Talk:Tahir Allauddin Al-Qadri Al-Gillani

Lack of References and Reputability

This article lacks references and any reputability whatsoever. I've had to remove many bias titles. I removed many dead links and references and what is left of the article is now pretty much based upon one reference, and that reference seems kind of unreliable too. Need some help. ----  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  21:47, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

This article needs some serious revamp soon, as it claims that the subject is the '28th Descendant of Prophet Mohammad'. ----  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  21:50, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

This article is based on several references which include;

Tazkira Tul Qadiria ( Published by Darbar e Ghousia, Al-Gillani Road, Quetta, Pakistan) First Edition: 1970 Second Edition: January 1998 Third Edition: December 1998 Printed by: Minhaj-ul-Quran International Printers, Model Town, Lahore

Shajara e al-Gillani Baghdadi (Published by Darbar e Ghousia Baghdad Shareef) Geneology of Shaykh Syed Abdul Qadir Gillani and his Descendants

Qudwatul Awliya Pir Sayyidina Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani A Collection of Speeches delivered by Professor Dr Muhammad Tahir ul Qadri on the life history of Sayyidina Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani al-Qadri al-Baghdadi on the occasion of their annual URS Aniversary at Darbar-e-Ghousia, Baghdad Town, Lahore —Preceding unsigned comment added by DarbareGhousia (talk • contribs) 13:08, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

But sir, Wikipedia requires on-line references. References that can be viewed here. ----  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  00:15, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

All of the reference found are bias. Besides one of them, (Reference [6]) in which I've found no name of the son of Tahir Alauddin... Please find better sources and reputable references. --  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  00:21, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

The references I have given are from the main official biography of Syedna Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani which has been endorsed by his family and close-followers. I dont see the problem as the majority of articles on Wikipedia on religious figures are taken from OFFICIAL Biographies written and compiled by their followers. It would be best if you could give me which areas of this article are causing a concern to you, so I can try to give you more information or more reference leads. You raised an objection to Syedna Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani being the 28th descendant of Prophet Muhammad; when in the article the full geneology has clearly been mentioned and can be verified from many sources both in the east and the west. The Grandfather of Syedna Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani was AlSyed Abdul Rehman Mehadh, who was also prime minister of Iraq Reference 6 - exact link is http://www.na.gov.pk/h_mna_details.html. Alternatively you can google their name and you will be given a few links to their profile as MNA —Preceding unsigned comment added by DarbareGhousia (talk • contribs) 02:32, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, I didn't raise an objection on him being a descendant of the Prophet (saw), however, I said that it is claimed that he is the 28th descendant of the Prophet (saw) and if it is as such, then there should be more references and reputable sources regarding him. I, however do not doubt that he may be a descendant. -  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  02:38, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

The issue that I have raised is, that this article requires more reputable sources. You've obviously helped with that and made it a bit better, but the article needs more reputable sources, rather than sources directly from the representative sites, as it does seem bias.

Wikipedia shouldn't be used for publicity, hence, representatives from the organization or party of the subject should contribute, and let uninvolved editors contribute. And you address him as 'Syedna' which I suppose is a sign of reverence, hence I suppose you may have bias views regarding him. -  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  02:43, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I understand your concern but we are not using Wikipedia for publicity purposes. Just trying to give an accurate and neutral outline of the life of Al-Syed Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani al-Qadri who was acknowledged by ALL Sufis of the 20th Century.

Just to points to clear:

1. Al-Syed, Al-Gillani and Al-Qadri is part of their actual name. This can be seen in the official Genealogy Chart published from Darbar-e-Ghousia Baghdad Shareef or in official records in Iraq or Pakistan. These are family names that have been used from the time of Al-Syed Abu Muhammad Abdul Qadir Gillani to the present day; including their sons (Al-Syed Mahmood Mohyuddin al-Gillani al-Qadri, Al-Syed Abdul Qadir Jamaluddin al-Gillani al-Qadri and Al-Syed Muhammad Ziauddin al-Gillani al-Qadri) and Grandsons

2. Shezada-e-Ghous ul Wara, Qudwatul Awliya, Shaykh ul Mashaikh, Naqeeb ul Ashraaf Pir Syedna Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani al-Qadri al-Baghdadi are the honorifics he is known as. If you think this is incorrect then please give your reasons

3. Naqeeb ul Ashraaf is an official title given to the head of the Syed Families in Iraq and the custodian of the Shrine of Shaykh Al-Syed Abdul Qadir Gillani. I think you need to do some research into this title...

4. I dont get the problem with using the word Pir. If someone has received authorisation from his Shaykhs (spiritual guide) then he is worthy of this title just like if someone has a phd degree, he can use the Dr title before his name. I have also linked the word 'Pir' to give the actual wikipedia page explaining it

5. I added some new information about the birth of their fifth grandson named Al-Syed Yahya Shamsuddin al-Gillani al-Qadri and removed the information about the daughter of Al-Syed Mahmood Mohyuddin al-Gillani al-Qadri as it is un-confirmed.

6. I added some more information about Pir Syed Khalid Ali Tahiri Qadri who is linked to Al-Syed Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani al-Qadri.

I understand your concern but it would be much better if you first did your own research in the life of this personality and gave proper reasons to why you are editing/removing certain sections and claiming that is is 'biased'. Everything in the article is 100% accurate and if you disagree, you should talk about which parts you disagree with and give your reasons because it appears as you just vandalising the article. It would be better if you did some research into their life

-- Please add your signature above.  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  01:01, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I understand why you've added 'Al-Syed', however, I disagree with what you say regarding his honorifics or what you said regarding 'Pir'. These titles or honorifics don't need to be stated here, as they are something that the public who may follow him, address him by. However, those who don't follow him, wouldn't address him of his "honorifics" as they are known to his followers and he may be addressed with them due to their beliefs, and this does not mean that the honorifics used to address him are acceptable to all.

You may add 'Al-Syed' to the names needed, however, I do not think that the honorifics of anyone should be added, so I suggest that you remove them, and if not I could do the labour, however, I am not "vandalizing" the article, I'm editing the article as to my understanding.  Nasir | ناصر یونس  have a chat  00:49, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

With all due respect, I find your understand very poor. You have removed the section on spiritual deputies and famous disciples which is a very crucial part of the life of Al-Syed Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani as it gives details to their achievements. The achievements of a Sufi are mainly reflected from their disciples/students and those who are their spiritual deputies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DarbareGhousia (talk • contribs) 21:55, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

My understanding may be "poor", but, those sections do not have any citations, and the citations that may be provided are from bias sites, such as 'Darbareghousia UK' etc. I'd refrain from posting any such "information" until proper citations are found. --  Nasir | ناصر یونس  chat?  01:48, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Most Biographies of Religious Figures (including Prophets and Sufi Saints) are taken from Biased sources (books and speeches of their followers etc) however there is nothing objectionable posted in this article and if there is, then please go ahead and name them

I posted a Youtube Video of the son of Al-Syed Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani al-Qadri al-Baghdadi authorising Pir Syed Khalid Ali Tahiri Qadri as the official representative and spiritual deputy in the west. I don't see the problem with putting a link to this video, as it completely backing the claim made in the spiritual deputies section —Preceding unsigned comment added by DarbareGhousia (talk • contribs) 10:59, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Could Nasir Younis please discuss what he means by 'constructive edit, as the section removed is not well cited and verifiability is not up to its potentiality'. The Spiritual Deputies section is being removed for no apparent reason.

Pir Syed Khalid Ali Tahiri Qadri is the Spiritual Deputy (Khalifah) of Al-Syed Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani al-Qadri; and anyone who has basic knowledge on Tassawwuf will know that the Spiritual Deputy is one of the greatest achievement and milestones in the life of a Sufi Shaykh (For example Abu Bakr Siddiq is the Khalifah of Prophet Muhammad, Amir Khusro is the Khalifah of Nizamuddin Awliya, Khawaja Ghareeb Nawaz is the Khalifah of Khawaja Usman Harooni etc and so on). I have provided video reference (Youtube Link) of Al-Syed Muhammad Ziauddin al-Gillani al-Qadri (the Youngest Son of Al-Syed Tahir Allauddin al-Gillani al-Qadri) acknowledge Pir Syed Khalid Ali Tahiri Qadri as their Fathers Sole Spiritual Deputy in the west and inaugrating DarbareGhousia Qadiria Tahiria UK). Could everyone please refrain from 'vandalising this page' unless they can PROVE anything inaccurate in this statement... Open Challenge to anyone.DarbareGhousia (talk) 22:40, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Desciple

(Ahmadvns (talk) 13:35, 1 June 2013 (UTC)) I've deleted a sentence, describing Akhtar Raza a deciple of Tahir Allauddin Al-Qadri Al-Gillani . He is a deciple of Mustafa Raza Khan .

Thanks, but what's the evidence to support that? George Custer's Sabre (talk) 13:51, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

(Ahmadvns (talk) 14:08, 1 June 2013 (UTC)) but there is no evidence also that Akhtar Raza is a deciple of Tahir_Allauddin_Al-Qadri_Al-Gillani. You can trust me, on the basis of my past records.

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia which stresses the importance of verifiability. Citations to reliable, authoritative, and neutral third-party sources are essential. Wikipedia requires them. Two good sets of Wikipedia guidelines that I have found really useful can be found HERE and HERE. Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 21:06, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

(Ahmadvns (talk) 03:33, 2 June 2013 (UTC)) Akhtar Raza is a succesor and desciple of Mustafa Raza Khan.

Please try again. These don't work. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 05:25, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

(Ahmadvns (talk) 07:06, 2 June 2013 (UTC)) Sir, can you please help me out that why these links are not working.

Dear Ahmadvns, I don't know. Try just typing out the URLs. Ie. http://... My regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 07:42, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

(Ahmadvns (talk) 10:37, 2 June 2013 (UTC)) Thanks for the help. Here is the link... http://www.taajushshariah.com/Life%20History.htm

Sorry, but this is sourced to a blog, which is inadequate as a Wikipedia source. We must not get into an edit war. Let's now wait for other editors' intervention. Best regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 11:01, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

(Ahmadvns (talk) 12:03, 2 June 2013 (UTC)) This section does not have any citation, and I'd refrain from posting any such "information" until proper citations are found.

Dear Ahmadvns, I don't want you to break the three-revert rule (which might result in a temporary edit ban), and I certainly do not want to do so myself. Let's desist from making more changes. Let's follow Wikipedia rules. Let other editors now assist us. Thanks. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 12:23, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

References

Lack of verifiability

This article has been very poorly referenced for too long. Citations to reliable, authoritative, and neutral third-party sources are essential. Wikipedia requires them. Two good sets of Wikipedia guidelines that I have found really useful can be found HERE and HERE. The information I have removed may (or may not) be true, but it is all unverified. I am removing it according to WP:BURDEN. It should not be added again without verifying it via reliable sources. Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 04:57, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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