Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 415

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Sort Articles by traffic

Is there an option to generate a list of articles in a Wikiproject sorted by traffic? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 10:36, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

The Wikipedia:Signpost, wikipedia's own internal newsletter, includes a weekly top 10 Traffic Report, highlighting the most visited articles. The most recent report is here. There are more direct ways to find out this info, but the traffic report is nicely formatted and efforts are made to filter out automated visits and the like. You can also get a weekly top 25 report from the same poeple at Wikipedia:Top 25 Report. --LukeSurl t c 12:20, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply, but I was looking a more specific list. Like articles in order of pageviews whose talk pages have a WP India tag. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 12:26, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Ah, sorry, misread your question. I think the answer is basically no, that sort of list isn't generated anywhere that I'm aware of. You could check traffic for a few individual articles using stats.grok.se maybe. --LukeSurl t c 13:00, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Ohh, in that case, is there anywhere where I can request such a list. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 13:47, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
As far as I know, no Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ (talk) 15:33, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Capankajsmilyo, I'm not sure why all these people are telling you this isn't done. Assuming something like Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Popular pages is what you mean, these lists are compiled automatically by Mr.Z-bot—you need to go here to ask the bot to include your project if it's not already included on Category:Lists of popular pages by WikiProject. ‑ iridescent 16:04, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Well I've learned something new today as well! --LukeSurl t c 16:45, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Template help

Hello, I've tried to make the Template:IPSC_Championships, however I must have done something wrong since I can't edit it. Can anybody please help me fix it? Sauer202 (talk) 17:39, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Hey. It's a little funny, but clicking the "E" for edit link on an article that transcludes Template:IPSC_Championships brought up the editing interface of Template:International Practical Shooting Confederation Championships which doesn't exist. That's because the "name=" parameter of the template was set to "International Practical Shooting Confederation Championships". I've changed this to "IPSC_Championships" and it should be sorted now. --LukeSurl t c 17:48, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you very much! :) Sauer202 (talk) 17:51, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Changing the title of an article

Hi. How can I change the name of an article that I've already submitted for the review? I named it 'Dj Ventolin' in the first place, then it was rejected, I've edited it in order to be suitable for the Main Space and I wanted also to change the title into 'Ventolin (musician)', but I coulnd't find the way to do it. Can you please tell how can that be done? Thank you! Sorina Neaga (talk) 13:29, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

@Sorina Neaga: welcome to the teahouse!
to change the page name you would use the WP:MOVE function.
However, the name that the page is under in draft space is of little concern - what you need to do is establish that the subject has received a significant level of coverage from sources that are not related to the subject and those sources are reliably published sources with reputations for fact checking and editorial oversight (national news papers, standard book publishers, academic journals, and in this case major music magazines) . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:39, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 Done Sam Sailor Talk! 13:40, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Note: To prevent disruption, only accounts older than 4 days with 10 or more edits can move pages - your account will reach the required age in a couple of days. --LukeSurl t c 13:42, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
As aforementioned you can but make sure your following the rules of wikipedia while doing so.Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ (talk) 18:49, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Does a Musician's Facebook Verification Signify Notability?

Hello,

I have recently submitted an article on Lighnin Malcolm. Although he has approx. 13,000 [1] Facebook followers and has been officially "verified" by the site I am having trouble establishing his notoriety due to insufficient media coverage outside of the hill country blues community. Can anyone let me know if Facebook verification is justification for establishing notability?

Thanks for the Help

Al

AlexPianovich (talk) 15:58, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, AlexPianovich. No, a Facebook page is not evidence of notability, which requires independent sources. Please read our notability guideline for musicians. If you can't make a plausible case that the performer meets that guideline, then you should not attempt to write the article. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 16:10, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
We primarily care about what OTHER people have to say, not what the subject wants to say about themselves. see WP:42 -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 16:23, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
I wonder if the user is referring to the verified symbol on the page itself... Alex can you please reply clarifying your question. Thanks Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ (talk) 20:13, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
That wouldn't change the fact that in order to establish notability as defined on Wikipedia, we require significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the topic. Facebook verifying a page doesn't count as coverage. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:16, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Pictures

How do I add images to my wikipedia article and info box?ARuddock (talk) 20:43, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Answered below. There's no need to start a new section for follow-up questions here - it's best to keep the discussion together. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:48, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Why can't I see an article that I have created in the search bar results on the website?

I created an article named Iceni Academy, however, there are two articles with the same name. My 'Iceni Academy' is the article that I can not see. The one I can see was the former Methwold school in Norfolk. My Iceni Academy article is about a primary academy which is new in Colchester, Essex. Thank you for your help.East Anglian Regional (talk) 20:29, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello, East Anglian Regional, and welcome to the Teahouse. I believe that it's because you created the article with a typo in the title, at Iceni Aademy. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:33, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
It's now moved to Iceni Academy (Colchester). Needs some work though. --NeilN talk to me 20:38, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Hey Cordless Larry. I think your edits conflicted with my move and delete. I re-deleted Iceni Aademy. Hope you don't mind. --NeilN talk to me 20:41, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
No worries. I was just tagging it as unreferenced. I've added that template to the article in its new location. I didn't know that that type of conflict could happen with a page move, but no harm done. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:43, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Neither did I. The page I deleted showed you as the sole editor of the article. Pretty strange. --NeilN talk to me 20:51, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Articles

How do you make your own wikipedia page about somethingElissa101 (talk) 01:04, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse Elissa101. A good place to start is by reading Wikipedia:Your first article. —teb728 t c 01:16, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Can I get autopatrolled with new account?

Hi, as several of you know, I lost my password and had to create this new account. (I was told by an admin that Wikipedia had been hacked and accounts were compromised, so I think this may be what happened to me.) Anyway, I would like to get autopatrolled rights but I'm afraid that having this new account will kill my chances. White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 22:05, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

White Arabian Filly, I don't see how you can say your account was hacked and compromised when you repeatedly said you forgot the password and a checkuser looked at your accounts. As far as autopatrol rights, you should see if you are eligible and link to your previous account. Liz Read! Talk! 22:09, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
There was some discussion of the account perhaps having been compromised in the AN/I discussion, but that doesn't seem a likely explanation to me. It's just a case of a forgotten password as far as I can tell. Anyway, welcome back, White Arabian (Mare) Filly. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:17, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Liz, I probably did forget the password, but after having my computer hacked 3 or 4 years ago, which destroyed my email and a lot of other things, I'm not sure. I thought I was using the correct password, multiple times, and kept getting an error message. It does seem suspicious that I started having problems at the same time as others were reporting similar issues and hacking of multiple accounts, so I think being hacked was a possibility. It was probably my error, but I'm not going to totally rule out hacking as the cause. Thanks, Cordless Larry, I'm glad to be back. I redirected the old userpage to the new one, but am having some trouble doing that with the talk pages, since a bot thought I was vandalizing. White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 23:33, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back, White Arabian female horse! I would do the talk page redirect for you, except that it occurs to me that doing that might hide (or obliterate) the talk page history from the White Arabian mare account. Moving the page from User talk:White Arabian mare to User talk:White Arabian Filly would also overwrite page history (in the opposite direction) if I'm not mistaken. I think what's needed is a merge, but I've never performed one of those. Can a volunteer who has dealt with this kind of situation before please advise? —GrammarFascist contribstalk 01:36, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Seeking some assistance with links in an info-box

Can anyone walk me through the correct way to add links to a list of awards in an info box? I seem to be doing it in correctly, so that the links show up as small numbers, rather than as hyper links. THANKS !DR1996 (talk) 22:00, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello, DR1996. In Sacha Pfeiffer, you're putting URLs in double square brackets. Wikilinks (links within Wikipedia) should be in double square brackets, but should be the name of the article, not a URL. So [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulitzer_Prize_for_Public_Service]] appears as [[2]], as you've seen; but [[Pulitzer Prize for Public Service]] appears as Pulitzer Prize for Public Service. However, several of these awards are unreferenced and should either be cited to reliable sources, or removed from the article. --ColinFine (talk) 22:31, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
So, HOW can I fix that? Should I use different brackets? Also, how to add hyoerlinks to the info-box, my original question?DR1996 (talk) 23:07, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
The trick with the links you have there so far, which are all to Wikipedia articles, is not to use hyperlinks but rather to just put the article name in double square brackets. Cordless Larry (talk) 23:25, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Actually, in the article, there are EXTERNAL links, which do show up properly under "References."
I am attempting to add external links to the awards section in the" info-box" on the right side. Using Virtual Editor, have not found a way to do that. Any help is appreciated!DR1996 (talk) 01:16, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Also, how does one insert bullet points into an "info-box?"DR1996 (talk) 01:54, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello, DR1996. The crux of the problem is that there are not supposed to be any external links in the infobox, except perhaps a single link to the official website of the person, place or thing the article is about. Any information that's included in the infobox is supposed to also be in the body of the article, and in the body of the article that information should be cited to a source (citations can include external links) using <ref> tags. See Help:Referencing for beginners, and feel free to return with any further questions. —GrammarFascist contribstalk 02:02, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Is there a way to add these reference tags that you refer to using VISUAL Editor? Thank you !DR1996 (talk) 02:12, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

How to "talk" with TRPoD who left me a message and why doesn't Join the Discussion work?

Sorry for the newbie questions, but I'm lost trying to find the answers by clicking around the site:( I received a message from TRPoD The Red Pen of Doom and I can't figure out how to reply to him/her.

Also, on my original question, I tried to reply to the answers received by clicking "Join this Discussion" and putting the TheRealReel (talk) 01:32, 13 November 2015 (UTC) after I filled out the box which popped up, but it has not appeared under that question thread. Where did it go?TheRealReel (talk) 01:32, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello again, TheRealReel, and welcome back to the Teahouse. I found where your response had gone and moved it into the correct section. What sometimes happens at the Teahouse is that a new question/section will be added to the page after you last reloaded the page but before you clicked "Join this discussion". Because the script that tells the page which section you want to reply to is relative rather than absolute, this causes the response to be placed in an adjacent section. The best way to avoid having it happen in the future is to reload the page right before you click "Join this discussion", which will make it much less likely (though not impossible) that the page will be shifted down by a new section or sections being added.
Don't worry about asking newbie questions, though; that's what the Teahouse is here for! —GrammarFascist contribstalk 01:56, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello @TheRealReel: - there are multiple ways to talk to people. The easiest is just to go to their talk page and start a discussion. Another way is to ping them so they get a flag in their "messages" window and there are multiple ways to do that. You can use the ping template like i did for you at the beginning of this message, or you can just type User:THEIR OFFICIAL USER NAME WITH CORRECT SPACES AND CAPS and then sign your post and save. For me it would be User:TheRedPenOfDoom because my signature is different than my actual user name. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:07, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Following on from TRPoD's message above, the message TRPoD left on your user talk page ended with the signature "TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom", which (if you click on it) links to User talk:TheRedPenOfDoom. You may not have realised that it was a link, because instead of showing up blue as a normal wikilink it was coloured red by TRPoD's preferences; it isn't actually a redlink. - David Biddulph (talk) 02:15, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Removing content from a page, but it still shows up in the revision history

I am brand new to Wikipedia and was trying to edit a page for an actress. Someone had included her birth year and that is never supposed to be done in the acting industry as you play a range of ages and stating your specific age hampers that. However, when I clicked on the History Revision for her page, it shows what I removed, thus defeating my efforts. Can you tell me how to clear out the history revision when it contains information that shouldn't be published? Thank you TheRealReel (talk) 11:43, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

The process for expunging information from the History is discussed at Wikipedia:Revision deletion, and there are links there regarding how to request this. I wouldn't worry too much however, only a small % of people, probably mostly wiki editors rather than casting directors, are likely to even be aware of the history revision aspect of Wikipedia. --LukeSurl t c 11:58, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
@TheRealReel: welcome to the Teahouse!
We are not a resume service hosting only promotional information to help people get jobs. We are an encyclopedia providing encyclopedic content about the subjects we cover. When a person was born is an encyclopedic fact about a person and so it is something we include if reliably published sources provide that information. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:00, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
On checking, it is unclear that the actress in question meets the notability critera for actors, as she has had only one named role in a feature film, which is not really sufficient. Additionally the article about that film does not provide evidence that the film is notable. It's quite probable that this material could be deleted from Wikipedia, rendering this revision history issue moot. --LukeSurl t c 12:05, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
The article in question is Ciara Flynn, and it has been proposed for deletion as an unsourced biography of a living person. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:55, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your answers. The actress did not create the page on Wikipedia and is certainly not interested in "a resume service hosting only promotional information to help people get jobs". She, as yet, doesn't even know about this page's existence. I was checking the Internet under her name and this popped up out of the blue. She would have no objection to the page being deleted. That will be fine with her. As future performances are released, if another page should be established by anyone, the birthdate issue would need to be addressed. We respect that Wikipedia is encyclopedic in nature, but the birthdate, in the case of the acting industry, represents an invasion of privacy. This might be difficult to understand if you are not involved in the entertainment industry, but it is a very real component of the business. Thank you for your link to clearing a revision's history. Any further ideas or links as to how this can be addressed (if a page should happen to be established)will be much appreciated. Thank you for your hard work; Wikipedia is very important!TheRealReel (talk) 01:15, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
(moved from incorrect section by GrammarFascist contribstalk 01:41, 13 November 2015 (UTC) )
Republishing information which is already public is not "an invasion of privacy" by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, you are simply mistaken about publicly-known birthdates being a death knell for an actress's career. I note that — among many hundreds of others — Quvenzhané Wallis, Angelina Jolie and Helen Mirren all have their birthdates on their Wikipedia articles, yet their careers have not come to a grinding halt as a result. Please reconsider your position, or at least reconsider trying to convince other editors that reliably-sourced information should be removed from articles, as that is not going to get you anywhere. —GrammarFascist contribstalk 01:50, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your answers, you are providing a vital service to newcomers. I've reloaded the page prior to clicking on Join this discussion and will try again. Regarding the birthdate question, I am not trying to start an argument and I sincerely hope that is understood. Regarding your examples, if an actress is obviously well past being able to portray a teenager or someone in their twenties, in other words, they are middle-aged AND they are firmly entrenched in the entertainment industry with a long career behind them, their age may not matter to such an extent. I can't say that for certain, however, because there is talk of a lawsuit against IMDb for posting an actress' age who happened to be 40. I am not trying to influence any editor. There are ethical questions involved when it can harm a person's work chances. You rightfully do not want people using Wikipedia for self-promotion, but that means the reverse is also true: Wikipedia should not have a negative effect on their efforts to market their trade. The actress in question is obviously very young, so I am speaking on behalf of actresses in general. You stated that the information was obtained from public sources and I believe you. However, I have done extensive Internet searches of various public figures and have not found any source listing the birthdate except Wikipedia. Obviously, I've not found something and would very much appreciate it if you would tell me what these public sources are so I can contact them? I believe even government sources give a citizen the right to opt out of having their information published if they so desire. If someone does not object to having their birthdate on Wikipedia, that's fine and it's their choice. Likewise, if someone felt that publishing their birthdate in such a well-known and easily accessible source would be harmful to them in any way, I can't imagine any editor objecting to its removal. Again, thank you and I hope you will take this in the positive spirit in which it is meant.TheRealReel (talk) 05:24, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
@TheRealReel: Her birth year was never cited to a published source; so you did well to remove it. In addition our policy on Biographies of living persons protects personal information like birth dates (unless the information has been widely published by reliable sources or by sources linked to the subject). But that protection is linked to concern about identity theft and seem limited to month and date, since it recommends inclusion of only the year where wide publication is lacking. —teb728 t c 08:28, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello, TheRealReel, and thanks for your comments. Just to clarify one thing: you say "If someone does not object to having their birthdate on Wikipedia, that's fine and it's their choice", but that's not how Wikipedia works. We don't give the subjects of articles veto over what gets included. All we do is report what published sources say about topics. In this particular case, it seems that those sources are lacking, in which case the date of birth should indeed be removed. However, it wouldn't be removed just because an actor objected, if the information was widely available elsewhere. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:39, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Not sure what to do

Hello, I was topic banned for Indian religions some time back. I requested for peer review of Mahavira and nominated few Jainism related articles for GA prior to that. Since I am topic banned I cant contribute in any of them anymore and they stay pending. I want to nominate an other article for peer review (not related to topic ban). Can you please tell me the possible options before me. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 07:23, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Pankav Jain. If you are sure the other article is not covered by your topic ban that should not cause any problems.Charles (talk) 10:34, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Charlesdrakew. Does this means that I can nominate more than 1 article at a time for peer review? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 10:40, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Capankajsmilyo, Wikipedia:Peer review is fairly clear that "Users are limited to requesting one review at any one time". There is a substantial backlog there. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:54, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood the situation. You are topic banned from an article that you currently have under peer review. I'm not sure whether that exempts you from the one-per-user rule, but given the backlog I would suggest trying to avoid putting too much strain on the peer review system. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:57, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

i need to help

how do i change my username and I do not know how to do footnotes what is the format I am so lost

Brifans (talk) 14:26, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

hello @Brifans: !
The name change procedure is outlined Wikipedia:Changing username
And information about formatting references is WP:REFB
Information about what types of publications are suitable for use as references is WP:RS. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:29, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Your question about footnotes has been answered below, Brifans. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:56, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

How to split Brima Acha Kamara

Hi, this article was about the Sierra Leone chief of police, but when a new chief was appointed (Francis Alieu Munu) his details were added to the original article. I guess the article needs to be split into two, just unsure as to the best way to do this (to maintain history etc) Any ideas ? Thanks GrahamHardy (talk) 15:29, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi GrahamHardy. Interesting find; the article has apparently been like that for more than 4 years. When copying text within Wikipedia, it is important to note as you mentioned that all text needs to attributed to its authors to satisfy Wikipedia's licensing obligations. According to WP:CWW, the bare minimum that is necessary to ensure this is simply to provide a link to the source page in your edit summary when you split the article, so that way a link to the previous history is accessible from the new one. WP:PROPERSPLIT gives a step-by-step procedure for doing this. If you have any further questions, please let us know. Best of luck, Mz7 (talk) 15:50, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

How can I get a header taken down?

Dear Sirs, I wrote this page: Cypress Grove (musician). After that someone added information that wasn't verifiable, I took it down and reported the problem. At that point a header was placed on the page saying: This biographical article needs additional citations for verification. Please help by adding reliable sources. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful. All the information I wrote is verifiable and referenced correctly so would it be possible to take the header down? Thank you very much. Athenaathena07Athenaathena07 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:25, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

At the Teahouse, new questions go at the top of the page, Athenaathena07, so I've moved this one up for you to make sure that it gets noticed. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:57, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Looking at that article, there are no references about his DoB, his degree, his parents, his early bands, musical direction or meeting Jeffrey Lee Pierce .... so IMHO, the tag should stay. - Arjayay (talk) 14:11, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
I would just add that tags like this are not a criticism of the article (or the editor); they are just there to help other editors make productive contributions. Any editor can remove the tag once they are satisfied that the issue has been fixed. And of course, if you would like a second opinion you're always welcome to ask at the Teahouse.--Gronk Oz (talk) 15:27, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

So, what do you suggest? Adding his birth certificate, degree, etc.? Isn't there a privacy rule about this kind of information being published? His musical choices are referenced in the interviews he made and that I have added to the references. His encounter with Jeffrey Lee Pierce is referenced in the photo with the two together and the record they made together. His early bands is the sentence I had taken down because there were no references to it. The rest is all first hand information from the musician himself. So what can I do? Please give me a hand on how to solve this issue. Thank you Athenaathena07 (talk) 15:30, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi again, Athenaathena07. Let me step back for just a moment. A key tenet of Wikipedia is "Verifiability", which means "that anyone using the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source". This means especially that any material that is likely to be questioned must be supported by references. Not all references are equal: some are more reliable than others, and the more contentious a claim is, the stronger the references need to be that support it. This becomes especially difficult when the information comes directly from the person involved: they know all about it, but it is not verifiable. Indeed, Wikipedia generally tries to avoid relying on what a person says about themselves, because there is no way to judge how balanced their view is. So what you really need is to find where this information has been covered in secondary sources such as newspaper articles. There is no urgency to get this all done at once, and you may find that other editors will contribute too. Gather your references and incorporate them where they improve the article.--Gronk Oz (talk) 16:53, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much Athenaathena07 (talk) 16:58, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

MESS UP WITH REFERENCES LAY OUT - PLEASE HELP!

hI,

i'VE JUST CREATED A NEW PAGE, BUT THE REFERENCES SECTION FOR SOME WEIRD REASON HAS DUPLICATED ITSELF TWICE. IF ANYONE CAN HELP, I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL!

CHEERS,

Beryl reid fan (talk) 17:11, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi,

Sorry forgot to add the link to the page I'm having difficulty with oddly duplicated references:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robinson_(painter)

Beryl reid fan (talk) 17:14, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Beryl reid fan
You did not close your last reference with a </ref> - I have added it and now looks normal. Unpaired instructions are a common cause of weird formatting.
And please stop SHOUTING i.e. please stop using BLOCK CAPITALS - thanks - Arjayay (talk) 17:20, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Arjayay, thanking you ever so much. Please accept a virtual cup of tea and cake of your choice. Beryl reid fan (talk) 17:24, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Winnowing the most relevant items from an over-long list

Hello, Teahouse colleagues. Yesterday I created Camden Crawl about a UK music festival. An IP editor has joined in helping to flesh out the article, but several of their edits were to add full listings of all performers for a given year, amounting to dozens of names each. I'm inclined to think this is not encyclopedic, and that highlights of the most significant names would suffice. However, my initial plan, to just remove any names that either had no Wikipedia article or that had only a stub article, was insufficient; the majority of the names I checked appear to be notable. I know basically nothing about the UK indie / alternative music scene myself. Would any of you happen to have ideas for how to further pare these long lists down to a handful for each year? Thanks in advance, GrammarFascist contribstalk 02:15, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

That's obviously a problem. I haven't looked yet, but my initial thought is to look at a survey of what has been done in other, similarly situated articles, so Category:Music festival templates looks like a good launching point.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:40, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
There are a ton that list every lineup, but I can't say they're much to go by since what a lot of poor, unsourced articles there are in this area – and of those that list every lineup, I don't think there's many that have such numbers: 200 acts for 2014 alone. There are list articles like Reading and Leeds Festivals line-ups to maybe give an idea of how to format it if listing them all is considered. I feel like you do: it feels off, but I'm just not sure what's best here. Maybe ask if anyone at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musicians or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music has any ideas?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:53, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
I see what you mean - I just went through the list for 2007 and Wikilinked all the artists who have articles. As a result, it is nearly all blue - so you can't do a meaningful cull based on that criterion. (Feel free to revert that change if you think the sea of blue is not helpful.) If it were up to me, I would be tempted to put all that material into a collapsible box - but the MOS says "boxes that toggle text display between hide and show, should not conceal article content, including reference lists, tables or lists of article content". Hopefully, somebody else will come up with a better solution.--Gronk Oz (talk) 05:32, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
I was interested to read about this, GrammarFascist, as I recently discovered the templates {{Famous}} and {{List missing criteria}} and was thinking about the implications for ethnic group articles that include lists of notable people who are part of that group (an issue I'd been aware of previously, but hadn't really found too much policy guidance on). An obvious suggestion would be to only report what independent sources say about each edition of the festival. So, for example, in any given year are there newspaper reviews of the festival that mention particular highlights? If so, the list could include just the bands mentioned there. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:19, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
@Fuhghettaboutit, Gronk Oz, and Cordless Larry: Thank you all for your input (and extra thanks to Gronk Oz for lending a hand with formatting and intralinking one of the long lists). The two templates Cordless Larry suggested will be useful on other pages, I think, but not here, as there's the obvious argument that whether an act performed at the festival in a given year is the criterion for inclusion. I followed Fuhghettaboutit's suggestion and took the issue to the Music and Musicians WikiProjects; the conversation is proceeding at one of the WikiProject pages here, for anyone interested in following along or joining in. It's been suggested that tables rather than lists would help, but since there are so many names to include, I've proposed creating one table in the timeline style to show which acts played when, as many of them performed more than one year. Hopefully enough editors who regularly work on music articles will contribute to the discussion to develop a good consensus. I'm hesitant to be overly-bold since I don't have much background in this area of Wikipedia. Thanks again, GrammarFascist contribstalk 17:41, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I wasn't necessarily suggesting use of those templates here, but mentioned them for wider context. As you say, the inclusion criteria here could just be that the band played at the festival. I still think that relying on media coverage to decide which acts to mention could work as an alternative to listing them all, though. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:47, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Draft: Briana Roy

NAC:Being discussed down page. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:55, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I declined the draft Draft:Briana Roy, stating that it was a BLP that lacked in-line references, and so it was difficult to assess her notability in terms of notability guidelines for actors and actresses. User:Brifans posted to my talk page, saying that they didn't know how to do footnoting. The answer to that is to read WP:REFB and then referencing, but User:Brifans then proceeded to resubmit the draft twice and have it declined twice again, and the third reviewer said that 3 times in 1 day was too much. What comments do any other experienced editors have for this enthusiastic inexperienced editor and about this draft? (By the way, User:Brifans, are you a person or a fan club? Group accounts are not allowed.) Robert McClenon (talk) 17:22, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this here, Robert McClenon, but User:Brifans has already posted a few questions for us below. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:43, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

actor new article

I am trying to make a wikipedia for an actor who claimed to fame , I have many sources and evidence but unfortunately it keeps saying i need to cite the sources using footnotes , I do not know what that means . what are footnotes ? can I see an example ? my article name is Briana Roy PLEASE HELP ME SHE DESERVE A WIKIPEDIA SHE HAD A LEAD ROLE IN A MAJOR MOVIE WITH BIG HOLLYWOOD ACTORS Brifans (talk) 06:50, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

For reference, Draft:Briana Roy. —teb728 t c 07:06, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Brifans, you would be well advised not to use ALL CAPS, either here or in the article. Doing so in the article breaches Wikipedia's manual of style, and doing so here gives the impression that you are shouting, which appears rude. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:01, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
To answer your question, footnotes are superscript numbers that appear in the text. When you click on them, your browser takes you to a note with the corresponding number in the references section of the article. That note contains details of a source that supports the material that the footnote follows. To learn how to do this, please read Help:Referencing for beginners. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:04, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Hello, Brifans, and welcome to the Teahouse. For instructions on adding inline citations to the draft article, I recommend Help:Footnotes. I would also like to point out that ALL CAPS looks like yelling on the internet, and is not appropriate for a Wikipedia article. Another issue with the draft is that it does not appear to meet Wikipedia's Golden Rule, something that correct reference formatting may help with. Finally, as the reviewer pointed out, your username implies that more than one Briana fan is sharing one Wikipedia account, which is not allowed, so you should at a minimum change your username, and if necessary create separate accounts for each human who has used it. Good luck, and feel free to return to the Teahouse with any further questions. —GrammarFascist contribstalk 08:05, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
To summarize, the original poster created a draft in a sandbox and submitted it. I moved it into draft space but then declined it, because it lacks in-line citations, and biographies of living persons must have in-line citations. The original poster then posted to my talk page asking for advice, saying that they did not know how to create footnotes. The answer to that is to read referencing for beginners and Referencing, and, if one has difficulties with the references (and references are difficult), ask for help here or at the Help Desk. (Many of the questions that we get here and at the Help Desk are about footnotes, because even experienced editors have difficulty with them.) However, without waiting for an answer, I see that the original poster has resubmitted the draft article twice without addressing the original request, and has posted this question here. Posting this question here would have been a reasonable response, more reasonable than resubmitting without correcting, except, as noted, the post is SHOUTING. On the Internet, the use of ALL CAPS has long been considered SHOUTING and is rude, which is not conducive to getting friendly advice. Follow the instructions in the guidelines and see if you can format the footnotes. If you have difficulty, ask for help politely, and do not resubmit a draft without responding to the original reason for a decline. Continuing to resubmit a draft that has been declined without addressing the concerns is a formula to get it nominated for Miscellany for Deletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:17, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Also, is the original poster a fan club, or a member of a fan club? Accounts should be used by individuals, not by groups? Robert McClenon (talk) 18:17, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
The editor claims to be Briana Roy's publicist, Robert McClenon, so there is a clear conflict of interest. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:15, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

How to make a page when one already exists with that name

Hi there, I have read some of the help pages about disambiguation but I'm still not clear on how to do this - I want to start a new article on Helen Gibson, a New Zealand educator, but there is already a page Helen Gibson about an American woman of the same name. How do I start a page for the NZ Helen, and set up a disambiguation page to clarify there are two people with that name in the Encyclopedia. Thanks! MurielMary (talk) 08:48, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, MurielMary. You could call your article Helen Gibson (educator), adding a Wikipedia:Hatnote to the other article at the top. When your article is accepted, you would add a hatnote to your article at the top of the other article. Is that clear enough? —teb728 t c 09:35, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for that. By doing it the way you describe, a reader searching for "Helen Gibson" would be taken to the American woman's page, would they? And then have a note redirecting to the NZ Helen? Is this because the American page was created before the NZ one will be? I'm wondering why I can't create a disambig page so that a reader searching for "Helen Gibson" would be taken to a page where they can choose between the American and the NZ Helen? Cheers! MurielMary (talk) 09:42, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Which page gets to be at Helen Gibson, or whether that is a disambiguation page, is determined by which is considered the primary topic. I wouldn't worry about this for now, and suggest that you go ahead with creating the article via Wikipedia:Articles for creation. It can always be moved at a later stage. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:47, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
I see, OK, thanks for the advice! MurielMary (talk) 09:58, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
MurielMary, even if the article you plan to create doesn't end up being the primary topic, it wouldn't be necessary to always go to the other article first. When someone types "Helen Gibson" in to the search box, the search engine brings up a list of suggestions, and the searcher could choose "Helen Gibson (educator) from the list. Try it with "Mark Jones" and you will see what I mean. That's why a disambiguation page is not usually needed when there are only two people with the same name.—Anne Delong (talk) 12:39, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
MurielMary, the same technique (with hatnotes) can be used when there are three people involved too - see the hatnotes at Brian Schmidt for example. Creating a disambiguation page is normally more trouble than it is worth for situations like this, since among other things all the references to the existing page would need to be redirected. As long as the reader can easily find the article they are looking for, we count that as a success.--Gronk Oz (talk) 15:36, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the additional answers, Gronk Oz and Anne Delong! MurielMary (talk) 20:31, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Citations

I am curious about the number of citations you are allowed to use here? I want to help adding relevant cites but if multiple areas require citations should they be different sources, or can you use the same one? Thanks!Sara Marshal (talk) 19:59, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Sara Marshal. There is no maximum number of citations and detailed articles on complex topics frequently use more than one hundred. A single citation can be used many times for various facts throughout an article. For an example, take a look at an article I mostly wrote, Harry Yount, where one source, an article in a historical journal by William Supernaugh, is cited over twenty times. Please read WP:REFNAME for the details about how to do so. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 20:37, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
There is a technical limit: Help:Cite errors/Cite error references no backlink label. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 21:32, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
I think it's safe to assume that Sara probably won't be using more than 1065 references, at least initially! Cordless Larry (talk) 21:36, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
I learned something new today. Anyone thinking of including 1000 references in an article, or even several hundred, should read the essay Wikipedia:Citation overkill. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 22:34, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Formerly dead link still marked as dead after being replaced

I just replaced a link here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcial_Maciel#cite_note-12 and the page still displays the words [dead link] after the footnote. However, clicking on the note now brings the reader to a saved copy of the original article, so the link is working again. Can someone tell me whether the [dead link] marker should disappear immediately, or after some delay, or is it there for good?

Also, out of curiosity, why do we need to end non-article posts with four tildes? I'm sure it helps Wikipedia in some way, but how?Yfff (talk) 06:23, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello Yfff, welcome to the Teahouse! Thanks so much for fixing that footnote. The words [dead link] are actually a tag that has been manually placed by another editor. Once you resolve the issue, you have to manually remove the tag. In the edit window, it looks like the words "dead link" in curly brackets: {{dead link}}. I have already removed this for you. With regards to your second question, we end our discussion page messages with four tildes because after you save the edit, the software automatically converts the four tildes into your signature, which lists your username and the timestamp of your comments. This helps other contributors know who made which comments and when. If you have any further questions, please feel free to let us know! Best, Mz7 (talk) 06:48, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

citations for newspaper articles - no exact dates or page numbers available

Hi - I'm writing a brief author biography for Tanis Helliwell, Sandbox article is here (already been rejected once for citations issues): https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Tanis_Helliwell&redirect=no

Full disclosure: I'm being paid by Tanis to do this. I thought it made the most sense to do a basic author bio as she is a published author (first book Random House, the rest self-published). She's been selling her books since 1988, and has a not completely insignificant following, particularly in Germany.

However, I'm working mostly from a bunch of photocopied newspaper articles with no date or page number references on them. Some of the articles don't even note the publication name. There's no doubt that the newspaper and magazine articles exist, but how am I supposed to cite sources like this, for example: http://www.iitransform.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Spiritual-Traveller-lends-WCB-a-hand-News-1990.pdf

aggghhhh! Hoping to get some advice on this. Any help much appreciated.

Melanyhal (talk) 00:23, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

According to Wikimedia's terms of use, you must disclose paid editing in the manner described here: Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 00:26, 14 November 2015 (UTC) Which, it seems, you have. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 00:27, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
What you are supposed to do is do what you are getting paid to do. Go to a library and research. You are the one getting paid. We are volunteers. Your expectations are quite unrealistic. John from Idegon (talk) 03:01, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
I would also suggest that an author that has only had one, non notable book published by a mainline publisher (self published books do nothing to show notability. If you pay someone to publish your book, it can be 300 pages of gibberish. They don't care as long as the check doesn't bounce) is highly doubtful to be notable. John from Idegon (talk) 03:39, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello, Melanyhal, and welcome to the Teahouse. Where there are missing page numbers or dates, or even publication names, for newspaper clippings you have been provided, you may have luck using Google Newspaper search on the titles of the articles in question. (For example, a search string like this.) Unfortunately, that title didn't bring up any results, so for that article at least, John from Idegon is correct: you would need to go to a library with newspaper archives and do some research there. It will be necessary to include the newspaper (or magazine) title and publication date for the sources for which you have clippings, as otherwise other readers won't be able to verify the information cited for themselves; any articles you can't find this information for should not be included in the draft article. Good luck, and feel free to return to the Teahouse with any further questions you have. —GrammarFascist contribstalk 07:31, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Melanyhal, What we are looking for in an article is what published reliable sources independent of the subject have to say about them. Anything by Tanis Helliwell, from tanishelliwell.com, or from iitransform.com is of no value in establishing her notability. That excludes most if not all of the references in your draft. —teb728 t c 07:37, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
If the author or the publisher provided the clippings, you may consider asking them if they remember which newspapers they came from. Even if they are not 100% certain, they may be able to limit the choices. Information from the articles may help establish the dates published (and don't be afraid to look at the back sides of the articles to see if there is a clue or two there). You definitely need to find the full citation info in order to use the clippings here. Good luck. Etamni | ✉ | ✓  09:24, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

How do I delete a talk page?

I was in the process of posting a talk page comment on an article earlier when someone deleted it. So I accidentally created a talk page that belongs to a "dead" article & I have no clue how to remove it. Please help?  :) Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Namrata_thapa JamesG5 (talk) 08:30, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi @JamesG5: I've put that talkpage up for speedy deletion as a G8- "G8: Pages dependent on a non-existent or deleted page" which includes talkpages with no article. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:24, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure what happened here, but Joseph2302 tagged the article with the wrong template, removed it, but didn't add the correct one, so I've done that myself now. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:41, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Draft:Angus McGill Mowat

I declined Draft:Angus McGill Mowat, stating that it did not have a proper lead sentence. The author, User:1tawom, then made a few improvements to it and resubmitted it, and it was declined again, this time due to notability issues (which I didn't address). Will other experienced editors please advise the author on what is needed? Robert McClenon (talk) 16:58, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

I would bet that if this subject has received broad coverage in sources like newspapers and magazines, they are not online, given when he died. Therefore the author is going to have to actually go to the library or somewhere and do some hands-on research, rather than just googling. White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 18:15, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Someone has written a PhD thesis about him, which suggests that there is probably lots of material that can be used to establish notability. The thesis itself could be cited, bearing in mind the caveats outlined at WP:SCHOLARSHIP, but I'm sure that searching through its bibliography would reveal others sources, User:1tawom. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:44, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

I keep getting redacted

I added information abour Sir William Allen MP to your wikipedia entry about him. My first included a National gallery photo of Sir William in his Lieutenant Colonels uniform of the 16th Royal Irish Rifles which he commanded during the 1st war and which I assumed would be enough to prove his military career which was totally absent from the current entry. There wasnt much put online in 1914!

This was redacted. I now have his actual death notice as published by the Times Newspaper London Surely that is proof enough if the National Gallery photo (Which I was prepared to make a donation to the museum for its non profit licence) is not. What information will your site accept because it is annoying and frustrating as this happens a lot?? The article is William Allen (Irish_politician) Ulsterscot1690 (talk) 23:51, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello Ulsterscot1690, and welcome to the Teahouse. In this edit Bgwhite removed the attempt to include the image with the note "Don't do external files, it doesn't work. No refs." This means that you can't simply display an image hosted elsewhere on Wikipedia, a copy of the image must first be uploaded, either to Wikipedia itself, or to Wikimedia Commons. See the File Upload Wizard. Note that the image must be either be out of copyright (in the public domain), or released by the copyright holder under a free license which allows anyone in the world to reuse, repost, or modify it for any purpose, including commercial use, or acceptable under the rather narrow limits Wikipedia applies for fair use, see WP:NFCC.
Generally images aren't sufficient citable sources for facts, you need to cite one or more reliable sources to support the statements you are adding to the article. Online forums are not generally considered reliable sources, nor does wiki8pedia have "Attached Files", but obituary notices in The Times (at least if this means the London Times or the New York Times or another major paper with a good rep) are reliable sources. Please specify the date and page number if possible. DES (talk) 00:17, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
See Referencing for Beginners for more info on citing sources inline. DES (talk) 00:18, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

side text boxes

I am just wondering how to add a side text box to a wikipedia page, i want to add a picture and birth and death and also other important information. thanks! ARuddock (talk) 19:37, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello, ARuddock, and welcome to the Teahouse. What you are referring to as a side text box is officially called an infobox. You'll find guidance on using them at Help:Infobox. The specific infobox to add depends on the topic of the article concerned, but there is a list of infoboxes for people at Wikipedia:List of infoboxes#Person. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:08, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks i added my info box. now how do i add a picture to it? Cordless Larry

ARuddock (talk) 20:30, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

So we're talking about Joel Stone, ARuddock. You'll see that the infobox you've used has the field image=. You need to put the name of an image that has been uploaded to Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons in that field. It's probably best to upload the image to the Commons. There are instructions on doing that at Commons:First steps/Uploading files. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:46, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! how do i get rid of the message "This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (November 2015)"? Cordless Larry ARuddock (talk) 20:53, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I added that template, ARuddock. It can be manually removed, but only when the problem has been addressed. You need to make sure that a source is provided for everything in the article. It will take some time to add the references, but I presume that you have the sources to hand for all of the material that you have added? The mechanics of adding the references is explained at Help:Referencing for beginners. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:01, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
PS: I note that you marked File:Joelstone.jpg as being your own work. Looking at the image, I rather doubt that. You need to acknowledge the source, and it has to be available under a Wikimedia-compatible licence. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:04, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I added all the references I have at the bottom of the page under external links, but i should put them under references and that will fix it? Cordless Larry ARuddock (talk) 21:06, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Not really, no, ARuddock. It's not enough to list the references at the end of the article. You need to be more specific than that, by citing sources throughout the text, using what are called inline citations (footnotes to you and me). Cordless Larry (talk) 21:13, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
I've got you started, ARuddock. See this edit for how it's done. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:43, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
I think I have fixed the references, is it possible to have the template removed? Cordless Larry ARuddock (talk) 17:40, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
You've done a good job with a few references, ARuddock, but there is still quite a lot of material in the article that is not supported by citations. I think it's best to leave the template there until that is resolved. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:46, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
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