User talk:Imz

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Happy editing! -[[User:Mys e kurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]}_{00:25, 19 September 2005 (UTC)}[reply]

wikisource[edit]

please have a look to your talk page at wikisource, thanks, -jkb- 21:49, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Template:R with possibilities[edit]

Hello, you commented here that the title seemed strange to you. I've proposed a rename at TfD. Your feedback would be welcome there. Shawnc 22:15, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Implicature[edit]

I think I am going to try to work on this article. But I noticed you objected to its factual content. I am hoping you can elaborate? Thanks, - Abscissa 20:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ishk redirect[edit]

Hi. You created a dead redirect for Ishk. Can you fix it? Thanks. Pascal.Tesson 05:31, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Central Asia[edit]

WikiProject Central Asia has finally been created! If you're interested, please consider joining us. Aelfthrytha 21:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the notice!--Imz 17:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pinyin Template (Translit-zh2)[edit]

Regarding Template:Translit-zh2, which is inherited by almost all templates using pinyin, you put lang="zh-Latin". As far as I know it is a constructed syntax. Pinyin is defined in ISO:639 as "pny". (Voidvector 05:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC))[reply]

What do you mean by "constructed"? lang="zh-Latn" (NB: Latn!) is actually according to ISO 15924.

I didn't know there was the special pny, probably the best thing is to use that one at this place. Thanks for bringing it up.--Imz 11:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Firefox 2.0 uses Chinese font to display "zh-Latin" text. The Latin characters in Chinese fonts are commonly uglier than those found in say Verdana/Times New Roman/etc. (Voidvector 05:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC))[reply]

I guess that's actually a problem of either Firefox or of the Wikipedia stylesheets -- so, the best place to fix it is there (in one of these stylesheets), because logically the lang attribute value (lang="zh-Latn") is perfect.--Imz 11:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I looked around and found that the common Japanese template, Template:Nihongo, does not give romaji a language at all. I was wondering if you object me removing the language tag for pinyin in Translit-zh2. --Voidvector 05:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's a drawback of that template that it doesn't specify the language. It is possible to specify the language written in a non-standard script in a correct way. So, specifying it would never hurt the mark-up, just give advantages for automatic processing. If styles are imperfect, they should be fixed.

No, I wouldn't object. That's the way of trying to make it best. Although, I would envisage other ways of fixing the problem (I mentioned them: fixing the stylesheets, perhaps,adding a style-attribute to that template).

But in this case we probbaly have the simplest solution: use the special pinyin code you mentioneda above. I'm performing the change right now. What do you think of it?--Imz 11:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Pny" does fix it on my machine. I see this as a shortcoming of the lang tag implementation, since most implementation only takes into account language/region not the writing system. Given it uses one of those 3-letter abbrevs, most (if not all) browsers probably have no clue what it is and just ignored it.

You mentioned using CSS to fix it. I am not sure actually sure where to bring this up. If you can tell me where can I go to give suggestions on changing the CSS, it would be great. Thanks plenty. --Voidvector 08:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:IAST1[edit]

Hello. I noticed that you have worked on Template:IAST1 and I was not clear on what benefits there may be for using that tag. I am sure you created it for a reason, and I look forward to learning more about it. I have placed a question about this on the talk page for Template:IAST1. The background of my interest in this is that currently within the Hinduism project there is a lack of standardization on use of IAST, and some previous threads related to this are refactored at: User:Buddhipriya/IASTUsage. I would welcome any thoughts you have on these matters, as the goal is to update the style standards. Buddhipriya 21:42, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

answered there Template talk:IAST1#What is the benefit of the tag?--Imz 17:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Hebrew[edit]

It's a great template, I use it often. Is there away to make the size setting a default like it is now, AND a variable. I need it bigger on Hebrew alphabet so I ended up justing coding it in each line, it was very painful and I still got to do Yiddish alphabet. I much prefer to use the tamplate (or make a new template with a bigger font size, but I seam to think this is possible to do within the existing template, is this true?) Epson291 14:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

answered there Template talk:Hebrew#Changing the size--Imz 17:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the answer Epson291 03:25, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Speex codec[edit]

This is just a quick message to say that I've moved your question about the Speex codec to this talk page, as you're far more likely to receive a reply. -Panser Born- (talk) 20:19, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you!--Imz 21:16, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category Flag[edit]

Privjet. You created Category:Flag as a redirect to Category:Flags. Categories should not be hard-redirected, as with the current software, this causes problems. In most cases redirects to categories should be deleted, and in this case I have nominated the category for speedy deletion. In the rare case that a redirect to a category is absolutely necessary, it must be done as a soft redirect. For more information see Template talk:Category redirect. —Tox 10:20, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see, thanks. It's a pity, of course.--Imz 11:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Russian phonology[edit]

Thanks for helping out with this edit. I'm undoing this edit because, as far as I can tell, the common Common/Proto Slavonic representation of nasal vowels is with the ogonek. I've seen the yers represented with the cyrillic letters, which isn't "crazy" (okay it is, but it's still pretty common) but isn't my favorite way. Maybe you could discuss this with User:Ivan Štambuk, who seems to have opposed my representing the yers with breved i and u at Proto-Slavic language. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 18:17, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, by "crazy" I just called the mixture of two and repetition, or whatever it was: ĭь. As for the choice of signs, I have no opinion and don't care as long as they are understandable. Of course, if they were consistently used throughout Wikipedia, that would be also good. So I wouldn't consider your edit as an undo, but rather as a further improvement, if you have reasons for your choice of signs--Imz (talk) 18:42, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And when I was doing that fix, I had to make a choice which notation to use and I had a thought like this: ok, the Old Church Slavonic line is written completely in Cyrillic, if this line ends up being just a transliteration (again, with cryptic signs like ǫ, ь understandable only by professionals), what will the value it adds to the article be? No added value for an average reader. So, I decided to be more IPA-like so that an average reader would get better understanding what the ideas about that reconstruction are like. I hadn't looked at other places, so I might break consistency of the notation, of course. So I expected someone to fix it, if it happened.--Imz (talk) 18:59, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Russian alphabet[edit]

мыслѣте is transcribed as [ˈmɨ.sʲlʲɪ.tʲɪ] because modern Russian has lost the yat phoneme. It does not distinguish between ѣ and е. In unstressed syllables, /e/ (written as either е or э) merges with /i/ and is pronounced as [ɪ] after soft consonants. This is basic uncontroversial phonologial knowledge about Russian and, if your source contradicts the scholarly sources, then your source is wrong. This, and the fact that it's unnecessary to source every transcription we make of Russian words prompted me to remove the sources altogether. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 13:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please look at the dictionary entries. The name of the letter is a separate word with a stress different than in any modern finite verb form.

Have you even tried to understand what kind of source I'm referring to before saying "if your source contradicts the scholarly sources, then your source is wrong"? That's not "my" source, that's one of the standard dictionaries of Russian language Russia and Soviet Union have been using.

Pay more attention to contributions by other people. You seem to be overconfident that they are garbage even without considering them closely.--Imz (talk) 14:11, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your flaw was the following: Before applying your knowledge of Russian phonology, you should have figured out which morphological form this is (at least, to put the stress correctly). And surprise! The modern verb forms have an и (мыслите (you.Plural), мыслите (Imperative)), not a е (which would reflect the old-orthography ѣ). That should tell one one should consult a dictionary.

So, I'd recommend you to discuss things before reverting to "your" variants: there might be flaws in your understanding of things. But in this case, even a discussion wasn't necessary: I gave the sufficient references, and if you respected this contribution and paid attention to what was meant, you would see the reason for the correction.--Imz (talk) 14:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote: "the fact that it's unnecessary to source every transcription we make of Russian words". Now it's evident it's not true. Simply because these transcriptions caused ths discussion. I was sure the notes with references make a contribution to the ease of verification, because, as a reader, I would find these notes helpful even to me, a native Russian speaker: these words are not in my active lexicon, and a link to a respected dictionary is very handy in this case, if I want to be sure about the transcriptions.--Imz (talk) 15:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That the modern form is мыслите reenforces what I said about the pronunciation. If you're trying to say that the stress is on the middle syllable then it would be [mɨˈsʲlʲe.tʲɪ] (notice where I've put the stress marker). Again, this is only for modern pronunciation; if we're going to do non-modern pronunciation, we'll have to do a lot of research. Also, you said "that's not 'my' source..." but it's the source you're using, so in that sense it is your source. Either way, the source that you are using seems to contradict the understanding of Russian phonology that I've seen everywhere in the literature I've read (unless you simply overlook the movement of the stress marker). If you say that these are uncommon words (which I didn't know before hand) then I can see how that would justify citing the pronunciations of these words and not others. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 02:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote: "If you're trying to say that the stress is on the middle syllable then it would be [mɨˈsʲlʲe.tʲɪ] (notice where I've put the stress marker)". Absolutely. Just notice where I put the stress marker: [1], [2].

That's not what only I am trying to say, that's how it is written in the dictionary and I wanted to contribute this knowledge to the article, because it would make it better.--Imz (talk) 17:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And a general note that is not relevant for our "conflict" (although I do not see any conflict, just a neglect to read from your side), but which refutes the statement in your reply. You wrote: "That the modern form is мыслите reenforces what I said about the pronunciation". No, the modern spelling couldn't reenforce your point, because what you did was just quote the common knowledge about Russian phonology+phonetics (the reduction), but Russian spelling is not designed to reflect the reduction processes. So, wherever the modern spelling or the Church Slavonic spelling have emerged from, it wasn't from the reduction laws you cited.--Imz (talk) 18:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote: "Also, you said "that's not 'my' source..." but it's the source you're using". I wanted to say that it has also been the authoritative source for most people dealing with Russian. --Imz (talk) 18:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

CfD nomination of Category:Chemistry images that should be in SVG format[edit]

I have nominated Category:Chemistry images that should be in SVG format (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. Ludwigs2 02:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agreed.--Imz (talk) 17:03, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Russian phonology[edit]

this edit you suggest consulting a dictionary in regards to the stress placement of ржаветь. However, both my own Oxford dictionary and this online dictionary indicate ржаветь is stressed on the first syllable; I'm also pretty sure that Lightner (1972), my source for the information, has it stressed as such as well. Both you and another apparently native speaker seem to disagree. Could this be a difference between Standard Russian and more dialectal forms? In this edit you suggest consulting a dictionary, but I can't really find anything that helps out in this regard. The point of the example is to show alternations between nominative (masculine) and agentive case--which doesn't make sense at this point because of what agentive means, but could actually mean "genetive" or an indication of an agent noun. Perhaps you could show me how горбун is declined. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 09:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My reply--Imz (talk) 20:03, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the links. I'll definitely use that website more often, especially when I want to see conjugated verbs and declined nouns. Your theory regarding the change in stress makes sense. Taking a second look at my Oxford dictionary I see that the Russian-to-English section, has first-syllable stress but the English-to-Russian section has second-syllable stress (so it contradicts itself in this regard). One possibility is to pick one stress as far as the example goes and then, in the notes section, mention the variation.

I admit that my ability to conjugate and declinate is not up to par, but I'm pretty sure that I faithfully copied the examples from Lightner (1972), who I'm pretty sure was a proficient in both. So it wasn't based on my poor declination skills but that of Lightner. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 22:50, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote: "One possibility is to pick one stress as far as the example goes and then, in the notes section, mention the variation." Sure, if it looks nicer I have nothing against.

As regards the other variant (the non-mine) ржАветь: even if I force myself to make this stress, I can't imagine how to conjugate it with this stress. So I would be curious to know how the people who put the stress like this conjugated it.--Imz (talk) 18:20, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

re Lightner: he used the strange term agentive case, which is completely unclear in its meaning with respect to Russian, os it was an indication that this point should be checked and re-written in standard terms.--Imz (talk) 18:32, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote: "I'll definitely use that website more often, especially when I want to see conjugated verbs and declined nouns.". So here are the useful links: the description of the "Russian Dictionaries and Morphology" subsite, the query form for Russian words.--Imz (talk) 18:37, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

test[edit]

without sig

acute accent on russian keyboard[edit]

Hello Imz. At x.org I opened a request to add an acute accent to the russian keyboard layout. Since I have seen that you contributed to Russian_alphabet, would you please be so kind to state your opinion of how and where an acute accent would make most sense. TIA, Helge--Hhielscher (talk) 14:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Not having time to read all the discussion there, for now, I can say that I would like very much if there were a kind of combining acute accent in the layout. (But I'm not really sure that it is actually absent from the current layouts; perhaps, perhaps I just have not learned how to use it.) I'm certainly against putting the accented characters along with other, occupying additional keys (like for German umlauts) or sacrificing an additional "shift"-level/group to accents. Just a combining character would be all what we need.--Imz (talk) 15:43, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Imz for your answer. Where would you add the combining acute? The only "free" keys are /.\=- Another alternative might be to change ё/Ё to a dead key with ´/¨ (Acute/Umlaut).--Hhielscher (talk) 10:42, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

/.\=- -- how many keys do you mean here? Of course, not \ or -, these are very much needed keys. But perhaps / could suit your wish (you don't usually enter Unix paths in Russian). And it looks like an acute accent.

Changing ё/Ё to a dead key with ´/¨ (Acute/Umlaut) is non-sense. There are no regular umlauts in Russian, and ё shouldn't be entered by two presses because of some strange idea to represent it with an umlaut.

But can't it be something like Alt+' or Alt+/? (Well, it seems, there's no ' in the Russian layout, its key in the English layout is occupied by э in the Russian one, so it doesn't suit our goal: Alt+э could be a hotkey.) So, the second variant: Alt + the key for \/.--Imz (talk) 11:56, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alt+/\ can be shortcuts as well. And it could only work at a desktop level, not for keyboard layouts directly, there's (AFAIK) only Shift, AltGr or Compose. Mhm, difficult. P.S.: /.\=- are five keys.--Hhielscher (talk) 14:39, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote: P.S.: /.\=- are five keys. Then I don't understand you. . is occupied by ю. / is occupied by . . You couldn't suppress these things.--Imz (talk) 14:50, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This one is easy, on my russian layout: / is on the left of я, . is right of ю, \ right of э, - and = right of 0.--Hhielscher (talk) 15:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, if you were talking only about the Russian "plane", then we have differences: I have \ and / on the same key in the Russian mode.--Imz (talk) 15:37, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote: there's (AFAIK) only Shift, AltGr or Compose. OK, let it be AltGr, simply, on the keyboards in Russia they are not visually distinguished. (Also, I think, that's not completely true that you can't assign something to Alt+KEY on the X level, perhaps, just requiring more efforts in the currently existing layout specifications.)--Imz (talk) 14:54, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My assumption was, that only people working with Russian language in depth would need and use the accents. Am I wrong about it? AltGr (3rd level) could be assigned to a custom key (e.g. right alt, or one of the windows keys).--Hhielscher (talk) 15:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, so use whatever special modifier you find to be better. Doesn't using AltGr fit your assumption that it's only for very few special people? I don't object to any special modifier + \/, but I'm against, say, throwing ё away, or another useful "one-press" symbol away.

At http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2793#c27 Sergey V. Udaltsov suggested to change "Shift-2". I need to think about it.--Hhielscher (talk) 15:23, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For me, Shift-2 prints " in the Russian mode. Loosing it doesn't seem nice (unless there are the good double angle quotes somewhere, but they aren't). If you were to use Shify + a number key, then I'd prefer Shift+3 (produces № for me), not that I often use this symbol.--Imz (talk) 15:37, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I believe, there is no big need for the following symbols in the Russian mode, so their value can be replaced by the stress code: _ (underscore = Shift + -), * (but this is used in wiki syntax, so not a good idea for us). (Also posted to User_talk:Hhielscher#Russian_word_stress_symbol.)--Imz (talk) 23:04, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of language subsystems[edit]

I have had a look at List of language subsystems, and I must admit that I don't know what you intended the page to be. I've added an 'expert' tag to the page, and hope that someone from WP:WikiProject Theoretical Linguistics will adopt it. Can you also have another look at the WP:Lead section and try to make clearer what sort of subsystems should be listed? Cheers, Cnilep (talk) 21:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What I meant is more clear from my revision than from the current one: [3] (sociolinguistic "subsystems").--Imz (talk) 23:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:IAST1[edit]

Template:IAST1 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:29, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of language subsystems[edit]

Hello, Imz. You created the page List of language subsystems back in 2005. It was not clear to me what sort of subsystems you had in mind. I have rewritten the page with links to phonetics, phonology, morphology, syntax, semantics, and pragmatics, which are often discussed as subsystems of linguistic study. They are not, however, systems of communication, which your original page referred to. Your contributions to the page or at Talk: List of language subsystems would be most welcome. Happy editing, Cnilep (talk) 19:08, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Per your suggestion above, I'm also not sure what you mean by sociolinguistic subsystems, despite my training in sociolinguistics. Your original version mentioned Abstandsprache, Ausbausprache, and Dachsprache. Do you regard these as systems? Cnilep (talk) 19:12, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, of course. These can be called by the vague word "language", hence, "systems".

Thank you for attention to my intention. I'll try to make it clearer what I meant.

What I meant was something like the term "idiom" (list of kinds of idioms) , as it is known in French or Russian sociolinguistics. cf.:

Идио́м — получивший распространение в лингвистике XX века обобщающий термин для естественно-языковой знаковой системы; объединяет понятия язык, диалект, говор, социолект и др. Используется для того, чтобы подчеркнуть общие свойства всех этих систем, или же в спорных случаях, когда дискуссионен сам вопрос «язык или диалект?» (такая ситуация возникает весьма часто).

Un fr:idiome est l'ensemble des moyens d'expression (langage, modes de pensée) d'une communauté donnée, relatif à un domaine d'activité spécifique de cette communauté. Une même communauté peut s'exprimer dans plusieurs idiomes plus ou moins disjoints suivant leurs différentes activités.
L'idiome est un attribut du couple (communauté spécifique, activité spécifique). Suivant ces communauté et ces activités, peuvent être considérés comme des idiomes ce que l'on nomme par : langue, langage, jargon, parler, dialecte, patois, sabir, argot, etc.

Here, I highlighted the expressions in the definitions corresponding to the notion system (система, ensemble) as well as the enumerated designations of the various known "kinds" of idioms (see the bold lists in the quotations).--Imz (talk) 23:55, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your more detailed reply. I work on editing the page. Cnilep (talk) 17:10, 29 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Arabic script[edit]

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