User talk:Ayesart

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Your submission at Articles for creation[edit]

Ancestry of Juan Ponce de Leon, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

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Kevin Rutherford (talk) 20:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From Ayesart to all who have enhanced The Ancestry Of Juan Ponce de Leon[edit]

Hi: I'd like to thank everyone who added URL's to the article, Ancestry of Juan Ponce de Leon. Being new to Wiki there is a lot I have to learn about navigation within its pages.

Regarding the length of the article:

1: It is an essay on the complex genealogy and history of Juan Ponce de Leon, his ancestors and if I were to include of his descendants it would turn into a book which I have already written. Yes, the "article is too long" but this is necessary in understanding Juan Ponce de Leon, the man.

Thanks again.

Ayesart (talk) 14:24, 4 April 2012 (UTC)John Browne Ayes, aka, AyesartAyesart (talk) 14:24, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ayesart11@aol.com

Origin of the Ponce de León lineage[edit]

I've reverted your edition in the article on the Ancestry of Juan Ponce de León. This lineage does not descend from Ponce de Minerva. On the talk page of the article I've added bibliography plus you can also check the respective articles on Vela Gutiérrez, Sancha Ponce de Cabrera, Ponce Giraldo de Cabrera, etc and respective sources. Regards, --Maragm (talk) 05:32, 13 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You may not know this, but I am the documented 27th great grandson of the Adelantado Juan Ponce de Leon. I am also a historian as well as a genealogist.abrera My family tree includes one of the most extensively researched and documented tree on the Ponce de Leon. The ancestry of the Ponce de Leon does indeed have its roots within the Ponce de Minerva family line.

The arguements put forth that the Ponce de Leon line stem from the Ponce de Cabrera line is in error. That error was coming out of the Ministry of Culture Spain when one of their archivists mis interpreted the name of Fernan Perez Ponce to de Cabrera instead of de Minerva. I have several images of the Ponce de Minerva crests and those images indicate and confirm that Fernan Perez Ponce was in fact a de Minerva and not a de Cabrera. I also have a copy of a document that lists individuals that were interred within the Ponce de Minerva sepulcher. The document states that Fernan Perez Ponce was the son of Pedro Ponce de Minerva and that Fernan was the grandson of Ponce de Minerva not Ponce de Cabrera.

I have taken the task upon myself to correct the many misconceptions and errors that have surrounded the Ponce de Leon family line. As a matter of fact my book, Juan Ponce de Leon His New And Revised Genealogy has been selling off the shelves in England as well as here in the USA. That alone indicates that my work is considered to be a valuable contribution to the history of this family group. May I suggest that you do not interfere with my work, again by inserting erroneous data concerning the Ponce de Cabrera.

Respectfully,

John J. Browne y Ayes, aka Ayesart.----

Nomination of Ancestry of Juan Ponce de León for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ancestry of Juan Ponce de León is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ancestry of Juan Ponce de León until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Maragm (talk) 13:13, 20 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Re your comments in the facebook page on your book[edit]

Wrong genealogies, based on outdated sources or research limited to Pares: Martín Gómez de Silva married (first name could be Urraca, Teresa or María) daughter of Rodrigo Fernández de Toroño (son of Fernando Arias Baticela and Teresa Vermúdez de Traba) and Aldonza Pérez (daughter of Pedro “Corna” Muñoz) (Source Salazar y Acha “Descendientes del conde Ero Fernández" based on charters from various monasteries and other primary sources) ...he was not a Cabrera. Ponce de Minerva and his wife Estefanía Ramírez (not a Trava, she was the daughter of count Ramiro Froilaz, señor de Cifuentes and his wife Sancha Rodríguez) did not have any daughter named Elvira. Their only two daughters were María (married to count Rodrigo Álvarez de Sarria) and Sancha (married to Pedro García de Aza) both documented in cartularies. Onomastics were very important and Ponce’s children would carry the patronymic Ponce, never Ramírez). Check articles on Ramiro Froilaz, Rodrigo Álvarez Estefanía Ramírez, Pedro Ponce de Cabrera and Ponce Giraldo de Cabrera in wiki, all sourced (check the bibliography used, many works have been written on these characters.)

Most importantly, check the "Colección documental del Monasterio de San Esteban de Nogales (1149-1498)" where you can see that Aldonza Alfonso de León (see article on her in es.wiki) made a donation to the monastery stating the following:

"Conuscuda cosa sea a todos cuantos esta carta vieren como yo doña Aldonza Alfonso do por la alma de don Pedro Ponce de Cabrera, mio marido, que jace sepultado en el monasterio de Nogales, en la capilla del señor San Benito e en remisión de mis pecados….” (Let it be known to whomever reads this charter how I, doña Aldonza Alfonso, make this donation for the soul of Pedro Ponce de Cabrera, my husband, who is buried in the chapel of Saint Benito, and for the remission of my sins” I guess she knew her husband’s name. See article on Pedro Ponce de Cabrera in en.wiki where you can also read about the epitaph carved on her tomb as reported by Manrique:

HIC IACET SERENISSIMA INFANS DOMINA ALDONCIA ALFONSI, ALFONSI NONI LEGIONIS REGIS FILIA, CONIVX DOMINI PETRI PONCII DE CABRERA, FILII COMITIS D. PONCII VELA, NEPOTIS ILLVSTRIVM ET MAGNIFICORVM FVNDATORVM HVIVS CCOENOBII. OBIIT CIRCA ANNOS CHRISTI. M. CC. LX. VI. CVM RECENS SACRATA ESSET NOVA ECCLESIA

Your only sources seem to be Pares and Salazar y Mendoza (16th-17th century, not bad but a lot of new research and documents, especially un cartularies have been found and studied since then). There is no doubt that the Ponce de León come from Pedro Ponce de Cabrera and not from Ponce de Minerva. --Maragm (talk) 21:57, 25 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Found an interesting article in the magazine Hidalguía, no. 349, published in 2011: "Aberraciones genealógicas de Puerto Rico y sus posibles soluciones". Check pages 807 and 809, section "La ignorancia es atrevida". Cheers, --Maragm (talk) 19:52, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]