Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Say Hello to My Little Friend/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 15:44, 19 August 2012 [1].

Say Hello to My Little Friend[edit]

Say Hello to My Little Friend (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): TBrandley 00:50, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I present "Say Hello to My Little Friend", an Awake episode. This episode is regarded by many as one of the best entries the series ever produced by critics. It is already at GA. I have added images to the article. I feel that it truly is comprehensive: the production section is filled with information, and the page has sections for conception, themes, broadcast numbers, critical reception, and even pre-broadcast information :) As tagged in my previous FAC, reviews from the TV Fanatic website have had their notability questioned, but it was decided that it could be used. Thanks, and I hope you enjoy reading through this article. Its appreciated. Feel free to be honest below. TBrandley 00:50, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - Per WP:LEDE, this article should have a shorter lede. Also, I don't think its ready for sub-sections yet (none of those sub-sections look really developed to me) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:33, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Done
      • Just noting that this same user has left more comments below. Cheers.
        • This user, Crisco, has now supported below after more additional comments. Yeah. :) TBrandley 02:24, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done.

  • Link to the discussion about TV Fanatic you refer to in the nom statement, please?
    • It is here. Also, TV Fanatic operates with a dedicated editorial staff, and is owned and operated by Mediavine Inc. (SheKnows Entertainment), a publishing company, while SheKnows Entertainment is a high-quality source itself, meaning TV Fanatic would also be. Based on its website, I'm pretty sure its okay to use as a high-quality source.
  • FN4: NBC isn't a work
    • Done
  • Don't repeat cited sources in External links.
    • Done

Nikkimaria (talk) 22:31, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Sorry for the brief set but my time is quite limited. I gave it a quick read through and these issues were noted at first glance.

  • "Later, Britten meets with Emma's father Joaquin (Carlos Lacamara) at a coffee shop about the new baby..." There sounds as if there is a word or two missing at the end. "Later, Britten meets with Emma's father Joaquin (Carlos Lacamara) at a coffee shop to discuss the new baby" maybe?
    • Done
  • "The entry was directed by Laura Innes, who guest stars in the recurring role of Captain Tricia Harper on the series." On the series or in the the series.? I would suggest its "in" if your finishing with her starring role and "on" if you finish with her behind the scenes role.
    • Done
  • "The episode featured a number of cultural references to various media." -Should "types of” be between "various media"?
    • Done
  • "It was Killen's sixth writing credit and Chang's second writing credit for the series" - two "writing credits" sound repetitive. You could say "It was Killen's sixth writing credit and Chang's second for the series" or something similar.
    • Done

I think that's it for now but I will give it another read through later. An informative little article about a series I have never watched. As a result of this read through, I may go out and buy it now as it sounds quite good. -- CassiantoTalk 04:33, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for the review! I have fixed all of the issues. Sorry, but you cannot buy the series; it hasn't been released on DVD as of right now. If you'd like to watch, you can on Hulu.com Plus. I also appreciate your interests. TBrandley 05:00, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - all above points have been fixed and, IMO, is therefore worthy of featured article status. -- CassiantoTalk 07:13, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

'Comments:

  • ""Say Hello to My Little Friend" is the eleventh episode of the American television police procedural fantasy drama Awake" - Wow. That's a mouthfull, anyway of shortening?
    • Not done. There is no way of shortening.
  • Im not sure the ratings and reception should be so far up in the Lead, normally at the bottom.
  • The Lead is to big for an article this size.
    • Not done. Its three paragraphs, see WP:LEDE
  • Is the image needed? (Infobox)
    • Done. I have removed; see below.
  • Havent checked through Plot, but merge last two paragraphs.
    • Done
  • In Production subsections not needed, merge all.
    • Done
  • After the image put (pictured).
    • Not done. That's the only person mentioned. I have been told to remove before, and believe it should stay as it is.
  • The alt text needs changing, just put "Laura Innes" or "Photograph".
  • The section for Cancellation isnt focussed on this episode, just a minor comment is needed.
    • Done

- Not a full check through, just major points. — M.Mario (T/C) 15:38, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. I have fixed most of the issues. Others are noted above. Thanks again! TBrandley 17:57, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. While there's a lot of good stuff going on with the article thus far, it's not yet at featured quality.
    • As a consequence of the reality switching, the plot section is a bit hard to follow. The lead contains important plot information that isn't contained or referenced in the synopsis--this is problematic in and of itself, but a lot more time should be spent putting in signposts so the readers know which reality is which during the summary.
      • Done. I have explained in the "Plot" section
    • There's a tendency in the production section to rely on pulled quotes, but just using them leads to not so much in the way of useful content. For instance, the article says this:
He and his writing team "played" with the hallucinations featured in the entry.[5] Along with "That's Not My Penguin", "Two Birds" and "Turtles All the Way Down", Killen claimed that the installment was something that he wanted to "pursue with the show going forward".
This really isn't clear. What does "played" mean? Did they change the plot structure, or directing style to highlight the hallucinations? What does it mean that he wanted to pursue this installment? The source provides this:
So to me episodes like the penguin episode ("That's Not My Penguin") and the episode where he hallucinated the character from the other world ("Say Hello To My Little Friend"), and even the last two episodes, those were closer to the model that we would have tried to pursue with the show going forward. [...]
The source makes it much clearer that only having one criminal case in an episode and focusing more on emotional moments and the characters was what he wanted to pursue in later episodes. You should only quote people when it makes things clearer, not more opaque.
Done; and removed for some of those.
    • Just citing the episode itself for the cultural references (" This installment contains footage from Cheaper by the Dozen, a 1950 film, which is a cultural reference.[3] Also, a line in the episode, was spoken by Tony Montana (Al Pacino) in the 1983 movie Scarface while shooting a M16.") feels like original research.
      • Done. I have removed it; there are no web references that could be found other than episode.
    • I don't think there's enough justification per WP:NFCC to include File:Awake S01E11.jpg--reviewers commented on the situation, but there's no detail in the frame that aids reader comprehension significantly.
      • Done. I have removed it; I just like the picture. Lol :)

Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 20:25, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Have fixed all of those. Thanks for your FA review. Hope you can support now, or more comments. Thanks again! TBrandley 20:43, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've reread the article. Further comments:

  • There seems to be a paucity of development/production information. When/where was it shot? Were there any special effects, and if so who did them, et al.
    • Update. I have found a ton of production information, and added it to the article. So, done. Hope its good!
  • Did the episode show anywhere else in the world (UK markets, etc) or was its NBC premiere its only proper airing?
    • Done. It was actually already there, but to match with "Squeeze", I have moved it above. Also, it aired in Canada on Global, but there is no WP:RS for it. Anyway, thanks.

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 15:44, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All concerns all now fixed! More "Production" has been properly added. TBrandley 16:14, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image review from TRLIJC19
    • File:Laura Innes 2010.jpg is properly licensed and sourced from commons, and the caption is appropriate.
      • Cool. :)
    • File:Jason Isaacs by Gage Skidmore.jpg has an appropriate license and source from Commons, but I think the layout and caption needs adjusting. Can you put the image on the left, because the other one is on the right. Also; in the caption: "They felt his performance deserved an Emmy Award." is repetitive of the previous line. Merge into one sentence: "Critics felt that Jason Isaacs' performance deserved an Emmy Award."
      • Done
  • MOS review from TRLIJC19
    • Lead
      • Although the MOS specifies to use last name after first mention; this article is different because they are all "Britten". Therefore, all the referrals to Michael as Britten should be changed to Michael.
        • Done
    • Plot
      • The Britten issue is existent in this section too.
        • Done
    • Themes
      • Unlink The Little Guy; it's linked above.
        • Done
      • Britten issues is existent here too.
        • Done
If all the above issues are addressed, I'll be willing to support on MOS compliance, images, and sourcing. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 05:21, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for agreeing to do this review! I have addressed all of these issues, and hope that you can support now. :0 TBrandley 05:32, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on all. on technical MOS compliance, citation layout, and images. MOS support does not mean I support on prose; I am supporting on the article's compliance with MOS (linking, quoting, word styling, etc.). TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 05:41, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 21:33, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed comments from Crisco 1492 moved to talk

  • After the few of the above issues are solved, I'll support. --Khanassassin ☪ 19:07, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, all of his comments have been addressed, and moved to this talk page. So, I now hope you can support/oppose also. Ha. Thanks, TBrandley 02:26, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks

  • Article: It was Killen's sixth credit and Chang's second writing acknowledgment for the show.[3]
  • Source: Reference 3 is not a source.
    • Done. I have replaced with episode guide from Radio Times
  • Article: That scene was shot three or four times with a different performance by Isaacs each time; the actor did not know which take Innes would use.[4]
  • Source: I can't see where this is mentioned
    • It says it in the sentence starting "I sat on the floor..." — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:43, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article: "Say Hello to My Little Friend" continued and introduced key thematic elements to the series that were originally introduced in "The Little Guy". Key themes in this installment included when Michael was unable to see Rex and realized that Hawkins was trying to kill him in the car crash.[9]
  • Source: Not that it was a huge revelation, mind you, since it was told to us back in "The Little Guy" that Carl had used a little guy as a driver when he tried to have Britten killed. I can't verify the second sentence.
    • "Hawkins being the one who ran Britten's family off the road.", just under the image, may be what you're looking for. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:48, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article:It was described as a "show about grief" when it first started airing and that the "cause of the car accident didn't really matter" at that time.[11]
  • Source: When Awake started, it was a show about grief...The cause of the car accident didn’t really matter.
  • Article: Isaacs found "Say Hello to My Little Friend" the "most difficult [episode] to shoot" as one of the character's realities was fabricated and had to disappear by the end.[4]
  • Source: That whole episode was the most difficult to shoot for me, because one of the worlds had to disappear.
  • Article: "Say Hello to My Little Friend" marked the first appearance of Hawkins, a detective who was described as a titular "little guy",[8]
  • Source: When Alias alum Kevin Weisman makes his debut on NBC’s Awake this Thursday...My long-standing theory: Weisman’s character is “the little guy” mentioned by the hobo back in Episode 2
  • Article: Despite the series' cancellation, NBC still decided to air the remaining two episodes in the show's original time slot.[2]
  • Source: I can't see this information in the source
    • Last paragraph has everything but "in the show's original time slow". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:48, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • I was specifically searching for the information on the original time slot. Graham Colm (talk) 10:28, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Okay. I have removed "in the show's original time slot", since, no source, for it. So, its done. TBrandley 15:03, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article: The episode's initial broadcast was viewed by approximately 2.51 million viewers.[16]
  • Source: NBC,Awake...2.510
There are some issues (in bold) requiring clarification or explanation. Graham Colm (talk) 09:37, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have fixed all of your spot-checks concerns. Thanks for the spot-check! TBrandley 15:11, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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