Talk:Beyoncé (album)/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Redirects

FYI, I created the following redirects, which can be used to expand articles for songs in the future:

As you can see, the links include the artist's name as part of the disambiguation because in many cases the song titles have been used by other artists as well. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:29, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

  • I also categorized the pages by songwriter and producer, when possible. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:50, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
I made an article for "Blow" but it got redirected. Not sure if because I accidentally gave it an inappropriate name (Blow (Beyonce single), didn't see this thread? Shiningroad (talk) 11:01, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I don't think I understand how redirects work. Sorry. Shiningroad (talk) 11:04, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I developed Shiningroad's article Blow (Beyoncé single) further, I think it should be moved to the redirect (so the redirect needs to be deleted to make room for the move of the article per WP:G6). Mayast (talk) 12:09, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Can the redirect I had created be restored? It already had all the categories, navbox, etc. The second redirect should have just been deleted or merged into the existing one... --Another Believer (Talk) 17:16, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure, you might need to ask an administrator. But I had a look at your redirect before moving the page, and I think I included all the categories and the navbox when I was expanding the Shiningroad's article. This is how it looked before Calvin999 decided to redirect it, and in a few days all we have to do is restore this version. See if anything is missing, ok? — Mayast (talk) 00:44, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
OK, thanks. I suppose I am not a fan of moving a wrongly-named page to wipe out a correctly-named page and its history, only to be re-merged to the parent (album) article. Oh well, I am sure the page will be expanded very soon and the rest is history. If "Flawless" can be expanded at this time, I would think the lead singes could be as well. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:56, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
I'll keep that in mind [that you're not a fan], and I won't do it again, I promise ;)
I think that the "Blow" article could stay, too, as many song articles about upcoming singles by lower-profile artists aren't being redirected. But I'm not going to argue about that, and just try to wait patiently a few days. The reason why I chose to expand "Flawless" was that at this point it passes WP:NSONGS as a subject of non-trivial independent articles (not only in the context of reviews of the album, eg. The Guardian 1, The Guardian 2, and TED. All the album-related publications, and the coverage of "Bow Down/I Been On" were a plus). With other songs, there aren't that many sources yet, but that's just a matter of time. — Mayast (talk) 01:12, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
If you want to draft an article, you can do so in a sandbox or userpage subpage. Adabow (talk) 08:08, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
The original article history has been restored. Much appreciated! Was glad to see "Flawless" expanded, and looking forward to seeing other song articles expanded soon as well. --Another Believer (Talk) 08:17, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

@Adabow: Thanks for the advice, but it's not my first article on Wiki ;) I'm not sure where this advice comes from, though — did I do something wrong here? Cheers, Mayast (talk) 09:21, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

It might be a good idea to use XO (Beyoncé Knowles song) for the article about Bey's single (and I see that someone already tried to), and use XO (song) as a partial redirect to XO#Music, as there is also a song titled "XO" by Fall Out Boy. — Mayast (talk) 11:10, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
I started further development of "Blow", but I would really appreciate some help with it. Mayast (talk) 22:22, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

I have been working on an expansion of "Haunted", which has been redirected to the album article and is now being discussed on the song's talk page. Feel free to participate in the discussion. Really, I just wanted to share that if the article is expanded more in the future, know that there is an article body underneath the redirect command and don't feel the need to start from scratch. Thanks, --Another Believer (Talk) 05:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

About it's sudden release

The album literally was released out of thin air, I think something about this, when there are reports and/or articles about it, should be included. --Matt723star (talk) 16:46, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Once more is available about the album, and we're able to fully expand the article, I'm sure it will be mentioned. But the article is still in its early stages at he moment. livelikemusic my talk page! 17:13, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

"Ghost" and "Yoncé"

Both songs are not *hidden tracks*. They are an inclusion of the album. They're before the so-called "main" track, so they are not hidden. Discuss this here instead of edit-warring it. livelikemusic my talk page! 17:39, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Thats the thing, they ARE hidden tracks - The definition of a hidden track is a song that can be heard on an album but is not listed on the track listing....which is exactly the case here........Artpop - volume 2 (talk) 17:44, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Cut the crap. They are officially credited in the album booklet and tracklisting as well. Download the booklet from iTunes if you want, but enough with the faulty edit warring. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 17:46, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Putting in notes to side of your argument, which is invalid, is still edit-warring. ARTPOP Vol.2, the songs are in the digital booklet. And you're also going against Wiki policy by adding those notes, continuing to show your edit-warring. livelikemusic my talk page! 17:51, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Should the redirects above be moved to the pages Ghost / Haunted and Yoncé / Partition, then? --Another Believer (Talk) 17:55, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
As of right now, I am not quite sure. Not enough information is known about the album yet. Things are still coming out. I *believe* they are their own songs, just put together/mixed with the others. livelikemusic my talk page! 17:56, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Has it been pointed out that "Ghost" and "Yoncé" appear in the digital booklet, but they do not appear on the track titles at the iTunes Music Store? --Another Believer (Talk) 02:10, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

See also?

I added production discographies for Timbaland and Pharrell Williams, but the see also section was removed. I think Noah "40" Shebib production discography is also related. If readers see that tracks are produced by particular people, why should their production discographies not be available in the see also section? --Another Believer (Talk) 18:39, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

If they want to see them, they will simply go on their article and check them. There are totally unnecessary here. — Tomíca(T2ME) 19:52, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for responding here. I should note to others that Tomica reverted my edit, so feedback from other contributors would also be appreciated. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:18, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Category:Song recordings produced by Beyoncé Knowles?

Given her production credits, I think it might be time to create Category:Song recordings produced by Beyoncé Knowles. Any opposition? --Another Believer (Talk) 20:19, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea! —JennKR | ☎ 00:07, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
 Done --Another Believer (Talk) 00:27, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Also, I populated the category with tracks from this album, 4 and Sasha Fierce. Could use assistance checking the other albums, or I will just get to them later… --Another Believer (Talk) 01:57, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Idolator

@Calvin999: Hey, I was asked during a FAC to remove all Idolator sources as it was not considered reputable, I've seen it on album pages used as a news source but never in a "Critical reception" section. Are you sure it's appropriate here? —JennKR | ☎ 23:56, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I've never heard of that. I've used Idolator in FA and FL nominations before. That is purely an editors preference. Idolator is used throughout music articles.  — ₳aron 00:04, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Ah, that's fine then! Cheers. —JennKR | ☎ 00:06, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Reception / Commercial Success

According to Billboard, the unexpected album sold 80,000 copies within the first three hours, and New York Times says the album is No. 1 on iTunes in 90 countries. Facebook and Twittersphere are raving about “Beyoncé,” calling it “the best surprise of the year!”

http://www.crispdaily.com/2013/12/everything-you-need-to-know-about-beyonces-new-album/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.79.194 (talk) 00:38, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

iTunes chart are not allowed to be mentioned. —Indian:BIO · [ ChitChat ] 03:16, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

XO is now the first single

It appears XO is replacing Blow as the first Top 40 single http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/news/rumormill.cgi --Lolcakes25 (talk) 20:54, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Damn, I was just working on the "Blow" article ;) Mayast (talk) 20:57, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Capital FM just tweeted they're about to play "Blow" and "Drunk in Love" so I'm not so sure. They should have included this information in the press release. —JennKR | ☎ 22:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Maybe it is just for the US, but XO always seemed like the obvious single choice to me. Lets see how this pans out --Lolcakes25 (talk) 23:51, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, but I'm seeing "XO" as the single everywhere now! Hmm. We'll have to wait for an announcement. —JennKR | ☎ 00:10, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

In case someone was going to start an article about "XO", here's a Rolling Stone article about its live debut during a concert in Chicago on Dec 13. — Mayast (talk) 01:50, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

The conflicting reports and assumptions are certainly making this tricky to discern. I wonder if we should blank all mention of singles in the article until we have official confirmation or at least multiple sources saying the same thing. Currently, the article states that "Blow" was meant to be the single, but was replaced by "XO" and also that it was released in Italy; statements which lack any sort of verifiability. —JennKR | ☎ 02:23, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Update: I've removed "XO" as the current lead single as Billboard has reasserted that "Blow"/"Drunk in Love" are and are currently receiving airplay. Also, that source for "XO" is from the "rumour mill" of a website. —JennKR | ☎ 03:48, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Has anyone started a sandbox page for "XO"? Tomorrow it will be sent to CHR, rhythmic, AC and urban radio. I haven't seen any radio add info for "Drunk in Love" though. Adabow (talk) 04:46, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
User:Mayast/sandbox/XO — I didn't have much time to work on it, so it mostly repeats information from album's article, but at least it's a start. Please feel free to edit it and develop it further. Mayast (talk) 15:47, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Music videos

I'm presuming sources for the music videos will begin trickling in over the next few weeks as their respective directors discuss them. Anyway, here's the first... —JennKR | ☎ 21:18, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Another one, this time for "No Angel" (Noisey/Vice): We Talked to @LILINTERNET About Directing Beyoncé's "No Angel" Video — Mayast (talk) 21:55, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Release history

Maybe we could change the name of the column "Country" to "Region" (as in MOS:ALBUM#Release history), and include all the digital releases via iTunes Store in various countries in just one row – "Worldwide"? There's no need to make this table so big, in my opinion. (The release dates of the CD/DVD edition will vary, though, so they should definitely stay.) — Mayast (talk) 01:32, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Great idea, I'm not sure why it's been done that way in the first place. I may be wrong but in the press release (PR Newswire source) it says that the album is released onto iTunes worldwide, this could suffice as a source. —JennKR | ☎ 02:26, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Ok, so if there is no objection, I'll make that change. I've found a permanent link to the press release on Columbia's website, which in fact states that the album was released worldwide. Mayast (talk) 03:11, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Itunes Records

Beyonce has broken iTunes' one-week sales record in three days, moving more than 618k digital copies of her self-titled "visual album," the explicit and clean versions of which continue to hold the #1 and #2 spots on the online store, respectively. Beyonce also broke the worldwide iTunes first-week record.

http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/news/rumormill.cgi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.240.183.19 (talk) 16:19, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Discogs notes

Just adding notes to do with the recording of the album, the Discogs page for the album is also very useful for any editors working on the "Music videos" section.

Studios:

  • Pretty Hurts - Kings Landing (Bridgehampton, NY), Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • Ghost - Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • Haunted - Jungle/Oven (NYC) [Additional vocals: K. Wyatt]
  • Drunk in Love (+ Jay-Z) - Jungle/Oven (NYC) [Additional vocals: Boots]
  • Blow - Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • No Angel - Russell's of London, Fetalmus, Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • Yonce/Partition - Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • Jealous - Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • Rocket - Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • Mine (+Drake) - Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • XO - Trackdown (Sydney), Tritonus (Berlin), Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • Flawless (+ Ngozi Adichie) - Kings Landing (Bridgehampton, NY), Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • Superpower (+ Ocean) - Mirrorball (CA), Jungle/Oven (NYC) [Additional vocals: K. Rowland/M. Williams]
  • Heaven - Westlake (CA), Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • Blue (+ Carter) - Jungle/Oven (NYC)
  • Grown Woman - Jungle/Oven (NYC) [Additional vocals: I. Kouyate (of Fela!)]

Take a look at the credits page, too — all the recording/mixing studios and music video credits are also mentioned there. I used them for Flawless (Beyoncé Knowles song), Blow and User:Mayast/sandbox/XO. Mayast (talk) 18:03, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

That is very helpful! Cheers! —JennKR | ☎ 18:35, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

#1 in France

She also debuted #1 in France, here's the link: http://www.chartsinfrance.net/Beyonce/news-89680.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by MartRoggen (talk • contribs) 21:56, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't speak French, but Google Translate says that "Despite these excellent results, "BEYONCE" climbs painfully to the 24th place in the Top Albums, according to our information." (the last paragraph). Let's wait for the official French chart published by SNEP. — Mayast (talk) 22:16, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

With this album she is the first woman to hit No. 1 with her first five studio albums

It's official: Beyonce's new self-titled album debuts at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 chart, making her the first woman to hit No. 1 with her first five studio albums.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/5840086/its-official-beyonce-makes-history-with-fifth-no-1-album — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.240.183.19 (talk) 02:57, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Guinness World Records

Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:51, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Part 2 . Imperfection

There's a new video with Beyonce's commentary on YouTube: "Self-Titled" Part 2 . Imperfection (the first one's here). Could be used when describing the background of the album or idea behind it. Mayast (talk) 21:19, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Jay-Z vs. Jay Z

Is there a reason for the inconsistency? Sometimes I even see "Jay-Z" pipelinked to read as "Jay Z". --Another Believer (Talk) 04:40, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

See Talk:Jay-Z#Requested move. I agree that we should choose one spelling version and stick to it throughout the article. — Mayast (talk) 08:12, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Visuals Art Director + Fashion

http://www.vulture.com/2013/12/creative-director-todd-tourso-on-beyonc.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.240.184.158 (talk) 13:29, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Fashion in Hauted , Partition and Pretty Hurts

http://www.vogue.it/en/shows/oddities/2013/12/beyonce-all-videos-looks#ad-image317574

DJ Booth?

Is it a relaible source? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:03, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

@Jivesh boodhun: Not sure if it is still of concern, but yes DJBooth is a reliable source, their reviews are even used by Metacritic. STATic message me! 22:48, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 03:07, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Featured guests in videos

I was wondering what the proper way to note the featured guests on the videos was since the method I attempted was reverted.

Beyoncé – Disc 2 (DVD)
No.TitleDirector(s)Length
1."Pretty Hurts" (featuring Harvey Keitel and Shaun Ross)Melina Matsoukas7:04
2."Ghost"Pierre Debusschere2:31
3."Haunted"Jonas Åkerlund5:21
4."Drunk in Love" (featuring Jay Z)Hype Williams6:21
5."Blow" (featuring Solange Knowles and Ingrid Burley)Williams5:25
6."No Angel" (featuring Bun B, Kirko Bangz, Willie D, Lil Keke, Scarface, Slim Thug, Trae Tha Truth, Paul Wall, Z-Ro and Johnny Dang)@lilinternet3:53
7."Yoncé" (featuring Jourdan Dunn, Chanel Iman and Joan Smalls)Ricky Saiz2:02
8."Partition" (featuring Jay Z, Crazy Horse Paris & The Crazy Horse Dancers)Jake Nava3:49
9."Jealous"Knowles, Francesco Carrozzini, Todd Tourso3:26
10."Rocket"Knowles, Ed Burke, Bill Kirstein4:30
11."Mine" (featuring Drake)Dubusschere4:59
12."XO" (featuring Jourdan Dunn and Jessica White)Terry Richardson3:35
13."***Flawless (with Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie)"Nava4:12
14."Superpower (duet with Frank Ocean)" (featuring Kelly Rowland, Michelle Williams, Pharrell Williams and Luke James)Åkerlund5:24
15."Heaven" (featuring Ashley Everett)Knowles, Tourso3:55
16."Blue" (featuring Blue Ivy)Knowles, Burke, Kirstein4:35
17."Grown Woman (bonus video)" (featuring Tina Knowles, Solange Knowles, Kelly Rowland and Ebony Rittenhouse)Nava4:24
18."Credits" 2:34
Total length:78:00

I only ask because in the article for the B'Day Anthology Video Album, featured guests are credited in this manner for "Get Me Bodied" so why can't that same style be used in this article? RatiziAngeloucontribs 16:31, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Track listing in the article should match the track list on the back cover of the album. In Beyoncé's case, I would go with the way the titles are displayed on iTunes and Beyonce's website, for example there is "Superpower (feat. Frank Ocean)", and not "Superpower (duet with Frank Ocean) (featuring Kelly Rowland, Michelle Williams, Pharrell Williams and Luke James)". "Featuring" refers to the artist performing on the song together with Beyonce, and not some actors and models appearing in the video.
Plus, the word "duet" would suggest that this artist is Beyonce's equal in the song, which isn't the case here. But, for example, there was a duet with Luther Vandross on Dangerously in Love (I have the actual CD, and that's how the song is listed on the back cover), next to several song with "featuring" artists.
Also note that there are many more artists performing on the songs, usually providing background vocals (like Ryan Tedder on "XO", or Kelly, Michelle, Stefan Skarbek and Boots on "Superpower"), and are listed in the song credits, but for some reason Beyonce decided not to include them on the track list, like she did include Frank Ocean.
When it comes to the anthology album, the [http://www.amazon.com/Beyonc%C3%A9-BDay-Anthology-Video-Album/dp/B000QEIO2Q track list on Amazon] includes "Get Me Bodied feat. Kelly Rowland, Michelle Williams and Solange Knowles." However, I haven't seen the actual album, and I'm not 100% sure that's the best way to include them there.
Usually, people who appear in a music video are mentioned in prose in the "Music video" section of an article about the song. Or if there's no article for the song, I guess they could be mentioned in the "Visuals" section of this article. But the track list you proposed is a little overcrowded, and thus less readable. — Mayast (talk) 17:11, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
Alright. I see your point. Though on the DVD for B'Day (which I have a copy of) does list them as featured artists. You could probably find an image online. It probably best to list them as featured in the visuals section. The credits on her website simply list the names as "featuring" which is why I was confused as to what to do with it. RatiziAngeloucontribs 17:41, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Credits

Personnel/Music and production credits, courtesy of Discogs. I don't know who wants to take a stab at this... 70.53.17.68 (talk) 19:38, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Check out Talk:Beyoncé (album)#Discogs notes ;) Mayast (talk) 19:52, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
I can start a personnel section... Mayast (talk) 19:54, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

A lot of information is being removed or added upon some people's own opinion

What can we do to stop this? Please don't edit this article according to your opinions. And please don't removed sourced information. The mess that has been done on this article today in unbelievable. A lot of information has been removed from the music and lyrics section while a lot has been added to the visual section. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 14:15, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

The Visuals section is incredibly messy. Considering that over time editors are likely to do start/expand on a song on its on Wiki page (where the video can be discussed), I think this section should only give an overview of the process of making/directing the visuals. At the moment its got the same formula: name, director, who was in it, etc. The secrecy of the project has meant we don't have sources about the making of the album (and its visuals) and so obviously editors of that section have rushed to fill the void with an overload of information. I'll take a look at the article in some time and see if there is anything I can do.
Thanks Jenny. I am planning to make an article for all the songs that will chart and then this surplus of information could be moved. I am currently expanding "Drunk in Love". Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:46, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
@Mayast: What are your thoughts on removing the current content of the Visuals section and instead of just describing every video, describing the general process behind it? That way, I believe, we can keep the section from being so unnecessarily expansive and also make it more relevant to the actual album. —JennKR | ☎ 16:18, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
I would be OK with that. This section looked fine yesterday, and when I got up today, I tried to clean the mess a little (with referencing etc. – eg. that Hollywood Life source), but finally gave up. The quotes from directors are interesting, but I don't feel that they necessarily need to be included in this article. — Mayast (talk) 16:47, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Has Pretty Hurts received enough coverage for its own article? I would argue that a song does not need to chart to be notable. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:53, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
I'd say so, a lot of the songs from 4 that didn't chart (or at least not highly) ended up with their own article anyway. —JennKR | ☎ 18:59, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
See Pretty Hurts (song). I assume some music video details were removed from this article, but may now be transferred over? Transferred. --Another Believer (Talk) 19:59, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Cheers! If you (or anyone else for that matter) needs a hand, just drop a message! I think I'll start the Yonce/Partition article too. —JennKR | ☎ 20:21, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
@JennKR: When you have some time, perhaps you could have a look at the composition section of Pretty Hurts? Right now its first paragraph is just copied and pasted from this article, and I'd say you are an expert on the subject, as you wrote most of the music and lyrics section here ;) I'll try to work on it, too (and the critical reception section), when I have some more free time. — Mayast (talk) 20:45, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
@JennKR: If you believe the article for Partition should actually be called Yonce/Partition, can you move Partition (song) to preserve the page history? Thanks so much!--Another Believer (Talk) 23:50, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

@JennKR: "Partition" charted in the US, so I turned the redirect into a stub... A lot of work ahead of us. I wanted to ask if, by any chance, you have started an article about it? Mayast (talk) 13:52, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

@Mayast: I did a basic talk page draft (a lot less than what you've done) so it won't be helpful. I will assist you with it though, I'll try and compile some sources. —JennKR | ☎ 16:30, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be better to keep the article for "Partition" just about that song, and not "Yoncé"? Apart from charts, I don't see any benefit in combining the two. Adabow (talk) 04:32, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
Well, they are one track on the album, and I've noticed that many music journalists consider them to be just one song, for example writing that Beyoncé raps "I sneezed on the beat and the beat got sicker" in "Partition",[2] when that line is actually part of "Yoncé". The same thing happens with "Ghost"/"Haunted". Plus "Yoncé" and "Ghost" will never be notable enough to have their own articles, then why not cover them in the articles for "Partition" and "Haunted"? I don't see any reasons for separating them. — Mayast (talk) 10:36, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Can I have an opinion? [On an image]

Hello, hopefully if this Videos section ever gets up to scratch I want to include a screenshot from one of the music videos. Right now, there are two particular scenes which are talking points from critics/fans and interesting for their meaning. The first is the "I woke up like dis"/hand movement/choreography (from "Flawless") which has generated huge acclaim for being innovative and "GIF-able" [not my words] and the second the scene from "Drunk in Love" where Knowles has the trophy (which links back to "Pretty Hurts" and, I think, other videos) which serves as a motif for the "chaos of life". I'm torn between both and was wondering what some other editors thought about it? Also, feel free to suggest something else if it's created a talking point (preferably between 2 or more sources). Thanks! —JennKR | ☎ 01:58, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Soul as genre? And Billboard critics

I was wondering if soul shouldn't be listed as a genre on this album, because "Rocket" is retro-soul, and Superpower is Soul/R&B. And shouldn't Billboard be on the list at the "critical reception" part, they seem as one of the biggest music-related websites, and reviewers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MartRoggen (talk • contribs) 19:55, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Genre field

Hello, I never understand why this really minor area of the infobox always attracts so much contention, but there has been quite a number of edits and reverting on this page concerning it. I've now blanked the field in order to gain a consensus here. Sign your name under a genre if you support its inclusion on the page (I wouldn't worry about it being unsourced for now, as there is plenty of material on what the album is thanks to the reviews). Note that we're not merely counting votes and this won't replace discussion and any good/relevant points than an editor has about what should be included. Feel free to add on a genre you believe should be included. Thanks. —JennKR | ☎ 18:15, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

  • Alternative R&B ("PBR&B")

Comments: Electro-R&B should definitly be a added and included, several sources has mentioned it, for example these:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/reviews/beyonc-review-beyonces-new-album-is-an-unashamed-celebration-of-very-physical-virtues-9003449.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/14/arts/music/beyonces-new-album-is-steamy-and-sleek.html?_r=1&

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/beyonce-20131214

Pop music should also be included, since its mentioned alot too:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/cdreviews/10515912/Beyonce-album-review-the-most-X-rated-pop-album-since-Madonnas-Erotica.html

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/arts/music/albumreviews/article3948224.ece

http://www.spin.com/reviews/beyonce-self-titled-spin-essential/

These genres which has been mentioned alot/several times in reviews should be added, while other genres which has for example only been mentioned once should not be included since its not relevant enough. Many of those genre as neo soul or hip hop has never had even a source, they should not be added. Alternative R&B has NEVER been mentioned in any review, "future R&B" is not alternative R&B, so i dont get why people think that. Contemporary R&B can be added along with Electro-R&B and pop since it has been mentioned in several reviews too.

--91.154.102.59 (talk) 20:25, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

  • These three seem pretty encompassing of the album's sound. Tezero (talk) 01:58, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
  • I have not listened to the album, so I have no personal opinion. on it. But clearly, electro-R&B and Pop are the most prominently used generes to describe the album in reliable sources. Hip hop definitely is not by the way, I do not even understand how that ever sneaked into the infobox. STATic message me! 03:45, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
I agree that pop and electro R&B should be included, they seem to dominate the album.
But I'm also thinking about hip-hop (present in tracks like "Ghost", "Yoncé", and of course "Drunk in Love") and neo soul/soul ("Rocket", "Superpower"), and I'm not sure whether they should be included – so I would be happy to read some opinions from other Contributors on that subject.
BTW, today I got to watch all the videos on DVD for the first time, and the beat from "Yoncé" as the background music for the menu – WOW, loved it. Mayast (talk) 23:20, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Obviously certain tracks have influences or elements from other genres (like hip hop on "Yoncé" as mentioned), but we are really talking about the genres that describe the album's overall sound, not just a couple of the songs. I do not have much stake in the result of the discussion, but my opinion is why list four/five genres like some tried to before, when we can just list the one or two most significant ones. The infobox is meant to summarize after all. STATic message me! 01:43, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
It seems we've selected Electro R&B/pop, I agree that some of the other genres feature but don't necessarily pervade through the album. I'll reinstate the genre field with this. —JennKR | ☎ 16:44, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Impact on music industry

If and when the right time ever comes, I think it would be great to write a section about the album's impact on music industry and the way records are released and promoted. Here's an interesting article for starters: How Beyonce's Netflix-Style Album Could Save The Music Industry (MTV) — Mayast (talk) 23:04, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Billboard: BEYONCE pirated 240K times

http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/legal-and-management/5847925/beyonce-album-pirated-240000-times-report — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.20.167.114 (talk) 05:06, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

"BEYONCÉ" Album - Release and Reaction Impact by FORBES

BEYONCÉ IS THE WINNER in "Music Industry Winners 2013" by FORBES:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2013/12/30/music-industry-winners-2013-beyonce-streaming-rap-djs/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.154.61.52 (talk) 00:31, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Charts: More number 1 charts in US

  1. 1 Tastemaker Albums - http://www.billboard.com/charts/tastemaker-albums
  1. 1 R&B Albums - http://www.billboard.com/charts/r-and-b-albums
  1. 1 Digital Albums - http://www.billboard.com/charts/digital-albums — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.241.125.148 (talk) 15:08, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Per WP:BILLBOARDCHARTS, R&B Albums isn't allowed, as the album has charted on R&B/Hip-Hop Albums. As for Digital Albums, I would say it is a subset of Billboard 200 so there's no point in adding it, either. But I'm not sure what to do with Tastemaker Albums, I think it could be added. Mayast (talk) 16:23, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Commercial Performance

"Beyoncé" Outsells Prior Album "4" In Four Weeks:

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/5862618/beyonce-outsells-prior-album-4-in-four-weeks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.240.97.126 (talk) 20:48, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Beyoncé is the fastest album to sell 1M digital copies in the US, breaks previous record held by Adele's 21

Pazz and Jop 2013!!!

Pazz and Jop mass critics poll. Sources will come soon. But Beyonce is #4!!!!!

2013 Albums / Points

  • 1 Kanye West · Yeezus 1991
  • 2 Vampire Weekend · Modern Vampires of the City 1342
  • 3 Daft Punk · Random Access Memories 833
  • 4 Beyoncé · Beyoncé 736
  • 5 Chance the Rapper · Acid Rap 672
  • 6 My Bloody Valentine · m b v 624
  • 7 Haim · Days Are Gone 598 62
  • 8 Janelle Monáe · The Electric Lady 510
  • 9 Kurt Vile · Wakin on a Pretty Daze 502
  • 10 Kacey Musgraves · Same Trailer Different Park 489 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.169.91 (talk) 05:18, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

http://furia.com/pjs/index.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.169.91 (talk) 05:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Archive

Wouldn't it be better to use a bot for archiving threads that haven't received any comments in a month (or other amount of time)? I think that some useful threads were archived too soon, like Redirects, or threads that were started/commented on just a few days ago. — Mayast (talk) 18:27, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

That's my fault, I stopped by the talk page and it was looking fairly large, so I archived it but unfortunately forgot to check which posts were still active. My apologies for my lack of communication. WikiRedactor (talk) 14:56, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Writers

Writers are legally listed from most input to least. Therefor, the credits need to reflect what the album booklet says, not putting Knowles first on everything solely because you prefer it that way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.115.2.115 (talk) 19:57, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I haven't found any guidelines for the order of writing credits in MOS:ALBUM, but I guess that they could be listed according to the booklet (and in the case of this album I think that would be the best solution) or alphabetically. Anyway, I agree that right now the order makes no sense. — Mayast (talk) 21:57, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
I fixed and arranged the writers/producers credits per the official digital booklet I have on my computer. — Tomíca(T2ME) 22:51, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Boots' work on Beyoncé

I've only skim-read this, but it looks like there could be some useful info on the conception of some of the songs: [4] Adabow (talk) 06:35, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Beyoncé (album)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Beyoncé (album)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "fusetv":

  • From XO (song): Lynch, Joe (December 13, 2013). "Beyonce's Surprise Album: A Track-by-Track Breakdown". Fuse. The Madison Square Garden Company. Retrieved December 18, 2013.
  • From Partition (song): Lynch, Joe (December 13, 2013). "Beyonce's Surprise Album: A Track-by-Track Breakdown". Fuse. The Madison Square Garden Company. Retrieved December 18, 2013.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 18:24, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Added the missing reference. Mayast (talk) 21:42, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Comments: Alter ego

I wonder if Beyoncé adapted a new alter ego during the album's promotion. According to MTV News, she took a new alter ego named "Yoncé" — Simon (talk) 06:23, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Not according to Beyoncé; see 6:11. Adabow (talk) 08:25, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
Okay, thanks for telling me know! — Simon (talk) 09:06, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

New single?

VH1 reported that "Partition" would be the next single. — Simon (talk) 05:45, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Its source for that is Perez Hilton - not reliable. Adabow (talk) 08:08, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
I just reverted an edit adding it as the third single, as the only "reliable" source I could find was Idolator. This info is already a few days old, and I would expect Billboard (and A FEW other sites) to be all over the topic if it was true. — Mayast (talk) 19:04, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
VEVO is releasing the video in two days! Obviously, it's gonna be the third single from the album. — Tomíca(T2ME) 19:07, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I definitely find VEVO more convincing ;) But as the release of a video ≠ a single, I still think we should wait for a more reliable source. — Mayast (talk) 19:17, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I know, I am just expressing my excitement for it being released as a single. It's my personal favorite from the album.:) — Tomíca(T2ME) 19:19, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Haunted video information

— Simon (talk) 06:06, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

"Heaven" lyrics meaning

This article says that "Heaven" "lyrically speaks about her mother losing her best friend". However according to sources including this or this, the song is about Beyonce's miscarriage of her first child (even before Blue Ivy). I just wonder which is right so I placed my comment in the talk page here... — Simon (talk) 09:51, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I removed that sentence as it wasn't backed up by the citation given. I would be hesitant to add that it is about her miscarriage unless it comes from Beyonce herself; how would these reviewers know? Seems like continued speculation to me. Adabow (talk) 10:31, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments

I just have a few words so far: I am not a fan of the intro of the article.

  • Examples: "its songs built on loose concepts from Beyoncé" --What exactly are you trying to say here? I'm not clear. At all. The initial ideas for the songs (songwriting or melodies) were loose? Because, at some point in time, that's true of almost everything that's ever been created--by Beyonce or anyone else. Or did you mean the songs were loose on a structural level? Also, syntactically, the entire sentence is awkward.
  • "Beyoncé's themes—much darker than previously explored in her music—were identified as postfeminist and include sex, marriage and motherhood." As written, it's unclear how or why "postfeminism" was considered "dark". Is it the fact that it includes sex or marriage? And secondly, and I hate to sound like a broken record, but syntactically, the sentence is awkward.
  • "The work of unknown producer Boots produced an electro and contemporary rhythm and blues sound that combined elements of minimalist production, loose song structure and emotive vocals."
    • As written, the topic of the sentence is "the work [of Boots]". So in essence, the sentence reads: "The work of Boots produced an R&B sound..." His work produced a sound? That is nonsensical.
  • Too many semi-colons in such a short space.
  • "Developed over two years in strict secrecy, early recording began in New York where Beyoncé assembled several musicians; in 2013 new material was recorded during sessions while touring and at Jungle City and Oven Studios."
    • I think the second paragraph should give a bit more detail as to why new material would be recorded i.e. there's a glaring gap in the chronology. You're going to have to dig deep to find a narrative that's succinct yet comprehensive enough to do justice to the extraordinary circumstances surrounding this album's production.
    • And the semi-colon does not fit with the sentence. If you had to justify it, what exactly would be the reason for it?
  • For the intro to be complete (comprehensive), you should include some information about its release method, and the impact it had (on future release methods, on marketing in general, on its audiences). It was, after all, a major part of it's success. Orane (talk) 00:00, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
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