Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/USS Constellation vs La Vengeance

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

USS Constellation vs La Vengeance[edit]

Nominator(s): XavierGreen (talk)


I am nominating this article for A-Class review because it has passed a good article nomination and I believe it meets or is close to A-class standards. This action was the second frigate duel fought between the United States and France during the Quasi-War. Any input or advice is greatly appreciated. XavierGreen (talk) 18:18, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport

  • Ship name: la Vengeance or La Vengeance? The first is the correct way in French; the latter matches USS Constellation vs L'Insurgente and your sources.
  • Check links, example: stern chasers, Topman
    • I've now linked them.XavierGreen (talk) 01:27, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Topman links to a clothing retailer so for now I changed it to link to Captain of the Top but maybe you can rewrite that sentence or use a redlink?
  • I didn't see where the American casualties was mentioned or cited in the prose.
    • It is in the second section of the Aftermath section.XavierGreen (talk) 01:27, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The infobox image probably needs to be replaced unless you come up with a different PD rational - its still in copyright. Kirk (talk) 19:30, 12 July 2011 (UTC)'[reply]
    • Here's another picture; the image needs a year added so we can clarify its PD status - does your source have that? Kirk (talk) 13:53, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • In regards to the image i have in the infobox the exact date is unknown though it is certaintly well before 1942. It is possible that it was created before 1923, though the painting is in possesion of the Maritime Museaum as part of their Bailey Collection and despite their research they have no idea when it was made exactly. Originally they thought it was made by a different artist in the 1800's, though they eventually discovered that it was created by Irwin Bevan as part of a book that apparently never was finished. Do you think i can Fair-use it, since there arnt really any colour pictures available in public domain? Regardless of when it was made, it should be in the public domain by next year at the very latest.XavierGreen (talk) 01:35, 19 July 2011 (UTC)XavierGreen (talk) 01:27, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think so since it appears to be a work that was either unpublished or never registered; I would put your summary of the provenance somewhere on the image page. Also, how was the actual .jpg file created - did you create it yourself? I'd put that somewhere on the page as well and you are good to go. Finally, list and link to the maritime museum you are talking about so we know which one its in! Kirk (talk) 21:13, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Inconsistencies - what appeared to be a 54-gun frigate flying British colours vs. the vessel chasing him was a superior 55-gun warship : I don't know what Palmer says, but I think this could be more consistent. Kirk

(talk) 20:10, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • I dont see any inconsistancies. Both captains mistook the armaments of their opponents. Truxton thought that the French vessel had 54 guns, Pitot thought that the American frigate had 55.XavierGreen (talk) 01:35, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Still needs some attention to tompen and the PD for the image, but looks good otherwise. Kirk (talk) 21:13, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 21:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • About la Vengeance: I see "colours" so I'm assuming this is BritEng, and I don't know what the British style guides say about this. American guides recommend either La Vengeance or Vengeance. - Dank (push to talk) 19:46, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah, I see I'm wrong, "maneuvered" suggests this is AmEng. Okay then, please go with La Vengeance or Vengeance, and fix "colours".
  • "Despite Pitot's attempts to flee, his frigate was drawn into a heavy engagement with Constellation. Despite ...": Avoid successive uses of "despite".
  • "in 'la Vengeance": typo, and see above.
  • "36 American prisoners of war and eighty passengers", "fifteen of her crew slain and a further 25 wounded of whom eleven", "twenty five": see WP:ORDINAL, and aim for consistency.
  • "if possible.[6][4]": If you're headed to FAC, reverse the order of the citations.
  • "double shotted broadside": needs a hyphen, and it's linked to double-barreled cannon ... Didn't you mean to link to double-shotted?
  • "foresails were shot away and as a result the frigate lost its maneuverability ...": "foresails were shot away and the frigate lost its maneuverability ...". This is a common mistake with Milhist editors. If the reader would assume that you mean "as a result", then don't say "as a result", because saying it implies that you're calling special attention to some causal connection that the reader wouldn't otherwise get, which I don't think you want to do here.
  • "hurled grenades and musket fire ...": I would think shooting them would be more effective than throwing the shot.
  • WP:Checklist#second commas needed: "Port Royal, Jamaica".
  • Sometimes you write "the Constellation", sometimes just "Constellation"; be consistent. - Dank (push to talk) 21:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I believe i have now fixed all these issues. Thanks for reviewing the article!XavierGreen (talk) 01:16, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on prose per standard disclaimer. I finished it up, and just noted another reversed order of refs: "[8][6]". - Dank (push to talk) 01:44, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - with a few comments:
    • Three dabs [1]
    • External links check out [2] (no action required);
    • The Earwig Tool reveals no issues with copyright violation or close paraphrasing [3] (no action required);
    • This sentence is problematic to me: "In order to prevent French attacks against American merchantmen in the Caribbean, the United states maintained four squadrons of United States Navy vessels in the region." Specifically you use 'United States' twice. Might it be more simply reworded like this: "In order to prevent French attacks against American merchantmen in the Caribbean, the United States Navy maintained four squadrons of vessels in the region."?
    • Maybe use the {{convert}} template here: "to within twenty five yards of his vanquished";
    • The second paragraph in the "Engagement" section seems a little long, so you might consider splitting it (suggestion only though);
    • This sentence has a number of issues: "Once the action ended, Constellation sailed towards Port Royal, Jamaica, in order to refit, having suffered heavy damage with 15 of her crew slain and a further 25 wounded of whom eleven later died of their wounds":
      • Numbers here should be "11" not "eleven" per WP:MOSNUM I believe;
      • Punctuation also, as there probably should be at least a comma after "further 25 wounded";
      • Also a little repetitive, specifically "25 wounded" and "died of their wounds", maybe reword like this: "Once the action ended, Constellation sailed towards Port Royal, Jamaica, in order to refit, having suffered heavy damage with 15 of her crew slain and a further 25 wounded, of whom 11 later died." Anotherclown (talk) 10:44, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have now fixed all these issues, thanks for the review!XavierGreen (talk) 19:26, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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