Talk:Bruschetta

Image

What is with the picture? I've never seen Bruschetta like that. That picture looks like an open faced ham and cheese sandwhich. A picture like this http://www.ambulance-chaser.net/images/Bruschetta.jpg or this http://www.taunton.com/finecooking/media/c00143_04_md.jpg would be much better.

I thought exactly the same

I also agree

Added a GFDL image of bruschetta. --ImmortalGoddezz 01:12, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this is not a picture of a true bruschetta. I have added some language to the entry that tries to clarify this. Chuck Cairns 15:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed a bit about Roman bruschetta, as it was just repeating what was said in the opening paragraph.

Pnkrockr 17:21, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The picture caption incorrectly labels the dish as containing ham. Correctly it should be prosciutto.

Yes, I feel the bruschetta with prosciutto photograph is not appropriate.Ivankinsman 09:09, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge

I suggest merging fettunta, which is more of a recipe than an actual stub, with bruschetta. Furthermore, the article is orphan, and the bruschetta entry already mentions what the fettunta is. -- AirOdyssey (Talk) 01:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, what about Crostini which has its own page? Are they really distinctly different animals? I actually came her looking for the difference between the two. After reading both, I'm not seeing it. Shouldn't they be merged, too? Zlama (talk) 10:36, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

"Bottled bruschetta"

This looks like IR, and I'm skeptical. At least at, say, Trader Joe's, the bottles are clearly labeled "Bruschetta topping." Fitzaubrey 20:09, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Never mind. My wife tells me I'm wrong, that she's been seeing "bottled bruschetta" in stores. Fitzaubrey 04:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

So i re-added a remark about the topping sometimes being called bruschetta, with a proper reference (Dutch website, but a product with an English label). It's info like this that explicitly deals with common misconceptions that makes WP the great website it is :-) A question that i still have: would it be helpful to draw a parallel to Martini being a vermouth that is called after a cocktail that actually consists of vermouth and gin? PizzaMan (talk) 18:30, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Why destroy a simple original recipe adding always much more than it should have.

What I don't really understand is why vary a perfect simple dish or recipe only to make it worst adding lots and lots of needless ingredients. Same goes for the so called Pizza or pasta in every chain restaurant. Bruschetta is as simple as this, roasted bread, garlic and extra virgin olive oil. That's it. Thank you.

It doesn't need to be extra virgin. Regardless of the grade of oil, you'll still end up with bruschetta. ABehrens (talk) 03:34, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

"Citation Needed"

When a post lists the show, episode, season and station that produced it... that's a hint that it doesn't need citation. The citation is in the sentence.

Bruschette

Is bruschette the same as bruschetta? I bought some bruschette at Sainsbury's, and its very dry, and will keep for months. Jason404 (talk) 00:26, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

It's the plural: 1 bruschetta, 2 bruschette... Man vyi (talk) 07:42, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

pronunciation

I thought that in Italian <ch> was pronounced /k/ ... –67.240.141.201 (talk) 02:35, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

See also: [1]. –67.240.141.201 (talk) 02:40, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

pronunciation

I disagree with the pronunciation on this page, when I was in Italy my Italian friends corrected me when I said "brus-ke-ta" and they pronounced "bru-sche-ta". I found an Italian source: http://www.wordreference.com/definizione/bruschetta

bruschetta [bru-schét-ta] nome femminile fetta di pane abbrustolita, strofinata con aglio e condita con olio d'oliva e sale.

67.103.203.62 (talk) 17:34, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I looked at several online guides to pronunciation, and they all agree that "sche" is pronounced with a hard "k" sound, as indicated in this article and in Italian alphabet#C and G.

As for your source, since it's in Italian, I think their simplistic pronunciation guide assumes that Italian-literate readers know the rule for pronunciation of ch before e.

As for your experience in Italy, I'd guess that it was a regional variation from the norm, but go ahead and read WP:OR anyway (it applies to your experience and my guess too). – jaksmata 14:28, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Let's create a new section for this, headed "Controversy." I'm only half-kidding. I've seen passions rise on both sides when the pronunciation is debated. But seriously, folks-- currently we have a Merriam-Webster reference giving both pronunciations, so maybe that's sufficient basis for calling a truce (and maintaining NPOV)? Johanna-Hypatia (talk) 17:47, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't trust Merriam-Webster on issues like this. They list common pronunciations even when they make absolutely no sense ("brushetta" for bruschetta, "nukyuler" for nuclear, etc.). It's definitely possible that in some regional Italian dialects "sche-" is pronounced "sh" rather than "sk," but I'd like to see a source for that, mentioning the specific region. Patrick Colvin (talk) 04:04, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

It's a question of descriptive vs. prescriptive. Much as you or I may find it irritating to hear Italian pronunciation mangled like that in America, M-W is on solid linguistic ground with their descriptivist practices. As a linguist, sometimes I have to grit my teeth and endure matters like this for the sake of professionalism. But I'm extremely skeptical that <sch> in native Italian words would ever be pronounced [ʃ] in Italian. I would set the bar pretty high for evidence of such. Say a study published in a peer-reviewed professional journal of linguistics. Johanna-Hypatia (talk) 12:21, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Johanna-Hypatia is right. "Ch" in italian is ALWAYS pronounced "k".--Gspinoza (talk) 18:12, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

The OED also is descriptivist, listing both "k" and "sh". It doesn't make me happy, but I have to admit that I've heard a lot of non-Italian-speakers using the "sh" pronunciation. ABehrens (talk) 03:34, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

The link to wordreference.com above is from the Italian-only part of the site, and uses a pronunciation key specific to Italian orthography, which seems to have caused some confusion for English speakers. However, the Italian-to-English entry http://www.wordreference.com/iten/bruschetta has the IPA pronunciation: /bruˈsketta/, which should remove any confusion caused by non-IPA renderings. Here at Wikipedia, IPA is the pronunciation standard.

bruschetta /brusˈketta/
sostantivo femminile
gastr. intrad. (slice of grilled bread, rubbed with garlic and brushed with olive oil).

Couldn't it be that your Italian friends were pulling your leg, and laughing about it when your back was turned? Johanna-Hypatia (talk) 15:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Re: "It's a question of descriptive vs. prescriptive.":

As far as Merriam-Webster goes, it certainly is, but note that we are here using the loaded terms bandied about by those who called themselves "descriptive" (much as those who oppose Roe v. Wade call themselves "pro-life", another loaded term).

Re:"M-W is on solid linguistic ground with their descriptivist practices."

Since Merriam-Webster is a dictionary and people use dictionanaries to find how words are properly spelled and pronounced, Merriam-Webster is not at all on "solid linguistic ground" with their equivocal and misleading "practices". We are concerned here to find the proper pronunciation of bruschetta, not to note every way it's ever been mispronounced, misspelled, or misused by every illiterate who ever happened to come across it in any way. This is why Merriam-Webster should rarely be used as a Wikipedia source. Try the first edition of the American Heritage instead. TheScotch (talk) 08:47, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I feel your pain. I'm also a fan of the AHD, by the way. I keep a copy of the 1st edition around for entertainment value. The 4th edition is the one I actually use as my everyday English dictionary. Unfortunately, bruschetta is not found in any of these editions.

TheScotch, everything has an edge, a boundary, because it isn't infinite. Here we're probing the edge of where descriptivism seems beneficial. The substitution of [ʃ] for [sk] causes revulsion and emotional pain in people who love the Italian language, and tests how far a linguist's commitment to descriptivism can hold out under these conditions. It's a bit of a sore issue for me personally. I was at the local pizza joint, which is staffed by Arab immigrants, and ordered bruschetta. When I said it with [sk], the guy "corrected" me by saying the pronunciation with [ʃ] at me. When I repeated it with [sk], he [ʃ]ed me again, looking me in the eye like I was stupid and unable to speak English, because as a male chauvinist no way could he concede to a woman disagreeing with him in public. Never mind if she's Italian-American and grew up with the language in her family. Dude is male and that settles everything.

The problem as I see it is that prescriptivism is just not a viable paradigm for linguists any longer. It's dead and isn't coming back. Descriptivism also begins to let us down here; while it still provides linguistic raw data, this is where it begins to cause pain. This issue falls between the two paradigms. I think the article as it now stands strikes the best possible approach in a bad situation. It says clearly and unambiguously that the Italian pronunciation has [sk]. That's just a fact. It doesn't lend any approval to what Americans have done to it, but then that's another fact. Place the two facts side by side, and let the people decide. When the people learn the truth about the Italian pronunciation, it shows up the American pronunciation in a poorer light, and people may eventually come to prefer the Italian [sk]! But if the people take this in the direction we don't like, we just have to suck it up; we may as well stand on the shore and command the tide not to come in. I'm so sorry. Anyway, I'm glad you care about it. Johanna-Hypatia (talk) 16:58, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

My family and I go to the Olive Garden almost every Sunday. The only pronounciation I ever hear is broo-SHETT-ah. Even the server and the assistant manager pronounce it that way. Mardiste (talk) 19:19, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Wow, if Olive Garden sets the bar for Italian gastronomical nomenclature, then I will turn to Taco Bell for my next Spanish language issue....qway-sa-dilla or kay-sa-dilla, please help me young person with moderate training in pushing buttons and handling meat-like products. Considering the last time I went to Olive Garden I was met with the question "Y'all ain't want none of our sweet tea?", I'll just assume Chicken con Broccoli is standard Italian code-switching. Sorry, I know these pages are for legitimate discussion, but I couldn't resist... 71.57.186.90 (talk) 05:38, 5 October 2011 (UTC)Tom in Florida

If "[i]n Italian, bruschetta is pronounced [bru'sket:ta]...", then how can /bruːˈskɛtə/ "...more closely resemble...the Italian pronunciation..."? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.53.195.38 (talk) 16:56, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Because /k/. Johanna-Hypatia (talk) 10:32, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

To be clear: there is no place, anywhere in Italy, where this is pronounced "broo-SHETT-ah." It is nothing more than an English mispronunciation -- a very common mispronunciation, but a mispronunciation nonetheless. The claim that in "certain places in Southern Italy" it is pronounced this way is categorically false. Lauretano (talk) 16:00, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

I have very carefully edited the article, removing the preposterous claim that the "broo-SHETT-ah" pronunciation is used in Italy! I have also clarified that the word is an Italian word. The Anglicized pronunciation is not a "transliteration" or "phoneme" but simply a mispronunciation that was repeated by enough Americans that it caught on. (Any mistake that is repeated enough becomes "standardized.") I am not disputing what is in the dictionaries; I am simply clarifying that this ITALIAN word has only one correct pronunciation in ITALY. A very important point which any American reader with any culinary or linguistic interest would want to know.Lauretano (talk) 02:30, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

You are correct. The English language word for this is toast. The Italians claim to have invented toast. Jack N. Stock (talk) 02:48, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

I agree completely with Lauretano. I have taken his language and simplified it. Clearly broo-SHETT-a is not an Italian pronunciation. It probably comes from non-Italians not understanding Italian orthography, and thinking that "sch" is pronounced SH as it is in German. There is no need in the main text of the article to mention that English-language dictionaries record the SH pronunciation; it suffices to say that some English-speaking people pronounce it this way, and footnote that. --Macrakis (talk) 03:10, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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Revision History

What's up with the revision history of this article? Except for the last revision by Yoenit, the others are inaccessible. They have all been 'crossed out' somehow. Bobfreshwater (talk) 06:46, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Many revisions were deleted due to copyright infringement. You can see the page logs for the article here – jaksmata 16:31, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Hot or Cold

Could someone who knows about Bruschetta add a detail which says whether it can be served hot or cold? --Notbyworks (talk) 21:34, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

One can eat it even cold, but the real bruschetta is served hot. You put a slice of bread on the grill, when it's done you take a piece of garlic cut in half and rub it on the bread. Then, you top it with fresh tomato and basil. --Gspinoza (talk) 11:00, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Not according to most definitions - olive oil is a key ingredient.HammerFilmFan (talk) 18:46, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Of course, I didn't mention oil because it's fundamental. --Gspinoza (talk) 13:30, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Ventricina

In Abruzzo "Ventricina" is just the salami, and it is never referred to as a regional variant of "bruschetta". I'll rewrite the phrase in the article. --Gspinoza (talk) 18:14, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

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