Talk:Cordwainer Smith

religion

I have restored the previous version of the Science fiction writing section and placed the new content here. Many strange and unsupported claims were made by anonymous user 161.65.16.253, for example that Linebarger based the Instrumentality on the Episcopalian faith, a faith he converted to when he remarried in 1950 (his second wife was Catholic, and was unable to marry a divorced man and remain a Catholic, so they both converted, him from Protestantism of some stripe, her from the Catholic faith.)Ken 15:06, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

^{I now strike thru (as part of my restoration of the original context) the immediately preceding retrospective sig, by an editor who did not contribute the material it applied to. (It was added, 13:52, 26 July 2005, by the 3rd talk editor, obviously to ameliorate confusion created by the 2nd talk editor's insertion of their own comment (which i also have relocated), within the text contributed by the 1st talk editor). --Jerzy•t 06:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)}

I would like to see some references for these assertions before they are re-inserted into the main article.
-- Ken 15:06, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Please note that by "placed the new content here" Ken meant that he removed the IP's version to this talk page -- in contrast to the frequent use of "here" to mean "in the accompanying article". He placed it elsewhere on this talk page, and included article-page section heading, so (intended or not) it became a separate section (a section immediately following this one). I have modified what Ken moved from article to talk, by

placing a box around it to identify it as formalformer article content, not discussion per se,
relocating it within in this talk page, to lie within this contribution of my own, between the end of this sentence and my sig, and
(at the cost of not displaying the heading in its original form, but for the sake of the overall clarity of this talk page) also disabling display of the heading markup

so that it is entirely within both this section and the range of this signed contrib.

== Science fiction writing ==  

Linebarger's stories are strange even by the standards of science fiction, sometimes written in narrative styles closer to traditional Chinese stories than to most English-language fiction. His science fiction is relatively small in volume, due to his time-consuming profession (he worked in the intelligence community, and as a college professor), and his early death. Rather than a full fledged cycle like Dune, Smith's writings consist of only one novel, originally published in two volumes in edited form as The Planet Buyer, a.k.a. The Boy Who Bought Old Earth, (1964) and The Underpeople (1968), later restored to its original form as Norstrilia (1975); and around 30 short stories (gathered in The Rediscovery of Man and other collections), together suggesting a rich universe, but leaving much to be guessed by the reader. The cultural links to China were partially expressed in the Felix C. Forrest pseudonym, as the ideograms for "Linebarger" in Chinese roughly translate as "Forest of Incandescent Bliss".

As an expert in psychological warfare, Linebarger was very interested in the then-newly developing fields of psychology and psychiatry and inserted many of their ideas into his fiction. Also, his fiction often has religious overtones or motifs, in particular in characters who have no control of their actions. This has led to suggestions that Linebarger was personally religious, which are refuted by Linebarger's daughter. Regardless, Linebarger's works are sometimes included in analyses of Christianity in fiction, along with the works of authors such as C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien.

The bulk of his stories are set some 14,000 years in the future, starting on Earth. The Instrumentality of Mankind rules the planet and any planet later inhabited by humanity. The Instrumentality is derived as a concept from the Episcopalian faith, where they are elders who cannot be questioned, while holding themselves accountable. The Instrumentality describes itself as The Oldest Servat of Mankind, and concerns itslef with ruthelessly enforcing happiness. The brutal lessons of past wars (the era of the Manshonyagger, as described obliquely in War No. 81-Q, a mispronunciation of Menschenjaeger, the german form man hunter, today best described as being like James Cameron's Terminator robots in the films of the same name), and the ruin of the old civilisation have forced them to prevent the possiblity of war by nipping it in the bud - no money, free food, perfect health, a set lifespan of 400 years; However, news, gossip and free thought ar expressly forbidden, happiness is assured, and by the era of D'Joan (The Dead Lady of Clown Town), full humans were already genetically programmed, and were prcatically slaves of the same form as the Underpeople that they despised universally. Christianity is forbidden for the same reason : the prevention of war. the Trinity are described in secret as The First Forbidden One, The Second Forbidden One and the Third Forbidden One, and ironically the last faihful are the Underpeople themselves. Revelation of God ha come back to meta-humankind in the most unusual manner - the revelation of a Rat, Robot and revived ancient Coptic Christian.

The Instrumnetality has a rival, the Bright Empire, who despite their name, are practically a mirror image of themselves - Linebarger's comment on the Cold War, explored in A Planet named Shayol, and Golden the Ship Was, Oh, Oh, Oh

Colonisation, in echo of James Blish's pantropy stories, has modified humans against their will to different planetary environments. True humans are only so if born on Old Earth. All others are hominids, even those who are born on Old Earth (the Lord Jestocost, 72nd descendant of the Lady Goroke, is described as a hominid in the Ballad of C'Mell, thanks to his 72nd grandmother having come from III Delta Pavonis, rather than Old Earth)

The Instrumentality attempts to revive old cultures and languages in a process known as the Rediscovery of Man. The Lady Alice More, together with the Lord Jestocost is responsible for this movement. Further, the Lady Alice More was made a Lord of the Instrumentality after witnessing an act of extreme barbarism brought about by the hoplessness of the enforced utopia, and here strong will was not unnaturally harnessed to prevent further incidents of this nature (as told in Under Old Earth, were the concept of the fun-death has entered the society, a comment on hippy culture when without any form of expression, could have become self-destructive)

This rediscovery can be seen either as the initial period when humankind emerges from a mundane utopia and the nonhuman underpeople gain freedom from slavery, or as a continuing process begun by the Instrumentality, encompassing the whole cycle, where mankind is constantly at risk of falling back to its bad, old ways.

Linebarger's stories feature strange and vivid creations, such as:

• Planet Norstrilia, a semi-arid planet where an immortality drug is harvested from gigantic (over one hundred tons) virus-infected sheep (see the worms of Arrakis and melange for similar concepts).
• The punishment world of Shayol (cf. Sheol), where criminals are punished by the regrowth and harvesting of their organs for transplanting.
• Technologies associated with spacetravel that are all highly unpleasant, before the age of planoforming : adiabatic pods to be towed behind solar sail-ships; Scunning, where human beings are disassembled, put into suspended animation by pickling and re-assembled at their destination.
• Planoforming spacecraft crewed by humans telepathically linked with cats which defend against the attacks of unknown malevolent entities in space with the flash of small atomic weapons (these entities are perceived by humans as dragons, and by cats as gigantic rats).
• The Underpeople, animals modified during gestation into human form to fulfill servile roles, and treated as property. Several stories feature clandestine efforts to liberate the underpeople and grant them equal rights to humans. They are seen everywhere throughout regions controlled by the Instrumentality.
• Habermen and their supervisors, Scanners, whose spinal cords have been cut to block the "pain of space", and who perceive only by vision and various life-support implants. Other modes of perception can be temporarily restored to scanners by "cranching".

^{--Jerzy•t 06:27 & 07:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC)}

The above box includes a broken-formatted 'graph, which without its initial blank would read conveniently as

The Instrumentality attempts to revive old cultures and languages in a process known as the Rediscovery of Man. The Lady Alice More, together with the Lord Jestocost is responsible for this movement. Further, the Lady Alice More was made a Lord of the Instrumentality after witnessing an act of extreme barbarism brought about by the hoplessness of the enforced utopia, and here strong will was not unnaturally harnessed to prevent further incidents of this nature (as told in Under Old Earth, were the concept of the fun-death has entered the society, a comment on hippy culture when without any form of expression, could have become self-destructive)

--Jerzy•t 07:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Part of it was a loose and sloppy paraphrase of the introduction to the old Ballantine paperback "The Best of Cordwainer Smith", by J.J. Pierce. -- 08:38, 22 August 2005 AnonMoos

I agree^* that it makes sense, but Ken is right in asking for references, especially as it has been challenged. The Ballantine paperback mentioned in the unattributed comment below^† would be appropriate. - BanyanTree 22:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

* Who BanyanTree "agree[s]" with, based on careful review of the confusing talk edits, would be the contributor (described by Ken as a specific IP) of the removed article passage (exhibited in the box above.)
--Jerzy•t 06:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

† BanyanTree would have had occasion to say "just above", rather than "below", but for the misplacement of a previous comment, which (as a result of my best effort at minimizing the confusion) is no longer below theirs. Banyan means the formerly unattrib comment, now attributed to AnonMoos, which now immediately precedes Banyan's comment (and may long continue -- never say "forever" -- to do so).
--Jerzy•t 06:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

It is valid, I think, to see him as a Christian author. I went to Cordwainersmith.com, the site ran by his daughter, and I don't think she ever disputed that he was Christian or that it influenced his writing. What she disputed, as I recall, was the idea that he was religious when he was younger or even when he wrote Scanners live in Vain. When he did Scanners live in Vain, 1949, he had not married Genevieve so was not even Episcopalian yet. He also did stories from a variety of faith perspectives, including Buddhism, thoughout the 1950s.(The Fife of Boddhidharma being done in 1959) There's also reason to doubt he was loyal to anyone denomination as he seemed to have considered Quakerism, Copticism, and somewhat irreverently asked for Marian intercession in Mexico as it was "her land." Still I think it's fair to say that by the 1960s he was a fairly committed Christian even if he wasn't specific, or humorless, on what kind of Christianity. What I read of the Far Eastern government books I think he was fairly Christian by 1956 as it indicates some fondness for the fact the Taiping in least tried to be Christians. Although that could've been his co-authors doing, in his last years his series gets pretty specifically Christian with On the Storm Planet(written a year before his death) talking about Christianity as the best hope for that future.--T. Anthony 21:59, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

(Re post-removal comments on, and changes to, the removed text)

The following two from 2006 comments were inserted inside the text that is now inside the box in this subsection's parent section, between its first two 'graphs, apparently as comments on the content of that 'graph.^{--Jerzy•t 06:27 & 07:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC)}

You seem to have forgotten about Atomsk in your list of novels. --maru (talk) Contribs 22:14, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

In the same edit, Marudubshinki also became the first of three editors to change the removed content; details in my succeeding contrib to this section, with identical timestamp.
--Jerzy•t 06:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

It's mentioned in the lead, but is not described as science fiction. - BanyanTree 22:19, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Several colleagues made minor changes to the content of what Kenwarren had purported as duplicating the text he had removed from the article. (I have reverted that text to its form when he saved it at 15:06, July 20, 2005 (UTC)). Those changes were:

1. As noted above, at 22:53, 23 October 2011 (UTC), Marudubshinki, respelling "Instrumnetality"
2. In an unsigned contrib at 01:28, 22 November 2005, 161.65.16.253 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) removing a leading blank which had broken the formatting of one 'graph (It rendered the 'graph as a single line much wider than plausible windows; see my note immediately below the box for the reasonably formatted version.) and respelling "Servat" (within the phrase "The Oldest Servat of Mankind") in the next graph.
3. At 15:51, 10 February 2009, タチコマ robot replacing a bare wiki-link for "melange" with the Dab'd & piped link Melange

--Jerzy•t 06:27 & 07:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Cause of Death

The article mentions several times that he died young, but not once mentions the cause of death. What did he die of? ~IMP - 5 December 2006

What is Missing in the Life section

There's no mention of how Linebarger got involved with the science-fiction world, how he became a writer, where he published his fiction, etc. Surely something should be added about this. The part called "Science-fiction" is good, but it describes what you may find in his stories and novel, it doesn't provide an outline of his career as a pro writer.--93.40.110.126 (talk) 18:43, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

He was an amateur. During his writing career, he was very secretive. Few details exist. If someone did start adding a bunch of bio stuff, I would be skeptical of it. Modinyr (talk) 00:04, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Notes

Notes present some problems when used on talk pages, and are generally not used there. Since they seem well established here, please try to maintain the practice of keeping them as the last section.^{--Jerzy•t 21:17, 23 & 05:50, 24 October 2011 (UTC)}

I've diddled the headings into an unconventional configuration, to aid the continuation of the notes-last practice and make it more visible in the ToC.
--Jerzy•t 21:17, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry that is not going to work: a new section still goes at the end when the New section button is used and people will only realise that once they have created the new section. See #Testing new section button.

I suggest adding {{Reflist|local=true}} to sections with references. Mirokado (talk) 21:59, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

I have done that, seems to work fine. The refs would move with the section if archiving were enabled, too. We still have to hope that respondents would leave the ; References bit at the end of the section, but at least they will now see it. --Mirokado (talk) 22:53, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

   Excellent, thanks! I never imagined my kloodge would "work" mechanically, in the sense that new sections would go above the notes section, but only that users would have their attention drawn to the variation from the typical (ref-less) talk page's ToC, and be less likely to just let new sections be added at the bottom. (I've long assumed that our footnote facilities reflected limitations on what could be done via reasonable tweaks to Mediawiki -- e.g., refs for different pages of the same work have to have the full info on the work repeated in coding each footnote. So i haven't gone looking for such a sensible solution via Wiki-markup/-template parameters.)
   Now, about that prohibition on mentioning the full info on a work only at the first place where the given article uses it, then just using an abbr'd title on separate refs to different pages in the same work; what keeps us from avoiding that in a sensible way? (In fact, why don't we have a Refwork namespace, so a ref can link to the page or section for the edition in question, and let the server convert subsequent refs to the same work into ibids and op cits? Oh, never mind me....)
   Thanks again.
--Jerzy•t 05:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

You are welcome! There are various ways to create short references. I like using {{sfn}} to generate the short inline refs and {{cite book}} and friends with the |ref=harv parameter to generate the citations. --Mirokado (talk) 08:22, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Word meanings

Do we really need the definitions of cordwainer and smith, especially in the intro? Did Linebarger ever state there was some significance in his choice of pen name? Clarityfiend (talk) 05:55, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the choice of Cordwainer Smith as a pseudonym, I wanted to draw attention to the historical character of John Smith, British navigator from the 17th century who, more to the point, in 1606 led 3 ships (one of them called Discovery) to the Eastern coast of America and became the leader of the first Virginia colony in Jamestown (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smith_(explorer)). His statue can be seen in London, UK, on Bowchurch Yard, and reads the following: "JOHN SMITH, Cordwainer". I am aware that I do not have hard evidence to sustain this possible link between Linebarger's pseudonym and Captain John Smith — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fxsmeets (talk • contribs) 15:07, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

The name "Smith" is so common in English-speaking societies that it's bound to rub against almost any other English word sooner or later. Without a source, this is WP:OR... AnonMoos (talk) 22:57, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

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mother

There is no mention of his mother. I understand: hr was not forthcoming, but he certainly looks oriental in the photo, and his father and he have very Anglo-Euro names. Anyone know? rags (talk) 18:22, 19 December 2018 (UTC)