Talk:Diego Maradona/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Coaching history

the table states he started coaching Argentina today. Can somebody change that, i am too inept at editing wiki to do that82.73.99.96 (talk) 16:37, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Drug addiction

It is perhaps no longer fair to state that Maradone is still addicted to drugs

Is he still the Government of Argentina (he has a jumbo-passport) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.89.69.144 (talk) 23:47, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Humala Page Picture

During the 2006 Presidential Election Maradona went to play in Peru with an implicit support for Humala's campaign. I thought maybe some people here would like to use this image on the section about his political views and add the info about the Peruvian election. I know alot of people probably view this page so I thought I'd just suggest it here on the talk page.--Jersey Devil 22:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Hm, hte image look kinda weird to me. Anyhow, Maradona said that even though Chavez (with whom they are sort of friends), he has nothing to do with Humala: "A mí no me metan en boludeces. Nada que ver o estamos todos locos. Sólo voy a ir a ese país a jugar showbol, pero nada más". Clarin newspaper
I think (though not sure) that the image is a composite made up to illustrate the sayings by Alan García. You've got to be careful with this things not to use them incorrectly. Mariano(t/c) 07:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Individual honours

This part is rather uncomplete and, as we can see in Spanidh Wikipedia, his individual honors are much more than those that appear here. Through this link, you will see the complete list of all his prizes: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Armando_Maradona in the final part named "Distinciones Individuales". You may think, and why don't you do? the answer is in these words. My English is not correct enough in order to edit the Wikipedia. However, I know about Maradona and I am trying to aport more information. So, update it please.

PD: UPDATE THE FIRST PHOTO, THIS IS THE PAST, please.

As for his honours, one of them would include a Diplomatic Passport, but he has been diplomaticaly incorrect (ever) since 1986. Why is that?

Early in his European career, he won the Copa del Rey along with Barcelona. Does that mean he has shaken hands with King Juan Carlos de Borbon? If such be it, why is there no picture of this event? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.89.69.144 (talk) 01:34, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

That would be a great idea. If you can find one WE CAN USE have at it. The encyclopedia anyone can edit, remember? Britmax (talk) 16:39, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

On Hold

A one sentence introduction on an article this long? Come on now, just two or three paragraphs is fine, otherwise it can't possibly adequately summarize the article, fails WP:LEAD, and shouldn't be a Good Article. I'm putting this article on hold until somebody can expand the lead. Homestarmy 00:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Looks like it's just about there, on this point at least. 4u1e 01:00, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Folks, can someone update with the pronunciation of the name? would help a lot. Thank you. --H P Nadig * \Talk \Contributions 17:19, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Weasel words, apparent Original research need fixed

This article reads like a fan site. WP:GA failed. The following instances of weasel words and/or uncited POV need fixed/cited WP:NOR:

  1. "regarded by many as the greatest" cited
  2. "inspiring the national team "
  3. "strong legs and low center of gravity gave him an advantage" cited
  4. "Villa Fiorito, a shantytown" cited
  5. "Maradona had an unhappy tenure in Barcelona" reworded and cited
  6. "It is said that while playing for Barcelona" cited
  7. "Maradona, due in part to his rebellious nature, got into frequent disputes" reworded
  8. "In Naples, Maradona transformed the local club" reworded
  9. "was the object of some suspicion over his friendship"
  10. "Maradona inspired the Argentine national team to victory"
  11. "Throughout the 1986 World Cup, Maradona asserted his dominance and was the best player of the tournament"
  12. "which became an instant bestseller " cited
  13. "even though Argentine officials have maintained that FIFA hinted that it would" cited
  14. "it is common for Argentines abroad to hear Maradona's name as a token of recognition" cited
- Davodd 17:58, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I get your point, but certain things shouldn't be changed. For instance 1) it is sourceable (actual references on the page), and it's pretty much the same as Pelé.
Then, 4: Villa Fiorito is actually a villa miseria or shantytown. For the rest: well, they could be rephrased, but saying he had "an unhappy tenure in Barcelona" doesn't seam completelly wrong, since he had several problems. Regarding Maradona leading the team to the World Cup, it is also widelly considered like that, and he was named the best player of the tournament. Mariano(t/c) 06:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Croatian Link

I have added his link to Dalmatia Croatia as Trivia. It's true so it should be mentioned. Then story is well known and has been covered by the press in Croatia and Argentina. The connection with Marco Polo is interesting too.

In Argentina today some 500,000 people have a Croatian origin. Jagoda 1 04:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Mateo Kariolic is related to Marco Polo. Maradona is related to Mateo K. Very interesting when you look at that family tree from Korcula.Jagoda 1 03:05, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Ephedrine

I recently removed the comment "testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs." with "failing a doping test". The point is that even though an stimulant such as cafeine, ephedrine can't be directly considered a performance-enhancing drug. Given Maradona's overweight during the early 1990s, and the abrupt loos of it right before the start of the 1994 World Cup, it is considered to have been used for weight loss before the competition(In defence of Diego Maradona - Eddie Veal, see also Ephedra).

Something more, Efedrina is not prohibited for sports in USA and other countries, mainly because it is not considered an enhancer ([1][2], "Fútbol, a sol y sombra", Eduardo Galeano )

I'm not trying to justify Maradona's methods, I'm just trying to remove certain bias from the Article. For instance, he was banned also for cocaine in blood, what is not mentioned in the opening text.

All in all, there's a hole section of doping in the article, and suggiesting that he took the drug to enhance his performance during the tournament is biased, for it cannot be proved.

I'll rephrase it to be more specific, yet more neutral. Mariano(t/c) 10:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

"...so that FIFA would not lose prestige over my absence". Can't say I believe that one. He had already held both FIFA and the principles of fair play in discontempt. Any reason to believe his alegation on "being allowed" to use ephidrine? Surely they are not that bent in FIFA? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.89.69.144 (talk) 00:50, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Contradict tag

Merely tagged as opposed to editing because I don't pretend to be an expert on the matter. I just happened to notice the apparent contradiction of having a "short and weak physique" and a "short and strong" playing type in the same paragraph. Tjtoml 04:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

"said by many to be the best" vs "widely held to be among the best"

There is constant reversion backwards and forwards between these or similar phrases in the opening paragraph. The article cited demonstrates that in an on-line poll to register preferences for the greatest player of the 20th century, Maradona received not only the greatest number of votes, but an absolute majority. Such a poll is unrepresentative, and open to block voting, and I would not be infavour of a comment saying that "most football fans consider him to be the greatest", but it does prove that many count him as the best. Although "many" is obviously non-specific, I would contend that it is less mealy-mouthed than "widely held". Likewise, it is verifiable that many have registered a preference for him as the best, wheras to say that he is "among the best" invites the question "the best what? The best 3? the best 20? the best 500?". Thus to say merely that he is "among the best" is to damn with faint praise, and to underestimate the esteem in which this player's ability is held. (I make no comment as to his character, except to suggest that it may have lead a significant number of people to be unwilling to give the recognition they might otherwise have done to his talent). Thus I propose that the first phrase in the heading of this section remain, but look forward to lively debate of the matter. Kevin McE 20:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

See the discussion I started at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#"Greatest" claims in several football articles. and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football#"Greatest" claims. Stu ’Bout ye! 08:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Your position seems to be founded largely on WP:WEASEL: the top of that article reads This page in a nutshell: Avoid "some people say" statements without sources. My whole point is that here there is a source, and the source, an authoritative and relevant worldwide body, reports that a majority of those participating in a widely promoted poll say not only that he is "among the best" (which I would contend is a weasel phrase, for reasons stated above), but that he is "the best. Kevin McE 20:26, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Stubacca's changes. Claims are okay if and only if attributed. "John Doe is the best flute player<ref>[2007 FooBar internet poll]</ref>" is not acceptable, but "John Doe is the best flute player according to a 2007 FooBar internet poll" is. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-15 17:16Z

I cannot see that a claim is any less attributed by virtue of being in the footnote than in the text, and the brevity desirable in a lead paragraph weighs against such detail in the opening sentence of an article. Kevin McE 20:26, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
This isn't about whether it's in the footnote or not. The problem is an internet poll is not a reliable source. It's not even a secondary source. You can't say "Donatello is the world's favorite Ninja Turtle [3]". I'm not saying that Donatello isn't widely regarded as the best Ninja Turtle; I'm saying that an internet poll doesn't prove this, and if this claim is challenged, then it should be removed until it is supported by references. What is supported by the reference is "Readers of Slashdot voted that their favorite Ninja Turtle is Donatello [4]". Unfortunately for Donatello fans, that statement sounds wimpier; too bad, find a better reference to back up the original claim. That's WP:ATT for you - the onus is on the person trying to add/keep a statement, not the person challenging it. WP:ATT trumps concerns about the brevity of the lede paragraph. If "Foo says Bar is the best" is a crappy sentence, then remove it altogether; it doesn't mean you're free to write "Bar is the best." Can I give you more examples? "Americans prefer Rudy Giuliani to Hilary Clinton as 2008 president [5]" versus "According to a 2006 American Research Group poll, ..."; "Jeff Bezos was the most influential person of 1999" versus "TIME magazine considered Jeff Bezoes the most influential person of 1999." —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-16 07:01Z
But the statement does not say that Maradona is the best, nor that most people say he is the best (I agree with you, you could only say that most people in FIFA's on-line poll voted Maradona as the greatest footballer of the 20th century): it says that many say that he is the best: that is true, and the article cited provides evidence of it. To quote the NPOV policy "assert facts, including facts about opinions — but do not assert the opinions themselves": the statement as it stands asserts a fact about opinions, and gives evidence to support that fact. So where is the problem? Kevin McE 19:04, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Okay, it now says "regarded by many" rather than "widely regarded". That's an improvement since it's at face value a statement that's supported by the citation. But "regarded by many" is vague in a misleading way: it either means "widely regarded" or "regarded by a non-trivial number of people". If it's the former, it's the same problem. If it's the latter, then "regarded by many" doesn't say anything useful. I could write "Maradona is regarded by many as not the best player", since 47% of users voted for somebody else. It's like the "some argue" problem that pervades Wikipedia. I could say "some argue that the Holocaust did not occur" and then cite someone who argues such. That would technically be a statement supported by a citation. But it wouldn't be NPOV; that statement is trying to imply that the Holocaust really didn't occur. Instead one should write, for example, "David Hoggan argued that the Holocaust did not occur". I am changing "regarded by many as the greatest footballer of all time" to "He played in four World Cups, including winning the 1986 FIFA World Cup, and received a FIFA award for best footballer of the 20th century." —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-21 08:03Z

Mandiyú de Corrientes

According to this article, Maradona coached a club named Mandiyú de Corrientes. Is Mandiyú de Corrientes and Textil Mandiyú the same club? --Carioca 05:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Check the Club's article in Spanish. --151.193.220.27 14:51, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! Regards, --Carioca 01:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Update the picture

Can't someone post a picture of him lifting the world cup thats not copyright protected. I think that should be the picture most would remember maradona by. he is a footballer, and that was his greatest moment. ergo

It says he's playing for Liverpool in 1980!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aqua lem (talk • contribs) 18:37, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

name of article

This man is generally known by the two word version of his name: the middle name is neither necessary nor commonplace in making clear to whom one is referring. I have undone the move that had been made with no discussion and no meaningful edit-note earlier today. Kevin McE (talk) 17:29, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Completely agree and would have done so myself if I had noticed. Woody (talk) 17:32, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Goals

I have a question, why did you include all the goals (national and international club cups)?, even when you put the note "Senior Club appearances and goals counted for the DOMESTIC LEAGUE ONLY" down there. Kyosukekun (talk) 01:28, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Reference?

In the first paragraph there is this "Considered to be one of the most overrated players of the 20th century". Considered by who? Please can you give us some reference because i feel this sentence is pulled right out of the hat. Thanx 131.188.245.159 (talk) 12:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

It's vandalism. Delete and denounce. Kevin McE (talk) 15:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Maradonna's birth

In the book 'The Ultimate Fan's Handbook' by Michael Coleman, there is a question in the quiz section that states: "Finally, even as you're reading these words, somewhere in the world a future footballing star may be taking his first breath. Will his (or her) mum be able to tell? What did the doctors shout as Argentina's star Diego Maradona was born? a) It's a goal! b) It's a footballer! c) It's a hand!" All that on page 37. The answer, according to page 38, is a, it's a goal. They were footall fans, and Maradona was the first male child born that day. I added this to the article, but was accused of vandalism. I've given you my source, is it reliable? I think so.86.135.209.39 (talk) 16:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Think? You are posting nonsense. Remember this is an encyclopedia. We require verifiable facts. Keep the nonsense elsewhere please. -- Alexf42 16:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I am quoting directly from the book in question, so sorry if it sounds informal. I added "When Maradonna was born, Doctors cried "It's a goal!" as he was the first boy born that day" or something along those lines. It was removed because it wasn't sourced. I am posting a source. Sorry if I sound unreasonable, but I'm trying to improve the article86.135.209.39 (talk) 14:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC) I've read the link you provided, and as a result will give more info on the book in question. It's a footballing equivalent of Horrible Histories- which has a good reputation for fact checking. It's published by Scholastic, which also has a good rep for fact checking. 86.135.209.39 (talk) 14:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Maradona's team

I'm going to delete this statement "...to the club that he supported, Boca Juniors..." since there is no citation to it. Besides I know he wasn't a boca fan at all. Watching the popular soccer show in Argentina, Estudio Futbol, he stated that he was a supporter of Club Atlético Independiente before joining Boca. Ricardoread —Preceding comment was added at 15:09, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

"STOP BUSH" instead of "STOP BU卐H"

There is an error, it says "STOP BU卐H" instead of "STOP BUSH".

I tried correcting this line TWICE, but "someone" keeps removing my edition "for some reason".

Source:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051121/timerman

"Signs carried by the crowd included "STOP BUSH" and "Pirate Bush, out of Mar del Plata." Crowd estimates varied, from 25,000 cited in the New York Times to 50,000 people cited by organizers." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.31.183.90 (talk) 19:16, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Croatian Origin

Is maradona a Croat by a male line?? The Editor14 (talk) 19:50, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

No. Mariano(t/c) 08:17, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Nah. It's more typical of the southern Argentines who'se parents may come from Puntas Arenas, but noone seems to live in southern Argentina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.89.69.144 (talk) 23:39, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Maradona's birth place

I believe Maradona was born in Lanus, but raised in villa fiorito. Ricardoread (talk) 18:31, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

"Maradona won many trophies...."

The full line reads that "Maradona won many trophies with Boca Juniors, FC Barcelona and SSC Napoli over the course of his career." I question the wording of this sentence. It sounds like he won many trophies with each of these teams, when in fact he didn't really do very much with either of the first two. He won the league once with Boca Juniors and the Copa del Rey and a Spanish supercup with Barcelona. Since he really only won 'many trophies' with Napoli, I'd say this line should sound something like this: "Over the course of his professsional career Maradona played for Boca Juniors, FC Barcelona, and, most distinguishedly, SSC Napoli."

--Trefalcon (talk) 12:44, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I just made a whole slew of additions, some changes, and a lot of cleaning up. --Trefalcon (talk) 14:23, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

...considered by many as the greatest footballer of all time...

I strongly believe that, after Pele is described as such on wikipedia, Maradona certainly deserves similar praise. He won the FIFA poll at the end of last century, he has been named as such by many commentators, footballers, pundits and etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chief White Halfoat (talk • contribs) 01:22, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

If someone argues that this statement is POV or unsourced, then I would ask them to remove it from the wikipage on Pele as well, where it also unsourced. Thank you. --Chief White Halfoat (talk) 01:25, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

OK. Is someone going to AT LEAST EXPLAIN HERE, WHY SUCH A STATEMENT IS POSSIBLE TO EXIST UNSOURCED IN THE WKIPAGE ABOUT PELE AND NOT HERE? --Chief White Halfoat (talk) 02:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I added a ref to the Pele page. Please do not add one here unless you do the same. J.delanoygabsadds 03:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
If you want to say that he is considered the best one (i agree), you should say who says he's the best and provide reputable sources --Nandonaranja (talk) 19:32, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Kusturica's documentary

Shouldn't this incredibly emotional documentary be included under topic "In popular culture"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.70.95.54 (talk) 22:57, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Manager Stats

In the table of Manager Stats I wrote the official matches in Mandiyú and Racing. I think in Argentina National Team we can do the same. --Eduardocombe (talk) 14:49, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Compressed-air-rifle incident and Valdano remarks

I suggest to move this paragraph and quotation from the Retirement and Honours section to the Personal Life section, right before the Family subtitle. Aldo L (talk) 04:49, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

POV tag added

Parts of the article reads like something from a fanzine. Please keep an uncyclopedic neutrality---even if you happen to be a fan. With Maradona's merits, the facts can speak for themselves. 94.220.243.113 (talk) 01:22, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Please specify which sections you consider to lack neutrality, or to give examples of what needs attention, or even, in the true spirit of Wikipedia, try to improve it yourself. Kevin McE (talk) 07:22, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

" right wing and neoliberal presidency of Carlos Menem" Cite source confirming that Mr. Menem belongs to the "right wing" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.245.161.217 (talk) 17:01, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Done.Xavier 21 (talk) 02:10, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Add 2010 Category:FIFA World Cup managers ?

Add 2010 Category:FIFA World Cup managers ? 209.255.78.138 (talk) 16:54, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

 Done -- Alexf(talk) 17:46, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Actually, it should be "2010 FIFA World Cup managers". The current category shouldn't have articles in it, but just be a step into the specific categories. I will start the moving. MBelgrano (talk) 17:49, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Sub standard writing

The Sevilla, Newell's paragraph is hardly readable because it is not written with regard to time. Since the second part takes place before the part, it is disjointed and makes the reader have to stop and reread to make sense of it. Also not too sure the two parts go together since one is about the demise of his soccer days and the other is not. A better transition in between or just rewriting the whole part seems to be in order. Definitely not up to standards of other Wikipedia articles.65.191.152.205 (talk) 13:58, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Cocaine?

So first off, I'm an American, completely unfamiliar with soccer. But I was reading through this article since Argentina seems to be doing well.

I ran across one cocaine use allegation and thought nothing, then I hit another, so I looked for inline citations about this and saw nothing. This is a biography of a living person thus (and this is my impression as a massively part time editor) these things either need to be cited or removed asap. So I am going to remove them. If they are true feel free to add them back with citations.

-- Senior Fire (talk) 05:37, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I take it back, the page it protected, however I think the comments about his drug use either need to be attributed or removed.

-- Senior Fire (talk) 05:39, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree about his drug use needing citation or removal. As an Argentine Im obviously biased but if its true (I don't know) it should stay, if it can not be backed up then its speculation and should be removed. --Messirulz Friday july 2, 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Messirulz (talk • contribs) 06:09, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

In the relevant section there are clear and appropriate citations from, among others, the BBC and the New York Times. What's the problem? Kevin McE (talk) 09:45, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

-- I'm a Diego's fan and himself in the film Maradona by Kusturica he admits the usage of cocaine, so more citation than that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.215.221.120 (talk) 19:45, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Houston Chronicle quote

I do not think the opening quote of the 'In Popular Culture' paragraph is relevant at all to this article. Outside of the USA, Diego Maradona is a much, much more famous person than Babe Ruth (who?), Mike Tyson and even Michael Jordan. So to anyone from 'the rest of the world' this quote tells them nothing about who Maradona is or how he is seen in the world/popular culture. I did not know what the Houston Chronicle is, but from following the link I learned it is a newspaper from Texas? How can a Texas newspaper be considered a relevant authority on the subject of Diego Maradona? This quote only has value for people from Texas/the USA.

Maradona is arguably the most famous footballer of all times. So I'm sure a much more relevant quote can found for this section, from perhaps another famous footballer, a recognized international authority on football, Argentine media, etc. If not, the quote should be deleted altogether since it has little to no value for the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.89.235.48 (talk) 12:29, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 10boca12, 27 July 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The information box about Maradona's managerial history with the Argentine national Team should be changed by replacing present to July 2010. Ole Clarin has reported that Maradona will no longer be the Manager of the Argentine Selection.

10boca12 (talk) 02:23, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. AJCham 02:33, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Done Plenty of reports now that his contract is not being renewed. -- Arwel Parry (talk) 22:28, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Aston Villa link

A possibe edit/ addition for the current introduction?

On 15th August 2010, Maradonna's agent declared that Diego would be interested in the manager's position at the English Premier League team aston villa

source- http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Maradona-fancies-Villa-job-article555631.html?&ref=qr&p=1&c=36001 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Patjn (talk • contribs) 19:52, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Not really: he might have fancied the idea of it, but no evidence that he applied, or that Villa thought twice about being interested in him. A short-term giggle in pub conversations, but not of biographical relevance. Kevin McE (talk) 23:11, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

sug bale —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.103.203.135 (talk) 08:25, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Possible faking of photo

There are two photographs. One shows Maradona's hand about a foot from the ball. The other appears to show it in contact with the ball. I think that faking, possibly with Photoshop, has been used. The images of Shilton and Maradona seem to have been moved up. Otherwise, the two are virtually identical. The dates when the two appeared should be interesting.

As far as I can remember, the photo with the gap of about a foot was the first to appear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.5.12 (talk) 11:23, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Another photo, taken by Daniel Motz, at about the same time, shows Maradona's hand about a foot from the ball. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.194.200 (talk) 15:57, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
I have never seen a Photoshopped fake of the Motz photo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.61.128 (talk) 13:39, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

AND also sucks in the game — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.238.174 (talk) 23:47, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Best player chosen by the people

Hey ive checked Pele's article in the introduction with all his nominations as the best player by FIFA and footballing beaurocrats and i'm glad he deserves them. How about Maradona... Can we at least put his only award as the best player of the century in the introduction, I mean i know you all hate maradona with all your heart, but I think he deserves at least that....I mean wikipedia is a world wide information source by the people for the people and Maradona was chosen in the worldwide vote organized by FIFA and voted by the people themselves. I think it's fair I don't know.

Here is one of the many artiel in FIFA.. http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/players/player=174732/bio.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by FIFApoll (talk • contribs)

His introduction says that he is "widely regarded as one of the greatest football players of all time". If you try to prove that by adding the FIFA poll, I think it makes the statement weaker. The award belongs in the article, it already is, but not in the introduction.
And please stop assuming that all wikipedia editors hate Maradona. I don't. --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 20:30, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
This same editor, whose choice of username suggests that he/she has a specific agenda in terms of the promotion of this poll result, has been trying to restore disproportionate levels of detail into the lead paragraph of the article. I have invited him/her to discuss the matter or to try to explain why he/she considers this to be appropriate, but talk pages remain unused and editnotes uninformative. Kevin McE (talk) 07:51, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
And he has done it yet again, with no consideration for consensus and no apparent interest in discussion. Kevin McE (talk) 17:23, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Edit 19 aug: Yes I created that account to fix this, In the spanish and portuguese wiki I didnt need to bc they are a fair wikipedia Giving recognition to both players at the top page but Here I guess is diff there are articles http://www.fifa.com/newscentre/news/newsid=76134.html You might find more since your very good at wikipedia, tHe award is real it took place in rome (I kNow u know just repeating) . In all fairness with no preference to the other and me being brazilian at least I know I tried to give Maradona a recognition at the top, as a football fan I Tried. Anyways Thanks for responding here I didnt know how to talk in private. Yes about hating Maradona at least in the english community is a huge population I Guess its not all English speaking Football fans But a good portion :). — Preceding unsigned comment added by FIFApoll (talk • contribs) 04:29, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
The FIFA poll is already linked from the very first sentence of the article, which features the phrase "widely regarded as one of the greatest football players of all time". No-one is suggesting the removal of that, but additional detail of that is inappropriate to the head. It is adequately dealt with in the relevant section of the article. I can understand your concern that there might be an anti-Argentine bias among English editors: the same concern led me to put both this article and the Argentine national team on my watchlist. But I have found little evidence of such bias, any that has occurred has been quickly reverted, and I do not consider it to be an issue in the current status of the article. That there is however bias in your own motivation appears clear from the fact that while you praise the lead of the articles in Spanish and Portuguese wikipedias, you are not suggesting that his altercations with the press, which are reported in the lead of the Portuguese version, nor the extended exposition found in both the sister wikis of his drug problems, should be incorporated. Neither are you asking that the description of the Goal of the Century be excised from the en.wiki account. Kevin McE (talk) 10:44, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

MY LAST EDIT AUG 20: Right little evidence...one guy from ESPN calling him a fat bastard who could dribble is lil evidence i guess, north american I think. Blatter too does not even consider him one of the greatest, bc he mixes personal life into that, it's a shame, but his own award backfired to maradona's side. Altercations with the press drug problems, put it at the top who cares, i never thought of that because it doesnt really matter to describe what he did on the pitch and I really dont care if its at the stop even at the first sentence as long as you put his recognitions there too. There's a missing informations and details at the worldcups he was in as well as what he did in napoli which was never repeated again, the times, not a journalist as you "nicely put it" , is not the only source who considers him as the best performance of the worldcup which is a huge thing though garrincha got pretty close, i think its pretty obvious if you have watched the wc and there are sources even quotes from DTs Golden Ball Players more Magazines and even at the FIFA WEBPAGE "single handedly won the worldcup with the best performance ever"... If the goal of the century was chosen by the people in the same manner the FIFA CENTURY AWARD was chosen and it's at the top, then there should say "best player of the century award" at the top page just like goal of the century to be fair or just like Pele's awards are all at the top he doesnt have a section, but i guess in all "your fairness" and you "watching over Maradona's Article" would take out both recognitions at the top and put it in the reference or really down there where people rarely read. There's nothing here to do, this is a biased wikipedia...I guess wikipedia it's not gonna be wikipedia for this article, at least in the english version.

But anyways like I said I tried, you win since you spend more time here but you shouldn't it's a bad thing for you.

) have fun. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.74.21.174 (talk) 16:38, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

1986 World Cup - Victor Hugo Morales commentary

At the end of the third paragraph of this section is the following: "Right after the goal occurred, it left the television commentator "sobbing in joy", and apologizing for his outburst.[17]". I'd recommend this was edited to specify that the commentator was Victor Hugo Morales. Perhaps the citation should also be changed to something available online, such as this? http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/news/newsid=1457457.html Zaprowsdower (talk) 13:46, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Maradona's worldcups

I feel the post below has some truths to it, there is a lot of interesting information regarding maradona's performance at every worldcup that is missing here. Can somebody edit more details of 1982? The harsh mark from gentile? 1986 how he won the golden ball by unanimous vote? or in 1990? where Maradona had more than three injuries and was the most fouled player in worldcup history in that tournament, he was also fouled every time he touched the ball in the game against brasil. The handball he did to save argentina from being defeated against USRR after nery pumpido broke his leg? Again the 1990 section makes Maradona look as if he was ordinary in that worldcup which I don't think is very true, as he won the Bronze ball which is not listed here. Important quotes and controversial quotes which also helped his team to the final and his statements after the final before the semifinal Napoli's extreme support for Maradona despite being italians in the semifinal? Ahh forgot how he dribbled past the entire italian defense to assist somebody who missed also ! those were great plays !

Anyways, I feel football fans are missing a lot of interesting information from Diego's worldcups.

More of his performance than his declarations. Then I don't know how wikipedia editing works. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.191.4.240 (talk) 07:02, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Feel free to add information related to these comments provided that you have verifiable and reliable sources for the material. And do sign your comments. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:18, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi I edited some details of the 1986 worldcup, if you find something controversial be sure that I referenced from reliable sources (FIFA.com) and then used secondary sources , the statistics are by the organization of Castrol Index Rankings which FIFA uses for its data, I believe. There's still more information missing from the 1986 worldcup, maradona's dominanced in the group state assisting nearly every goal except one against bulgaria But I don't have time for that.

As for the history of Maradona in 1990 is very rich and much more interesting but I will try to edit that when possible.

Best regards.

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Most experts agree Maradona is one of the greatest players ever, not the greatest

The article is poorly sourced concerning the claims for the best ever player. Views are concentrated on one World Cup performance of Maradona(which Castrol Rankings claim it was not the best ever. Still, a misleading reference used in this article) and on one Internet poll in 2000. Most sources and experts rate Maradona in second and third place. http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/best-x-players-of-y.html#ff-poc, http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5051768.stm, http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2931/go-global/2010/10/22/2178640/over-50-per-cent-of-goalcom-uk-readers-believe-brazilian http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamHons/HonsWldSocPlyrsCent.html, http://goldenfoot.com/pele-the-king-to-be-crowned-in-monte-carlo-at-10th-edition-of-the-golden-foot-awards/, http://www.iffhs.de/?42d03e32a16f43809fa3c17c13c09e20a15ff3c09f32b17f7370eff3702bb1c2bbb6e28fc380de43110f83d00e09 http://latestsports-update.blogspot.se/2012/03/users-of-leo-messi-crowned-marcacom.html, http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2012/04/12/3032147/messi-better-than-maradona-admits-ardiles Lsw10 (talk) 00:00, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

The Greatest?

Hello, I'd like to know why Maradona's article is the only for a footballer that states that he is the greatest footballer of all time. Pelé, Beckenbauer, Cruijff, Garrincha, none of theses player's articles says that. Thank you. 189.104.125.79 (talk) 15:39, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

The first response is that it doesn't say that. It says that some people have described him as such, and then has a vast number of citations to prove that the statement is true.
The other reason is that each article attracts the attention of different editors, and different editors will choose to phrase and construct articles differently. Don't expect formulaic consistency across Wikipedia. Kevin McE (talk) 17:38, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
So if someone wants to edit Pelé's article the same way (and, believe me, a lot more people say he was the best, there are even more sources), noone will revert it? 201.50.41.96 (talk) 20:43, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
And I don't expect "formulaic consistency", I expect impartiality. 201.50.41.96 (talk) 20:57, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Citations about polls, and votes of players and experts should not be deleted. These references should not be deleted from the page. That is vandalism. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7] Considering the whole number of different sources the phrase: Many experts, football critics, former players, current players and football fans in general consider Maradona as one of the greatest football players of all time. is quite accurate.Lsw10 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:46, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/best-x-players-of-y.html#ff-poc
  2. ^ http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/bestbest.html
  3. ^ http://worldsoccer.about.com/od/players/tp/Greatest-Soccer-Players-Of-All-Time.htm
  4. ^ http://www.marca.com/2012/03/09/futbol/equipos/barcelona/1331276984.html
  5. ^ http://footballsgreatest.weebly.com/dream-teams.html#/news/
  6. ^ http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2931/go-global/2010/10/22/2178640/over-50-per-cent-of-goalcom-uk-readers-believe-brazilian
  7. ^ http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamHons/HonsWldSocPlyrsCent.html
Kevin McE, Wikipedia states: Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources. All significant views. That was what my references were about. Editors here only include the FIFA internet poll, the only major poll which Maradona won, and omit prestigious Ballon D'Or, IFFHS, and the most respected football magazines and experts, among them Guerin Sportivo, and World Soccer magazine. Votes from the 30 Ballon D'Or winners in 1999, from the International Federation of Football History and Statistics, and from internet polls from Marca(over 85000 voters) and Goal com are significant and should not be removed or omited.Lsw10 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:26, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Kevin McE,Your reasoning is not sensible at all. Many players have people regarding them as the best ever, that does not mean that their Wikipedia page justifies the description: Regarded by many as the best in history.Lsw10 (talk) 18:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Why did you post that precise claim at an article then? Kevin McE (talk) 20:35, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
The amount of sources supporting that claim in that article justify that description, which was actually not first written by me. I started by just adding further references. Many people have chenged the text content through the years of the article. You are the one who deletes references and leaves the Maradona article much more poorly sourced than I do. Any player can just have a couple of references stating he is the best of all time. It is still a bit misleading. I explained about the value of the Ballon D'Or, and the IFFHS votes. Omiting them indicates a biased point of view. Lsw10 (talk) 20:51, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
With this logic any player who receives a few votes in the Yearly FIFA Ballon D'Or vote, or in fans poll, can justify a comment in his Wikipedia page as something like this: ...x player is considered by many as the current best player in the world. Players like Iniesta, Xavi, Neymar, Cristiano Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Falcao could all have that description and with justification, since there are quite a few who believe that they are the best in the world today.Lsw10 (talk) 21:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
16 refs is plenty. Your intentions here are clear, and unencyclopaedic. Kevin McE (talk) 21:04, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Re your ballon d'Or comments, such temporary comments are clearly inappropriate if undated, but are you suggesting that it would be inaccurate to say that many respected commentators considered any of those to be the best player of the early 2010s? You would clearly be in error to oppose such a statement. Kevin McE (talk) 21:14, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
No, they just three references on the top of the page. Unless you regard as serious references in players like widely unknown scot FRANK McGARVEY and biased Argentines Mario Kempes, Lionel Messi and Maradona's son in law Sergio Aguero! Like I said earlier, then you are the one who should show consistency and edit many players pages who also have claims as the best in the world or the best ever.Lsw10 (talk) 21:20, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Quoting another user, Cambalachero, deleting sources is VANDALISM. "It was mere vandalism, it was undone. Thanks for your contributions Cambalachero (talk) 17:59, 19 April 2012 UTC". Look below at the "Vote" section. No, it would not be inappropriate if it was that specific as you describe now. Naming person. But not generalizing taking advantage of a few quotes. Do not delete references, it is considered vandalism. Lsw10 (talk) 21:27, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Votes

I have added this part giving information on some votes about Maradona but they were deleted. I would like to know why: In 1999, he was came second in the Football Player of the Century vote by the IFFHS International Federation of Football History and Statistics. In the same year French weekly magazine France-Football consulted their former "Ballon D'Or" winners to elect the Football Player of the Century. Maradona came in second place ater Pelé.[1] Lsw10 (talk) 16:18, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

It was mere vandalism, it was undone. Thanks for your contributions Cambalachero (talk) 17:59, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


If you really want to add all those details, why don't you also add in Pele's front page first sentences that he came second to the worldwide online poll done by FIFA and the fact that they had to come up with a committe of experts to choose Pele after he lost the official award?

Pele's article does not mention neither his second place in the online poll, neither his first place in the experts and magazine votes poll. Maradonas's article though only mentions the online poll and fully omits the magazine votes, IFFHS vote and committee vote.Lsw10 (talk)
Wikipedia asks users to put a signature after their posts.

Lsw10 (talk)

Or Why don't you add the fact that maradona also won other awards and the fact that maradona had best singular performance in the history of the worldcup even above Pele himself supported by thousands of sources online? Or the fact that Pele was not really the best player in all the worldcups he won? Even the 1970 statistics done by 100 experts at Castrol Rankings choose Jairzinho over Pele?

Why don't you add those awards then? Use sources about the singular performance in world cups. If you cite Castrol rankings, learn also that Ronaldo has received the highest ever ranking for 2002 World Cup with 9.87, not Maradona for 1986, and that Beckenbauer in 1966 received an average of 9.83, higher than Maradona's 9.80 in 1986.[2] In 1986 World Cup 5 Argentinian players are in the Top 10 of the Castrol Rankings, and Jose Luis Brown has an index of 9.68, very close to Maradona's 9.80.[3] This disproves your claim about "singular performance of Maradona" and your citations to Castrol Rankings. Pele was the best brazilian player in all the matches he played in World Cups, even in the two matches in 1962. In 1958 he was out injured in the first two matches and was the most important in the four matches he played. In 1970 Jairzinho was first in the castrol rankings, but only 3 Brazilians were in the top 10 of the tournament according to Castrol.[4] Look at the references. In 1978 Mario Kempes with 9.84 is another player with a higher score to Maradona, and with only three Argentine players in the Top 10 list of that World Cup. Cruyff receives 9.82 and Lato 9.81 in 1974, higher than Maradona. Castrol rankings are not accurate at all, one example is Ronaldo is not even in the Top 10 for 1998 according to Castrol, when he won the Golden Ball for the best player of the World Cup. Lsw10 (talk)
Pele received the Silver Ball for the second best player of 1958 World Cup and the Award for Best Young Player, and the Golden Ball for the best player of 1970 World Cup. Maradona has a Golden Ball for 1986 and a Bronze Ball for 1990 World Cup. In 1990 Castrol Rankings Argentines Burruchaga and Goycochea make it into the Best 11, not Maradona. That is already under Pele's record, not counting Maradona's underperformance in 1982 and disqualification in 1994.Pele's injuries in 1962 and 1966 World Cups prevented him from playing in many matches.

Lsw10 (talk)

References

  1. ^ France Football's Football Player of the Century Retrieved 1 May 2011
  2. ^ http://www.castrolfootball.com/legends/tournament/index.php?year=1966
  3. ^ http://www.castrolfootball.com/legends/tournament/index.php?year=1986
  4. ^ http://www.castrolfootball.com/legends/tournament/index.php?year=1970

Castrol ranking is relevant only to get the best player from each WC and it is a score of efficiency not a score of the player's skill. Those 5 argentina players had the highest efficiency thanks to Maradona's playmaking skills, look at the goals they scored and all of the goals except for 1 goal of argentina in 1986 went through maradona's foot. Can you say that about any other players? No. Castrol is useless to measure the best player of all WCs, only from each WC, which rightly so puts pele in third place as his performance was not that good compared to Mueller and Jairzinho. And no your edits are biased you only choose the sources that's convenient for you and everyone can see that.

Gk2014 (talk)

My edits are followed by many sources. You talk out of your imagination. If you delete with no reasoning and no citations you will receive the consequences.Lsw10 (talk)

Articles about different athletes in Wikipedia do not have to use the exact same sources to be considered legitimate

I really can't be bothered to read that mess of interspersed and undated comments. You have taken it upon yourself to ensure that the phrase "considered by ... to be the greatest player" is present in Pele's article, while refusing to permit it in this article. That is the pursuit of a POV that is not acceptable, and unless and until you address that issue, your contributions here cannot be assumed to be made in goodwill. Kevin McE (talk) 18:02, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Now that is strange, you say of undated comments for the first time when many users here don't sign their comments. Lsw10 (talk) 22:17, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
There are countless examples of athletes receiving a higher standing over others in Wikipedia. In Tennis players: Roger Federer article says He is considered by many as the best ever. However, the articles of other all time greats like Pete Sampras, Rafael Nadal, Rod Laver and Bjorn Borg merely say that they are considered as among the best ever. Lsw10 (talk) 12:55, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
Your curious habit of placing headers in the middle of ongoing threads and starting threads all over the page and leaving so many unsigned and undated comments has really left this talk page scarcely usable. It is quite simple: a statement was made, acheived consensus and a place in the stable version of this article, is thoroughly referenced and has been challenged only by you. Of course other statements could have been made, and other references would better support that comment. But choosing between different equally true and equally valid comments is an editorial function, and editorial supremacy lies with consensus. Consensus among those editing this article has been with the phrasing Many... consider Maradona to be the greatest football player of all time. Posting refs that would support another phrasing does not alter that fact: refusing to allow that comment here while supporting the equivalent phrasing on another player's article is inconsistent to the point of betraying bias. I would not support anyone posting comments undermining that comment on the Pele article, although as is proven here it would be easy enough to do so.
I shall now remove this article for several weeks: I would challenge you to do the same. We have both had ample opportunity to state our preferences: let the rest of the community see what they wish the article to say. If people agree with you, someone else will soon enough make the changes you suggest, if not, then you will know that consensus does not support what you want the article to say, in which case you trying to make the article say that will never be the right thing to do. Kevin McE (talk) 19:32, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
I don not leave unsigned comments, others do. I don´t start threads all over the place, I have answered to different users refering to me, and if I have started a new thread it was for a different topic inside the article. The article has changed many times throughout the years on that part of "best ever", there is no reason it cannot change again. You say :Posting refs that would support another phrasing does not alter that fact. It does not alter, but one has to choose between the two, the most important thing is which is the most common view and in this case the sources prove that the majority of polls, opinions do not rate Maradona as the the best ever. Another flaw of your version is that it does not permit my references to be cited(they contradict the description), on the contrary a more general description: one of the best ever allows ALL of our references to be included, the ones that say he is the best(only one online poll and some random players) and the ones who say he is among the best but not first(many online polls, most of the all-time greatest footballers and coaches, and pretty much ALL the prestigious football magazines and newspapers). Lsw10 (talk) 00:16, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Castrol Rankings reference article on Goal.com is misleading and should be removed

KevinMcE, Castrol Rankings website does not rate Maradona as the best player ever. Some of websites rankings are used by a Goal.com article to compare Pele and Maradona´s World cup performances of 1970 and 1986. http://www.goal.com/en/news/2939/castrol-football-zone/2010/10/23/2176900/castrol-debate-pele-versus-maradona-the-stats-which-reveal According to Castrol Rankings the best performance in World Cups is of Ronaldo in 2002.(Highest score since its count from 1966) It is a clearly misleading article, only comparing two players and without counting Pele'e first two World Cups, due to lack of footage of all matches to support their analysis. http://www.castrolfootball.com/legends/tournament/index.php?year=2002 The citation is in conflict with the Wikipedia article. Lsw10 (talk) 23:20, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I'll do you a deal. You delete every claim on Pele's page claiming that he is the greatest player, given that the opinion is not unanimous, and I'll tolerate you doing the same here. Until then, do not expect me to believe that your motives are based in anything other than establishing a one-upmanship for your preferred player. (Oh, and new sections on talk pages go at the bottom of the page.) Kevin McE (talk) 00:28, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
What you say does not make any sense at all and you are not even refering to my comment above. Deleting a claim? It is not only my claims you know, there are many people adding references in Pele´s article, and deleting legitimate references is not allowed, only you think it is right. Unanimous? Nothing like this can ever be unanimous when it involves million of peoples opinions around the world, you are making me laugh now. Just because you are prejudiced and do not assume good faith -one of Wikipedias main suggestions when discussing here- it does not mean that someone is biased. I support my views with great references, not using Maradona's son-in-laws biased opinion(Kun Aguero). Another thing you did was deleting the full description of the FIFA 2000 Player of the Century poll, leaving only the ONLINE poll, clearly showing favoritism to Maradona since he won it. I have never seen a single website in the World only mentioning the online poll and completely leaving out the FIFA magazine and experts votes. That is simply unacceptable and true vandalism. Lsw10 (talk) 00:45, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Now to the real topic in this section, the Castrol Rankings. Maybe you did not read well, but the REFERENCE that your version of the article has DOES NOT say Maradona is the BEST EVER, it just makes a comparison of Maradona and Pele in World Cups, therefore it is totally irrelevant and does not belong together with the description of Maradona being the best ever. Castrol Rankings Website actually rates several other players above Maradona even in World Cups. Lsw10 (talk) 00:45, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Greatest WorldCup Performance

There are thousands of sources describing the fact that Maradona in 1986 had the best WorldCup Performance in history. He is widely known for this very reason and why he is considered one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest.

I think it should be put in the top of the article with sources. It's not an opinion really, it's a fact widespread among the entire footballing community.

Gk2014 (talk)

Other sources, like the Castrol Rankings(which some refer to here for the wrong reasons) say that Ronaldo in 2002 has the greatest World Cup performance of all time. He got a score of 9.87 over Maradona's 9.80. Other players who received a higher score than Maradona were Beckenbauer in 1966(9.83), Cruyff(9.82) and Lato in 1974(9.81), and Kempes in 1978(9.84). Lsw10 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:46, 21 September 2012 (UTC)


No, that's a score of efficiency and the score varies in different worldcups due to their attacking styles era and goals per game and team. Maradona had the most contribution in any WC and the most influence during any worldcup than any other player and this is even said in the castrol ranking page "single handedly won the worldcup". Ronaldo had the highest because he was efficient and how? look at his goals...they are joke they were easy compared to maradona's 2nd best goal in history (belgium) and england's. What you can get from those rankings is the best player from each WC, not all WCs and this is why Pele was third, he wasn't that influential and efficient relative to the others muller and jairzinho. All the footballing community agrees that Diego had the best performance on a singular WC ever this is backed up by thousands of articles online and documentals and videos.

Gk2014 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:10, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

The lead

I have restored part of the lead to simply say "He was joint FIFA Player of the 20th Century with Pelé."

User:69.117.45.144 has insisted on fluffing that out, trying to make it look like Pele was not worthy of the accolade, and has been reverted by other editors as well. When I last reverted him he advised me to come to the talk page, so here I am.

User:69.117.45.144 has clearly disclosed bias on this. A month ago, he argued that information should not be in this article because it is about Maradona, not Pele, and said in reality maradona was the real winner of this award. He's wrong. They were joint winners, as the references show. Information added by 69.117.45.144 made the lead section look like an actual article, not summarising facts, but making a political/POV/fanzine one-sided point. So I have reverted again. It could be useful to have a FIFA Player of the 20th Century section in the article, but it could never survive if it was a POV pro Maradonna anti Pele thinkpiece. Moriori (talk) 23:45, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Agreed --Trödel 16:54, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
What he wrote has been written in the below sections a long time ago. However "original winner" is being really biased. It was a total scandal with what happened in that award. Also why did you remove the second statement: " He is also widely regarded to be the only player in the history of the game to have won the FIFA World Cup virtually single-handedly" which is backed up by sources from all kinds. At least that part was true. I sense bias here as well from you two. Natsunoyuutsu (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:36, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
No-one wins a World Cup on their own, and the "virtually" part is a get out: that means he had some help from others which makes it a team game, which we know. Sorry there is no way that this woolly statement will ever be more than someone's opinion. Britmax (talk) 19:41, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
You could put "best worldcup performance of all time" instead, but you decided to delete it all which is what they mean by winning "alone". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.117.45.144 (talk) 06:45, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Natsunoyuutsu, the article lead does not say "original winner" so there is no bias. It says "joint FIFA Player of the 20th Century with Pelé". He is. Moriori (talk) 22:16, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Full name is Diego Armando Maradona

Why add the mother's family name, when it is not the practice in Argentina? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.58.250 (talk) 17:50, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

What preceeding comment say is true. In Argentina, Spanish name customs are only optionally followed and it is still rather uncommon. Maradona's legal name is "Diego Armando Maradona" and not "Diego Armando Maradona Franco" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.167.159.183 (talk) 00:48, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

why no "time to fap" meme refrence in the popular culture section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.234.248.32 (talk) 16:15, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Cheating

"The goal itself has been viewed as being an embodiment of the Buenos Aires shantytown Maradona was brought up in and it's concept of viveza criolla — native cunning.[69]"

Others would call it cheating. Or at best poor sportsmanship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.9.151.254 (talk) 05:25, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

nicknames

How come his two (most used) nioknames are not really mentioned? El Diez or Pelusa.

Everyone that knows him, pretty much knows him as "Pelusa" ... so its strange the nicknames are not really mentioned (ok in one section they are mentioned, but not very specific as his nickname) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.131.89.132 (talk) 20:11, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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"Single" surname

FC Barcelona's website (.com) does not say that "Maradona" is his only family name. SLBedit (talk) 19:03, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Diego Armando Maradona is his full name. It is not Argentine custom to include his mothers maiden name. His full name is commonly trotted out in the media (in similar vein to Pele). In Spanish-speaking countries, Maradona's goal of the century is usually associated to its live commentary by Uruguayan journalist Víctor Hugo Morales (translation from Spanish):

He's going to pass it to Diego, there's Maradona with it, two men on him, Maradona steps on the ball, there goes down the right flank the genius of world football, he leaves the wing and he's going to pass it to Burruchaga... Always Maradona! Genius! Genius! Genius! There, there, there, there, there, there! Goaaaaaaaal! Goaaaaaaal! I want to cry, oh holy God, long live football! What a goal! Die-goal! Maradona! It's to cry, excuse me! Maradona, in a memorable run, in the best play of all times! Little cosmic comet, which planet did you come from, to leave so many Englishmen behind, so that the country becomes a clenched fist crying for Argentina? Argentina 2, England 0! Die-goal, Die-goal, Diego Armando Maradona! Thank you, God, for football, for Maradona, for these tears, for this Argentina 2, England 0.

— Víctor Hugo Morales

"Everyone has an opinion on Diego Armando Maradona, and that’s been the case since his playing days."—FIFA President Sepp Blatter.Carlos Rojas77 (talk) 19:33, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Okay, but then we don't need to have fcbarcelona.com as reference, because it doesn't explain his only surname like you did. SLBedit (talk) 19:38, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

The greatest vs one of the greatest

According to the sources, many people consider Maradona the greatest of all time; many other people consider Pele the greatest; and many other people consider Messi the greatest. We can say all three of those things. They can't all be the greatest, however they can all be considered the greatest by many people. -- Irn (talk) 14:33, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

@Britmax: You say "Consensus is \"one of", for anyone. Take it to the talk page." As you can see, I took it here months ago and received no response. Where is this consensus you speak of? -- Irn (talk) 14:53, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

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Maradona Ancestry

Sources state Maradona is a Galician surname (indeed it is not present in Italy, only in the Galician coast of Spain). Apparently he also has a Croat ancestor on his mother's side. Asilah1981 (talk) 13:54, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

As per Spanish-language wikipedia, Maradona has "Galician, Croatian and Indigenous-American ancestry". There is nothing to support any Italian origin. The journalist of Time magazine must have made the common mistake of assuming the "Maradona" is an Italian surname. I have added a Spanish-language source which explains how common it is for people to make this erroneous assumption. Asilah1981 (talk) 14:07, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

What makes galicia.swred.com a WP:Reliable source? Maradona may very well be Spanish rather than Italian, but unless you provide a biography, newspaper or other legitimate reference to support it, your changes cannot be accepted. Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 07:19, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Prayer for the wild at heart I have provided quite a few sources, all of them in the language of Argentina i.e. Spanish. It is what is written on the Spanish language wikipedia article which is a starred "good article". Here is another source. http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/hemeroteca/2004/05/20/2696591.shtml Why argue this point? I don't understand, particularly since practically all Argentines have at least partial Spanish ancestry, and probably a good 40% have full or near full Spanish ancestry. His surname is from the small coastal villages of Arante, vilamartín Grande and Vilamartín Pequeño in the province of Lugo in the region of Galicia. Maradona does not have any known Italian roots nor surnames, so I could equally say that saying he does (which is patently false) cannot be accepted. In the end he will just be Croatian. :-) Asilah1981 (talk) 09:27, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
"Spanish wikipedia says so" and "it's common sense" are not credible arguments for inclusion. As for your last point: the surname Maradona is far more common in Italy than it is in Spain, so its Spanish origins aren't proof of Diego Maradona's ancestry. Please provide a reliable source or drop it. Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 10:40, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Prayer for the wild at heart As per sources provided the surname Maradona DOES NOT EXIST in Italy. I would rather you provided a source which states the contrary or drop it. Do you speak Spanish? It seems you are not understanding the sources. Asilah1981 (talk) 11:27, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
All the Maradonas of Argentina descend from Francisco Fernández de Maradona, born c. 1700, in San Pedro de Arante, Ribadeo, Galicia, Spain, and from his wife, Francisca Arias de Molina y Jofré. They moved to Argentina in 1745. Diego’s maternal grandparents were Atanancio Ramón Edisto Franco and Salvadora Kariolić/Cariolichi (the daughter of Matej Kariolić and Trinidad Creole Ferreira). Matej was Croatian.A few more sources: http://surnames.behindthename.com/name/maradona, http://www.heraldicapellido.com/M3/Maradona.htm, http://www.meaningofname.org/whatmeans.php/Maradona. I just don't see any Italian connection here, I don't know why you are trying to push this.Asilah1981 (talk) 12:15, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
See here. I really don't know how to make my point any clearer. WP:V is a core principle of this project. Until you add a reliable source that specifically says that Diego Maradona is of Spanish ancestry, the information cannot stay. Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 06:52, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
Really? That is your "source"? A dodgy commercial website which shows Maradona as a name typical of Egypt, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia? Please give me a break, I'm really trying hard to Assume Good Faith with you. Maradona is a surname not present in Italy: Look here in an ITALIAN register of surnames by commune with all the surnames present in the census: http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turismo-viaggi-e-tradizioni-italia?t=cognomi&cognome=Maradona&x=0&y=0#.WACdRcnwi5o We need something beyond a mistake by a Time Magazine journalist to contradict a good dozen sources contradicting his statement that Maradona "can claim Italian ancestry". By the way, there have been Maradonas in Argentina since the 1700s, long before Italian immigration in Argentina started. Some famous Maradonas from the 18th century even have their own wikipedia page! https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Ignacio_Maradona In any case the statement that Maradona is of Galician origin is now sufficiently well backed with sources and article is fine as it stands. Enough valid sources confirm he is Galician. I see some even name the full name and birth place of his ancestor Maradona who immigrated from Galicia. His Croatian origin is also confirmed. Only the allegation of Italian ancestry is denied by all Argentine and Spanish language (and now Italian language) sources so it fails your WP:V test which you think somehow only applies to the opposing argument, not your own. I honestly don't understand people who are incapable of backing out and saying "ok I was wrong". Unless you have some strong emotional need for Maradona to be Italian, you should just let it go.Asilah1981 (talk) 09:27, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
So you maintain that you have provided a reliable source, i.e. a biography, journal or newspaper article that specifically mentions Diego Maradona's Spanish ancestry. In that case if you could please quote the exact sentence or passage here, that would be very helpful. Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 13:51, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

RFC: Maradona of Spanish or Italian ancestry?

(non-admin closure) Consensus is to omit ancestry, largely because it is impossible to determine based on contradictory sources. WP:BLP does not permit us to form conclusions not explicitly found in reliable sources.- MrX 01:56, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Is Diego Armando Maradona of Spanish or Italian ancestry?Asilah1981 (talk) 12:51, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

An editor here considers that 1) It is verified that Maradona has Italian ancestry and 2) that "it is not verified" that he has Spanish (Galician) ancestry. On this basis, the firs skirmishes of an edit war have prompted me to start an RfC so other editors can comment. I would like to point out the following:

For now, this should be enough. I have just had a first look into sources but can find more.Asilah1981 (talk) 14:18, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

A quick google search gives me the following sources:
–Jonathan Wilson, in his (brilliant) new book Angels with Dirty Faces: The Footballing History of Argentina, writes: "[Maradona] is, he proudly says, a ‘cabecita negra’ – ‘a little black head’ – descended from poor Italian and Guaraní stock, a labourer from the lowest reaches of society."
–Jimmy Burns says, in Maradona: The Hand of God (2011), "As a child he discovered that his parents – Indian mixed with poor Italian immigrant – belonged to a [lowly] sector of society."
–Tony Mason writes in Passion of the People?: Football in South America (1995): "Maradona was born in Lanús, in Buenos Aires, into a poor family of Italian descent."
Spanish? As long as it's appropriately sourced, we can add that he's from Mars for all I care. Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 14:52, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
Hmmm then if there are English language sources which contradict all Spanish-language sources (as well as other English/Italian language sources and Maradona himself, who stated on Spanish TV in 2006 he wished to visit the village of his ancestors in Lugo), we have a problem. The fact is that it is an easy mistake to make since to all of us "Maradona" does sound Italian even though it is not. But there is no question that Maradona is a surname originating in Spain and only in Spain. I have come across sources in English making gross mistakes before and my experience in Wikipedia is that they can be corrected through a combination of evidence, reason and proper sourcing. IMO we have all three nailed down. Prayer for the wild at heart Do you understand Spanish and Italian and are you able to read the sources I have provided? Ideally the mistake should be corrected, worst case scenario, the contradiction between sources should be explained in the relevant section. Asilah1981 (talk) 15:45, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Comment I think you can clarify: 1. Maradona is a spanish origin lastname per sources, and he has Spanish ancestory; 2. Maradona is mistaken as an Italian last name.CuriousMind01 (talk) 12:15, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Comment The origin of the surname is irrelevant (Obama has several European countries in his ancestry, how would you know that from the name?). There appear to be sources saying he claims Italian ancestry, are there sources saying THIS Maradona claims to be Spanish? There are other ways of acquiring a 'family name' than ancestry. Pincrete (talk) 20:25, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Pincrete Yes there are. Please see above (albeit sources are in Spanish). Also I would mention that no English-language sources provided above says he personally claims Italian ancestry. Italian ancestry seems to be attributed/presumed, quite likely from a misunderstanding of the origin of his surname.Asilah1981 (talk) 23:14, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Pincrete is right; we need a source that explicitly supports Spanish ancestry. And that source needs to be reliable. (Spanish Wikipedia, for example, said he was of Italian descent until a year ago when it was changed to Spanish by an IP editor.)
Of the sources listed above only La Voz de Galicia can be considered in line with WP:RS. As far as I can tell with my beginners' level Spanish, it only discusses the origin of his surname, but I could be mistaken. Asilah1981, would you please quote the sentence that specifically says his ancestors were Spanish?
Above you also mentioned an interview in which he discusses his Spanish ancestry. Of course that would be the best source to use. Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 07:32, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Deleted the whole lot. This is not the place for poorly sourced polemic and attempts to garner some reflected pride. Sources are thoroughly unconvincing; if surname is linked to mid eighteenth century as claimed above that is evidence of about 0.1% of bloodline. Nationality of putative ancestors several generations ago entirely irrelevant. None of the sources give any grounds for confidence in rigorous research. BLP: "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately" Kevin McE (talk) 08:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Maradona's ancestry is not irrelevant to his biography. His indigenous ancestry helped shape his family's socio-economic status and consequently the man he became. That said, I agree with your removal; poorly sourced material is not okay. Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 09:59, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Pincrete Let me explain. Messi is of Italian ancestry, Pope Bergoglio is of Italian ancestry, Cholo Simeone, Di Stefano, Mascherano are of Italian ancestry and a long etc... IMO its quite simple, Maradona is an obscure Galician surname which sounds extremely Italian. In a country like Argentina where Italian origin is common, it is normal that a non-native biographer will assume "Maradona" to be so as well, without actually looking into it. However, one should note (out of interest) that an Argentine with visible indigenous ancestry is more likely to descend from the Spanish Criollos who mixed with the Indians in pre-colonial times than from the mass wave of Europeans (Italians, Spaniards and others) who came after independence, coinciding with the Native American genocide which resulted from independence and this immigrationary pressure. An Italian Argentine can only have Amerindian ancestry by virtue of intermarriage with an old Spanish Criollo or Mestizo family. It is not really a mark of socio-economic status but of how far back in time one's ancestors arrived in Argentina, increasing the likelihood of non-European ancestry. Areas with less post-colonial immigration (like Salta or Jujuy for example) also have more native american ancestry. In any case, the article has a picture of Maradona on it and discusses the origin of his surname specifically. The point is that these sources cast serious doubt on assumptions made by these English-language biographies. If you go to Lionel Messi's article in Spanish wikipedia, you have 5 Spanish language sources discussing where exactly in Italy his grandparents originate from/were born. Same goes for pretty much all notable Italo-Argentines. Why not Maradona? Because his surname is simply not Italian and the only source we have actually looking into his ancestries are the ones provided: These certify Galician and Croatian origins. The rest is just hearsay or assumptions. Sources which specifically aim to look into the matter at hand should take priorities over sources which make a sloppy passing comment. Even the Croatian source states he has Spanish and Croatian origin. Asilah1981 (talk) 19:10, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Asilah1981, I understand perfectly well, I also understand that nations are often keen to claim someone famous as 'one of their own'. My first post says clearly 'The origin of the surname is irrelevant', this is not an article about the surname, it is an article about one individual and we can reasonably assume that he knows his own ancestry, or at least the part of it which he knows about and deems important, and with BLP's the individual's assessment normally trumps other's assessment unless there is some good reason. His own assessment definitely trumps analysis of the name. To use the Obama's again, he has an African name, but is 50% European, she is 95+% African but has a European family name, so what? Pincrete (talk) 22:22, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Pincrete I don't think any nation would like to claim Maradona, considering he is a long term drug addict, an awful coach and a rather spiteful character. The point is that no source says that Maradona himself claims Italian ancestry, so I don't see the relevance of the "individual assessment" argument. I personally have seen him on La Sexta TV discuss his Galician ancestry during an interview. The sources you have provided (wrongly) claim on his behalf that he has Italian or literally that "he can claim Italian" ancestry on the basis of the author's misinterpretation of the surname's origin. No source quotes him himself claiming Italian ancestry, evidently because he does not have Italian ancestry and knows this to be so. The Michelle Obama example doesn't hold, Maradona is not the descendant of African slaves who took their master's surname. Asilah1981 (talk) 16:43, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
My point holds, you cannot conclude anything from the origins of a surname. Pincrete (talk) 17:07, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
Pincrete If you believe that I guess you don't know much about Argentina and its history. What we can't conclude anything from is from a mistake by a sloppy sports writer or English biographer. By the way, Che Guevara is stated to be of "Basque" origin on wikipedia, purely on the basis that "Guevara" is a Basque surname (specifically from Alava province). No one has any idea who this ancestor was or where the surname is from, he came to what is now Argentina centuries ago, but this seems sufficient for multiple sources to categorically claim he is Basque and for Wikipedia to consider him Basque - on the basis of him descending from someone who, for all we know could have been a Conquistador or settler from anywhere in Spain. I actually had a discussion about this on the talk page of that article.Asilah1981 (talk) 17:28, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
No actually, my comment shows that I do know something about WP policies. We cannot reach a conclusion on what logically must be the case or because we cannot prove the contrary. If RS say he is from Mars, so be it. If RS don't agree, we either represent the various claims or we forget the whole issue. For the purposes of this discussion, the origin of the surname may or may not be a clue, but cannot prove anything. If you are right about 'Che', it is clearly bad editing. Pincrete (talk) 18:11, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
Well all I can propose as a compromise is that the contradiction between sources be noted and non of them be presented as fact - I think that is something you also seem to be in agreement with.Asilah1981 (talk) 18:17, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
And if you agree that neither can be presented as fact, then BLP requires that nothing be said abut it at all. This is about as relevant as saying that he has family origins in East Africa (because every human has) or that he is descended in part from Neanderthals (like everyone with European bloodlines). Kevin McE (talk) 09:52, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Delete all mention of European ancestry per Kevin McE's recommendation. I see no clear proof either way, and this looks like fodder for nationalist editing. Called by bot. -Darouet (talk) 15:25, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Butcher from Bilbao

I have removed (pending approval of the modification) the reference to the nickname "The butcher from Bilbao" for Athletic Bilbao defender Andoni Goikoetxea. I think such editorializing belongs to yellow journalism and has no place in an encyclopedic article that is not even about Goikoetxea. 88.14.18.253 (talk) 11:30, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

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Live is life warm up

Could someone explain why his famous warm up in 1989 is not mentioned on this page? It is one of the most iconic warm ups in the history of soccer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vashrNoXTE

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/04/17/diego-maradona-live-is-life_n_5164688.html

Uitbreiding (talk) 10:12, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

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lead section

We have articles on Lionel Messi, Diego Maradona, Pelé, and probably other footballers all stating some variation of them being widely considered the greatest in history or of all time. At Talk:Cristiano Ronaldo, it was proposed to use the same language after Ronaldo's recent Ballon d'Or and subsequent hype. The very fact that we have at least three articles making the same claim, not to mention the perpetual "greatest of all time" debates that occur in every sport, suggests that all these articles should say: "widely considered to be one of the greatest ever" or equivalent to comply with WP:NPOV. It is obviously a fiercely debated topic and stating any one player as "the greatest" is non-encyclopedic. I have accordingly made this change but I am obviously open to establishing a consensus for the preferred language. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:16, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

First, this conversation should not be happening at the same time on multiple talk pages. It needs to be happening in just one place.
But to the merits, there's nothing un-encyclopedic about saying that many in the sport consider [x] to be the greatest of all time on multiple pages. We're not saying that all of them are the greatest or even that all of them are considered the greatest by most, just by many. And they are all considered by many people (whose opinions on this matter) to be the greatest of all time. That's factual, logical, encyclopedic, and very, very relevant to their respective articles.
Just as an idea, would it make sense to create an article on this topic? Something like Greatest football player of all time where we can discuss all of them, which "greatest" accolades they've received, which people think which person is the greatest, etc.? -- irn (talk) 19:48, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
@Irn:, as I explained at the logical such "one place": I have opened three separate discussions instead of one centralized one here because there may be differing reasons for each to revert, modify, or support the change. People can easily follow the links from that notification to here and to the other conversations, if they wish. Or they can continue the conversation at the Project board, whatever they wish. It's about providing options. To reply to your other arguments, it looks silly for Wikipedia to be descending into a debate that is non-factual and entirely opinion-based which has no answer. How do you propose to sort those whose opinions on this matter? Only coaches, only "respected" sports journalists? How do we define "respected"? Do we consider every opinion on "the greatest" to matter? Do we start having strings of citations to Quora and onefootballforum and ESPN fan sites? There's no logical cut-off for where one opinion is acceptable and citable and another isn't so we might as well acknowledge them all and equally aacknowledge the unsolvable di-tri-qua-quin-whatever-lemma. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:45, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
I've copied the relevant parts of this conversation and responded there. -- irn (talk) 17:15, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

A subject like "Greatest football player of all time" is not something that can actually be measured, so it's more correct to just write "one of the best...". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.111.233.230 (talk) 19:57, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Don’t listen to Eggishorn. He’s trying to push his own agenda. No one has used Quora or ESPN fan sites to state that Pele, Messi or Maradona are the best ever. People have actually used The Guardian, Telegraph, The Independent and other valuable publications. I only made this account because he’s completely ignoring the relevant citations. SonqreQ (talk) 22:45, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

I agree with SonreQ, although it seems that Ronaldo fans are responsible for this. Unhappy that Messi is generally considered the greatest, alongside Pele and Maradona, they are wanting the sentences of all to state the same thing, including Ronaldo. This is nonsense, as Ronaldo is never, and never has been, widely considered to be the greatest of all time, whereas Pele, Maradona and Messi have. It is clearly a bias by Ronaldo fans who lack objectivity. If we now have Ronaldo being described in similar terms as Maradona and Pele, then Wikipedia is a complete joke. FourFourTwo recently compiled a 100 greatest footballers of all time, which might be of interest to Egghorn, who it seems is attempting some sort of objectivity, but is perhaps lacking a clear understanding of the subject, as Maradona, Pele and Messi are generally considered above all other players. O'Flannery (talk) 23:50, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

@O'Flannery:, I thank you for assumiing my good faith in this. I'm not the most avid follower of the sport but I'd like to think I'm not completely ignorant. E.g., I'll admit to having a soft spot for Franz Beckenbauer above any of the ones discussed so far but I'd not seriously argue that he should get "best of all time" treatment. My interest here is only in trying to ensure that these articles treat their subjects similarly because the sources I see treat them similarly. If WP:CONSENSUS weighs against me, then I have to accept it. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 15:20, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

This keeps getting reverted, but no one who reverts is participating in this conversation. That many people in the sport consider Maradona to be the greatest of all time is a fact and it is well-sourced. That many others consider other people to be the greatest of all time does not negate that; it merely means that it is not unanimous, which "many" implies. -- irn (talk) 14:52, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

I agree, irn. It is incredibly well sourced, and anyone with more than a passing interest in football must surely be aware that Maradona is considered by many as the greatest of all time. It has been generally acknowledged for so long that I fail to see how anyone can actually object to that statement.O'Flannery (talk) 15:59, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Dynamo Brest

In 14 May he became chairman of Brest — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:60A:A100:A0F1:B8F8:420A:73DB (talk) 18:09, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2018

Pelé scored more goals. Lionel Messi has won more trophies. Both have lived more stable lives than the overweight former cocaine addict who tops this list, whose relationship with football became increasingly strained the longer his career continued. If you’ve seen Diego Maradona with a football at his feet, you’ll understand.

— Andrew Murray on Maradona topping FourFourTwo magazine's 100 greatest players list, July 2017.[93]

This line is in the style of play section and has nothing to do with Maradona's style of play. It is instead comparing the amount of goals he scored to Pele and the amount of trophies he won compared to Messi. Neither of which has anything to do with style of play, they are to do with accomplishments.

Please just delete this paragraph it has nothing to do with this section. 

Barrbarr1990 (talk) 22:56, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — LeoFrank  Talk 18:09, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

ONE of the greatest???????

I see Messi fans doing whatever they want in Wikipedia. what a joke! 

yes you're right  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Floydtim091 (talk • contribs) 01:42, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Time has not yet ended

"Many in the sport, including football writers, players, and fans, regard him as the greatest football player of all time." Why would anyone believe such a thing? Time has not yet ended. 31.52.252.166 (talk) 17:01, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

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Discussion about whom

The second sentence of the lead states "He is widely regarded as one of the greatest football players of all time."

The claim needs the usual kinds of sources to remain in the article. Has anybody got one or more? Twistlethrop (talk) 08:12, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

I Changed....

i made one change. i put the current name for the 60m goal for us, the argentinians. its name is "The cosmic kite" or "el barilete cosmico"

Someone with permission pls edit!! - in the 1994 World Cup section it says Romania kicked Argentina out, it should be Bulgaria. The result was Argentina 0 - 2 Bulgaria.


Maradona's Father

Maradona's father was born on November 12, 1927 in Esquina, Corrientes (https://caras.perfil.com/noticias/celebridades/2015-06-30-41351-don-diego-el-padre-de-dios.phtml) and died on June 25, 2015 in Palermo, Buenos Aires (https://www.clarin.com/deportes/don-diego-red_0_rJye37wtD7e.html). Will someone include this please? 2605:E000:121C:8B69:184A:3D8C:EF9D:9391 (talk) 23:34, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Transfer to Boca

Maradona was not transferred to Boca Juniors, but played there as a loan for one year in exchange for 4 million plus the final transfer to Argentinos Juniors of 4 players and the loan of 2 more players for a year with his contract pay by Boca Juniors. I don't know why this loan is always referred to as a definitive transfer --181.29.125.114 (talk) 22:18, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

A diplomatic passport?

I heard about that he was given a dipldomatic status with a jumbo passport to add. This was given just as he turned 18, and was heading for Europe. No one knows what either confirms....or disconfirms this. Anything to add on this point?

Argentina U20 appearances

Hi. Does anyone have a source about Maradona's appearances for Argentina U20? All I was able to find is this document about the 1979 FIFA World Youth Championship, but I was not able to find any reliable source about his supposed games at the 1977 and 1979 South American U-20 Championships. Thanks. --Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 19:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Nevermind, I found them. I will update the page soon.--Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 19:52, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2020

Died 25th November 2020 due to a cardiac arrest. 2.27.81.149 (talk) 16:37, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2020 (2)

Death = 25/11/2020 Cause = Cardiac Arrest 2001:8F8:1E23:A173:25F3:6987:793F:6B53 (talk) 16:39, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2020 (3)

Diego Maradona has passed away, on the 25th of November 2020, due to sudden cardiac arrest https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8986821/Diego-Maradona-died-suffering-cardiac-arrest-according-reports.html NoahRushaidat (talk) 16:55, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

 Already done P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 16:57, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2020 (4)

92.232.180.44 (talk) 18:00, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Diego Maradona passed away on 25th November 2020

 Already done - info is already in the article. Giraffer munch 18:18, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Info box image

Why does it keep changing? I was wondering if we should have a poll on what people prefer? Govvy (talk) 19:28, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Now that he's passed away, recency is no longer a factor in the image. Rather, we use a photo of when the person was the most renowned. Benica11 (talk) 19:42, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Hes barely known as a coach so the 1986 player pic should be used Binho24 (talk) 20:50, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2020 (6)

new image for the section in popular culture Vincenzo.togni (talk) 20:10, 25 November 2020 (UTC) thumb|Diego Maradona in Naples (2019)

 Not done: The section already has 4 images, there isn't room for more. Cambalachero (talk) 21:58, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Immediate death

This is my first time editing a page about a living person who just died today. Does anyone know the procedure or have the link to the page explaining it? It would be greatly appreciated! Double Plus Ungood (talk) 16:34, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/argentinian-soccer-icon-diego-maradona-dead-at-60
Wasn't there a problem with using that page as a source? I would prefer to wait for big sites like CNN. Cambalachero (talk) 16:54, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, exactly. I meant a link to Wikipedia MoS as to how this kind of procedure is done lol. This specific situation is hard to find. Double Plus Ungood (talk) 01:21, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2020 (5)

The abstract concerning 1994 World Cup contains a factual error. Argentina were eliminated in the second round by Bulgaria (and not Romania, as the article reads currently) 46.114.39.158 (talk) 20:24, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Not true. Bulgaria didn't play Argentina in the second round. Moriori (talk) 21:04, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 Not done Although Argentina lost 0-2 to Bulgaria, it still had enough points to advance from Group D into the Round of 16. There Argentina lost 2-3 to Romania and was out of the World Cup. Cambalachero (talk) 01:36, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

What is going on??

Why are there so many pending edits? Is this person dead? P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 16:26, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it has been announced as we write here. Being who he is, there are loads and loads of people coming here to edit the article. Someone should add {{Recent death}} to the top. Cambalachero (talk) 16:32, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
The tag should be removed.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:31, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Death

Should we move the comments about Maradona's recent hospitalization and emergency brain surgery to the sub-section about his drug abuse and health issues? The reason why I am proposing this is because Maradona died from a heart attack, and that his heart attack seemed to not be related to his recent hospitalization. Feel free to leave your thoughts on this minor issue. Leiwang7 (talk) 17:34, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Franco

Many sources call him "Diego Armando Maradona Franco", but the second last name is repeatedly removed from the page. Whatever this is about, it needs to be mentioned in the article. 46.114.105.116 (talk) 17:34, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

"Franco" is the last name of his mother. Perhaps other countries have other uses, but in Argentina someone only takes the last name of the father, unless he makes some special legal arrangement (that he did not). He's legally "Diego Armando Maradona", and people and sources know him under that name. Cambalachero (talk) 17:46, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Cambalachero, I don't doubt what you are saying, but for the benefit of the Wikipedia community, could you post a citation that supports what might be common knowledge in Argentina regarding last names and what is retained to help clarify the comment bad above? I found one source but cannot say with certainty that this commonly accepted. See https://www.ciee.org/sites/default/files/content/hsib/orientation/argentina.pdf Jurisdicta (talk) 23:03, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia:You don't need to cite that the sky is blue. You may find one or two sources that call him "Diego Armando Maradona Franco", against millions and millions who use either "Diego Armando Maradona" or just "Diego Maradona". Cambalachero (talk) 23:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time

One of the greatest football players, or one of the greatest sportsmen? It would help if this statement in the introduction were changed to "one of the greatest footballers of all time" or if the sentence were expanded to indicate that it means across all of sport. It has two sources, but one doesn't talk about any "greatest" ratings and the other is no longer working. 108.39.223.134 (talk) 13:53, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

was a football player [...] widely considered one of the greatest players. Its clear that "fooball player" is meant Binho24 (talk) 14:24, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
I think that calling him a great sportsman will lead to a long argument as the idea that some of his off-field habits are not to be sniffed at. Whereas he was undoubtedly a very good footballer. Britmax (talk) 14:29, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
"Sportsmen" may be far too subjective as a claim. Is Diego Maradona better or worse than, say, Michael Jordan and Roger Federer? Under which criteria? How can we compare players of football, basketball, and tennis? Leave it at just his specific field. Cambalachero (talk) 14:52, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
We could look at the admitted cheating record of these sportsmen. How many times did Jordan deliberately cheat, in order to defeat the opposition? Has Federer ever knowingly broken the rules to win a game? What sort of illegal drugs did Jordan, Federer and Maradona do during their playing career? After their playing career? This sort of criteria. -Roxy the inedible dog . wooF 15:52, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
It was a rhetorical question. Thing is, you can't say that either of them is better, nobody can be the "best sportsmen" because you can't compare apples and oranges. Cambalachero (talk) 21:28, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
The point is that he doesn't deserve comparison with great sportsmen like those, and others, because he was far from being a sportsman. He was a cheat and an addict with footballing ability. -Roxy the inedible dog . wooF 14:56, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

RfC Lead Image

I feel that the current lead image is a bit blurry. I have no problem if its a photo of Maradona in his prime even if it dates back a few years, but the current lead image is very blurry. Here I'll list some good candidates for lead image. Feel free to add some images. I am adding this on the talk page for discussion to avoid a potential "edit war" over lead image. This way the lead image can be placed with consensus thus avoiding a tug of war over which image is the best. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 13:47, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

  • Option A
    Option A
  • Option B
    Option B
  • Option C (original lead image before death)
    Option C
    (original lead image before death)
  • Option D
    Option D
  • Option E
    Option E
  • Option F
    Option F
  • Option G (current lead image)
    Option G
    (current lead image)
  • Option H
    Option H
  • Option I
    Option I
The five images of the younger Maradonna on the right are all PD in Argentina, according to the information on Commons. They are too new to be PD in the US, and have no free licences. William Avery (talk) 15:37, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
  • @William Avery: That would complicate the stance for the lead image currently in the infobox right now. What image would you prefer? --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:53, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
I don't have a strong opinion, but I thought editors should be aware of how some of the images were tagged on Commons. William Avery (talk) 08:49, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Option D for me, has more neutral tone than the others. Govvy (talk) 16:28, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Option G It has to be a picture as a player (E-I). I think G is the best one. The world cup 1986 was the time, which made him legendary. --HSV1887 (talk) 19:11, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Option G. It should be a photo of him as a player, and for it to be at Mexico '86 (where he scored 2 of the most discussed goals in history and won his only WC) is ideal. G is the clearest and highest quality one there meeting those standards. 824GOAT (talk) 09:49, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Option G at his playing and cheating peak, as he should be remembered. -Roxy the inedible dog . wooF 20:20, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Option G, Maradona at his best, the World Cup that made him a legend. No doubt about it. Fma12 (talk) 02:13, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

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Author name

Hi. Yesterday I added the current infobox image for the article. However, I couldn't find any information about the author of the photo, and this information is necessary so that the image will not be deleted from Commons. Could someone help me to find the author of the photo? Here is the link. Thank you. --Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 16:36, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Mazewaxie:, I'm sorry to tell you that the photo you uploaded will be surely removed from Commons so the source is a French magazine (not public domain according to EU rules). As this photo was most probably taken in Mexico during the World Cup, it is protected because hat country has a long term for PD images (30 years after the author's death). Because of that, I suggest you to restore the previous image at the infobox so Commons is plenty of Maradona photos dressed as player, which are PD (Argentina) (there is another good image here as well). Regards, Fma12 (talk) 19:21, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi @Fma12:, I'm pretty sure that the photo was not taken in Mexico '86, since Maradona had shorter hair during that tournament. By the way, I'm currently searching for the author, because the French magazine source is recent, but the photo was already circulating on the internet, so it could still be from Argentina. I'll try to find more information, since I think it's a perfect image for the article. I wish you a nice day :) --Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 19:42, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Heritage should be changed: Father had Galician/Spanish heritage and better specified his Croatian heritage

His father is of Galician heritage besides Croatian. Here all their bloodline in Geni and an article in their heritage with genealogic records.

His Galician bloodline since his great great grandfather arrived to Argentina https://www.geni.com/people/Francisco-Fern%C3%A1ndez-de-Maradona-y-Fuentes/6000000009889112409

Also about his Croatian heritage (mother side). His great grandfather was Croatian that's why her first daughter was named "Dalma". Here it only said a journalist said it has distant Coratian heritage. It should be change to a Croatian great gradfather and that's the reaso why he named her daughter Dalma.

His great grandfather was Matej Kariolić: https://www.geni.com/people/Matej-Karioli%C4%87/6000000025313772092

https://www.eldia.com/nota/2020-11-26-12-16-0-el-especial-homenaje-de-croacia-a-diego-maradona-deportes 

https://blog.myheritage.es/2010/06/diego-armando-maradona-de-ascendencia-croata-y-gallega/

He has Italian and Croatian heritage in his mother side: https://www.geni.com/people/Dalma-Salvadora-Franco-Cariolichi/6000000025313397313 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andy1985ar (talk • contribs) 09:38, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

All above "information" is based on blogs. I bet one day we'll "learn" that Diego was a proud Croatian who likes his homeland Argentina. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.92.166.176 (talk) 16:39, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Indeed, someone keeps on trying to add information about his supposed Galician or Croatian heritage, even claiming his Italian heritage is unproven, despite the fact that this has been reported in reliable sources, such as the obituary from The Guardian that is referenced in the current version, and that the sources normally used to claim his Galician/Croatian ancestry are nothing more than speculative blogs, dodgy websites about the heritage of the famous, or random conferences and/or interviews. I would say this needs to be watched and protected (the current Spanish and Italian versions include all this spurious information and it is simply embarrassing). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.52.79 (talk) 17:47, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

The Vandalism

What vandalism occured? ZianSaal (talk) 21:38, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Here's one The whole page is a mess. At least two edit wars and sporadic vandalism plus constructive edits. If you have a constructive edit to make, please make an WP:edit request. Sorry for any inconvenience. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 21:42, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

I don’t see how it is a mess. I looked at the difference, but did not find anything that messed it. ZianSaal (talk) 02:35, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

I used to edit this article 10 years ago now I came back to it, it's disgusting its totally biased. You suggest he is a drug addict several times in the article and you dont need to do that more than once or twice "bulging eyes" "weird celebration"? Who cares about that. Also nothing is mentioned as how he was voted the best player of the century before Pele. He is widely regarded as the greatest too just like Pele is, by brazilian media and players like ronaldinho ronaldo R9 too and even the times magazine, that should be in the intro. Its really messed up! "He denies single handedly winning the WC" of course he does! Who would say yes, that would totally discredit his teammates? It's just a description of his performance. It is not mentioned he has the best single worldcup performance of all times either nor that he was the most fouled player in world cup history in 1986 and 1990, I remember putting the sources straight out of FIFA for those things but they took it out now! Totally different from the portuguese and spanish versions.! Even the portuguese version is more forgiving and neutral. It's really sad.The guys dead for christs sake pay some respect.


User:Anonymous (User talk:Anonymous) 11:50, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Ancestry

There is absolutely no source for Maradona's Italian ancestry (that he probably doesn't have) other than internet articles based on nothing than his "Italian sounding surname". This was discussed here before (2016), but the information remains there. In the other hand, Maradona has proven Croatian ancestry, but my edition (with sources) was reverted. This is ridiculous. Dantadd (talk) 22:40, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

This is a ridiculous comment. Maradona's Italian ancestry comes from his mother's side - family name: Franco - not from the 'Italian sounding' 'Maradona' (which is what I think you are getting at). The fact that his mother's family is originally from Southern Italy has been confirmed again and again, and appears in various biographies, such as Jimmy Burns's, as well as in numerous articles from reputable publications, some of which are cited in the entry, in fact (The Guardian, the BBC, etc.). This is incontrovertible. What hasn't in fact been proven is his supposed Croatian ancestry, which in any case is solely based on a single great-grandfather - why would that be relevant? - and all the information you have provided on this matter to this entry and to those in the Spanish and Italian versions come from blogs, hardly serious sources like the Daily Star, or from comments from friends of Maradona's in El Clarín - and none of these publications cite any sources at all. Hardly to be taken seriously, quite frankly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.75.9.30 (talk) 13:41, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
I agree with Dantadd. Please, enough with this Italian fetish. There is no credible Argentine source showing any Italian ancestry. The only person who could possibly have Italian ancestry is his maternal grandfather Anastasio Ramon Franco - yet no source seems to support that he did. Franco is a common enough surname both in Spain and Italy yet his given name implies Spanish heritage. All his other ancestors except the Croatian one are accounted for. I have no idea why there is this emotional need for Maradona to have Italian heritage. Elcuyano10 (talk) 19:12, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Incidentally, English journalists who don't speak the language or just assume Maradona is Italian because the surname "sounds Italian" to them and that he is "Guarani" because he is swarthy and short are hardly a credible source. There are dozens of Argentine publications discussing Maradona's family tree. These evidently take precedence over sloppy anglo journos regardless of who they write for. Elcuyano10 (talk) 19:17, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Full disclosure: Elcuyano10is my other wiki account. Couldn't remember password. Historian734 (talk) 20:04, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
These last few comments are just pathetic. Putting side the silly slight against English people not being able to speak Spanish, which in fact simply shows your ignorance and general pisspoor attitude, considering that both Jimmy Burns and Jonathan Wilson, well-regarded journalists who have written about Maradona for years, do understand Spanish (one of them is in fact bilingual), as well as the preposterous remark that a source takes precedence over others because of where it comes from, these comments simply miss the point. No-one has ever claimed that Maradona has Italian ancestry because of any of his last names 'sound Italian', but because his roots have been traced back to Southern Italy in numerous publications, some of which you have undertaken to delete from this page consistently (see below from one reference), but without justification whatsoever, other than an unacceptable prejudice against 'sloppy anglo journos' (this is nothing but slander, and without any evidence to boot). And the same applies to Maradona's guaraní ancestry - nothing to do with how anyone looks (again, another slander) but a matter of having looked into the issue properly, something that cannot be said about any of the sources you have used on this page and which you have linked to below. I have added some comments on these sources below, and it really is incredible to see anyone peddling such rubbish information - and to pretend that any of these sources should take precedence over the BBC, The Guardian, and all the pieces that Jimmy Burns and Jonathan Wilson have written about these issues is not only laughable, but quite galling too. It really does turn this section on the entry, and yourself, into a laughing stock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.75.9.49 (talk) 20:17, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
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