Talk:Loleta, California

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Name explanation?[edit]

An article on the National Geographic website (April 2009) gives the folowing explanation for the name of this town.

In 1893 Mrs. Rufus F. Herrick gave this name to a California town. She’d asked an old Wiyot man what his tribe called the place. As a joke, he replied, "Hos wiwitak—Let’s have intercourse." Not only was she clueless as to what he said, but she couldn’t keep her w’s and l’s straight.

In other words, "Loleta" comes from "Lilitak". This contradicts the explanation given in this article. - BigBadaboom0 (talk) 03:41, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wiyot Joke[edit]

The joke here is on National Geographic for picking up information from a California guidebook without fact checking. I was researched the following from primary sources and therefore reverted an edit today which read

"... 1893. An often-repeated folk etymology claims it comes from "three Wiyot words"--"lo-le-tah"-- meaning something like "pleasant place at the end of the water." However, the name actually comes from a joke that was played on one of the residents, Martha Herrick. She asked an elderly Wiyot man what the Indian name was for that area. Instead of giving her the correct name, "katawóło't", he told her it was "hóš wiwítak"--"let's have intercourse!" She interpreted the latter part in baby talk fashion as "lo-le-ta", which the town accepted for the new name.^[1] ^[2]^[3]" by User:Lila Book.

In the course of researching the above statement I found that Martha J. (nee Gist) Herrick, was born December 11, 1842 in South Bend, Indiana. She would have been 51 or 52 at the time the above allegedly occurred. Her husband, Rufus (June 8, 1828 - May 19, 1914) was instrumental in saving Indian lives at Fort Humboldt and he was well-respected by the local people both before and after settling at Table Bluff. By 1893 they had lived in Humboldt County for over 30 years in close proximity to Wiyots with whom they had a good relationship.^[4]

The Gudde book^[5] does indeed have this story, nearly word for word, and cites Karl Teeter, "Notes on Humboldt County, California, Place Names of Indian Origin," American Name Society journal Names: A Journal of Onomastics 6:55-56(1958), 7:126(1959) as the origin of the story. Mr. Teeter compiled a lexicon of Wiyot, among his many other accomplishments, however he was born in 1929 and cannot be a primary source, nor could his informant have been a primary source for the story repeated by Gudde in 1998 due to the span of time between 1893 and 1958. The last native speaker of Wiyot was interviewed by Mr. Teeter, but died in 1962 before Mr. Teeter had finished his lexicon.^[6]

Looking in older publications, including Kroeber's names from 1916^[7] also does not confirm the 'baby talk' story.

If any Wiyots were playing jokes with the name of the town, the joke may have been played on Mr. Teeter during the course of his research and is not cited in books written earlier than the late 1950s. I guess it's so much "sexier" to believe in the 'baby talk', I just don't find that the earlier or original sources bear it out. Ellin Beltz (talk) 22:19, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

^ Gudde, Erwin (1998). California Place Names, 4th Edition revised and enlarged by William Bright. Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press. pp. p. 214. ISBN 0-520-21316-5. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)
^ Bright, William (2004). Native American Placenames of the United States. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press. pp. p. 254. ISBN 0-8061-3576-X. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)
^ Teeter, Karl (1958). "Notes on Humboldt County, California, place names of Indian origin". Names. 6: 55–6.
^ "Humboldt County Biographies". Retrieved 13 September 2011. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
^ Gudde, Erwin (1998). California Place Names, 4th Edition revised and enlarged by William Bright. Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press. pp. p. 214. ISBN 0-520-21316-5. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)
^ "Wiyot News" (PDF). 6 (09). June 2009. Retrieved 13 September 2011. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help); Cite journal requires |journal= (help)
^ Kroeber, A. L. (June 15, 1916). "California Place Names of Indian Origin". University of California Publications in American Archaeology and Ethnology. 12 (3): 31–69. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

US Census Reference[edit]

I seemed to have created a duplicate reference to the US Census data. I copied the ref tags from the demographics area into the history area when I made an edit. So, now there are 2 entries in the references below. Can anyone advise me on how to consolidate or optimize the tags to avoid duplication in the References area? Thanks. Specialjake (talk) 06:44, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. I left an explanation on your talk page !! Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:31, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let's be consistent with the edit rules, shall we?[edit]

There is no cite whatsoever for the "pleasant place at the end of the tide water" name origin story. So why is it still in the article?

Also, it is not clear to me why, if Teeter interviewed the Wiyot elder who died in 1962 prior to publishing his book, that means that the Wiyot elder he interviewed can be ruled out as a source of what occurred in 1893, just because the Wiyot elder happened to pass before the book was published.

I was having trouble adding the cites, but my edit originated from this article in a local news magazine, which references the cites that you are apparently disregarding:

http://www.northcoastjournal.com/Blogthing/archives/2013/09/13/lets-have-intercourse-an-etymological-mystery

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dewbie (talk • contribs) 03:16, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The citation for "pleasant place" apparently got lost in the edit flurry to add the x-rated alleged translation for the town name. I have replaced it. I have also put a link to Teeter's article. The elder who Teeter interviewed wasn't old enough to have been alive when Loleta was named, thus the entire story is hearsay. There are recordings of native speakers saying the name of the village on the tribe's website, it doesn't sound at all like what was in the North Coast Journal article which yes, I read, but a blog-thing isn't the same as a reliable published article so I haven't cited it. Good catch on the citation missing, next time just tag it in the article! Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 07:56, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] Gudde, Erwin (1998). California Place Names, 4th Edition revised and enlarged by William Bright. Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press. pp. p. 214. ISBN 0-520-21316-5. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)

[2] Bright, William (2004). Native American Placenames of the United States. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press. pp. p. 254. ISBN 0-8061-3576-X. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)

[3] Teeter, Karl (1958). "Notes on Humboldt County, California, place names of Indian origin". Names. 6: 55–6.

[HumHist-4] "Humboldt County Biographies". Retrieved 13 September 2011. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

[Gudde-5] Gudde, Erwin (1998). California Place Names, 4th Edition revised and enlarged by William Bright. Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press. pp. p. 214. ISBN 0-520-21316-5. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)

[3-6] "Wiyot News" (PDF). 6 (09). June 2009. Retrieved 13 September 2011. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help); Cite journal requires |journal= (help)

[Kroeber-7] Kroeber, A. L. (June 15, 1916). "California Place Names of Indian Origin". University of California Publications in American Archaeology and Ethnology. 12 (3): 31–69. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

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