Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of unusual deaths

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List of unusual deaths[edit]

This page has grown amazingly since it was originally named "List of people who died with tortoises on their heads". It's useful and has a fairly clear direction. It's quite comprehensive and accurate, being that most entries are linked to the subject articles. The format is stable and nicely-constructed. It's even been linked from other websites/blogs ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5], and more). I think this is an excellent example of something that deserves to be featured. -- Netoholic @ 18:53, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. Lacks sources. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 19:44, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I believe the list is well-sourced since it makes extensive use of links to our own articles, and those that don't have existing articles provide external reference links. Let me phrase it like this - are there any entries which are not verifiable? -- Netoholic @ 21:15, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • It is poor practice for Wikipedia articles to reference each other. If the fact is referenced in the subjects article, it will do no harm to add the source to this list as well. My objection stands. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 23:22, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • Can you make me small and pointy please point me to a guideline which confirms that this is "poor practice"? This subject area is not one like List of elements by name, where sources routinely treat the list's components together. -- Netoholic @ 23:29, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Wikipedia:Cite sources#When to cite sources. Nicely bolded. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 23:55, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • Indeed, but this is not an article, it is a list. That's why WP:FL is different from WP:FA. Wikipedia:What is a featured list? says to cite references where appropriate. This page does not lend itself to such references, since the references section would ultimately be longer than the list itself, due to the variety of subjects. -- Netoholic @ 18:34, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • At the end of the day I don't see how having the word "list" on an article's name magically exempts such article from the proper use of references. WP:FA and WP:FL differ only on the way and extent the information is presented, that's why they are separate processes, but otherwise they have equal footing as content in the article namespace. Moreover, providing references is not a flexible requirement as it is properly stated in Wikipedia:What is a featured list?. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ 19:50, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Exactly how "unusual" is the death of William McKinley "25th president of the United States ... assassinated while attending the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo, New York."? Or Harold Davidson "mauled by a lion"? Or indeed the various people who have heart attacks, etc, while doing something? Is death through assassination, or being attacked by a wild animal, or heart attack, all that unusual? -- ALoan (Talk) 19:56, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • The intro paragraph covers McKinley in that it also covers less unusual deaths of very famous people. The gun hidden in a cast makes it different from, say, Lincoln's assassination. Totally willing to take this back to the talk page. As for the heart attacks, the "unusual death" factor comes not from the cause but from the circumstance. For other reasons, I've removed Harold Davidson, as it seems he didn't die from the mauling itself. -- Netoholic @ 21:27, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object. There's nothing unusual about most of these deaths. --Carnildo 21:54, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • The objection is unhelpful - please give specifics so we can address them (per Wikipedia:Featured list candidates#Supporting and objecting). -- Netoholic @ 22:25, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "Eight Deer Jaguar Claw, Mixtec ruler, served as a human sacrifice." - No source, and it's my understanding that it was not uncommon for Central American rulers to become human sacrifices
If his own people sacrificed him I think this would be very unusual. If he was a king captured as a POW by others it's far less so.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "Pope John XXI was killed in the collapse of his scientific laboratory." - The article says it was the collapse of his bedroom roof, and in any case, it's not unusual for people to die when badly-built structures collapse.
      2. "Matthias Corvinus, the most successful king of Hungary, died after eating poisoned figs." - No source.
      3. "King Louis II of Hungary drowned in a stream under the weight of his own plate armour while fleeing the Ottomans after the lost battle of Mohács." - No source, and this is a common enough battle death.
      4. "Pope Clement VII died after eating the death cap mushroom." - No indication if this was an accident (common) or an assassination (less common).
      5. "Pedro de Valdivia, a dreaded conquistador, was captured by Native Americans and executed by pouring molten gold down his throat to satisfy his thirst for treasures." - No source: the article says he was beaten to death then dismembered, a fairly common death.
      6. "João Rodrigues Cabrilho, Portuguese explorer sailing for Spain (discoverer of California), died of gangrene in a broken leg." - Prior to the development of modern medicine, this was a very common cause of death.
Agree.
      1. "King Henry II of France was killed during a stunt knight's jousting match, when his helmet's soft golden grille gave way to a broken lancetip which hit him right through the eye." - Deaths from jousting accidents are hardly uncommon.
Umm really? Although it wasn't uncommon for jousters to die in jousting accidents I'm not sure jousting was something many did.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "Henry Purcell, composer died of a chill after returning late from the theatre one night and finding that his wife had locked him out. It is also possible that he died of chocolate poisoning" - No source on the chocolate poisoning, and dying from cold is hardly unusual.
      2. "James Otis, American patriot, struck and killed by lightning." - Nothing unusual there: lightning kills about 500-700 people a year.
In the world it's said to be 1171[6] a year. However in a year something like 57 million people die. Although things like getting crushed by reptiles is far rarer, lightning deaths are unusual.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "William Bullock (inventor), accidentally killed by his own invention, the web rotary press." - No source, and gangrene from an industrial accident was responsible for several hundred thousand deaths a year at the time.
It's that he was killed by his own invention. It's a semi-famous story if it can be confirmed.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "Charles-Valentin Alkan, composer and pianist, died when a bookcase collapsed on him when he was reaching for a copy of the Talmud from the top shelf." - Nothing unusual about that.
It's not as usual as you think. I don't even think he's Jewish which if correct makes dying while reaching for the Talmud more unusual.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "1898: Austrian empress Elisabeth (affectionately known as Sissi) was assassinated with a nailfile while boarding a ship." - Assassination almost qualifies as "natural causes" for royalty.
The unusualness is the method of assassination.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "William McKinley, 25th president of the United States, was assassinated while attending the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo, New York." - See above.-Agree this one isn't unusual.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      2. "Jack Daniel, founder of the famous Tennessee whiskey distillery, died of blood poisoning due to a toe injury he received after kicking his safe in anger when he could not remember its combination code." - Prior to the discovery of antibiotics, infection was a very common cause of death.
It's not about infection, but how he got it. If he got an infection by juggling razor blades while riding the back of an elephant it also wouldn't be "infection, how normal."--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "François Faber, Luxembourgean Tour de France winner, died in a trench on the western front of World War I. He received a telegram saying his wife had given birth to a daughter. He cheered, giving away his position, and was shot by a German sniper." - No source; people were killed by the thousand by snipers during WWI.
      2. "Saki (the pseudonym of H. H. Munro), English satirist, novelist and wit, was killed in France, near Beaumont-Hamel during World War One by a sniper's bullet, having reportedly cried "Put that damned cigarette out!" to a fellow officer in his trench (lest the smoke revealed their whereabouts), thus alerting the enemy to his presence." - See above.
Agree on these.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "Young princesses of the Romanov tsar dynasty had to be slaughtered with bayonets, after their communist captors' bullets bounced off their garments, stuffed full of hidden family gems." - No source.
      2. "Barcelona's star architect Antoni Gaudi was run over by a tram." - Common enough cause of death.
Agree more or less.
      1. "Leon Trotsky, the Soviet revolutionary leader in exile, was assassinated with an ice axe in his Mexico home." - Assassination, again. Pretty common.
The tool of assassination is unusual, but this is borderline.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "Lady be Good, a USAAF B-24 bomber lost its way and crash landed in the Libyan Desert." - Nothing unusual there, unless they were supposed to be bombing Tokyo or somesuch.
      2. "Austrian author Ödön von Horvath was killed by a falling branch during a thunderstorm in Paris." - Not as common as lightning strikes, but still not unusual.
Considering lightening isn't all that common this could make this more uncommon. However I think death by falling debris during a storm is more common than lightening deaths. So agree, but for different reasons.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "Movie legend Clark Gable died of long term heart disease hours before his son was born." - Not unusual: heart disease kills millions each year.
Agree--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "John Fare, Canadian artist, decapitated by a robot during an art performance" - No source.
Agree, Now I'll skip to the end.--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      1. "Péter Vályi, finance minister of Hungary fell into a blast furnace on a visit to a steelworks factory at Miskolc." - No source.
      2. "Tom Pryce, a Formula One driver, and a 19-year-old track marshal both died at the 1977 South African Grand Prix after the marshal ran across the track beyond a blind brow to attend to another car and was struck by Pryce's car. Pryce was hit in the face by the marshal's fire extinguisher and was killed instantly." - Nothing unusual about auto-racing deaths.
      3. "Jessica Savitch, NBC television news anchor, drowned after the car she was riding in fell into a canal, flipped over, and sank in mud, sealing the doors shut." - Less common than dying from an impact car accident, but not unusual.
      4. "Richard Versalle suffered a heart attack onstage at the New York Metropolitan Opera after delivering the line "Too bad you can only live so long" during a performance of The Makropulos Case." - No source.
      5. "Orchestral conductor Giuseppe Sinopoli collapsed at the podium of a heart attack while conducting an emotionally charged scene in Aida." - No source.
      --Carnildo 00:21, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't object as much, but actually I do object. I don't think it's featured list material as too much is unsourced or even unverifiable. Therefore Oppose."--T. Anthony 13:23, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- This list can never be complete as 1. there are no cutt-offs to what can be termed as "unusal" 2. Even of #1 is fulfilled, can you vouch for *all* such "unusal" cases throughout the world? =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:01, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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