Talk:Gregory Palamas

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Roman Catholic Saint[edit]

As far as I can tell, Gregory is not venerated by the Roman Catholic Church, and he vehemently opposed union with Rome. Can anyone cite evidence otherwise? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.48.160.61 (talk) 15:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From what I've seen, Gregory is not on the calendar for the Latin rite, but is for the Eastern Catholic Churches. Using Roman Catholic as a term for the entire Church in union with Rome seems to be current Wikipedia policy, so as written it is correct, but very confusing. Jeff (talk) 20:41, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

However, both Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholic are listed, so the distinction should be made that the Roman Catholics other than the Eastern rite do not venerate him. It's needlessly confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.107.231 (talk) 02:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He is venerated throughout Catholicism, even if not actively, as evidenced by this site: [[1]], which is a Roman Catholic site, not an Eastern Catholic one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.194.72.243 (talk) 03:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have a RCC saint book and he is listed. I will correct this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by secisek (talk • contribs) 12:39, 24 December 2008

When Palamas was writing the eastern and western churches had not completely split. While their thoughts were slowly diverging to separate paths, there technically was not a Catholic and Orthodox church during this time, which is probably why Palamas in the saint book. I would like to do a section about his theology a bit more, due the lack of info there is in this article. Every time I have added something in a article however it has been subsequently removed, what do I have to do exactly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.136.195.217 (talk) 21:21, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please explain to me how anyone who wasn't a Roman or Eastern Catholic can be a Catholic saint? St. Gregory Palamas was an Orthodox Christian, he even defended Orthodox Theology against Western Christianity, which at that time was ROMAN CATHOLICISM. He can not legitimately be called a Roman Catholic saint, he is an Orthodox Christian Saint. Seems to me that the Romans are co-oppting Orthodox Church members. What next, all Orthodox Christians around the world will be counted in the Roman Catholic Church census? Is that the goal, to make us legally disappear by co-oppting our members as yours? Rome wants to destroy the Orthodox Church because she hates Her. --71.240.138.53 (talk) 20:22, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"New" doctrine[edit]

I think the section on the acceptance of this "new" doctrine should be modified, since it certainly isn't NPOV. Many respected scholars would argue that Palamas was not teaching something new, but rather that he stood within the Eastern Patristic heritage and was defending what was already taught against innovation. — Precedingunsigned comment added by OrthodoxLinguist (talk• contribs) 00:37, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've rewritten the section to remove most places where the Palamas doctrine is characterized as "new". The fact remains that the opposition to it was based on their understanding that it was an innovation rather than orthodox teaching. In the end, the opposition was suppressed and Palamas' teaching became considered orthodox. That is what the article text says now.--Pseudo-Richard (talk) 04:36, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me! Thanks. I think a decent historical argument could be made on either side and so I think that the article, as it now stands after your changes, is much better NPOV than it would be if it either claimed the teaching was a novelty or that he was defending an already-existing Patristic consensus. OrthodoxLinguist (talk) 06:18, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Orphaned references in Gregory Palamas[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Gregory Palamas's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Fortescue":

  • From Palamism: Fortescue, Adrian (1910), Hesychasm, vol. VII, New York: Robert Appleton Company, retrieved 2008-02-03
  • From Hesychasm: "Adrian Fortescue, "Hesychasm" in Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. VII (Robert Appleton Company, New York, 1910)". Oce.catholic.com. 2013-08-12. Archived from the original on 2013-12-24. Retrieved 2014-02-06.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 11:26, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

He is not a saint in the Latin Catholic Church.[edit]

Gregory Palamas is not a saint in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, but only in some Eastern Catholic Churches. It is incorrect to say that he is venerated in the Roman Catholic Church as a whole. This is similar to the case of Constantine the Great, who is venerated as a saint by some Eastern Catholic Churches but not by the Latin Church. There is no feast day for Gregory Palamas in the General Roman Calendar or any other Latin Rite local Catholic Calendar, but the Eastern Catholic Churches celebrate the feast day of Gregory Palamas on 14 November. It is better to say that he is venerated in the Eastern Catholic Churches rather than the Roman Catholic Church as a whole unless he is formally declared a saint by the Roman Catholic Church.

EXANXC (talk) 04:01, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@EXANXC I appreciate your input, but Gregory Palamas is indeed considered a saint not only by some Eastern Catholic Churches but also by the Roman Catholic Church as a whole. This recognition is based on various documents signed by different popes that affirm his sanctity and significance in the broader Catholic tradition. One recent example is the Alexandria document dated June 2023, which reaffirms the acceptance of Gregory Palamas as a saint within the Roman Catholic Church by giving him the "Saint" prefix.[1] Therefore, it is accurate to say that he is venerated not only in Eastern Catholic Churches but also within the Roman Catholic Church as a whole, as officially declared by these documents. He was also quoted as a "great Eastern writer" by Pope John Paul II[2] and was also quoted in a theological occurrence by the same pope.[3] In 2008, Benedict XVI announced that he would dedicate some time speaking about "patristic figures" which included Gregory the Great, Anselm, Bernard, Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure and Gregory Palamas.[4] Gregory Palamas was also quoted as a saint by several other Roman Catholic authorities outside of the Eastern Catholic Churches, we can think of Cardinal Geraldo Majella Agnelo[5] for example.
In conclusion, these documents and declarations by various popes and RC authorities affirm his status as a saint of the Catholic Church as a whole. AgisdeSparte (talk) 12:36, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is also worth noting that the Catholic Code of Canon Law, both the General Code of Canon Law and the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, do not make a distinction between saints recognized within the Catholic Church. In fact, both codes of canon law state the same principle in Canon 1187 of the General Code and Canon 885 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches: "It is permitted to reverence through public veneration only those servants of God whom the authority of the Church has recorded in the list of the saints or the blessed."
Therefore, once an individual is included in the martyrology of any part of the Catholic Church, it engages the entire Catholic Church as a whole, as clearly understood by the various popes and Catholic authorities mentioned earlier. This legal framework further supports the recognition of Gregory Palamas as a saint within the Catholic Church. AgisdeSparte (talk) 13:09, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, it is quite evident when it comes to the Eastern Catholic Churches that when the Roman Catholic Church did not wish to endorse an individual as a saint, it would make this clear during negotiations or discussions. A notable example of this practice is seen in the case of Nestorius and the Chaldean Church, where the Roman Catholic Church requested the removal of Nestorius from their martyrology. AgisdeSparte (talk) 13:11, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above reasons are not valid grounds to prove that Gregory Palamas is venerated as a saint by the Roman Catholic Church:
  • A Catholic leader calling someone "saint" does not mean that the Catholic Church venerates them as a saint.
  • The Alexandria Document is a joint document by the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches, not a document solely released by the Catholic Church and it is not a statement from the Catholic Church on the status of Gregory Palamas. Therefore, the fact that Gregory Palamas is referred to as "Saint" in that document does not mean that he is venerated in the Roman Catholic Church.
  • The Catholic Church not making distinctions of saints in martyrologies does not mean that the Latin Church venerates all the Eastern saints that they venerate. For example, Constantine the Great is venerated in the Eastern Catholic Churches but is not considered a saint in the Latin Church.
  • For someone to be officially considered a saint in the Roman Catholic Church, they must be included in the Roman Martyrology. The 2004 Roman Martyrology (which includes over 7,000 saints) includes several Russian Orthodox saints such as Stephen of Perm, Anthony of Kiev, Theodosius of Kiev, and Sergius of Radonezh who have been recognized by the Roman Catholic Church as saints, but it does not include Gregory Palamas. Therefore, if the Roman Catholic Church officially recognizes Gregory Palamas as a saint, he must be included in the Roman Martyrology.
In conclusion, it is incorrect and misleading to say that the Roman Catholic Church venerates Gregory Palamas as a saint. It is more accurate to say that he is venerated in the Eastern Catholic Churches. EXANXC (talk) 15:03, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would also like to add that according to the Council of Zamość (1720) "the veneration and even mention of the name of St Gregory be prohibited in the Uniate Church." (The ‘Latin’ within the ‘Greek’ by Maria Takala-Roszczenko, pp. 92). Pope Pius XII goes on to affirm the Council of Zamość in his encyclical Orientales Omnes Ecclesias (Paragraph 18). rando 20:06, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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