Talk:Tinkoff (cycling team)

Failed GA

This was very close to the standard for passing as GA in most respects - it is well-referenced, has balanced POV, well-illustrated, images have appropriate tags (great examples of photography by Wikipedians) and well-structured. It didn't read as well as it could have done, and I have given it a pretty extensive copy-edit so hopefully it is better now. There is a word in here that I expect is either mistranslated or untranslated - "classement". If somebody could sort that out (if it's a technical cycling term, could somebody include a description) and renominate it, I expect it should pass as a GA next time round. There's some excellent work here, are all cycling team articles this good? TheGrappler 14:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the pointers (as well as those left on my talk page!) and the copy-editing. I'll take a stab at explaining the classement (it is another (probably French) word for "classification" (as in General Classification), and is used interchangeble as jargon). I'll do some editing.. Poulsen 15:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Shame missed GA, sure to pass next time. Classement is French, and is used widely in cycling circles by English-speakers (and Scandinavian language speakers too, I think). I would not bother translating or explaining it. That is the beauty of Wiki links: just link to the GC article, and readers can seek their own enlightenment! Just make sure that classement is explained over there. --Mais oui! 17:10, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I am afraid that may be my ignorance coming through ;) But ... this isn't written for cycling enthusiasts alone, and I suspect I would not have been unknown in having difficulty with the word. (As it turned out, it meant what I guessed it did, but I would prefer not having to guess at all!) Usually WP:POPUP allows me to deal with the problem of terms and people I am not familiar with (even better that clicking on the link, just hover over it - genius!) but it didn't help in this case. I think it's benefitted from the rewrites, it reads much easier now. In its current state I believe it is highly likely to pass as a GA, before the recent edits I think most people would agree that it failed "well-written". The new lead is a big improvement. TheGrappler 17:25, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

In Danish at least it's klassement. I tried to fit classement in there, but defining three terms (General Classification, GC and Classement) as the same thing seemed too much, so I left it with the two first options and deleted classement.. I'll go ahead and renom. Poulsen 17:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

No apart from the articles closely related to Tour de France and Lance Armstrong, road bicycle racing articles tend to be kind of stubish. A number of articles are actually just translations from the other European language wikis.--Per Abrahamsen 17:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Pass

I corrected a few spellings and now see nothing to stop this being a "Good Article". Congratulations. SeanMack 07:52, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Hurrah!--Per Abrahamsen 14:08, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Cervelo

Does anyone know when CSC began using Cervelo bikes? --Bicycle repairman 17:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I found an old article from B.T. (tabloid) saying Cervelo started sponsoring before the 2003 season. Peugeot was a sponsor in 1998 and 1999. They were sponsored by Vitus in 2000[1], but switched to Look before the 2000 Tour[2] (search for Vitus), and then the Cervelo in 2003. Be aware though, that from time to time, the team has used bikes from other companies than their sponsors, and have just put a name sticker on the frames. Poulsen 19:10, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm now reading the guy's Tour diary - very interesting :) --Bicycle repairman 21:40, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Notable wins

I removed some stage wins from 2.HC races, I believe these should be in the subpage (there are too many of those).--Per Abrahamsen 08:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree - perhaps a small introductory note before the table would be in order, explaining that only wins in World Cup races, Grand Tour stages (and overall), as well as overall ProTour races (not stage wins) are included.

I'm in doubt as whether or not HC wins (only overall, not stages) should be included, as it seems weird to list the 2005 but not the 2004 Paris-Nice win.. Poulsen 23:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

The jersey that there are showed to the right isn't there acutally jersey. --87.48.113.174 21:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

New Managing Director

Is there an appropriate place to mention the new managing director, Trey Greenwood? It seems like a significant change for the team. He is former managing director and part owner of Form Fitness / SATS and also part owner. http://www.team-csc.com/ny_news.asp?n_id=1626&lang=uk If I don't get any feedback, I'd like to add a sentence. Greenw47 (talk) 14:02, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

No objections so far, so I'll add a short sentence. Greenw47 (talk) 14:15, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

www.riis-cycling.com replace host name

I replaced all links to www.team-csc.com with www.riis-cycling.com in this article, as the former name is no longer in dns. However, there are many other such links on other articles. Anyone know how to make a global search and replace?--Per Abrahamsen (talk) 09:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Team Saxo Bank/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

I will be doing a GA Reassessment of this article as part of the GA Sweeps project.

There are several dead links in the article's reference section: 6, 10, 27, and 23. More to come. H1nkles (talk) 15:54, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

The tables appear to be sporadically referenced. I note 3 references under the "Sports Directors" table but only for 2007, what about the previous years? I see 2 references for the "Prominent past staff" table but only for Ivan Basso and Jakob Piil, what about the rest? There are no references for notable wins. Even though there is a link to the Team CSC wins list, there should be an in-line citation and reference in this article. H1nkles (talk) 16:05, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

The 2003-2008 CSC Team section is sparsely referenced, I count two in-line citations with a dead link at the end of the section. This should be better referenced, especially since it covers 6 years of the team's history.

The 2006 sub section is also lacking in-line citations. While there are more than in the previous section, there are several assertions that are unreferenced. I added a template to one paragraph but more could be added. H1nkles (talk) 18:55, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

The 2007 season sub section is not referenced at all.

Overall there are some issues with the references. Also I note that the language is the 2008 sub section should be updated. Finally the team won the 2008 Tour De France and team leader Carlos Sastre won the GC, yet nothing is mentioned in the text of the article, and only an entry in the Notable Wins table tells the reader that this momentous event in team history even ocurred. Since winning the Tour de France is the pinnacle of any team's history I think a section on the race is necessary for comprehensiveness. I will hold the article for a week to allow for fixes. Please contact me on my talk page if you have any questions. H1nkles (talk) 19:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for not getting on to this sooner - if you can extend beyond seven days I will try to get onto this in the upcoming days. Seems like most of the problems is in referencing from 2003. Shouldn't be too difficult as loads of links on line for this. I'm not a big fan of the "Prominent past staff" section - seems somewhat pejorative and already covered in the prose so how about cutting this section out? Likewise with the "Sports Directors" section. Severo^TC 21:40, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good I'll extend the hold until the 28th, I leave on vacation for 2 weeks after that, if you need longer than to the 28th that's fine I just won't be able to finish the review until I return. I'm all for removing "Prominent past staff" for exactly the reason you stated. The biggest hole that I found in the article is that it does not mention the team's 2008 Tour de France win. I think a section on the 2008 Tour would be appropriate. Thanks for taking on the fixes. H1nkles (talk) 15:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I see that work has been done to address my concerns. I still feel that the coverage of the team's success in the 2008 Tour De France is underdeveloped and should be improved. But I think there is enough here to keep as GA. Thank you for the work. H1nkles (talk) 06:17, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

2008 and 2009 are both sparse. I'm working on them but don't find much wiki-time available atm :( Thanks for the review and the comments. Severo^TC 10:56, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Sørensen's nationality

I sent Sørensen (or whoever responds to messages sent to chris@chrisanker.dk ) an email asking in English and web-translated Danish (hopefully one or the other will make sense to him!) whether the reports of him riding as a Luxembourger this season are true. Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 01:10, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Although the metaphorical horse's mouth ought to be reliable, and I wouldn't revert your edit based on his word, it remains open to challenge on the basis of RS, as receipt of an e-mail can't be verified. The UCI site ought to be authoritative, but is often lacking: cyclingnews is good, but far from error free, and the team site, although it has at least been updated for this season which is more than can be said for some, has a vested interest in his Danishness. That UCI ruling does seem odd though, if cyclingnews have it right: very few op level cyclists who are not from western mainland Europe live in their country of origin: the Katusha site lists the residence of its riders. On the evidence of that, Botcharov will have to re-register as French, Kolobnev as Spanish, Pliushin as Swiss, Petrov as Italian, etc Kevin McE (talk) 10:37, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm not necessarily expecting a reply at all. The email link is the only content of his website - it appears to have fallen into a bit of disrepair. It's possible no one checks the box, but I figured it was worth a try. Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 22:22, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Recent revisions about 2011

It's a bit sad that there has been lots of reversions of this page but no discussion here (the appropriate place) about them. The question is, how much information should go in the article, and what of that should be displayed in the infobox. I find it a bit strange to list a future team name in the infobox under "team name history" and it implies we know for sure what the team name will be: we don't, we only know that it has been announced and this is all we can write in the article. The infobox is a too blunt an object to write that in. As for the rider transfers, no one has moved team yet, but I think it may be worth mentioning that the Schleck's are leaving and Contador has signed - but nothing more than that. Thanks, Severo^TC 21:00, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

I would argue that transfers are best dealt with on the season articles: certainly this is the convention in football team articles. The signng of Contador might be exceptional enough to break the mould, but there is a lot of recentism in the suggestion that Schlecks going needs to be mentioned: no-one has ever complained that the article lacks encyclopaedic thoroughness by not documenting the circumstances over Basso and Sastre leaving. Kevin McE (talk) 21:40, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Basso's exit from the team should be mentioned, due to his involvment in operation puerto, so that might be something to look into in the future. The facts the no one hasn't complained on the encyclopaedic thoroughness, shouldn't come in the way of mentioning the transfers of the Schleck-brothers.

Regarding the "team name history", it is almost 100% certain, that the team is named Team Saxo Bank-SunGard in 2011. Both note 3 in the article and this http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/teamsaxobanksungard.com should make that apparent. Therefore, in my opinion, there should be no problem in posting it in the infobox. Tøndemageren (talk) 23:11, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

You avoid my point about the use of the infobox. The field is for past names, and it is too blunt a tool to explain future probable names. The fact that Riis has registered a domain name means absolutely nothing about what the team name will be - it suggests his current thinking and that he doesn't want anyone else to have that name, nothing more. Severo^TC 05:30, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

The infobox, although it says history, could also be used to show what the name of the team is going to be. You should take a look at note #3 in the article too and that, together with the domain name, should be a pretty good indicator of what the name is going to be - therefore i see no harm in writing this. And please elaborate why an official announcement is not good enough for you? Tøndemageren (talk) 09:15, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

My central point, that the infobox is too blunt, stands as it implies things that will definitely happen rather than things that are planned to happen. We don't know for sure what the name of the team will be, or for sure that Contador will ride for them. All we can write is that Contador has signed and other announced plans. This is where prose is better. The domain name issue isn't helpful - it hardly qualifies as a reliable source and so we can ignore it. Severo^TC 09:25, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Notable wins

I suggest to make the "notable wins" section more similar to the "major results" sections of the other ProTour teams. That means a list of the victories, of the podiums in the main World Tour races, and flag icons for the national championships. LegendK (talk) 21:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress

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