Talk:Samuel Morse/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

Note: Morse's name and birth and death dates have been vandalized by Roonaldo10. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.84.6.150 (talk) 20:10, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Congrats Wikipedia servers, this page has endured being the first link on today's featured google search/doodle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jellyturtle (talk • contribs) 14:58, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Typo in link: there should be an l at the end of reference 8 about slavery: http://www.yaleslavery.org/WhoYaleHonors/morse.html (I would fix this but the page is protected). /<unsigned?>

Welcome to Article Hell. When unlocked this confusing article needs radical amputation of repetitive, central 'Telegraph' section & may then still require 'fact' tags. Inconsistent POV of various editors may lead to controversial & unsupported implications. Article lead makes a claim for Morse as "creator" of single-wire transmission; but the central article seems largely concerned with Morse's common fame as "inventor of the telegraph"- an apparently convoluted claim. Only "Later Life" section present the primacy and patent contoversies clearly & chronologically.

Please note the sentence: "Britain (with its British Empire) remained the only notable part of the world where other forms of electrical telegraph were in widespread use (they continued to use the needle telegraph)." - The subject phrase is strategically awkward; Is it intentional? the British Empire in this era was not a "notable part of the world" but a central & imperialist power. It's often hard to read but at worst the apparently controversial events portrayed in the article- as well as the writing- may pose questions concerning widespread practice and wholesale acceptance of American chauvinism- if not a specific "Western" expansionist myth. A fair article should give background & sources re any apparent controversy. Hilarleo ^Hey,L.E.O. 21:41, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

2004-5 review

This page needs MAJOR work. First off there's very little mention of Morses primary career as a painter, and no mention of his membership in the Hudson River School. Someone with more aret history knowledge about it should at least add a few sentences. The "Middle Years" passage is just awful. The first paragraph is nearly incomprehensible. What does it mean that Morse "adopted magnetism to electromagnetic telegraphy, and a signaling alphabet known as Morse Code in his sketchbook during conversations with Dr. Charles T. Jackson."? Why is Jackson mentioned by name? Why should we care? It also, without citation and in non-professional language, states that Morse did not invent the electric telegraph or AN electric telegraph, yet the article goes on to talk about his invention of AN electric telegraph a few paragraphs later. The second paragraph isn't much better. Aside from some very awkward language, such as telegraphs being "enhanced" rather than improved, we're confronted with the name of Claude Chappe with no context as to who he is or why we should care. If we're going to do a micro-history of telegraphy to contextualize

• File:Morse's work then we need to do it right. We jump right from a

==

"discussion of the early..."

discussion of the early optical telegraph to another, unsourced, denial of Morse's invention of the ELECTRIC telegraph. The word "ignorant" in the sentence is too judgmental. There's several mangled sentences in here. Morse doesn't acknowledge not to have "inventor have invented" the electric telegraph. Then there's another non-sequitor jump to a patent trial. In addition the section in general jumps around in time. We go from his inventing the code, to a general history of telegraphy, to his personal life in 1830, back to his work on telegraphs. In addition there seems to be very little or no talk on the page about the significance of Morse code. _{unsigned statement from 2003}

Okay I deleted the first three paragraphs from the "middle years" section. They seem to be the problematic ones. If someone wants to put that information back they should make the language much more professional and provide citations for it.

Darn. Sorry that you did that Mav. I'm going to be adding a good bit of it back, a bit at a time so that it reads better. That text is NOT a copyright violation. It's from "Hero's of the Telegraph" by Munro, which is a Project Gutenberg book. Globusz is just posting an html-ified version of the Gutenberg e-text, which the stuff you deleted was.  :-( Meanwhile, I intend to expand this article substantially over the next several weeks. (BTW - Hero's of the telegraph is extensively quoted in a LOT of the technology of communications articles... old fashioned and etc, but a lot of useful text there. It was the basis for most of the Telephone article before we started cleaning it up last year.) Rick Boatright 03:21, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC) == Much of this text is a several month old copyright violation from:

http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Telegraph/00000013.htm

Headline text

I have removed this text (it was way too long and wordy anyway). --mav

Isn't he more commonly known as Samuel F. B. Morse? -- Zoe

I'm no expert, but I don't remember ever seeing him referred to that way. Tokerboy

The official historic site at http://www.morsehistoricsite.org/morse/morse.html calls him Samuel Morse on the front page, but Samuel F. B. Morse on their biography page. -- Zoe

Actually, Samuel Finley Breese Morse is almost always referred to as Samuel F. B. Morse, or sometimes, Samuel FB Morse. [[User:Ortolan88|Ortolan88]

Agreed. IIRC the Locust Grove site names him as FB Morse on its signage and he is generally refered to as FB Morse in anything other than colloquial usage.

I have a text saying that Morse sent his first Morse code message in 1844. Greenmountainboy 00:02, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

He was born on the 27th of April. This was the day after Josh BMX was born. Who is a succesful writer. And quite surprisingly he died the day after Josh BMX died. At that precise point Josh was only 56. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abikeco (talk • contribs) 10:49, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Telegraph message was before Morse code, I have updated the page dml 00:53, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)\

thanks, i wasn't sure if that was the case. Greenmountainboy 02:14, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Mav, the old text was not a copyvio. It was from the book Heroes of the Telegraph by John Munro, available at Project Gutenberg: [1]. Lupo 14:07, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

=== intro sentence? (January 2005)==--

The revision on 18:06, 6 Jan 2005 by User:Bkell ([2]) changed the introduction from

"... was an American inventor, history and portrait painter, and is most famous for ..."

to

"... was an American inventor, historian, and portrait painter; he is most famous for ..."

This is a subtle change in meaning, and I cannot really see his contributions as historian, but his history painter role is quite clear. Shouldn't it be changed back? --Dewet 11:09, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Maybe "painter of portraits and historical scenes"? Gene Nygaard 12:40, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree that its probably the best construction. I'll change it back. --Dewet 06:07, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

you should mention F O.J Smith

He was a thorn in the side of MOrse for a long time. He may or may not have sued him over copyrights. Smith was a congressman from Maine. They were partners for a while.

"Foreign Conspiracy Against the Liberties of the United States" by Samuel FB Morse

Is this under copyright? Does anyone have access to the text?

I couldn't imagine that it's under copyright. Also I've seen historians making reference to this. i think Jill Lepore might discuss it in "A is for American" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.221.152 (talk) 23:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Morse code pic?

Do we really need that pic of the morse code at the very bottom of the article where it seems to do nothing? Thanx 69.142.2.68 15:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Catagories

Why are there revisions being made to the catagory "scottish-American"? There doesn't apear to be any discussion about it.glocks out 17:42, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Made changes on INVENTION of Telegraph

To me an inventor is someone who comes up with the science, and at least the prototype of the invention. Morse did neither. He claimed he did on his trial but no papers were put forth to back this.

My edit was as follows:

It is disputed whether Morse had invented the electrical telegraph in 1837. Joseph Henry, working what today is Princeton University, was the first with the prototype. Henry also had scientific papers, which Morse could not produce even when he was sued--Morse vs. O'Reilly. During the patent trial, Morse's lawyer claimed that the scientific papers that Morse put in writing with his own hand, were burned in a recent fire. Joseph Henry was the open source promoter of the time and Morse took advantage of the openness and patented the devices in 1837.''

The problem stems from using Britannica as a source, because they have it wrong as well. The most recent discussion on this can be taken from the new book Electric Universe : The Shocking True Story of Electricity (among many other sources) by David Bodanis.

Perhaps the distinction should also be made from the "needle" telegraph (Schilling and Wheatstone).GraemeLeggett 09:30, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

But don't books on Henry say he demonstrated his device could ring a bell at a great distance while he was still at Albany Institute before taking a job at Princeton? And I have not found a source saying that Henry devised a time-base code to send messages other than a bell ringing at a time of his choice. Certainly anyone with a code such as Morse code could have sent a message for miles with the Henry device which preceded any work by Morse. Edison 16:08, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Right now there's a line or two asserting the claim that Morse had nothing to do with the invention of the telegraph, but it's stuck in the "Trivia" section. If the topic deserves to be discussed (which isn't clear to me) then it clearly belongs somewhere else.

In any case, it's important to remember that there are several ways to define invention (just as there are several ways to define discovery). The first person to create something, who didn't do much of anything with the creation, isn't going to get a whole lot of credit. That is more likely to go to the person who successfully turned the invention from a brainstorm into something that changes the world. By that definition -- even if not by the first definition -- Morse and Bell are inventors, and Columbus is a discoverer... Paul Koning (talk)

The way to deal with your objections is to use the language carefully, with specific, well-informed technical terms (defined as appropriate), precise dates and noting or taking into consideration as well any reasonable competing claim. As long as there's an objectivity and a vocabulary there's no inherent reason we can't describe reality. Hilarleo ^Hey,L.E.O. 21:41, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Anti-Catholic

Someone (a better writer than me) should discuss Morse's Anti-Catholic viewpoints. They were nasty- he would have denied citizenship to foreign born catholics, and he disliked foreigners in general. It was this facet of his life that got him involved in politics (much to his disadvantage) running for office on the Know-Nothing ticket. I don't mean to fling mud at a man with many admirable qualities but he had a nasty side.--Saxophobia 00:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

His anti-Catholic views may have been stirred from his religious beliefs in the bible and that there were no firm foundational standards for the doctrine of the Catholic church. His religious steering though devout, may have injured his compasion for individuals of the faith. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.5.140.24 (talk) 12:09, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

And yet....

His anti-Catholicism didn't stop him from accepting specificaly Catholic decorations from foreign governments such as The Order of Isabella the Catholic from spain and The Order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus from Italy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.108.140 (talk) 21:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

2006 what God has wrought

The passage
On May 24, 1844 Morse sent the telegraph message "What hath God wrought" (a Bible quotation, Numbers 23:23) from the Supreme Court room in Washington, D.C. to his assistant, Alfred Vail, in Baltimore, Maryland.
Seems to be of interest only fans of Morse, not for an encyclopaedic overview. Any comments? --Flammingo^Parliament 14:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

WHA-?!

Where's the content?! It's blank!

Removed line about killing by a hacksaw

This seemed like vandalism and it was written by someone that had already been in trouble for vandalism, so I removed it. I couldn't find any reference to it anywhere else. If I was wrong someone should fix it with a reference. Though it seems pretty outlandish. --jdabney 01:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Do we have any evidence that Morse's body was dug out of his grave or used for science?

Grave robbers?

Do we have any evidence Morse's body was dug out of his grave or used for science?

Chaywood 12:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)Chaywood

Hardly. It was vandalism from about five days prior to your discovering it. You should have hunted through the history, because then you could have fixed it, as I just did.

This article seems to be the target for multiple vandalism efforts, and simple reversion sometimes leaves a few of them intact.

Snezzy 12:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

Just editted to remove some vandalism.

"Do not Edit this or Expect the consequences" - removed. And Section title recorrected.

--Niall9 16:07, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Clarification in Early Life Section

It is not clear in this section when the author is describing Samuel, and when Samuel's FATHER is being described. This problem begins in the first paragraph, and continues in the subsequent ones. Someone knowledgeable, please edit! Thanks!

unconventional references

There are two sets of unconventional references, and I have hidden them both. I haven't a clue which set goes to which section of text. Why does the article have dozens of parenthetical additions, they should be integrated, moved to notes, or removed. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 12:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Colt

I'm wondering about the lack of any mention concerning Samuel Colt in this article. If it were not for Colt's research into waterproofing technologies, Morse would not have been able to run telegraph cables through lakes and such. It's pretty important to note this, I would think. Howa0082 (talk) 13:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

ethnicity?

Morse is a distinctly Ashkenazi Jewish name, however it may come from other areas of Germany. From what I can tell, the guy was a christian, however I believe it would improve the article if people knew the ethnic origin of Morse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.106.237.249 (talk) 03:14, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

James' Great-Grandfather, Samuel Morse, immigrated from England to Dedham, MA in 1635. This possibly explains, but does not excuse, his support for nativism and perhaps more innocently, some of his fascination with the Pilgrim founding fathers.

What means "other areas from Germany"? Ashkenazim don't come from Germany but Eastern Europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.186.123.65 (talk) 21:55, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Inventor of the Telegraph???

After reading the article I'm a little confused about why Samuel Morse is regarded as the inventor of the telegraph. It seems from the article that Cooke and Wheatstone not only invented the first prototype, but also launched it commercially and patented it well in advance of Morse. The wiki article makes reference to a court case which Morse won to get himself declared the official inventor, but I must admit confusion over why this happened. It is entirely possible that I'm just being a little dim, and I'm sure that to people familiar with telegraphs the reason is very clear, but I'm not familiar with telegraphs and can't figure out why Cooke and Wheatstone aren't being credited with this invention rather than Morse. Help? Could someone explain what the logic was? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.213.160.228 (talk) 23:38, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

He's not the inventor, but that POV seems to be woven into the article regularly.--Flammingo^Hey 15:03, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Painting?

Morse's 'Dying Hercules' masterpiece was a sculpture but there is no mention of this and it is included in the section titles 'Painting'. Perhaps the name of this section should be 'Artist' and the fact that it was a sculpture should be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.154.24.242 (talk) 08:34, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Morse rendered "The Dying Hercules" as both a painting and a sculpture. He modeled the sculpture as a study for the painting. Saxophobia (talk) 13:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism/SPAM????

"Samuel Finley Breese Morse (April 27, 1791 – April 2, 1872) was the American creator of a single wire telegraph system and Morse code and (less notably) a painter of historic scenes. Super Mario Games <---why is this here? It links to a nintendo video game forum which has nothing to do with Morse. Someone should remove this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HLFRGRFX (talk • contribs) 13:32, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

This is Wikipedia you could just do it yourself. 205.155.5.206 (talk) 21:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Morsemere

Morsemere was named by a real estate development company in honor of Samuel F.B. Morse, inventor of the telegraph key and the Morse Code. During the middle 1800s, Mr. Morse owned vast tracts of land in the Ridgefield section of the Borough. [3] Trumanny (talk) 15:02, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Later Years

The phrase, "He was not bitter about this, though he would have appreciated more rewards for his labors," while plausible and in fact likely, is perhaps not appropriate. There's no objective test to whether he was bitter about his rewards, nor does there appear to be any documented writings or statements that indicate he should have received more recognition. While likely true, it can't be proved, and so therefore should be removed. --Bdmccray (talk) 15:35, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

This section should also mention Morse's involvement with Cyrus Field's transatlantic cable project. Morse had experimented with underwater telegraph links as early as 1842. Morse invested in the Atlantic Telegraph Company, obtained a seat on the firm's Board of Directors, and was appointed honorary "Electrician." He went to London to help test sending messages over 2,000 miles of spooled cable. Morse was involved in the initial cable-laying effort. After a few cable-laying mishaps, Field relieved Morse of direct involvement. When the first transatlantic message was successfully transmitted, Morse was hailed as well as Field. Claudeb (talk) 16:22, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

which federalists?

I just made a tentative link form "American Federalists" to Federalist_Party but I think that they were two different kinds of federalists. Could someone please clear this up? — Alexanderaltman (talk) 17:43, 18 October 2009 (UTC) hi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.153.19.101 (talk) 19:22, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

O'Reilly v. Morse

I added a reference to the Supreme Court O'Reilly v. Morse case. While it is covered in a separate Wikipedia item, its importance in this context is that the Court did not accept all Morse's claims. In the Anglo-Saxon system of binding precedents, this 160 year old decision is still important today. It survived the use of the morse code! Perhaps native English speakers still can improve my wording. I am also not sure whether the hyperlink is appropriately formatted. Rbakels (talk) 06:58, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I reformatted the link, and rephrased the concluding statement because, without reliable sourcing, it could be called into question as original research or commentary. Hertz1888 (talk) 08:00, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

References need clean-up

I was going to try and fix the references in this document, but I can't figure them out. Some use the automatic reference numbering; the article shows 13 of these. But in the underlying code there are two additional sets of reference notes. I can't figure out which match with which references. Can someone fix this? --CPAScott (talk) 13:36, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

The footnotes were removed from the body of the text in 2007, but they were only commented out in the notes section. Using a copy of the article time stamped 15:39, 4 May 2007 I have reinstated those footnotes using ref-tags. -- PBS (talk) 23:14, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

The second set of numbered sources were added on 4 May 2007 here and here. They were not references but further reading. So I am removing them as they have been commented out for years. -- PBS (talk) 23:37, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

poet??

Was Samuel also a poet? Any source? Any more details? Or is this just a jerky edit - please sort this out.Super48paul (talk) 17:39, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

slavery etc

Doesn't need to be in the intro, as this is not what he is famous for. There's a whole section later, which is all that's needed. 87.246.103.137 (talk) 15:34, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Decoration identified

In the row of medals on the Matthew Brady photo, I have confidently identified the penultimate decoration in the row as being not an Austrian order but the French Legion of Honour with the pre-republican crown. The decoration is already mentioned in the section on honours.Cloptonson (talk) 06:49, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

POV alert!

"The lack of that limitation in the latter type of claim (i.e., claim 8) both gave Morse more than was commensurate with what he had contributed to society and discouraged the inventive efforts of others who might come up with different and/or better ways to send signals at a distance using the electromagnetic force."

Unless someone can substantiate this claim, I plan to remove it promptly. NewEnglandYankee (talk) 21:44, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

See citation now inserted. Also, read the Wikipedia article. O'Reilly v. Morse. - PraeceptorIP (talk) 23:16, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the citation. I still have concerns about this phrasing. In the first place, Wikipedia can't be used to verify Wikipedia; see WP:RS and WP:CIRCULAR. In the second place, while a link to the Supreme Court decision confirms what the court said, does it confirm this interpretation? The claim that the award "gave Morse more than was commensurate with what he had contributed to society" is a value judgment. That it "discouraged the inventive efforts of others" is pretty speculative, too, as it's hard to prove what would have happened in the absence of the claim.

Don't get me wrong--I'm grateful that you're weighing in on this. Is this language or the equivalent actually in the decision? If so, it would be great to quote it directly. NewEnglandYankee (talk) 18:31, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2017

216.234.138.178 (talk) 12:34, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Samuel Morse was an inventor who invented a code called "Morse Code" named after his last name.

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Izno (talk) 12:59, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101206060406/http://lgny.org/history/col.html to http://www.lgny.org/history/col.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090903080653/http://nylatinojournal.com/home/puerto_rico_x/news_and_information/taking_the_pr_out_of_prt_3.html to http://nylatinojournal.com/home/puerto_rico_x/news_and_information/taking_the_pr_out_of_prt_3.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090911035500/http://www.ptt.gov.tr/tr/genel/etelgraf.php to http://www.ptt.gov.tr/tr/genel/etelgraf.php
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081115000710/http://www.daguerre.org/resource/texts/04-20-1839_morse.html to http://www.daguerre.org/resource/texts/04-20-1839_morse.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080518032613/http://www.daguerre.org/resource/texts/morse_cp.html to http://www.daguerre.org/resource/texts/morse_cp.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080518032916/http://www.daguerre.org/resource/texts/morse.html to http://www.daguerre.org/resource/texts/morse.html

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um, Nativist views?

What happened to this section? Morse spent much of his later life advocating separatism and white supremacy. 68.196.0.234 (talk) 03:19, 2 September 2017 (UTC) captcrisis

External links modified

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date of first demonstration of his telegraph

There are lots of sources dating it to the 6th of January instead of the 11th.--Reseletti (talk) 11:10, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Samuel Morse and Religion

I've removed a number of unsourced claims that Samuel F. B. Morse was a Unitarian from the article. I'm not sure where this idea came from, although he is numbered among the Unitarian ranks on various lists of famous Unitarians floating around the internet. Morse was a member of trinitarian Congregational churches in New England and Presbyterian churches when he lived in New York. He was a member of the executive board of the Evangelical Alliance. It would probably be worth it to document this in the article somewhere. It can be easily shown from his published memoirs..

whitti (talk) 03:47, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Total hypocrisy?

If Morse hated Catholics, why did he accept honors from Austria, Spain, Italy, and Portugal? Esszet (talk) 21:58, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 October 2019

There is a link made but the page does not exist Gaming taming (talk) 06:09, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. NiciVampireHeart 11:26, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Removal of apocryphal "motivations"

I found these two edits

This one looks like good intentions, but I found no reference to this story anywhere in the cited source https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Samuel_Morse&type=revision&diff=286534700&oldid=286528738

The next edit, changing the words, looks like subtle vandalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Samuel_Morse&type=revision&diff=331168917&oldid=331149617 especially in light of that editor's next "contribution" https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vanilla_Ice&diff=prev&oldid=340093843

Since then, someone even falsely attributed a source "lightning man" to the fabrication from the vandal edit.

Considering his wife died in 1825, and he had numerous other projects/ventures until the telegraph...while this "he did for the dead wife" is a good yarn, I just went ahead and deleted the whole passage to prevent the spread of further misinformation. If I'm wrong/someone finds an actual source that supports it, please feel free to restore Tendancer (talk) 02:33, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I just read a post on Facebook that suggests Morse invented the telegraph because the slow communications of the day delayed his return to her until after she was dead and burred. I assume this this tale is the same one. Terry Thorgaard (talk) 20:46, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 December 2021

AmericanPatriotRedVote (talk) 07:12, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Add Catagory: Category:American People of English Descent

line "His first ancestor in America was Anthony Morse, of Marlborough, in Wiltshire, who had emigrated to America in 1635, and settled in Newbury, Massachusetts.[3]" proves his English Ancestry.

 Already done. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 08:09, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

samuEl

Please correct: "Samual" to "Samuel" 79.54.90.188 (talk) 19:59, 30 September 2022 (UTC)