Wikipedia:Featured article review/Venus/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by DrKay via FACBot (talk) 8:19, 26 June 2016 (UTC) [1].

Venus[edit]

Notified: Saros136, Fotaun, JorisvS, Ckatz, Kheider, Serendipodous, WikiProject Solar System, WikiProject Astronomical objects, WikiProject Astronomy

The article has undergone major change since the latest FAR in 2008 (e.g. [2]). It no longer looks like the same article. There are a few issues that pop out to me - there is an over-use of images and not always in the correct context (one example "Pioneer Venus Multiprobe"). Some sections are very brief and refer to secondary articles without a summary that reads well and fits in well on the Venus page itself. The intro is a little brief and could be better written.Anon 09:28, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've placed this review on hold at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Coordination for the moment because I was unable to locate the first phase of the review ("Raise issues at article Talk"). DrKay (talk) 11:23, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've updated the talk page Anon 21:55, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Graeme Bartlett
  • Some of the images have no alt= text. And some images have alt text the same as the caption. Being the same is not useful. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:58, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved. Serendipodous 08:37, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • dead link for " Numbers generated by Solex"
  • Fixed. This just served to explain the source for the prior ref, so I combined them and gave an archive link. A2soup (talk) 02:46, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • the "Compare the Planets" references neither of the facts linked to it.
  • Fixed by finding old version of that ref with relevant link (now dead) & providing archive link. A2soup (talk) 11:46, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref "A. Boyle – Venus transit: A last-minute guide – MSNBC" missing information and is a dead link.
  • ref "See Venus in Broad Daylight!" no retrieval date (it is still there though)
  • ref "The Pentagram of Venus" is a blog, and is missing info, cannot tell if this is reliable or not.
Fixed. The guy has a wiki page, so he's probably reliable. Serendipodous 19:10, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref Fegley, B (2003). Venus (Treatise on Geochemistry ed.). has "ed.", no page number or ISBN. added
  • ref "title". Retrieved 4 January 2015. is missing detail. added
  • ref "РАН: запуск "Венеры-Д" состоится не ранее 2024 года" should have an English translation of the title. (perhaps an English language source is available)
  • ref "Atmospheric Flight on Venus" is a dead link for me and missing info
  • refs 166-175 look to be web references and miss retrieval dates and other information.
  • ref "The Magellan Venus Explorer's Guide" appears thrice, but the first time has no page number, and the second time has even less info. (there is no ISBN on the book so its absence is a non-issue) found page numbers in the book, linked online version, and made consistent.
  • This article should link to Venus in fiction possibly with a short sentence on the topic. Look at Observations and explorations of Venus#Impact on literature which belongs more here, than in that article.
    • I've added a prototype. It may need some holes filled. Serendipodous 20:31, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Is it good enough? Please let me know before I spend a day at a library. Serendipodous 10:33, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think the summary is OK. However we should not be using primary references for the first three documents, secondary references that mention the facts would be more appropriate. Whenever the popular culture section develops in other articles, material only referenced to the work it is in gets the chop, and only if others comment on it, is the mention worth having in Wikipedia. I will add these as an issue down below, so that this one can be resolved. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:22, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nowhere does Venus tell us that it appears as a white star. The colour is a basic fact that should be mentioned.
  • Added this fact (with ref) to first sentence of observation section. A2soup (talk) 03:36, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It apparently isn't any more. Serendipodous 10:04, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Citation needed for "Venus's opaque clouds prevent observing the Sun from the planet's surface"
added. Serendipodous 10:35, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
removed. Serendipodous 08:53, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • ISBN format dashes or not?
fixed. Serendipodous 13:11, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
More fixes; I wrote an in-browser ISBN tool a while back that can properly hyphenate ISBNs, and I've verified most of the ones currently in the article. {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 22:52, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Calculate/show" should this read "Calculate and show"? The page is called Apparent Disk of Solar System Object.
Fixed. Serendipodous 13:05, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • In one place we say Cassini–Huygens and another Cassini.
  • Since we use British English, should "center" be replaced by "centre" where it is not a proper noun, or title?
  • " Colonization -> Colonisation
  • " color -> colour (three times)
  • "co-orbitals" sounds a bit jargon-like.
fixed. Serendipodous 15:52, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • fixed Dawsow name error.
  • " destabilize -> destabilise
  • Encyclopædia or Encyclopedia? two different things used for Encyclopædia Britanica. "æ" look right here.
  • Britannica online encyclopedia needs capitalisation anyway - and is not the name the site uses also
  • fly-by or flyby? (also fly-bys or flybys)
  • Hitran or HITRAN?

Above spelling issues resolved. Serendipodous 10:36, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • The "Lightnings on Venus studied on the basis of Venera 9 and 10 data" reference is actually in Russian. Did anyone actually locate a copy and read it? In any case the journal title ( Kosmicheskie Issledovaniia) and article title would be in Russian, so see if we can get original. Google suggests " Космические Исследования" An English translation is also published with bibcode=1980CosRe..18..325K
  • I found and read a translation. It looks like that journal was regularly translated and republished in America as Cosmic Research. I changed to ref to the translation. A2soup (talk) 19:27, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should "false colour image" be "false-colour image"? (with hyphen in adjective)
fixed. Serendipodous 13:06, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Three primary references used in the "In fiction" section should be secondary sources instead. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:22, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
secondary sources added. Serendipodous 11:48, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • V.A. Krasnopolskii or V. A. Krasnopolsky — likely the same author with two transliterations.
Possibly but I don't see how we'd prove it. Serendipodous 13:05, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Someone changed it anyway. 23:03, 16 January 2016 (UTC)Serendipodous
  • MESENGER or MESSENGER ?
  • midday seems preferable to mid-day
  • Should "Planet-C" be "PLANET-C"?
Spelling issues resolved. Serendipodous 13:08, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in false-colour" should not have a hyphen as colour is now the noun, not part of adjective. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:53, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Serendipodous 21:44, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Pentagram of Venus" is a proper title, and so can't be changed. Serendipodous 12:40, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • 630 nm should have a non-breaking space, and perhaps "nm" should be spelled out as nanometre
  • references should not be after a space, eg at "eccentricity = 0.006772" "asc_node = 76.680°" "deep interior than Earth's."
Other issues above resolved. Serendipodous 12:40, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Changed. Serendipodous 08:50, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:29, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dunkleosteus77
  • The lead is a bit too short for an article of this side. Add a paragraph on space-exploration and/or colonization
added. Serendipodous 18:50, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The slow, retrograde rotation is notable and deserves a mention in the lead. Praemonitus (talk) 23:13, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Added. 09:36, 19 February 2016 (UTC)Serendipodous
  • The Planned and proposed missions section is basically a list without bullet-points
revised. Serendipodous 23:53, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • As per WP:ISBN, change all ISBN numbers to ISBN-13. Use this site to convert ISBN-10 to ISBN-13
revised. Serendipodous 09:36, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I believe this article now meets FA Criteria   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  23:23, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Nergaal

@Sir Anon, Graeme Bartlett, and Dunkleosteus77: Have your concerns been addressed here? @Serendipodous: any response to Nergaal's question? Nikkimaria (talk) 17:51, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are Venus-crosser asteroids; is that what he's asking? Serendipodous 17:58, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking something that is more narrowly within Venus' orbit. Not sure if I missed it before, but the mention of the trojans and quasi-satellite is sufficient. Nergaal (talk) 20:51, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My main outstanding issue is saying the clouds contain sulfur dioxide, which is not what the sources say. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:54, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Which I cannot resolve, because I cannot read the sources. Serendipodous 21:56, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Google should be able to give you a loose translation if the source is in another language. Right-click the page and there should be an option to translate it.   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There have got to be other, English sources that discuss Venus's clouds. We shouldn't tear our hair out over this particular source. I'll try to look into this in the coming week. A2soup (talk) 04:42, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@A2soup: Any luck? Nikkimaria (talk) 21:39, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately just exams for the time being haha. A2soup (talk) 22:49, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, so here are relevant passages from the "Venus: Atmosphere" chapter of the Encyclopedia of the Solar System, 3rd ed., edited by Tilman, Breuer, and Johnson (full chapter here if others have access):

"The clouds are approximately bounded by the evaporation temperature of H2SO4 below and the top of the convectively mixed troposphere above. Their composition is primarily liquid droplets of concentrated sulfuric acid, with an additional ultraviolet (UV) absorber in the upper layers and large, possibly solid, particles near the base level, both of unknown composition."

"Sulfur Dioxide

The high sulfur content of the atmosphere, including the H2SO4 clouds, is a powerful indicator of recent volcanic activity, since gases like sulfur dioxide have a short lifetime in the atmosphere before they are removed by interaction with the surface. The measured abundance of SO2 in the deep atmosphere is about 180ppm, which is more than 100 times too high to be at equilibrium with the surface. The time constant for the decline of the sulfur abundance in the atmosphere if the source were removed is a few million years, indicating that the atmospheric sulfur must be of recent origin. Pioneer Venus UV spectra showed a decline by more than a factor of 10 in sulfur dioxide abundance at the cloud tops over a 5-year period, and more recently, Venus Express has also detected very large, long- and short-term variations in SO2 at all altitudes from the clouds to the thermosphere.

The high level of SO2 in the atmosphere is the source for the concentrated sulfuric acid that is the dominant component of the clouds (see Section 4.4 below). Although less well understood, it is probably the nonuniform distribution of SO2 and the formation of trace amounts of elemental sulfur and possibly other sulfur compounds that gives rise to the UV markings in the clouds that the visible face of Venus. Apart from forming the highly reflective clouds that tend to cool the planet, sulfur dioxide is a greenhouse gas contributing to the warming of the surface (Section 6)."

"Cloud Chemistry

The high abundance of sulfur dioxide in the atmosphere leads to the formation of the concentrated sulfuric acid cloud layers via a chemical system involving the photolytic destruction of carbon dioxide by solar UV radiation, summarized by

CO2→CO+O

followed by reactions equivalent to

SO2+H2O+O=H2SO4.

This sequence forms the acid near the visible cloud tops, where it combines with other H2O molecules to produce the hydrated acid droplets that are the main constituent of the clouds. The degree of hydration varies between perhaps 10% and 25%, with 20% (4H2SO4.H2O) typical.

A cloud particle of the observed mean radius (∼1μm) has a sedimentation velocity of 7.5m/day at 60km; this velocity varies as the square of the size. Although small, these velocities, aided by coagulation, eventually carry the particles out of the cloud to lower altitudes and higher temperatures, where they will evaporate and, at still lower heights, decompose back into water and sulfur dioxide. Atmospheric mixing carries these gases back upward where they can again contribute to the formation of H2SO4. An important intermediate is the reactive free radical SO, and probably some elemental sulfur is produced. UV spectra (pertaining to the region above the clouds) reveal the presence of small amounts of SO2 shown in Table 14.1, but much less than the amounts that have been measured below the clouds.

Sulfuric acid is perfectly colorless in the blue and near-UV regions, and the yellow coloration that provides the contrasts of Figure 14.1 must be caused by something else. The most likely thing is elemental sulfur, but yellow compounds are abundant in nature, and the identification remains tentative. The photochemical models do predict production of some sulfur, but it is a minor by-product, and the amount produced is uncertain. It is also unclear what constitutes the large Mode 3 particles in the lower cloud. Optical data suggests solid, irregular particles coated with sulfuric acid; the most likely candidate for the solid material is volcanic ash."

I'm too busy with exams to process this all into the article right now, but I think it has the information we need to resolve the issue. I'll be back in a couple weeks to do it if no one has by then. Hope this helps! A2soup (talk) 23:02, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have amended the cloud text, so it would be good if someone can check it out. I have used the newer review article also: "Chemical composition of Venus atmosphere and clouds: Some unsolved problems". Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:29, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep – There are a few short one-sentence paragraphs sprinkled throughout the article, which look a bit stubby in comparison to the rest of the article. My recommendation is to merge them into each other, or into longer paragraphs if possible. However, I don't think this issue is important enough to warrant delisting on its own, and the writing in the portion of the article I read seemed fine to me (granted, I'm not an expert on the subject). Giants2008 (Talk) 15:09, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The atmospheric composition diagram is tagged for clarification. DrKay (talk) 15:54, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Removed. Serendipodous 16:33, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I read the entire article body and did not find any issues until hitting the "In culture" section at the bottom. The first paragraph is not sourced, but I also think that it is written in a different idiom to the rest of the article and can very largely be cut as extraneous. The etymology section is not supported by the two references given in the paragraph: neither makes directly the central claim that it is the only planet with a female name, and that is perhaps why this claim has been hedged about in the paragraph with a number of qualifications and clarifications. I see no problems in the other two sections. Consequently, I have attempted to re-draft this section, cutting the uncited material.
Gallery sections are deprecated and I couldn't see what points the files were trying to make; images should be integrated with the text. Consequently, I have also cut the gallery section at the bottom. DrKay (talk) 20:32, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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