim that "an arbitration will go on regarding paranormal topics at Wikipedia", but the page THAT claimant links to seems to be little more than a pretty standard conflict between two people about whether a bit of language is POV which seems to have degraded into an equally common rantfest that is making them both look bad while causing some members of the talk page's regular "crew" to take sides. Why that would be a threat to "paranormal topics on Wikipedia" is absolutely beyond me. Insert slightly humorous snarky comment about tinfoil hats, anal probes and fairies here. Jfarber 05:50, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I think Marion Bradley covered this with her Darkover series. It was the fault of the terranan who rejected the idea of female chastity. DDB 11:38, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone identify this aeroplane for me?

Earlier this evening I was going through my family's slide collection for the purpose of digitising them with my brand new scanner, and I came across this. It's an airliner landing at what I think is Kingsford Smith International Airport, though it may have been an air show at a smaller airport; neither of my parents can remember exactly. Anyway, can anyone identify the make of the aircraft and airline? Thanks. —DO'Neil 09:28, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Can't help you with the aircraft, but I can tell you it's not Kingsford Smith airport.--Shantavira 10:58, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Ask at the talk page of WikiProject Aircraft. I bet someone will know. Adrian M. H. 13:00, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it is a Fokker F28, even though it looks like the plane in the picture has a shorter nose. -Lapinmies 16:38, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

No idea about the aircraft, but I'd be prepared to bet money it's not Sydney but Canberra Airport. -- JackofOz 05:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

The aircraft is most certainly an F28: it is VH-ATG, belonging to the Australian Federal Department of Transport [4][5]. The plane was sold to a Canadian airline as C-FTAY in 1998, I don't know if it's still flying. FiggyBee 08:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Broadest shoulders

Who is the person with the broadest shoulders in the world? Guess some bodybuilder. Thanks. --Taraborn 14:21, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

My guess is the tallest man, since your shoulder bones don't exactly increase when you "beef up". --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 17:38, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Since when was shoulder breadth measured from inside the shoulder? Muscles can add a good few inches. I'd bet somebody with Andre the Giant's build. Black Carrot 17:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I too would expect it to be the tallest person in the world. My understanding is that most humans have several consistencies. Things like their foot size being the distance between their elbow and their hand or (more related to this question) that their height is the same as the distance from one finger-tip to the other. Not sure this is true, but if it is I would suspect that means the shoulder-width of that person would be proportional to their height. Obviously these sort of 'rules' aren't 100% perfect but i've heard it is pretty accurate. ny156uk 00:12, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to assume it's definitely the tallest man. Body shapes are quite variable even without considering 'beefing up'. Pacific Islanders for example tend to be larger then Asians (I'm not talking fat here). This is reflected in the height too but I suspect you'd find their average shoulder width/person's height is larger too. And as Black Carrot has mentioned muscle can add a fair amount of mass. If anyone is that interested, try comparing Bao Xishun (find a better photo tho, one where's he's standing up straight e.g. [6]) to someone else e.g. Mariusz Pudzianowski. Use the heights as guides. Unfortunately the only image 'editing' software I have on my computer at the moment is paint having just recently reinstalled but I'm pretty sure Mariusz's shoulder width is not much less then Bao but they have a large height difference. Nil Einne 22:30, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Reed Ice Cream Company

My grandfather C.F. Becker and Claude Reed opened this ice cream company in 1929. I used to visit my grandfather when he lived in Dundee. I'm 71 and all my relatives who knew him are gone. Do you have any info on his exact address in Dundee or any other info on the company other than what I found on MTOGuy's blog or how I can reach anyone who may have info. C.R. Becker lived in Iowa Falls IA and had a cigar and news store prior to moving to Omaha. I grew up in Iowa Falls and now live in Florida. Any help or direction would be appreciated

(personal info removed to prevent spam) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.27.165 (talk) 15:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

Dundee in what state? Did he live there in 1930 and do you know the names of other persons living at the same place, to aid in searching the census files. Edison

tobacco

Is there fiberglass in chew tobacco? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.61.116.228 (talk) 17:17, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

Yikes! I hope not. Fiberglass is a nasty skin irritant - you definitely wouldn't want it in anything you plan to put into your mouth. But on the other hand chewing tobacco is sufficiently dangerous by itself that it might as well have fiberglass for all the difference it would make. SteveBaker 17:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Dipping_tobacco calls that an unsubstantiated rumour. -- Diletante 17:50, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

It's a rumour according to Snopes as well: article. Dismas|^(talk) 18:29, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

It's obviously false. The tobacco companies don't want you to die...that fast. Clarityfiend 06:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not just a matter of dying. Anyone who has ever touched fibreglass would know how nasty it is (especially the wooly kind). You'd know if you were putting it in your mouth and no one would chew tobacco as a result. Nil Einne 22:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the guy's asking the molecules. Fiberglass is glass molecules, composed of them; they make it by using the same material they use for glass. The reason is that glass is a good insulator. What they do is chop up all the glass and then they make it furry, so they stuff it in walls to keep buildings warm, per se. That's why they recycle glass for fiberglass. Also the reason why fiberglass is opaque, whereas glass is transparent (because the glass is all chopped up). And do they include this stuff in tobacco, like glass molecules, I wouldn't doubt it. They but the most nasty shit in it. DON'T TAKE IT UP! And they could put in such small amounts that people do not notice it. Or maybe the fiberglass is so fine that people cannot fell it.100110100 12:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

We're not talking about glass at the molecular level (which is not a whole lot different than - say - beach sand). The question was specifically about fibreglass - which is to say "glass that has been formed into fibres" - not "glass that's been ground up into a really fine powder". When glass is in these very fine fibres, it seems soft - like cotton wool or something. In reality, the ends of those fibres are insanely sharp and if you handle the stuff (or chew it!!) the ends get stuck into your skin and break off. The result is extremely irritating to your skin - it itches and stings and can cause infections and it takes weeks for the continual sloughing of your epidermis to eventually get rid of them - washing doesn't help because they are embedded into the skin...it's nasty stuff. If there was any amount of it in chewing tobacco, you'd know about it for sure. I wasn't aware that it was an urban legend - but that makes a lot of sense. SteveBaker 15:24, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Training specific muscles

Hi, I just have a few questions about muscle training:

• How do I build the muscle that is on the side of my arm, like in-between the biceps and triceps on the surface. It kinda looks like a bump. I think this is called the Brachialis. A well-defined brachilias shows good seperation of the biceps and triceps i think. Here is a diagram
• How do I build the muscle on the back of my shoulder?
• How do I get well defined deltoids like this photo Picture —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hustle (talk • contribs) 18:35, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

I would appreciate it if you could tell me how to build these muscle regions using free weights and resistance bands. Thank you very much. Hustle 18:22, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Wet cat food without wheat gluten

The Fat Man is having cat food issues. My cat will only eat the chunks-and-gravy style of wet cat food (the sort that contains tainted wheat gluten, which is being recalled by pet food manufacturers). Are there cat foods that offer gravy-and-chunks style foods but do not contain wheat gluten? Is it even possible for manufacturers to achieve that texture without using the forbidden ingredient? Note: I am not looking for just any wet or canned cat food. I am only curious about the gravy-and-chunks texture.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 19:05, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay I was able to find a pretty useful link myself after much searching. If anyone else is interested in grain-free (and therefore wheat gluten-free) wet cat food, here's an article by a vet. It seems fairly independent and does not promote one particular brand, so I don't consider it spam: [7]--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 19:54, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

You might also consider feeding your cat regular people food (like lunch meat or tuna fish) until the pet food issue is completely cleared up. StuRat 02:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I think now they'll find melamine in a lot of things! Cats seem to be the most sensitive. Luckily, my monster bag of dry dog food lasts over 6 months, but I don't have a problem getting another one now, since there won't be much in dry food, and dogs aren't that sensitive. --Zeizmic 15:20, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

As for "my cat will only eat X" there is an old saying the "Hunger is the best sauce." From examining cat food labels, the ones with "gravy" usually have wheat gluten, but the "loaf" types usually do not. An example of wheat-gluten-free is Friskies "Poultry Platter" which even has turkey as the first ingredient, rather than "meat/poultry byproducts." Some sources say that a fish diet deprives cats of some nutrients (thiamine?) present in meat. Edison 17:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

You shouldn't feed your cat human food. It will deprive them of taurine, among other nutrients they cannot produce themselves. And once they get hooked on canned tuna, it will be long road back to regular cat food. Why don't you try your hand at a raw food diet? (no fish though, since raw fish contains parasites that might kill kitty). Good luck.--Myzembla 13:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Indie Rock

I posted a question like a week ago about alternative rock and pop rock but this time i am asking:what are the musical traits of indie rock?i hope i will receive a answer,thank you.

Well the Indie rock article is flagged for lacking sources, but it seems on target and quite comprehensive. Did you read it? If so, do you have further questions? Anchoress 23:56, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Indie rock is used for bands of a wide variety of styles, so it is not easy to pin down an "indie rock sound". − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 15:50, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

As far as a know, indie is short for independent. Basically

indie rock = independent rock

There for, I think it's more of an economic label than a artistic label.100110100 12:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)