Talk:Elie Hobeika

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POV[edit]

This is arguably the very worst page I've ever read on Wikipedia. I hope to find some time to take the evident bias out of it. Whether one likes it or not, Elie Hobeika has openly admitted to orchestrating a massacre in the camps of Sabra and Chatilla, and there is much speculation that he was killed to save embarassment to the Israeli Prime Minister (Defence Minister at the time of the massacres). To call the man a hero is patently absurd, perhaps a repentant tyrant is more fitting.

If us Lebanese don't start embracing and accepting the problems of our past, we're doomed to repeat them.

155.136.80.162 11:15, 10 September 2007 (UTC)Wael[reply]

EH was the commander of the forces that entered the camps. His "admission" was not news.
EH was never a "tyrant". The Lebanese (with Syrian aquiescence) made him a minister less than 10 years after the massacre, but it was a formally legitimate move by a formally legitimate government.
And yes, this may be the worst article on Wikipedia, but some fellow keeps reverting back. Go figure. elpincha 14:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Corrupt Users as of 9/07/07 Make Page Bunk[edit]

At least one user is changing information to purge the biography of anything unseemly that Hobeika did during his life.The User named Mirvate generally alters the page to include subjective opinions, distortions of known or commonly held facts,and deletions of facts to further the above aim. This generally involves deleting anything connecting Habeika to the massacres at Sarma or his larger role in the Lebanese civil war. It also involves adding unsupported and irrelevant accusations of a decidedly anti-western bent; as well as unsupported material regarding the perpetrators of Hobeika's death. This article is at odds with every other Wikipedia article that discusses Hobeika as well as reliable sources related to the man and his life.

I don't have an dog in this fight, I had never even heard of the man before today. After reading much that he was involved in I found my here to see that it was purged from his biography. Instead it described as a "brave defender of the Lebanese..." and other such pandering nonsense that has no place in Wikipedia, and "during the Lebanese civil war he was having tea and napping- that is it. And any insinuations to the contrary is a zionist insult to the brave martyrs! Tea and Napping Alone!". Those are not really quotes but the general gist of it. The silliest one went something like "and zionist Wikepdia users will never succeed in sullying the name of this good man!" or something like that. Look in the history.

My familiarity with Wikipedia is limited and I have no idea what to do in these circumstances, but users like Mirvate should be banned with anyone else who attempts to further an agenda or some hobby horse. This page should be protected and rewritten.

indeed -- "pandering nonsense" it is. I only arrived here because the article was on the Wikipedia front page today. It's a lesson in what a Wikipedia article would look like if ... well, I don't know quite what went wrong or how to prevent it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard8081 (talk • contribs) 14:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Myth vs Facts[edit]

When I started working on this topic, I found this interesting story that I did not heard of previously (it was already in the article). It says that Hobeika fiancé was raped and killed in Damour. I did some searching : Fisk says that it happened in 75 but other sources on the internet say it's in 76, during damour's massacre. Other sources say that Hobeika lost some of his relatives in Damur. Does somebody know anything about this? Complte fabrication. this story is totally UNTRUE , it is pure fiction.

I kept the story unchanged in the article, but I would like some data on it to be sure. --equitor 16:55, July 22, 2005 (UTC)


Here the number of people killed in the 1985 car bomb is stated as "more than 45". ; in the entry for Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah it is stated as 80. Can anyone who feels confident about their sources reconcile these articles? --Dcaron 12:45, 16 September 2005 (UTC) Complete fabrication again . Elie Hobeika had Nothing to do with The hit on fadlallah .[reply]


***[edit]

I've tagged this article with {{unreferenced}}. I just want to make clear that I do this with no personal bias or malicious intent, but simply because though this is a well written article and apparently well sourced as things stand not a single one of the sources is referenced. There's no ==References== section at all. I would suggest that somebody well informed on the subject (which I freely admit I'm not) add a reference section and cite all the factual claims in the article, or at least any that might be disputed. See WP:CITE for help, or feel free to give me a shout. --Daduzi talk 00:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I've noticed that this page has recently been changed into what appears to be at best a very long, biased rant, at worst vandalism. the links and 'sources are all the same. so i can only assume that the accounts are just sock puppets. is there any way to bring this page to attention for a little protection? 168.103.247.124 18:01, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Semiprotection[edit]

I have asked that this article is semiprotected at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Thuresson 19:48, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article still needs alot of work, (post Lebanese civil war section)--Skatewalk 17:47, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

POV[edit]

Can we please keep the article clean?

  • The tripartite agreement is important because it gave Syria what it wanted!(Breaking the LF)
  • The tripatite was the height of his political career. (eventually his stances will change as usual~in Lebanon, but this has to be clearly mentioned woithout POV).
  • After the civil war is another section (that needs alot of work), because thats another Hobeika.--Skatewalk 17:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of controversy and poorly written article[edit]

It seems to be that this page is a mess and considering the nature of Hobeika's involvement in Lebanese, Israeli politics, including the Lebanese civil war and the Sabra and Shatila massacre which is oversaw, there is not much information. I just did a brief writing on his assassination which was left blank for some reason. Israel is not the only one who could have gained from his murder, Syria could have killed him because he was going to talk to the CIA and leave Lebanon, and the Lebanese Forces had already tried to kill him in 1991. The Palestinians had a natural reason to kill him due to his involvement in the massacres.

--Eternalsleeper 21:13, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a laughable and ridiculous article[edit]

All smoke screens and mirrors to obfuscate basic facts, and no mention of the most damning evidence of all against Hobeika, the autobiography written by his own bodyguard and hired gun, Robert Maroun Hatem. Hobeika wasn't killed for anything he had on Sharon. It is laughable to believe that Sharon felt any threat from the Belgian "court proceedings", or that he would have had any intention of travelling to Belgium had any proceedings actually taken place. These would-be proceedings were not regarded as anything more than a gimmick or a bad joke in Israel. No, Hobeika was a double agent, working for Syria, and it was for fear of making revelations to implicate Syria that Hobeika was eliminated. J.D. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 22:56, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oliver North[edit]

Article says "Oliver north led a coup". This sounds non-sensical to me, but perhaps my knowladge of history is lacking. Could anyone point to any references that confirm this information? 84.228.248.105 (talk) 22:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

User:Mirvate changed "Samir Geagea led a coup..." to "Oliver North led a coup..." (diff). Mirvate has since been permanently blocked. Thuresson (talk) 21:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Did a bit of a rewrite[edit]

I did a bit of a rewrite after someone completely emptied the article claiming it was POV. It is less POV now. Certainly there is more that could be written but it was a very complicated time in Lebanon and it will not be easy to write a good clear and understandable article about this controversial character. According to the Guardian article, most of what we "know" is colored by the POV of the book written by his bodyguard, so unless we have newspapers and reliable sources for our information we should refrain from adding it. It would be great is someone could find reliable references (WP:RS) for the information that is already given. I would remind some here that blogs and "Blogspots" are not acceptable sources. Tundrabuggy (talk) 16:14, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Additions and Corrections[edit]

It's a pity this article is protected from editing, as there are some details that should be added (which are readily available in other language parallels), as well some minor corrections that should be made. Notably I would have liked to add more details about the assassination, and to change the unclear "MP" in the introduction (which leads to a disambiguation page) to the clearer (and unambiguous) phrase "Member of Parliament". 217.132.169.181 (talk) 00:42, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Anon, I encourage you to make your edits here. Perhaps if they are seen as legitimate edits properly sourced, we can get protection lifted and put the information in. At least when the page is unprotected, your material will be available. Tundrabuggy (talk) 05:28, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Elie Hobeika/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The subject is a very complicated one and I don't pretend to know what the truth is, but it is quite clear that this article makes no pretense at objectivity. It is clearly being written from one person's point of view.

Last edited at 16:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 14:20, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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