Talk:Allah/Archive 5

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ALLAH is NOT Al-Ilah

there's a wide spread false claim about the name "ALLAH" being derived from "Al-Ilah"

this is grammatically wrong

if it's truly derived from Al-Ilah, then the expression ya Allah ('O Allah!') would have been ungrammatical, because according to the Arabic language when you address someone by the vocative form ya followed by a title, the al ('the') must be dropped from the title. For example, you cannot say ya ar-rabb but must say ya rabb (for 'O Lord'). So if the word Allah was al-ilah ('the God'), we would not be able to say: ya Allah, which we do.

Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon (which is based on classical Arabic dictionaries), says under the word Allah, while citing many linguistical authorities:

"Allah ... is a proper name applied to the Being Who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all the attributes of perfection, a proper name denoting the true god ... the al being inseparable from it, not derived..." Allah is thus a proper name, not derived from anything, and the Al is inseparable from it. The word al-ilah (the god) is a different word. The word Allah is unique among the names of God in all the languages of mankind, in that it was never applied to any being other than God. The pre-Islamic Arabs used it to refer to the Supreme Being, and never applied it to any of the other things they worshipped. Other names of God used by mankind, such as "lord", "god", "khuda", etc. have all also been used for beings other than God. They have meanings which refer to some particular attribute of God, but "Allah" is the name which refers to the Being Himself as His personal name.


http://allahumma.blogspot.com/

http://www.muslim.org/islam/allah.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omar amross (talk • contribs) 16:51, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Remember, this is not a forum site. Stop spamming. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.135.22.175 (talk) 22:42, 13 April 2013 (UTC)


and this is not a site of spreading propaganda, quit spreading it. Omar amross (talk) 17:10, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 August 2013

The first line of this article has an unbalanced parenthesis around the phonetic pronunciation templates. On rendering, a right-paren is placed on the "listen" graphic for IPA, which may have caused the confusion.

Balancing the parentheses will make automated analysis of this text simpler. That is, change this text: lah.ogg}} is t

to this: lah.ogg}}) is t Michaelrhanson (talk) 22:35, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

thanks, well spotted, IdreamofJeanie (talk) 11:36, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 October 2013

Please delete

Christians in Indonesia and Malaysia also use Allah to refer to God in the Malaysian language and Indonesian language (both languages forms of the Malay language which is referred to as Bahasa Melayu).

to

Christians in Indonesia and some part of Malaysia previously colonized by Dutch also use Allah to refer to God in the Malaysian language and Indonesian language (both languages forms of the Malay language which is referred to as Bahasa Melayu).

The dutch dictionary in 1650 cannot be used as a proof that all malay referring God as Allah as it was written by the Dutch and not the local people.

The correct translation of God used by Malay can be found in Malay translated testimony (shahada) from arabic "Laa ilaha illa Allah"

Malaysian does not use the word Allah to refer to God. Instead the word "Tuhan is used to refer to God"

This can be found in Malay translated testimony (shahada) from arabic "Laa ilaha illa Allah"

"I bear witness there is no God but Allah" which is translated to malay as "Aku bersaksi bahawa tiada Tuhan malainkan Allah"

Wiki0019 (talk) 10:26, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Question: Doesn't your example show that Tuhan may refer any god, but Allah himself is still referred to as Allah? Please clarify and provide reliable sources. --Stfg (talk) 11:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Answer: "Tuhan" refer to any god, or the person or deity peoples believe as god. But "Allah" refer to "the god", the proper name to call god because it cannot be played around with and suitable to refer to the one and only god. In many scriptures, god always mention him as the "Only God" and "Not comparable" to his creation, including the scriptures for Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism and Islam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.186.64.10 (talk) 00:51, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Usage

...

The name Allah or Alla was found in the Epic of Atrahasis engraved on several tablets dating back to around 1700 BC in Babylon, which showed that he was being worshipped as a high deity among other gods who were considered to be his brothers but taking orders from him.[28]

The information claimed above does not appear in the referenced text. Suspected Vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.235.129.131 (talk) 12:24, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 March 2014

82.114.178.227 (talk) 11:42, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Not done: Please request a change if you are going to use this template. Cannolis (talk) 12:08, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

is Allah the same as Bible God

Similar question can be stated if Old Testament God El is the same as Yahwe etc... or maybe some tribes without prior contact with christianity or islam had a concept of only one divine being with of course completely different name - same question. I'm not here to judge on that but I've found some articles on wiki that may touch the subject: De dicto and de re, De se
pwjb (talk) 10:05, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

minor typo in need of correction

In the Unicode section: "which is dicouraged for new text", the letter "s" is missing.

well spotted, now corrected, thanks IdreamofJeanie (talk) 20:06, 28 May 2014 (UTC)


Allah Is the Personal Divine Name of the Lord

Two Points

1. The Personal Name of God Is Allah الله{`Verily , I am ALLAH الله ; there is no "ilah god اله but I, so worship ME alone and observe Prayer for my remembrance}[20:14],{`O Moses, verily, I am ALLAH الله,the Mighty, the Wise} [27:9].Here in these two Quranic verses,we see how the DIVINE defined himself to Moses PBUH by his DIVINE NAME Allah الله. See also Quran,Verse[28:30].

Meaning Allah الله is not the generic word for god, but it is the DIVINE name of the Lord. The generic word for God in Arabic ,(as you can see from the examples mentioned above), is " ilah اله".

2. Allah is NOT Yhwh (and definitely NOT being mentioned in Quran by the name EL). It says Jacob Struggle with god of the bible "שָׂריתָ עִם אֱלהים Gen 32:28, and Jacob Would NOT release THIS DEFEATED god till this DEFEATED god surrender by blessing Jacob Gen 32:27 Jacob called the name of the place "Peniel פְּנִיאֵל : FOR I HAVE SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE, כִּי-רָאִיתִי אֱלֹהִים פָּנִים אֶל-פָּנִים, וַתִּנָּצֵל נַפְשִׁי,meaning that Jacob indeed wrestled and shafted that biblical god.Plus the bible describe yhwh as a MAN ( Ish אִישׁ ) Not God {Yhwh is A MAN ( אִישׁ ) of WAR מִלְחָמָה} Exodus 15:3.

Yhwh is a MAN ( Ish אִישׁ )Exodus 15:3, Allah on the other hand is God Not a Man. Therefore Allah is NOT yhwh.

Allah is known as the bringer of death and death was not known in heaven until Lucifer's rebellion. Also in Psalms 82 it acknowledges that there are MANY Gods. "God presides in his great assembly; he renders judgement among the "gods":..." The Muslims will claim that these are false scriptures however they constantly refer to these false scriptures throughout the Quran. Islam is a barbarous religion that has no regard for women and Allah is worshipped by swine who love death almost as he who wishes he was most high.

Can you stop trolling?

  • I understand Arabic very well (my mother language) and God in Arabic is not the word Allah. It is clear to any Arabic teacher with any religion/non-religion that the word "Elah" is the word "God". Please amend to reality of Arabic language. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 14:48, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Allah has 99 Greates names in Islam

Please add in the Islam paragraphs that Allah has 99 greates names. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 17:53, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Already there: "In Islamic tradition, there are 99 Names of God (al-asmā’ al-ḥusná lit. meaning: 'the best names' or 'the most beautiful names')..." --NeilN talk to me 18:00, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
Your right, sorry. Why is the names stated as tradition. I don't see source saying that from many books I read in the subject. The 99 names are from the Quran, God (Allah, the author of the Quran) used them. So Muslims use them in their prayers and read them from the Holy Quran. For example, some names I use when I ask for help, some use when I ask for cure, some when I want forgiveness. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 04:06, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

There is no God but Allah

This sentence is part of the first pillar in Islam. So the word God in Arabic is "Elah", but I know that the Creator was named as Allah by Arabic people who believe in Gods. So Muhammad is saying to his tribes in Mecca that there is no God only the Creator which his name is Allah. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 04:12, 10 June 2014 (UTC)


  • The word God "Elah" is related to worshiping so when we say in Arabic Elah, we mean the one to be worshiped. It should be clear, and I think in English the word God is related to worship. The word Lord is different than God, the word Creator is different as well. So different religions may distinguish in using those words or the meanings. Arabs in Mecca at the time before Islam, they believed in Ebraham, and believed that the Creator was Allah, but they did not worship same God of Ebraham, Mouses, Jesus, and Sulaiman. They made Gods from stones to worship, and they changed the religion of Ebraham that worshiping these made Gods makes people closer to Allah (The Creator). Abdusalambaryun (talk) 04:17, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
  • In any language:- A Word is with meaning but it is not always a noun. A noun is a word but it is not always a name. A name is a noun and it is always identifying a person or a property or a thing, or etc. In English do you call your cat or dog with word "Cat" or Dog", no I don't think so. The word GOD is not a name but each human calls his/her god some name(s). In people's life and in their Worlds they have seen/named Humans, Animals, and Gods/Worshiped-things. Each of those when they are intelligent or important or important-to-someone, they have names in the World. Therefore, how can you call your god as "God", it is not reasonable. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 17:44, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
You've made the same pointon multiple talk pages now with multiple editors trying to explain it to you. As has been explained to you elsewhere you do not understand the difference between a noun and a proper noun. We're at the point where the problem is your knowledge of the English language. I think you will not find editors willing to discuss this any longer with you. We've run out of patience. DeCausa (talk) 19:20, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
I am free to discuss here with reason and understandning of the word Allah, I know that the editors don't understand it. However, I will follow to reread about the word God in English History to see what is wrong with this language and what changed it. Please note that languages changes with history and practice. In practice in Wiki we are all equal editors and need to discuss to get to real information. Each article is separate so it is not wrong to discuss the same point in different articles. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 12:31, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Actually, talk pages are only for article improvement, refusal to get the point is disruptive, and "discussion to get real information" is considered original research, which we do not accept. The current information regarding the words "God" and "Allah" have reliable sources cited for them. You either need to demonstrate that those are only a small minority of sources (unlikely), or that the sources are unreliable (also unlikely), and then bring in reliable sources supporting your view. Ian.thomson (talk) 12:38, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Etymology section needs amendments

As my above discussion, I will work on amending the section because it is not correct. Allah is a NAME, why the section cannot make differences between the word "God" and the word "Allah". However, my opinion is: the section is misleading the reader, and I need to investigate the sources used. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 09:49, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

  • The reference [12] is not reliable and not correct reference. I read the on line version (section related to Allah definition), if there is a hard copy some one read please adjust the reference, because the referencing is very very poor (no dates, no publisher, no pages,...etc). Abdusalambaryun (talk) 09:54, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
  • The reference [13] is very very poor. How can I even investigate real information. Please editors help, how do you edit and use false information from authors that don't know the reality of the word Allah. I am ready to discuss with the world but with knowledge and not with false information. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 09:58, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
  • The reference [14] is not reliable, an on line project is not a reference. However, if you want to reference please make clear references and real referencing as educated people reference, but making just links to webpages is not real information/sources, now days any one on Earth can open webpages and write books. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 10:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
  • The reference [16] is same reference of [12], but both poor referencing, and that reference is not giving true information. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 10:04, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
  • The Etymology is study/knowledge of words, and the section should be using high ranking references from school of knowledge and universities. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 10:09, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
  • The Etymology very much is about languages, but still I see no much describing the languages of this word "Allah", only mentioned one language, which means the text in the section is very very poor.Abdusalambaryun (talk) 10:11, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
There are no grounds for saying the sources are not reliable. Just because you disagree with them doesn't make them incorrect. DeCausa (talk) 18:37, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
no it is not because I disagree, it is because the reference is not reliable and the editor who added it was not providing true information. We need true information not opinions or agrees and disagrees. I don't give my opinion but giving the truth, there is big difference between opinion issues and fact issues. In this section of Etymology we need to add/amend it to simple real and complete information. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 16:17, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
no, you are only saying they are not "reliable" because you disagree with them. The main citation is to a well known Encyclopedia of Islam. I'm sorry your pedsonal opinion hss no standing. DeCausa (talk) 19:00, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
No, you did not read my comments above on those references. Usually in education a reference is needed for readers to find reliability of such information. I cannot find the references, they have poor referencing standard. Do you agree that we need at least to follow the world's educated standards to help our readers find true and real information. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 05:06, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Be aware that there is no requirement for sources to be available online. In fact, many scholarly works are not available online, and many that are available online can be accessed only by paying a fee. Wikipedia requires that sources be verifiable. This means that you may need to go to a library, or pay a subscription fee, to look up a source. If you do that, the source is still verifiable. This is not a problem for an encyclopedia article.
However, I agree with you that in this case, the source is not well referenced. In articles with a similar referencing style, there is usually a bibliography subsection that fully describes each source. The fact that we have a rather vague reference with no section suggests that this material was moved from another article some time back. The full reference description might be found in other articles such as Islam or Muhammad. ~Amatulić (talk) 18:25, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Allah the author of the Quran

Allah is the author of the Quran, as the Quran mentions. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 01:44, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Allah is a NAME but God is not

The article should be clear that Allah is a name not only a word. I amended that and will check more sections in future to amend. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 09:28, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm not going to debate whether Allah is a name or title, but the word "Allah" refers to a being that is more commonly recognized in the English speaking word by the title "God," and this is the English-language Wikipedia. The change you're implying is one that does not need to be made.
You say that you amended that, but your actual edit had nothing to do with that, and contradicted your promise 'forget your religion when you edit.' Ian.thomson (talk) 17:42, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
I am Muslim, but when editing I forget my religion and try to write truth about any religion or information, I can use my experience and knowledge of many books I read in different languages. We need to work together without thinking of our believes but we should focus on the truth. The way the article is edited seems to me like not considering the truth principle, the article before my amend ignores important issues which seems strange. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 22:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
See WP:NOTTRUTH for some enlightenment. While personal knowledge can be helpful, Wikipedia articles should never make statements based on anyone's personal knowledge. Also, far from forgetting your religion, the truths you have been promoting here and in other articles appear to be subjective to Islam. ~Amatulić (talk) 16:04, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
I don't agree with you. You need to discuss and point to what is religious-subjective in my reasonable discussions. My subject is always the real article subjects but the editors I see them changing the subjects to other non related issues like mentioning Muslim (the editors added Muslim opinion in it as part of subject). My personal knowledge with all others will help make the article real when we avoid wrong information. Allah is a name in Arabic language, and also in other languages, so do you have a reference saying it is NOT a NAME, please advise. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 16:27, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
Religious-subjective statements have been pointed out to you on other pages, such as Talk:Muhammad. It is good when you identify this problem with other people's edits — just don't be blind to your own subjectivity.
Also, you are not supporting your position by resorting to straw-man fallacies. Nobody has ever argued that Allah is not a name. Of course it is a name. However, by constantly arguing that Islam-related articles on the English Wikipedia should refer to 'Allah', you are not forgetting your religion when you edit, and you are pushing your own subjective point of view.
While 'Allah' is indeed a name, you have evidently not understood, even after many days of discussion, that Allah is not the name we use for 'God' the English Wikipedia. The article on proper noun might help, after you have read WP:NOTTRUTH. ~Amatulić (talk) 16:44, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
You should use words the way the English language defines its use. So the word God is not equal to the word Allah in Arabic language. Even the word Elah (meaning god) is not exactly defined in arabic the way word God is defined in English. We follow knowledge not following our opinions. I opened a new section to discuss really what God means in English and how we can amend the article to clear confusion or clarify the misleadings. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 02:32, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Allah name used by Muslims as Worshiped only God

The article misunderstand the way Muslims refer to Allah. I amend it to "Muslims refer to it as the only worshiped God", please don't change until discuss, otherwise we will need to delete sentence, so please discuss with community. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 22:41, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I've reverted you mainly because it is awkward and poor English. Also, if you are trying to allude to monotheism, that is unnecessary because it already refers to God (with a capital G). Don't say things like "don't change until discuss". That's not how Wikipedia works. If a change is disputed it should revert to the pre-change position until you have consensus support for your change. Please read WP:BRD which explains how this works. DeCausa (talk) 07:36, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
ok I will read it as a guide not a rule, also I don't think there was consensus on the article. Consensus comes after discussions, so I was asking for discussions with reasons, so we can progress together. Editors sentence that I usually change when there is no reference but false opinions so I add real information under discussions. Please note that there are discusses in past that were ignored in Wiki's articles but I will make sure that does not happen in future. Thanks for your advise. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 16:38, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
You're still new at Wikipedia. As far as the rules go, we have three categories: policies (non-negotiable rules), guidelines (best practices from which we don't deviate without consensus), and we also have essays that are community-accepted explanations, summaries, or interpretations of the policies and guidelines. Some essays, however, have become so widely quoted and adopted that they are considered in the same class as policies or guidelines. WP:BRD is one such essay considered as a guideline. WP:Golden rule is another essay considered as almost a policy, if you ever become interested in creating an article.
Regarding this particular edit, there is nothing false about the sentence "'Allah' is used mainly by Muslims to refer to God in Islam." That is a perfectly true English sentence. There was no 'false opinion' there, as you claim. Modifying the proper name 'God' to say 'the only worshipped God' is not only redundant (because the word 'God' in English refers to the singular Abrahamic God worshipped by all Abrahamic religions), but also grammatically incorrect and nonsensical by retaining the proper noun 'God' as you did. DeCausa was correct to revert your edit.
Grammatically, it would be correct to say 'Allah is the only worshipped god' (lowercase 'god') in English, because then you are saying that Allah is the only deity worshipped among several other possible deities that could be worshipped. But saying 'Allah is the only worshipped God' (uppercase 'God') is both redundant and nonsensical in English. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:01, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
I don't agree that there was redundant, because God adds a meaning of Creator (see English dictionaries), so in Islam they consider their worshiped god as the only Worshiped God or as "the only Creator and only Worshiped". I will discuss this more in one new section. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 02:21, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
Reverted. You're adding "pre-Islamic" info (present in Etymology) in the Islam section. --NeilN talk to me 03:21, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

English meaning of God is not exactly like Arabic meaning of Elah

We need to notice that Allah is an arabic name, but it was called to the creator before but in Islam they call it to the creator and the worshiped God. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 02:15, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

In English dictionary it defines the word god:

(God) (In Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.

(god) (In certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes.

Therefore, the article confuses the reality when using the word God to explain the use of the name Allah. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 02:08, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

In Arabic the word Elah: is not related to creating but is only related to worshiped. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 02:15, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Elah is a noun which means the one worshiped, and it may be plural as word "Aleha". Abdusalambaryun (talk) 02:15, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what words mean in Arabic, this is an English site for readers of English. The correct use and Meaning of the English words God and god have been explained to you previously. Your edits do not make any sense in English. IdreamofJeanie (talk) 03:49, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
the article is about an Arabic name, it is not correct to explain Allah without understanding arabic. abdusalambaryun. 94.197.122.91 (talk) 15:04, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, and the correct translation of Allah into English is "God", not "God whom you worship", or "God with a long beard", or even "God who eats chips" just God. IdreamofJeanie (talk) 15:24, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Is God the Creator or the one Worshiped

The article should not confuse the God as creator or God as worshiper. Arab Christian worship the son of God mostly but they worship three The father, son, Holy Ghost. Before Islam, Arabs called the Creator as Allah but they did not consider the creator to be worshiped. Islam distinguished the reality of Ibraham religion that was worshiping the creator, which is Allah. Abdusalambaryun (talk) 01:44, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

You are being tendentious. You are making up your own distinction to try to support your personal theory which you've been pushing for weeks now. Christians believe that God is the creator and should be worshipped, and there is no other god, just as in Islam. (You don't seem to understand the Trinity. It is not three gods.) DeCausa (talk) 05:32, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
Why don't we say you are pushing for your theory of Arabic Christian using the name Allah, English Christians don't use the name Allah. Christians have different names in English and in Arabic. However, they use God for the father or creator. Christians don't worship one God because they include Jesus as son. 94.197.122.91 (talk) 15:10, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
Your knowledge of Christianity is as poor as your knowledge of English. However, it is your poor knowledge of English which means you are just wasting other editors' time. DeCausa (talk) 15:56, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Questionable claim about Christianity and the bismillāh

There's a reference to "The Trinitized bismillāh", but this as it stands is an anachronism. The phrase in question comes directly from the Gospel of Matthew and is therefore hundreds of years too old to have been derived from the bismillāh. I don't have direct access to the cited work but something has to be fixed here. Mangoe (talk) 20:47, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

This is a link to the relevant page via Google books. I understand what you're saying, but the article text does reflect what's in the source. I'm guessing, but perhaps what the source is saying is that the phrase from Matthew was used in the same way/context as the bismillah by Arab Christians, rather than phrase itself being derived from it. DeCausa (talk) 21:37, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Hanifs may not ever existed.

Nature following and the Tao (talk) 16:23, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

For all his obvious faults, Ibn Ishaq gives the earliest biographical data outside the Quran we have on Mohammed, hanifs feature prominently in his writing. Hitti refers to their ambiguous status. Can you cite a comparable secondary source which refutes their existence? Cpsoper (talk) 19:33, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Hebrew Cognate

Have added another reference for the Hebrew cognate of Allah, Elohim. Cpsoper (talk) 21:35, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

The picking and choosing occasions to translate

The article begins with the statement that: "Allah is the Arabic word for God".

I object, as dishonest, to the way that a presentation of "Allah" or "God" varies from place to place to suit arguments. If the English translation of Allah is "God" then use "God". If people want to use "Allah" then do so and do it with consistency. Don't drop reference to "Allah" without reference to the source wording. Only do so if it is decided to drop the Arabic reference on a consistent basis.

This option could be easily achieved through a move:
Allah → God in Islam
If: "Allah is the Arabic word for God" then one clear option is to make consistent use of "God".
Clarity and transparency is an issue here. Either make one set of references or the other
Gregkaye ✍♪ 08:49, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2014

In the beginning of this Wiki page, it states that Allah is the Arabic word for "god". It is not. Allah is God's name in Arabic, and the world "Ilah" means the word "god." I am an Arab, an Arabic speaker, and a Muslim, so I understand my language, and would like to see this change made to maintain accuracy. Thank you. LoverofIslam (talk) 12:22, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

This has been extensively explained previously. If you look in archive 5 (linked at the top of this page) you can see the threads where this is discussed. In English, Allah is translated as God and ilah is translated as god. Note the capitalisation of the first letter which indicates a proper nown in English grammar. Without the capitalisation it is a common noun. DeCausa (talk) 13:59, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2014

In the beginning of this Wiki page, it states that Allah is the Arabic word for "god". It is not. Allah is God's name in Arabic, and the word "Ilah" means the word "god." I am an Arab, an Arabic speaker, and a Muslim, so I understand my language, and would like to see this change made to maintain accuracy. Thank you, and I apologize for submitting this twice, I didn't know how else to fix a misspelling of, "word." LoverofIslam (talk) 12:34, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

ays above. DeCausa (talk) 14:02, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Yes, there is nothing wrong with the article. Loverofislam, if you are unfamiliar with English, see the article proper noun to understand the difference between noun types. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:28, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Of course Allah is the name of the god of Muhammad. The god is rendered as al-ilah, al = the & god = ilah, not Allah. One reason why no pre-Islamic Bible is made public is that Allah occurs nowhere as the God there. That Allah is a name & no mere adjective is clear from "bismillah etc." i.e., "by the name of Allah" where "of", obviously, is used to show that "name" belongs to, is a property of, "Allah" i.e., Allah is a name. But in the Bible God gave His name, the which is certainly not the name of the god of Muhammad.

I am a Tunisian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.225.214.113 (talk) 12:43, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Your nationality doesn't matter, your linguistic claims are out of line with reality. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:38, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Consider: "la ilaha illallah" that is there is no god except Allah. I take it that you understand by the shahada that if a concept of god (as understood in the Koran) doesn't apply to exactly one being then it applies to nothing at all. Now Muhammad believes that his concept of god applies to the God of the Bible. If you read the pre-Christian Psalm 2, you will see that that God has a Son. Muhammad denies any son for his god & therefore his god is not the God of the Bible. Should the god of Muhammad exist, his concept of god would already apply to his god & to the God of the Bible (Muhammad claims to believe in His existence). But then, according to the shahada, the concept of god as gathered from the Koran should apply to nothing at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.15.205.146 (talk) 20:52, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Please read WP:No original research. Wikipedia only summarizes academic sources without commentary, addition, or alteration. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:08, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 December 2014

"Allách" in Czech and Slovak should be replaced with "Alláh" (the word "Allách" isn't used in either language). (source) Craftext (talk) 07:13, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Done Stickee (talk) 08:59, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

about the picture "Allah script outside Eski Cami"

Hello

With respect

The picture "Allah script outside Eski Cami" reminds Jewish prayer near the wall of western wall.

It would be better if you change it with this picture: 

https://38.media.tumblr.com/0deedba04e06cb754a748cea15dd724e/tumblr_mfv7xoJIit1rer01ko1_500.jpg

--Y.shariati (talk) 08:43, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 July 2015

2606:A000:9B81:6800:3503:C73F:F34F:7EA7 (talk) 21:50, 15 July 2015 (UTC) What I Know Is... Allah was also the name of an idol, a pre-Islamic moon god, worshiped by Arabs. It's symbol was a crescent commonly found atop minarets, mosques, and emblazoned on flags from Islamic countries.

 Not done What you know is wrong, and even if it wasn't, what you know isn't listed at WP:Identifying reliable sources and goes against WP:No original research. The Star and crescent association with Islam dates back to 19th century Ottoman nationalism. Back in Muhammad's day, and even during the Crusades, it was Christians flying the star and crescent. The Ottomans were descended from Turks, and the star and crescent were tied to Turkish culture.
Your claim borders on being Not even wrong. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:17, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

ALLAH is not Al+Ilah

On 4 February 2013 (UTC)Omar Amross raised this objection, please see Archive 5, and still the page does not reflect the correction against the citations marked as 2, 3 and 4. In Arabic-English Lexicon by Edward William Lane, 1893, Book 1 page 83, there is a comprehensive discussion to understand that ALLAH is not a derivative form of Ilah. It does not fit the Arabic Grammar and if it is carried over from some previous languages then Arabic rules can not be even applied. Thus, it remains a Proper Noun as ALLAH. Syed Ali The Muslim (talk) 04:46, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

The text in the article is sourced. Also, you seem to misunderstand what it says. There's nothing in the text which suggests it isn't a proper noun and a contraction wouldn't by its nature be compliant with grammar rules. DeCausa (talk) 06:50, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

ALLAH

We agree in islam view, ALLAH is the One God.

all the source including webster, encyclopedia britinica only specific is mentioned ALLAH. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snowweatyh (talk • contribs) 11:03, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Some of the sources you were citing fail our reliable sourcing guidelines, and your phrasing violated our policy on a neutral point of view. Saying "ALLAH" over and over does not magically make those policies and guidelines disappear. Ian.thomson (talk) 11:18, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2015

Assalamu'alaikum wrb. Can we replace de 'AD' with 'CE'? It would be more appropriate. Thank you. Also, can I request page protection for other Islamic pages? Elazar Ibrahim (talk) 03:24, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

The Wikipedia manual of style says to use one system or the other in an article, but not to use both, and not to switch from one to the other without good reason. Both notations are presently used. This article does not seem closely tied to Christianity, so I see no reason for AD rather than CE and the request seems a reasonable one. Has there been previous discussion on this page?Edison (talk) 03:35, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
I couldn't find any in the archive. I've spotted 2 instances of AD and 1 of CE in the text. From the context, neither AD nor CE are necessary suffixes in any of the three instances; one option is to just delete. Aside from that, CE does seem more appropriate. DeCausa (talk) 12:33, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Done I agree, and have boldly removed 1 instance of CE, and 2 instances of AD, none are needed in context. Sam Sailor Talk! 19:52, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Templates

Islamic templates are irrelevant to this article, they should be removed since they are placed at the God in Islam article.--Makeandtoss (talk) 01:29, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Allah is a proper name, not a derived noun

Allah is the proper noun denoting the proper name of the God of the Muslims. Although al-Ilah means thee God, Allah is not derived from it. Allah's name is eternal, as with all of His Attributes. They transcend the rules of grammar according to the dictates of theology. Allah's held all His Attributes in all of eternity, they are not created, not came into existence. Further it can be seen that if you add the 'arabic definite particle with ilah, this does not grammatically form the noun Allah. We are still left with the combination al-ilah. Even the Allah is al-lah [i.e, the deity, thee God], it does not mean they are the same word, or form the same word. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andaraawoos (talk • contribs) 11:33, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Completely wrong information. Allah=الله means The God however different from the one meaning the God=الاله. The God=الله is specific to the God of the Abrahamic religions.Makeandtoss (talk) 13:24, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
The word "allah" is an english transliteration of an arabic word which literally means "the god. Many different religions use the word "allah" to refer to their respective gods. ParkH.Davis (talk) 02:11, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

English translation of word Allah is THE GOD not God

Please Note that the proper English translation of Word ALLAH is THE GOD, Not God. I testify to this along with most of the Islamic scholars. Please review all pages and edit them as appropriate.

Regards,

Adil Tareen

98.109.136.117 (talk) 01:37, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Hello. Please do not post your email address on the site. Also, please cite mainstream academic published sources for your changes, preferably secondary or tertiary ones. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:50, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
It says 'the God' in the article... Makeandtoss (talk) 01:58, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Misleading

In this article it is worded several time as to assume that Allah is the name of God in Islam. This is misleading, Allah, the word is considered as the most proper way to represent God (but not the only), in Islam unlike Judaism, God does not have a name. Claiming God has a name is considered idolatry in Islam, names of deities have changed in time, what has remained constant is the underlying presence behind the name which most Muslim call Allah to mean The God. It is for this reason why no physical representation of a specific prophet is allowed, because God can not be represented, neither with a name, a statue or anything else. Yaḥyā ‎ (talk) 21:13, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

I am not really knowledgeable in religious details such as this. But I guess you are free to change it if you have a better source ... Makeandtoss (talk) 21:52, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Someone has to quote exactly the source for this: According to Islamic belief, Allah is the proper name of God,[46] But even then, such a strong position would require more than a source, particularly when it is so obviously in contradiction with the central doctrine of Islam. See this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam أسماء الله الحسنى the confusion is easy there, but those are words to represent God, they are not names of God in Islam. This sentence can not be literally translated in English. In Greek mythologies and some others, Gods had names, Zeus etc. which insured their mortality. The reason why in Christianity the two elements (Son and Father) can have a name is because the third element (Holy Spirit) has no name (not temporal). See the Alawites representation, supreme aspect "Meaning" ma'na is separated from his "Name" "Veil" and his "Gate", this separation of the three elements is present. This is why visual representation of prophets with names can be allowed among several Shiite communities. But this doctrine is not accepted by Sunni Muslims who discard the temporal representation (name). In Islam emphasis is placed on the non-temporal element (which would deny giving god a name) while in Christianity the mortal aspect is incorporated, permitting some representations (a representation in the form of a sacrifice of the temporal). In the allegorical story of Moses in Islam, Al-Kidr is the immortal source while Moses is the Ego (name), this is even further documented while Al-Kidr does achieve immortality not bound by a name, while Moses dies.

All those articles on Islam on Wikipedia are so obviously wrong, that even the basic such as name of God is wrong. Yaḥyā ‎ (talk) 22:39, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Usage by non-Christian Arabs

According to the source indicated (Rick Brown, Who was 'Allah' before Islam? Evidence that the term 'Allah' originated with Jewish and Christian Arabs) in the lede, "Allah" originates from Christian sources, however, this is clearly not proven. Sources indicate that pagans also used the term "Allah". Therefore the statement "but has been also used by Arab Christians since pre-Islamic times" should be changed to be more inclusive of non-Christian Arabs.

"Allah was also a name used by Pagan Arabs..." [1] Xtremedood (talk) 21:47, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

An other source by Kenneth J Thomas indicates [2] " Inscriptions with Allah have been discovered in Northern and Southern Arabia from as early as the fifth century", which makes it clear that the term is far older than Christianity. Xtremedood (talk) 21:58, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Both of these sources, are however, Christian in nature written with a clearly pro-Christian bias. A non-Christian source [3] indicates on page 34: "Despite their polytheistic traditions, Arabs before Islam were also familiar with the name Allah as the name of the Supreme Being in heaven." Xtremedood (talk) 22:27, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
All better now, we just need to focus on Christianity because the term has been used continuously unlike Pagans/etc... Makeandtoss (talk) 13:17, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
@Makeandtoss: What on earth are you referring to: "the source only mentions Christianity and Jewry for ancient use"? The pages cited for this statement focus specifically on polytheistic use (pre-Islamic Christian usage is sourced further below; not sure about Jewish usage, as the page in the Hitti citation is wrong).
On the subject of Arab vs. Arabic-speaking, I see you've changed the passage from "Encyclopedia of Christianity (2001)" quoted in the citation. Were you actually able to track down and verify the source? If so, kindly provide the publisher, so we can fix the citation. This article now is either ignoring Arabic-speaking Christians who don't identify as Arab or else it takes a bold stance on these controversies. I don't think it should do either of those things. Eperoton (talk) 14:05, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Never mind, I just discovered that I was reading the wrong source.. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:15, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
@Makeandtoss: No problem. Which source do you mean, though? I don't mind explicitly mentioning pre-Islamic Arab Christians in the lead, but I'd like to confirm that your change to the quote from "Encyclopedia of Christianity (2001)" was based on source verification and not accidental. Thanks. Eperoton (talk) 14:23, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
It was accidental, as I didn't realize it was a quote. Anyway, I changed the quote but they specifically used "Arabic-speaking" to emphasize on Jews. Historically, almost all Arabic speaking Christians self identified as Arab. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:31, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the change. Your last statement doesn't ring true to me, but we don't need to debate this, since I'm ok with the way this article reads now. The encyclopedias I've just checked don't make a consistent distinction between Arab and Arabic-speaking Christians in this context, and the article does mention "Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths" further below. If someone wants to make an exception for another ethnic group in the lead, it can be added to the list. Eperoton (talk) 14:59, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
What I meant was that in the past, identities were not something consistent, unlike now.. Cheers Makeandtoss (talk) 15:06, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

The previous wording gave the impression that Muslims adopted this term from Christians, which is not proven and conflicts with the actual source. I changed it to a more neutral wording. Xtremedood (talk) 20:28, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

I didn't feel that it gave that impression. But now I feel that it gives the impression that it is today only used by Muslims.. Makeandtoss (talk) 20:34, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Usage by Arab-Christians is specifically mentioned in the lede. Implying that Muslims adopted the term from Arab Christians is not based on legitimate academic sources. I think it is undeniable that it is a term mainly used by Muslims, considering there are 1.6+ billion Muslims that use the term, whereas there are far less Arab Christians. Xtremedood (talk) 21:10, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Yeah but the current wording implies that it is only used by Muslims now. Makeandtoss (talk) 21:33, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
I didn't think adding the phrase "including Arab Christians" was necessary, since Christianity is obviously included in "all religions", but neither do I think it had the implication Xtremedood saw there. The word has been used by Arabs since before Islam, and it has been adopted by Muslims of all languages. That shouldn't be controversial. The latest change introduces multiple problems, aside from the awkward phrasing. For one it pointedly fails to mention Arab polytheists, which is what the cited source talks about. In the next sentence, the word "mainly" is dismissive towards usage by other groups, and the resuscitated citation of Merriam Webster in inappropriate since it describes usage of words in English and the lead talks about usage across different languages. Eperoton (talk) 21:51, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Since Muslims are the main group using this term it should be included in the lede. All Muslims refer to God as Allah, whereas the only Christians that refer to God as Allah are Arab-Christians. Adding Arab-Hanifs and Arab-Pagans may also be done or we can remove the whole sentence altogether. Xtremedood (talk) 23:13, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
It occurs to me that the lead is not doing its job in reflecting the content of the article. The particular prominence of Muslim usage can be indicated by adding "used by Muslims worldwide" to the first sentence, and then the rest of the lead should briefly summarize the existing sections. Of these, the section on Judaism doesn't actually seem to contain any material relevant to the subject. In general, the article seems to be in need of reorganization. Eperoton (talk) 03:46, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Square script

Biblical Aramaic is not written in Syriac script but square script. Therefore, it is not ܐܠܗܐ but אֱלָהָא (and אֱלָהּ in absolute state). Hebrew אלהים with vowel signs is אֱלֹהִים. The singular form with vowel signs would be אֱלֹהַּ or אֱלוֹהַּ, both can be found in the Bible. --132.187.85.182 (talk) 14:43, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 September 2016

2A02:C7F:DE13:B700:68EF:9C49:484F:A9C2 (talk) 03:14, 4 September 2016 (UTC) URDU: Allah

Not done: This is not an edit request. Topher385 (talk) 03:27, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2016

This page says that Allah is the God of the Abrahamic faiths, I'm a Christian and this is untrue. Allah is not the God of Judeo-Christianity. Please don't preach on Wikipedia. State facts. Allah is the Muslim god not the Christian one. 24.57.226.31 (talk) 06:51, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

See this IP's edits at Yahweh which could be seen as preaching. Doug Weller talk 07:20, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 Not done Arabic speaking Christians and Jews use the word "Allah" where English speaking Jews, Christians, and even many Muslims would say "God." And don't even try the whole "Arabic pagan moon-god" argument: "God" used to refer to Odin, and Allah is etymologically related to Elohim (both deriving from the proto-Semitic *Ilu). Ian.thomson (talk) 07:25, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2017

Can you please put instructions of how to edit semi-protected content here that actually make sense and people can understand.

The instructions of how to make changes to semi-protected documents on Wikipedia are unintelligible and just garble.

Thank you!

While you are there, please make the changes to the document (and all documents online) that state that 'Allah' means god/God in English (or any language), when in fact it does not. Only Muslims say this, to drag people into their erroneous beliefs, and are what keep them Muslim. 'Allah' is not an epithet meaning god or God, as they neither know the origins of the word 'Allah': where it comes from, who made it, why it was made, when, what it means, nor anything about the people who first used the word. The same for the word God - they know nothing, nor its origins (when the word comes from the Germanic, godt or ghutan, meaning good or invoked one, and was used for YHWH upon the arrival of Christianity to the UK in the 1st century, and not for the false god of Mecca, Arabia, and Islam, created seven centuries later.

Education is paramount and corrections more so, when staring in the face of people's from outside who come ignorant of any knowledge, truth or learning.

Regards, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mubeda (talk • contribs) 11:17, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

No chance of anyone doing that. Or of deleting all suggestions that Jesus was a god, something billions of people don't believe. We don't take sides. On the other hand, most of what you are saying is just plain wrong besides being an attack on a religion. Hm, probably all of what you wrote (although 'Germanic' is close, it derives from a Proto-Germanic word. Doug Weller talk 15:51, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
YHWH was also known as Elohim. The linguistic relationship between Elohim and Allah (both from *Ilu-) is pretty obvious and well documented besides. Just because you don't know it doesn't mean that it's unknown.
The word "God" bears no relation or similarity to any of the Hebrew words for God.
Why do you believe the word used by white Britons is somehow more authentic than those used by brown Arabs? Is it sectarianism, racism, or both? Your other edits indicate that perhaps you're here to edit out of an anti-Islamic bias instead of to neutrally summarize mainstream sources. Regardless, you need to either change your attitude or leave. Ian.thomson (talk) 04:34, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

The 99 names of Allah

Your respective greeting

To whom it may voncern

Can you please add the 99 names of Allah Maalik gogs (talk) 21:11, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello, @Maalin gogs:
We already have an article on Names of God in Islam, which is linked to in the Islam section of this article. Thank you for the suggestion, though. Ian.thomson (talk) 02:25, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 April 2017

Could I please edit this page I have very precious knowledge for everyone.

It will be a pleasure to me. Thanking You Yours Faithfully Divyam Dhawan दिव्यम धवन (talk) 06:07, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Gulumeemee (talk) 07:22, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
Also, if the "very precious knowledge" is your own personal knowledge, we cannot use it on Wikipedia. The knowledge in our articles must have been already published in reliable sources, preferably secular scholarly sources rather than religious sources. ~Anachronist (talk) 07:29, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 April 2017

PLEASE ALLOW ME TO EDIT THIS PAGE I HAVE A VERY PRECIOUS KNOWLEDGE FOR EVERYONE दिव्यम धवन (talk) 11:22, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

 Not done. Not how this works. Specify the edit here (x to y format). El_C 11:23, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 April 2017

PLEASE ALLOW ME TO EDIT THIS PAGE I HAVE A VERY PRECIOUS KNOWLEDGE FOR EVERYONE I WANT TO MAKE A CHANGE IN ITS INTRODUCTION THAT THE WORD IS NOT ORIGINALLY INVENTED IN ARABIC LANGUAGE BUT IT WAS TAKEN FROM THE SANSKRIT LANGUAGE WORD ALLAH OR ILAH WHICH MEANS GODDESS OR SHAKTI(THE FEMININE PART OF THE GOD).

I WANT TO TO BUST THIS MYTH THAT ISLAM IS INDEPENDENT.

IT IS A PART OF THE SANATAN DHARMA (ETERNAL DHARMA). ALL THE STORY OF ISLAM'S ORIGIN IS BRIEFLY DESCRIBED IN THE BHAVISHYA PURAN. THERE IS A PROPER EVIDENCE OF EVOLUTION OF ISLAM.

SO PLEASE LET THE WORLD KNOW THIS FACT THAT ALL MUSLIMS ARE WORSHIPING MAHADEV (LORD SHIVA). IT WILL BE A PLEASURE TO ME. THANKING YOU YOURS FAITHFULLY

जय श्री राम दिव्यम धवन (talk) 11:29, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. This is not a template to request additional permissions. — IVORK Discuss 11:49, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2017

Allah is the real name of the GOD. the word "illah" is the word use for meaning GOD. IN ARABIC LANGUAGE. Faizansari (talk) 09:12, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Not done: as the article opens "Allah is the Arabic word for God" - Arjayay (talk) 10:40, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Merger discussion

There exists an article Allah as Moon-god which is formatted as some sort of strange rebuttal to a series of existing articles including Allah, Islamic calendar, Star and crescent, Hubal, God in Islam, etc. If the information there stands up the scrutiny of the Wiki elite I don't see why the relevant passages can't be merged into their respective articles.

Although personally I must admit it reeks of bias against Muslims and literally the first sentence describes the entire article as a " Fringe theory " proposed by evangelicals.

Per the discussion at Talk:Allah as Moon-god, I have removed the merge tag from that article, as it seems the discussion has moved towards a move request for that article rather than a merge to this one. More eyes/opinions are welcome to participate in that discussion. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:21, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Allah/Archive_5&oldid=1142385768"