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Standardization of Chinese dish names

Thursday, December 21, 2006

Pocked-face Lady's Tofu off the menu

JANE CAI scmp.com

There'll be no more Super Chicken Soup, no more Pocked-face Lady's Tofu and no more Fry the Cow River on the menu when Beijing serves up the Olympics in 2008. The capital is on a mission to standardise the English names of thousands of dishes and drinks served in the city's restaurants.

The effort, aimed at burnishing Beijing's image as an international metropolis, is part of a bilingual-skills campaign in which taxi drivers are being drilled in daily greetings and signs in public venues are being overhauled to make more sense.

"Many restaurants in our city have started providing foreign-language menus in recent years. However, due to geographical and cultural differences, the translation is not well regulated and grammatical mistakes make the names confusing for foreign clients," the municipal government said on its website.

During the next two weeks, the city is soliciting public feedback on the translations of more than 1,000 dishes and drinks, an epic effort being carried out by a group of domestic and overseas language and culture experts. The final version will be released before the end of next year for use in hotels and restaurants registered with the Beijing Tourism Administration.

Eric Abrahamsen, an American translator working in Beijing, said it was necessary to standardise dish names. "The quality of English translation is not so good. They are pretty random ... However, I question how they will force restaurants to change menus," he said.

Zhang Hui , dean of the Beijing International Studies University's tourism administration department, said Beijing needed the standardisation to avoid being seen as a joke.

"I've come across many literally translated, long, confusing or funny dish names. They are not in line with the image Beijing is pursuing," he said.

A waitress at a restaurant in Beijing's Houhai area said the translation of its menu was done by an advertising company. "Sometimes foreign people laugh while they are ordering. No one knows why. Fortunately, we have pictures of all the dishes on the menu. So it's not a big problem for us." Badagnani 05:15, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Buddha's delight

Hi, see if you can help fix things up at Buddha's delight. I'm trying to list the ingredients but there are some questions due to the variations in this dish. Badagnani 17:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I wasn't sure what was meant in some of the articles by "bamboo pith" but the photo in the Hawaii article doesn't look like the "zhu sheng" mushroom... "Zhu sheng" really is common in better luohan zhai? If so, that throws off the 18+17=35 numerology I had going, 哇! I was under the impression that that mushroom wasn't well liked in China outside of Yunnan. I find the smell horrible, although I enjoy the musical instrument 笙 it's named for. Can you confirm that bamboo shoot tips (don't know the Chinese for this, but they're the conical ones) are preferred in this dish? Some of the Chinese-language recipes call for them. If you could look through that Guangdong luohan zhai article I have linked and see if I've missed anything, that would be great. I'm a little mystified by this "three mushrooms, six ears" thing, and also the significance of having 10, 18, or 35 ingredients. Badagnani 04:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, you're right about the "jook tseng." You've got to be clever to translate the almost infinite romanizations of Cantonese that one encounters. Did you get to look into that Chinese-language article about luohan zhai in Guangdong? Some interesting stuff in there. Badagnani 05:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I got some of that zhu sheng in dried form, soaked and boiled it, yet there was a stinky, sort of sulfurous/diesel/chemical-like smell that just wouldn't go away. My professor friend in Guilin who is from Harbin says that as a northerner she finds it hard to tolerate this mushroom as well, and said that's true of a lot of northerners. Interesting that it's known and used throughout China as a high status food. Badagnani 05:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Should I substitute bamboo shoot tips for bamboo shoots? The Chinese-language article and some of the recipes, I think, call for 2 or 3 specific kinds of bamboo shoots (including "winter bamboo shoots"). Badagnani 05:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, do you do spectrographic/chemical analysis of aromas? I wonder what compounds cause that one. It's not like any other food I've smelled in my life and seems to be saying to me, "Don't eat me! I am not edible!", even when I'm eating it. But I suffered no ill effects. You're probably right about the pairing with xianggu and soy sauce. I had first done it as a mildly-flavored soup with winter melon, so as not to overpower the delicate flavor of the "mushroom" (stinkhorn, really). I do wonder what bleaching agents are used in processing of the dried zhusheng bricks one sees in the Chinese grocery, as one brand is light yellow while another is bright white. Badagnani 05:54, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hasma?

Is this article describing hasma? Badagnani 23:24, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Pork fu

Hi, there's a need for a pork fu (roufu, or whatever it's called in Mandarin) article. Are you up to the task? I was comparing the song and the fu today in the Chinese grocery store. Badagnani 00:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the variety of frog is the same, but not sure what part of the frog is being utilized for these healthy purposes. As far as pork fu/pork song, I saw equal numbers of containers of both. Shouldn't there be equal rights for the fus and the songs? Badagnani 02:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I added text about fu in the song article, with redirects. Is that satisfactory? Badagnani 00:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Luk mei ingredients

Hi, can you check Chinese websites to see if this ingredient list is right for the luk mei tong sui? It seems that there may be 7 or more things that could be used: "Luk mei (六味, pinyin: liù wèi) (six ingredients: snow fungus, lotus seeds, dried longan, quail eggs, huai shan (wild yam), and fox nuts; daylily bulbs may also be used):. Badagnani 17:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Cellophane noodles

Hi, can you expound more on the Chinese culinary uses of cellophane noodles? I started a section on it. Badagnani 21:50, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

碱水粽

Question: in the 碱水粽 variety of zongzi, what is the 碱水? Has something been treated with salt, baking soda, lye, or some other chemical? Badagnani 22:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Great, thanks! What's a "jian" flavor? The zongzi are quite bland so I'm eating them with some sweet lotus seed/dried longan soup (or "two ingredient" "six ingredient soup"). Badagnani 00:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought the yellow color in noodles comes from eggs. If you know that lye is used to impart a yellow color to some noodles, we should add that in some of the Chinese noodles articles. Badagnani 06:58, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Mung bean sheets

Wide (fettuccine-width) "mung bean sheets" are available at my Chinese grocery store. Is this a type of cellophane noodles? They're not thick and jello-like like cheongpomuk, but thin, wide (about 1 cm or slightly less), and glass-like when uncooked. Badagnani 00:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Zongzi or zong

Can it be explained that zong is an alternate name for zongzi (and explaining why and when each is used)? Badagnani 00:08, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Were the Min Nan terms for the meat version bah-tzang and the vegetarian version tsai-tzang incorrect? Badagnani 01:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I just got a kind of zong (long and roughly cylindrical, not triangular) called 上海豆沙粽. They have red bean paste inside. Is that a different/notable type? Badagnani 01:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Yangmei jiu

Thanks for info! Do you want to add about the wide mung bean sheets or should I? I don't exactly know what they're called in Chinese. Anyway, I don't know if you can get this where you are but I just tried, for the first time, a bottle of 杨梅酒 (yangmei jiu). It comes in a glass bottle, and is labeled "Arbutus drink." It's a light red color, full of whole yangmei fruits, and labeled as having been produced in China by the "Strong America" company. The funny thing is that it tastes very alcoholic (maybe 15-20 percent) but there's no alcohol listed in the ingredients (just sugar, water, and fruit), and "wine" or "liquor" is mentioned nowhere on the label, and it's sold with other fruit juices. The liquor doesn't taste as if it has been fermented; it tastes like a dilute hard liquor like shaojiu or baijiu into which yangmei fruits have been steeped. Do you have, or can you find any additional information about this beverage? Where it's made, whether it is indeed fermented as the label implies or whether it's made by soaking yangmei in pre-existing baijiu, etc.? Thanks, Badagnani 00:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Congee

I just saw a photo of congee with gouqizi and juhua floating in it. Is that a normal thing? If so, I can add that to the various articles. Badagnani 03:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Taishan noodles (台山奇面)

I just got a package of 台山奇面 (Taishan noodles). They're made from wheat flour and are slightly under 1 cm in width, slightly wider than fettuccine noodles. They're made by the humorously named Sun Shun Fuk (新順福) company of Hong Kong, though this product doesn't appear on their website. What category should these go under in Chinese noodles? Are they a traditional noodle in Taishan? Badagnani 06:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Sweet and sour pork

Hi, can you help explain the Chinese name of this dish, Sweet and sour pork? It doesn't make sense to me. Badagnani 00:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Chrysanthemum tea

Hi, I need help with four new varieties of Chrysanthemum tea added (can't always figure out the pinyin, tones, and literal meaning and would like more info on the different varieties). For example, some are white and have no central raised yellow area, while others are yellower in color and have a bright raised yellow area in the middle, surrounded by the petals. Badagnani 12:57, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Moutai's flowery ad copy

Whoever wrote this deserves a medal:

http://www.moutaichina.com/en/products/product.html

Moutai is one of the world’s 3 most famous liquors. It is the originator in yeast sauce liquor in our country. It is the monument of liquor culture that brewers have used magic talent, distilled the cream of broomcorn, picked up the soul of wheat, exploited the nimbus of the sky and earth, and captured irreplaceable microorganisms of special environment for fermentation, mixing and sublimation. Moutai has a long history. As recorded in history, as early as in 135 BC, Moutai Town, the ancient apanage, brewed the medlar sauce wine that Emperor Wudi of the Han Dynasty had high opinion of, and was thus known throughout the world. In 1915, Moutai won the gold prize of Panama Word’s Fair, and became known throughout the world.

After the establishment of our country, Moutai has won international gold prizes for several times. It is sold to over 100 countries and regions. The production technique of Moutai is ancient and unique. It inherits the essence of ancient brewery technique, and shines with the color of modern science and technology. Badagnani 06:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Black bean tofu

Is black bean tofu made with Douchi? If so, the Tofu article doesn't make that clear. Badagnani 22:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I am leaning toward thinking that black bean tofu doesn't have black beans (frijoles negros, the kind that Guatemalans and Brazilians use, which is in a separate genus), but instead black soybeans, the small kind that douchi are made from. So it wouldn't be in the "other legumes" section. Badagnani 04:10, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I want to add a photo of "black bean tofu" but can only find photos of douhua with whole black beans floating in it, like this one. Do you have any more current information on the production of "black bean tofu" or "black bean douhua" or can you get this info at the local Chinese grocery store? Badagnani 06:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Dotorimuk

You've been eating dotorimuk? Did you make it yourself? I made some a couple of months ago too. If you chop it up and make a cold salad out of it, along with carrots and cucumbers, soy sauce, rice vinegar, etc. ("dotorimuk muchim") it's not bad. Badagnani 04:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Black bean paste

This article needs some cleanup. Can you help? Badagnani 11:03, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's like having different articles for spaghetti, linguini, vermicelli, etc. There are pages for each, and an overarching page called pasta. We also have separate pages for memilmuk, dotorimuk, hwangpomuk, etc. If they're closely interlinked I don't see a problem with having separate pages for each of the sweet bean pastes. How many are there? Black bean paste, red bean paste, mung bean paste, lotus seed paste, and black sesame paste? Those are the main ones I see in sweet stuffed baozi in the Chinese grocery store. Badagnani 02:25, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, personally I prefer Soybean paste over Fermented bean paste. They all seem to be made from soybeans except the one that also has broad beans (I think doubanjiang). I made a redirect from Bean paste though of course black bean paste, which is not in the same category, would fall under the "bean paste" heading, so I'd suggest avoiding having the savory pastes under "Bean paste." There could of course be a new overarching article for the sweet bean pastes; in fact, that would be a good, logical thing to have. Badagnani 02:30, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, you're right--lotus seeds and sesame aren't beans. But in reality the taste and use of the pastes in baozi is the same. Are you serious that black turtle beans and navy beans are used for sweet bean pastes? As far as I know these are New World beans and never saw them used in Chinese cuisine (though I just ate in a Malaysian restaurant in Boston and got a coconut milk-based sweet dessert soup--maybe a tong sui?--that contained tapioca, cubed sweet potato and taro, and black-eyed peas). Badagnani 02:34, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

It seems cumbersome (as only doubanjiang includes another bean, and even then it also has soybeans) but if you feel strongly enough about it you could move it. Badagnani 02:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, so black turtle beans are used in China? So, have you determined whether black bean tofu is made from those or from non-salty black soybeans? If not, do you have a way to find out? Badagnani 02:45, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Tapai

You might be interested in editing this page, which I just came across. Badagnani 02:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Miso soup

Miso soup made with just water and miso, I think, is a non-traditional "quick fix" way of doing it, comparable to the way western Thai restaurants take coconut milk and curry paste, mix them together heat, and serve. Real curry, on the other hand, requires careful, prolonged heating to bring the oil out of the coconut milk-curry paste mixture. But since Westerners don't know, it's just easier to mix them together. In the same way, dashi (which takes time and special ingredients to make) is essential to create the layered and even more umami taste of real miso soup. Even if wakame and soft tofu cubes aren't used, miso soup should contain several ingredients from just the dashi alone. Badagnani 03:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Sweet bean paste

I've filled out sweet bean paste from being a redir to red bean paste to being an overarching article describing the various forms. I could think of three. Please add info if I've forgotten anything. I added a mention to lotus seed paste but I think we'll need a sesame paste article too (is there one?). Badagnani 05:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Chinese herb tea

I'm confused by the focus on Guangdong at Chinese herb tea. Perhaps you can help? Badagnani 04:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Chrysanthemum tea again

Hi, I think I've found a few more varieties of chrysanthemum tea that could be added to the article, but my Chinese isn't good enough to evaluate them from the Chinese sources (and, as usual, the English sources aren't helpful). See Talk:Chrysanthemum tea for the new ones. Badagnani 05:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Mijiu

Hi, a new editor has just made an article for mijiu and claims (as does the Chinese WP article) that it can be either huangjiu or baijiu. Is it the case that if a super-strong liquor is distilled from rice or glutinous rice it can still be called mijiu? Badagnani 22:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I restored and fixed up Mijiu. See what you think. Badagnani 06:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Choujiu

Need your input on Choujiu. The new editor has added it as a primary variety at the Huangjiu article as well. Badagnani 22:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Baijiu/huangjiu

The editor is claiming that choujiu is not a form of huangjiu and that "rice fragrance baijiu" is not a form of baijiu. Badagnani 02:19, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for joining the discussion. He has some good points but I can't make sense of the others. You can follow the discussion on both our pages. I agree with him that "rice fragrance baijiu" might be comparable to something like the Western term "whisky," and thus merit its own article, as would Sanhua jiu (like Jack Daniels, for example, might merit its own article). Badagnani 06:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

He says that huangjiu applies only to wines made from rice, from the Yangtze Delta. And that choujiu isn't a huangjiu. Although I think some of the Chinese wine classifications are illogical he may be right in that mijiu and choujiu (as they're not yellow in color) may be in their own category. But I really dislike the categorization by color: i.e., "strong white" = baijiu and "weak white" = mijiu. Badagnani 06:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that classifying baijiu by material isn't the best, and that distilled/fermented is the way to go. It would be like categorizing Western liquors by whether they're made from sugar cane, grain, fruit, etc. Badagnani 06:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Rice Fragrance Baijiu

Question: does the name "rice fragrance" mean that the liquor is supposed to smell like rice? Or does it mean that it's made from rice, and is fragrant? Badagnani 06:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

"Smells like rice spirit"? Meaning it retains some scent characteristics of mijiu? Badagnani 06:42, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Tauchu

Hi, do you know from which dialect of Chinese this pronunciation comes? Badagnani 18:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You put your answer in a different subject on my talk page. If you're talking about tauchu, can you add this info in the Tauchu page? Badagnani 01:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Rice wines

1. The editor is claiming that mijiu can also be a type of baijiu made from rice. I don't think that's right.

2. What is this stuff? If it's baijiu made from rice, then it would be a category we could use instead of "rice fragrance baijiu." It would be comparable to Corn whiskey or Kaoliang in that it tells the material from which it's distilled.

3. What is xiang mi jiu? I thought it was "mi xiang" ("rice fragrance"). Badagnani 01:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I have looked up the chinese source for baijiu,for the 'main ingredient mostly produced from sorghum,only the Rice Fragrance Baijiu produced from Rice.For other ingredients such as Wheat and millet are minor ingredients.--Ksyrie 01:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Mibaijiu isn't the ditilled beverage,so Mibaijiu and Rice Fragrance Baijiu are different,though they all belong to rice drink.--Ksyrie 01:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I found a contradictory definition.[1]--Ksyrie 02:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

To be honest,I am layman for the alcholic beverage,I drink hardly.Maybe the 米白酒 and 米香型白酒 are identical terms.--Ksyrie 04:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I am all for that.--Ksyrie 05:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• With our expertise put together, things are getting sorted out. An article for Rice baijiu or Mibaijiu is in order, I think, comparable to corn whiskey. The dictionary definition saying that baijiu has sorghum as its main ingredient maybe says that because historically this was the case. Perhaps using rice to make distilled liquor in Chinese culture came later, inspired by the northern sorghum ones. But I'm sure that baijiu simply means "liquor," and thus includes both/all the sorghum ones and the rice ones. Badagnani 04:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok,I'll back up you all the way.One minor uncertainty,the rice fragrance baijiu seem to be more official than mibaijiu.Still and all,we take the more popular term mibaijiu.--Ksyrie 05:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

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"Peach shape li"

Hi, can you translate 桃形李? Is this Prunus salicina? If so, should we add this as an alternate Chinese name at the Prunus salicina article? Badagnani 02:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Is this liquor made from Prunus salicina? Is it a flavored baijiu? The Chinese text seems to say it's not made with added baijiu. Badagnani 02:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Japanese fruit wines

Are there any Japanese fruit wines in this website that we should add articles for (or add in the articles for the various fruits? Badagnani 02:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Subgum

Hi, any idea about the etymology of Subgum? Badagnani 19:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Misua

Hi, can you help figure things out at Misua (pinyin, which dialect "misua" comes from, sources, etc.? Badagnani 08:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Gluten

What do you think about the alternate names at this newly created page, as well as the statement that mianjin can be made out of barley as well as wheat? Badagnani 06:44, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Did the writer of the Chinese article just make that up? And are the alternate names correct? Badagnani 02:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Are these alternate names (from the zh:wiki Mian jin article) correct: 谷朊粉 或 谷蛋白? Badagnani 06:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Black bean sauce

See Talk:Douchi for my proposal. Is "black bean sauce" or "black bean garlic sauce" (made, presumably, from douchi) a traditional product and deserving of an article similar to the other articles we have about the various Chinese bean sauces? Badagnani 04:18, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I have a jar of Lee Kum Kee 蒜蓉豆豉酱, which is what I'm basing my info on. I just added a sentence about this sauce to the Douchi article. Badagnani 04:42, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense. I guess just leave the sentence in Douchi about the sauces (with and without garlic). BTW I've seen douchi that is salty and others that aren't salty, just small and black, and not coated in granules of salt. Is that correct, are there two kinds? Badagnani 04:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Tatsoi

Can you come up with the hanzi/pinyin for Tatsoi? Badagnani 07:12, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Tianjin preserved vegetable

Hi, I made a new article at Tianjin preserved vegetable. Can you help add info? Badagnani 20:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

腌菜

At Tianjin cuisine, it says that 腌菜 (yancai) is a pickled vegetable found in Guizhou cuisine. Is this correct? I'd like to make an article for it but can't find sources. Badagnani 22:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Chatang

New article at chatang. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Badagnani 17:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

西桂稠酒

Flickr has several photos of 西桂稠酒. Any idea if this is the same as the Choujiu we have an article on? I don't know what 西桂 means ("west osmanthus" or "west cassia"?). Badagnani 22:54, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Casual Hanfu

Well, I would think that anything double layered would be 'informal' rather than 'casual'. I define casual as something you wouldn't wear to meet people, a bit like clothing worn at home. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 19:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

• I think this link will describe what I term as 'casual Hanfu': http://www.skycitygallery.com/hanfu/design3.html. Arms/legs showing, simple, short, loose, one piece garment without embellishments. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 12:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Chinese fruit

Hi, please look here. Badagnani 04:50, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

New tong sui?

Hi, I think this variety of tong sui should be added to the Tong sui article. Can you provide input. I just found out that in Vietnamese it's considered a Chinese food, is available in District 5 (Chinatown) of Saigon, and is called sâm bổ lượng (probably derived from Cantonese or Chaozhou pronunciation). What do you think? Badagnani 02:27, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Fermentation starter

Hey, take a look--looks like we've got a new editor who's interested in the same stuff we are. Badagnani 20:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

June 2007 Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter June 2007

Almond biscuit

Hi, can you help with pinyin and Cantonese for Almond biscuit? Badagnani 23:35, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Curry beef triangle

Can you add Cantonese for Curry beef triangle? Badagnani 23:49, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Bird's nest soup

Do you know why the Chinese name for bird's nest soup doesn't have 汤 in its name? Badagnani 00:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Lobag gow

The Lobag gow article mentions "hamay" (dried shrimp). Do we need an article on that? Badagnani 02:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Dried shrimp

See new article at Dried shrimp. Badagnani 20:56, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Yellow sauce

See this edit. Do we need an article for this yellow sauce? Badagnani 20:15, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I made one. Yellow soybean paste. Badagnani 07:06, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Pastes

Fascinating discussion about various bean pastes from an apparent culinary expert in Beijing on my talk page, here. Badagnani 07:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it seems that way. The 黄 is simply shorthand for 黄豆 (the normal, yellow kind of soybean), the way 中 is sometimes used to refer to China (without the 国)--like 中-美 relations. Badagnani 07:16, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

The anon food expert is confused about what 黄豆酱 is. S/he says the term isn't used for 黄酱 but do a Google search for 黄豆酱 and there are lots of hits--and photos of tubs of what looks almost like miso. Badagnani 07:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

This is an example. Badagnani 07:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, a merge of what? Doubanjiang and Yellow soybean paste? I don't think those are the same, because the former uses broad beans. Badagnani 07:20, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Doubanjiang (the spicy broad bean paste) can really be used for Zhajiang mian? Is that in Sichuan? Badagnani 07:28, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you ask the Beijing guy? He might know. He seems to be an older guy (maybe in his late 40s or 50s) and I think studied esoteric aspects of traditional Beijing and other northern cookery. Badagnani 07:31, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

If he hasn't changed his IP yet, it's 128.170.136.227. Badagnani 07:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting differences in the Chinese diaspora. We're still researching what the "green crystals" are in Black bean paste (used by Chinese in Indonesia, apparently). This is why it's good to have Chinese cuisine experts in MANY different regions--because each one sometimes thinks they know the whole story, but it's never the case. It's even worse in India! Badagnani 07:34, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Did you read what we found about black bean paste? There are at least 3 or 4 different things with that name--you're right that one of the sweet ones is made from black soybeans, but the other one is made from hongdousha that is cooked with added fat and sugar to turn black. It's extremely obscure and complicated but we'll sort it out. Badagnani 07:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

豆瓣酱/黄酱

Traditionally, the two differs in fermentation process: for 豆瓣酱, exposure under hot sun was required, but this is not required for 黄酱. I doubt that as the manufacturing process being modernized, this difference in traditionaly manufacturing process still exists. There are claims that the fugus used in fermentation is also different, but I cannot provide evidence since I only eat these pastes, not make them, and the manufacturing process is often guarded as trade secrets. The most obvious difference between the two is that 豆瓣酱 must be spicy, while 黄酱 is not, but instead, salty. These differences only applies to northern Chinese cuisines, and I don't known anything about southern cuisines.

You are good! Badagnani 23:30, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Shark fin soup

Hi, can you evaluate this edit? And can you explain why the word "soup" (tang) isn't part of the Chinese name "shark fin soup"? Badagnani 21:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Red baijiu

Hello, do you know anything about this red-colored baijiu? http://www.flickr.com/photos/lobsterstew/122596019/ Badagnani 14:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Red tea flower

Do you know what the red flower in the photo is? [2] Badagnani 19:02, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was osmanthus flowers too, but the photographer said "jazmín." Should I correct him? Badagnani 17:20, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I let him know. From this photo description, it looks like the red flower is tiger lily/day lily (golden needles). BTW those are in season here, and I always eat the buds (everyone thinks I'm crazy). They're good in hot and sour soup. Badagnani 03:27, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

July 2007 Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter July 2007--Christopher Tanner, CCC 19:15, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

August 2007 Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter August 2007

--Christopher Tanner, CCC 16:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

September 2007 WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter September 2007
--Christopher Tanner, CCC 15:23, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Cheeses

Recently there was a tag for deletion of this project which did not pass and there was also a recent merge proposal as well to bring it back into WikiProject Food and Drink. In a hopes to revive this project I have done an excessive revamp of the main page as well as added many subsidiaries to it for organization. I have also created a member template which you can find a link to on the projects main page as well. The one thing I will be doing is including the members of this project along with the parent project WikiProject Food and Drink for the monthly newsletter currently sent to the parent project. If you do not wish to receive the link for the newsletter, just let me know. Hope to see you on the WikiProject Cheeses soon.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 19:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Tisane

Having noticed that you had participated in discussion for the first move of Tisane, I am giving you notice that a second move has been proposed, this time to the more common Herbal tea, which is currently a redirect, in keeping with Wikipedia guidelines and reasonings posted on the talk page. Feel free to contribute if you are still interested in the issue. --♦♦♦Vlmastra♦♦♦ 17:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

鹵味

I'm looking at some old Chinese vegetarian menus and I see seitan labeled as 鹵味. Should this term be added to the Seitan article? Badagnani 07:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

The seitan is definitely labeled just as 鹵味. But if that's a popular way of cooking it in Chinese cuisine, yes, I'd be very much in favor of adding this to the article. I knew that first character looked familiar. Badagnani 01:06, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey, why does Red cooking just list "鹵" but not "鹵味"? Should we add "鹵味"? Badagnani 01:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think 鹵味 should definitely be explained at Red cooking, and something about red-cooked mian jin added at Wheat gluten (food). Badagnani 17:56, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Nuruk

Somebody just added at Korean wine that nuruk is made of wheat and is a source of amylase. Is that correct? Badagnani 00:52, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

It's up to you; I don't know anything about it. Badagnani 01:07, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Shanxi vinegar

Would you mind looking through the discussion at Talk:Shanxi cuisine and seeing what you think? Look through some of the sources first. Badagnani 07:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Look at the article too; I've added some sources about 山西老陈醋. Badagnani 07:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The claims are extraordinary but I'm not sure if they're borne out by historical evidence. Some of the local makers claim that their vinegar starter is hundreds or thousands of years old, and the claims that it's "the finest vinegar in China," "the finest vinegar in the world," and "comparable to the finest balsamic vinegar," all makes me think that it's mostly contemporary, Western-driven hype comparable to that lavished on the "goji" berry. It seems like a way to create buzz and capital flowing into this depressed economic area similar to what the PRC government seems to be doing for Yunnan by pushing pu'erh tea on its subjects. Badagnani 18:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Okara

I notice that the name "snowflake vegetable" isn't used in the Shandong context. Can you figure out where in China that term is used? Badagnani 18:31, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Fun guo

Hi, can you find any Chinese sources for Fun guo and add info to the Fun guo article, regarding composition of the wrapper, whether it should have pleats, etc. It looks like jiaozi but I think the wrapper is made out of something different. Badagnani 07:12, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Duck

See this page and pick a photo you like best. I'll write for permission. Badagnani 03:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Amazake

Is amazake also from China? The article only says it's from Japan. Badagnani 03:50, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it's choujiu? That's the only milky Chinese liquor I know of. There are some Korean ones called gamju, takju, makgeolli... Badagnani 03:58, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

To me it sounds like all of the above. But there is one in southern Vietnam called com ruou. Take a look. Badagnani 04:13, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

They're all in Category:Rice wine, and discussed in the Rice wine article. They're not that different from cloudy sake, just less strong and less filtered (more milky-colored). Most of them taste fairly similar. BTW we still need a photo of choujiu. Badagnani 04:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Zhangcha duck

I've got permission to use a photo and asked User:Blnguyen if this article might be good for a WP:DYK?. Badagnani 06:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter November 2007

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter November 2007
--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 04:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Roasted duck

Do we have an article on Cantonese roasted duck? I think there's one for roasted goose, but isn't roasted duck an important Cantonese food? It's mentioned in the Five-spice powder article. Badagnani 22:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Huangjiu

Someone has added a number of names of huangjiu at Huangjiu#Dryness/Sweetness, such as Yuan Hong Jiu (元红酒), Jia Fan Jiu (加饭酒), Shan Niang Jiu (善酿酒), etc. I've never heard of any of them and wonder where they are produced and if these are brand names or just generic categories. Badagnani 03:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello & Request for Help

First, thanks for your work on the Incense section. Would you mind getting involved in the discussion on the Incense Talk page regarding "Incense & Health"

BrerRabbit-at-Alices (talk) 14:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

麵輪

Just noticed this in one of my vegetarian cookbooks. It's the gluten "wheels" one sees canned and dried. This should be added to the Wheat gluten (food) article. Is it a variety of 油面筋? Badagnani (talk) 10:41, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Relics of Shakyamuni.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Relics of Shakyamuni.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 20:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Eighteen Oddities in Yunnan

Hi, can you help determine what the "bitter green vegetable" is at Eighteen Oddities in Yunnan? Badagnani (talk) 09:18, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter December 2007

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter Decemberr 2007
--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 22:31, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Mantou flour

Why did you change "mantou flour" to "wheat flour" at Fermented bean paste? Is "wheat flour" more accurate? Badagnani 00:23, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

It appears at Sweet noodle sauce as well. Badagnani 00:24, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I dug up the discussion, in some old, obscure places. We did discuss whether it was wheat flour or actual mantou. Take a look and use CTRL-F to find "mantou" because it's discussed in more than one place. The anon, apparently from Beijing, seems fairly certain that actual mantou (possibly pulverized) was used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:128.170.136.227&oldid=139388318

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Badagnani/Archive9

Badagnani 00:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

It's complicated, and apparently some of this is considered "secret" by the manufacturers. Wish we could get back in touch with the Beijing anon. Badagnani 02:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Photo

Should we put this photo in Sweet bean paste or Red bean paste? The Chinese name is 黑豆沙, which is confusing. Badagnani 00:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Why does it say it includes black beans when they look like they're Azuki beans? We have no fewer than three articles about the various azuki pastes: black bean paste, red bean paste, and sweet bean paste. Badagnani 00:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Perfume

I was following the format of other pages of "chemicals," such as, Aspirin, Ibuprofen, etc... all have history sections first. I was under the impression first of all everyone knows what perfume is, which if not is explained in the first line. Then I would figure people would want to know the history of it, considering it goes back thousands of years. I don't think there are any Wikipedia rules on how to order pages, but all enycyclpedias I'm familar with would first cover what something is in simple terms and then the history of it, before the other stuff/details. The Concentration levels and Olfactive families are fairly in depth for someone with no background of it. That was my opinion anyways. (The edit came because I thought the page was missing a history section). Actually the importance of the history section can be seen considing its the only section with its own article. Cheers. Epson291 20:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Chinese noodles

Good job with the "Production" section at Chinese noodles. Badagnani 03:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Double steaming

I think you might like to examine Double steaming. Badagnani 03:38, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Tea graphic

Great job on the tea processing graphic. Very useful and well-done. jengod (talk) 03:40, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter January 2008

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter January 2008
--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC (talk) 05:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Noodles

Good reorganization, but I think there's at least one noodle name that can be made of either rice or wheat flour. Another thing is that you don't have a "rice" section but just a "starch" section, but I don't think rice noodles are made from only starch. Finally, you've got "guay tiao" under "wheat." Badagnani (talk) 03:36, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm embarrassed; I see you were in the middle of adding all those. Badagnani (talk) 03:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Now I can't find the noodle that could be either wheat or rice. Maybe laksa, or one of the other Southeast Asian noodles? Or one of the Taiwanese ones? It may be I'm thinking of a noodle dish that could use either, rather than an actual noodle type. Badagnani (talk) 03:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I think we should add "saifun" as a synonym for cellophane noodles, though it's not clear who uses this term (it appears, in Latin characters, on cellophane noodle packages quite often). Badagnani (talk) 03:56, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[added by a reader, 6-4-08: Maybe "saifun" is a borrowing (and a faux ami) from "cellophane"? If the Cantonese don't really use it, maybe it's a borrowing of English "cellophane," an obvious visual name for these noodles, which got heard by non-English speakers as "si fen" -- "thread noodle," right? Although correctly it would be "fen si"? Is that right?] Gellchom (talk) 23:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

• That is a very interesting theory! But it may be more likely that "saifun" is the Cantonese pronunciation of the Mandarin xì fěn (細粉; literally "slender noodle"). Badagnani (talk) 02:22, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm really proud that we've created this article, which, like a lot of others we've worked on, may be the best overview/list in this subject. Your brilliant idea of reorganization helps a lot. The grid was confusing and problematic before you did that.

One more thing: I think there are other types of noodles we've missed. Can you evaluate these noodles for inclusion: here? Some of the new ones include 雪白掛麵 (Hang's noodles) and 爽滑奶油麵 (cream noodles). I think they're made in HK. Some of them may be variations on the ones we already have, but may still be good to add if they're real ones and not just invented by this company. Your Chinese is better than mine so see what you think. Badagnani (talk) 03:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the term saifun, all the Cantonese who have commented say this term isn't used in Cantonese (although it appears to have its origins in the Cantonese language, being a switching around of "fen" and "si" to "saifun." The question is, then, how did it get promulgated on so many Chinese noodle packages (even in Asia)? Maybe it's a mangled version of Cantonese from Hawaii, Singapore, or some other outlying area? Badagnani (talk) 04:02, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Can you add hanzi/pinyin for "cut," "pulled," "peeled," and "extruded"? Badagnani (talk) 04:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I have tried some of them. They all seem to be made with the same base: very white, refined wheat flour with an admixture of tapioca starch for maximum "creaminess." Each one has a different thickness. Do you support adding any of them? For example, the "Taishan noodles" sound like a real thing. Badagnani (talk) 04:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Liquor

By the way, ever get to a good Chinese liquor store to take photos of the bottles? Nobody ever came through on that end. Badagnani (talk) 03:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Slurry

I think you should add text about the thin-ness of the rice slurry. I didn't know it was that thin. Badagnani (talk) 01:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Amylolytic process

Can you help expand Amylolytic process? Badagnani (talk) 02:43, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

igos, aiyu jelly

Sorry, I do not have a source for igos, but there are articles mentioning the Austronesian origin of the name. For example, http://taigi.fhl.net/CTT/CTT19.html. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hongthay (talk • contribs) 00:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Template

Hi, we've been having quite a problem with linkspam in the textile arts wikiproject. Not every link is spam, of course, but we do deal with it on pretty much a daily basis. Extracting that material takes time away from improving articles. We're running a featured portal drive and that's slowing it down. the section of outgoing links I removed was called "Machine embroidery". Really, templates are intended to help readers navigate between Wikipedia articles. If there's any particular article where an outgoing link is productive and informative then put it there. Or better yet, if the source is reliable then use it to improve the article and make it a citation. Durova^Charge! 17:06, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

"Mixed"

"Mixed" cannot be found in the definition here. Should it be added? Badagnani (talk) 07:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

鍋耙

Hi, can you find info in Chinese about 鍋耙? I think it's something similar to the Korean nurungji (boiled rice crust). Badagnani (talk) 03:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Your description describes an actual Korean foodstuff, nurungji, which, interestingly, is now available in packaged form. Maybe in Chinese cuisine it's not considered an actual dish? Badagnani (talk) 21:20, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Would love to start an article on it, then, if you could start it. Badagnani (talk) 22:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, no--there are no English sources on this, and you know my Chinese isn't that good. Badagnani (talk) 02:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

You mean like for Fried rice or Soy sauce? I was thinking that too. There are some dishes for which we have two different articles, between Korean and Chinese (like Zhajiang mian and Jajangmyeon) or Vietnamese and Chinese (like Chè xôi nước and Tangyuan) cuisine, because they have differences, but in those cases I prefer two articles. Badagnani (talk) 01:45, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Photo

Can you find some photos you think are best?

• Here

and

• Here

Badagnani (talk) 03:49, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Dapan's is great, I agree. The second one reminds me of how Laos eat sticky rice. Will the shrimp one I added work? It's the only "free" one I could find at Flickr. Badagnani (talk) 04:04, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I got permission to use this one. Do you think we still need itm as we already have two? Do people really eat it with their hands like this? It looks more Laotian than Chinese this way. Badagnani (talk) 21:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, I'll get it. Regarding differences, I see the difference between zhajiang mian and jajangmyeon (which aren't that similar) as between sushi and gimbap. There's no overall article on "rice wrapped in seaweed" and they're different enough in making and eating. But for this crispy rice dish, I'd be willing to merge into a single article, as with soy sauce. Badagnani (talk) 21:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe crispy rice, although I guess it's more of a crust. Isn't it sometimes called "sizzling rice" on English-language Chinese menus? I think the Vietnamese also have this, and we need to check the Japanese name. Badagnani (talk) 21:36, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Looks like that photo was taken in South Korea. I got permission and added it to Nurungji. I also added something about the Vietnamese version at Guoba. Badagnani (talk) 21:10, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Asian soup

In Asian soup, the section entitled "Soup bases" has been infiltrated by a list of dish names. I think the article needs to be reorganized. One section for bases, one section for the actual list of soups made from those bases. Badagnani (talk) 21:39, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Chinese wine

See Talk:Chinese wine#Requested move. Badagnani (talk) 19:20, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Kaofu

Are you sure there's no baking powder in it? In that case, it might have undisclosed aluminum. I've about had it with misleading ingredient labels. Badagnani (talk) 23:32, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

How horrible. See Baking powder for evidence of aluminum. I'm going to try to call the importer to see what they use. In my experience, in most cases those companies don't want to say anything, and often don't answer the phone or don't even list their phone number. Badagnani (talk) 23:38, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Great site. Chinese are so clever! Badagnani (talk) 00:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Chinese cabbage

I think you made a mistake at Chinese cabbage by adding 油菜. It originally said "yu cai" and I think the first character is different. 油菜 (rapeseed) is a different species. Badagnani (talk) 18:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I think "yu cai" may be 豫菜. Badagnani (talk) 18:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, no, that means Henan cuisine. Badagnani (talk) 18:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Dajiang (food)

New article at Dajiang (food)--maybe you want to add to it. Badagnani (talk) 02:53, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Thierry Wasser

A tag has been placed on Thierry Wasser requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Bstone (talk) 14:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Thierry Wasser

The article appears to be a generic vanity article. The references listed are questionable. However, I am going to go ahead and undelete it. I would not have a problem if somebody took it to AFD for further review though.Chrislk02 ^{Chris Kreider} 14:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Based on policy, there generally arent exceptions when there are no reliable 3rd party sources. I will however trust that the sites listed as at least semi reliable. I am still not 100% sure, however will err on the side of caution and undeleted the article. If you could find any more references, it would be very helpful. Chrislk02 ^{Chris Kreider} 14:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter June 2008

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter June 2008

--Chef Tanner (talk) 16:50, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

粿

There are a lot of 粿 at WP. Chwee kueh, Turnip cake, White sugar sponge cake, etc. Badagnani (talk) 19:43, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that the character 粿 is used in different languages (and even in Chinese) to refer to basically unrelated compact cake-like foods--both savory and sweet. It would be like putting "pizza pie," "chicken pot pie," "cherry pie," and "choco pie" all in the same article. Badagnani (talk) 07:52, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Making an article including all of them (like the Vietnamese Bánh article) might be possible. Badagnani (talk) 06:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Superior stock

Hi, can you make an article on "Superior stock," which as used as the basis for many Chinese dishes? It's not mentioned at Asian soup and doesn't have an article. Badagnani (talk) 02:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Recipe here. Badagnani (talk) 02:37, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, the English translation "Superior stock" is used in a lot of cookbooks, so I think this name should be mentioned at Asian soup. I think the main thing is it has pork (maybe including Jinhua ham), chicken, and other flavorings, presumably imparting a lot of umami. Badagnani (talk) 02:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Needs sorting out

Hi, today at the garden store I found packages of seeds called "Tatsoi." But I see that both Tatsoi and Zha cai mention that "tatsoi" or "tatsai" are two different species; can we somehow sort out which is the real tatsoi/tatsai, and from which language/characters this word comes? (I'm guessing Cantonese.) Badagnani (talk) 07:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, can you determine the hanzi for both (and from which dialect each comes), so we can disambiguate both of them really well? Badagnani (talk) 18:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Need your help or comment

Looks like user:Ohconfucius thinks we are over-doing it for the food projects. He marked quite a few for deletions and merge. I do not agree with any of them. Please put up a comment here or here. I already asked him to stay away from WP:food articles if he has no interest. Benjwong (talk) 16:10, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter July 2008

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter July 2008

--Chef Tanner (talk) 15:39, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Radishes

If you believe Chinese radish should not be called by the English name "daikon" (which itself has many varieties, some of which look just like the Chinese white radish, with green on top), then we'll need a Chinese radish article, and a Korean radish article for that matter. Using the well known English name Daikon seemed the most logical, but it could get complicated if we split into three separate articles. Could we use "East Asian radish" and discuss them all in a new article? I'm just throwing this your way to see what you think. Badagnani (talk) 17:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Community forum

A Community forum has been set up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Article guidelines for the various Food and Drink projects to develop a set of Manual of Style guidelines for use in articles under the auspices of all the related Food and Drink WikiProjects and task forces. This would be similar to the MoS guidelines for biographies or legal articles.

Please feel free to comment.

--Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 10:05, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Can I ask you a favor?

Hello, Sjschen, I come here to seek some help. I want to know the title of a poem composed by Mei Yaochen on eating kuai, or raw fish/meat. I read the following info on a Korean newspaper.

“ The consumption of raw meat or seafood is hard to find in the present Chinese cuisine except few regions. A Taiwanese-Japanese historical novelist, Chin Shunshin speculates that the consumption of raw meat was almost disappeared after an epidemic spread to the continent in the 11th century. In light of a poem composed by Mei Yaochen, a leading poet of the Song Dynasty which depicts (a host) presenting kuai for waiting guests, so the consumption of raw meat dishes were at least triving until that time. ”

Together with tis, do you know what region of China still consume raw fish/dish? Thank you in advance.--Caspian blue (talk) 13:43, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the detailed information. I really appreciate your help and time. I think my translation does not properly convey the original Korean source. Well, the speculation is from Chin Shunshin, and according to 16th Korean source says, Chinese did not eat raw meat/fish during Imjin Waeran (Japanese invasions of Korea). So I don't know which is true. --Caspian blue (talk) 22:11, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Are you saying that Chinese people ate sliced raw fish as a main culinary item back in Tang times? If so, it is likely that, like Chinese characters, Confucianism, chopsticks, yayue, etc., the eating of raw fish passed from China to Korea, and thence to Japan? The Sushi and History of sushi articles don't mention this at all. Apparently, some Japanese-POV editors keep trying to claim that Korean hoe is a dish of Japanese origin, but if what you are saying is correct, it may actually be of Chinese origin--and, like most Chinese cultural items, may have actually been spread to Japan via Korea. This is a very interesting subject and I wonder if you could locate sources about this. Badagnani (talk) 23:54, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot; so there aren't really sources showing that the Korean and Japanese traditions were inspired, at least in part, by Chinese ones? That's fine; I was just checking. But, I have one question: Hoe (dish) shows that this Korean term comes from 膾. If 膾 was a raw fish dish in Tang China (which I'm not sure about), this could show a link that the Korean dish was inspired by the Chinese one, possibly through interactions between the courts of both nations. Can you find anything about this, via this linguistic link? The Wiktionary page for 膾, however, only says that this is "minced," not necessarily raw, so it may be an example of a false cognate. Badagnani (talk) 00:21, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Excellent guessing! As weleating raw things was something that the "uncultured barbarians" did and thus one does not one to "lower themselves to that level". Perhaps the rule for cooking food was enforced in the Chinese armies too? --> Indeed, my sources tell that Chinese soldiers considered Koreans barbarians because Koreans ate raw fish/meat....I think cooking ingredients throughly affects the development of Chinese tea culture.--Caspian blue (talk) 00:52, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

However, Chinese cuisine has changed quite a bit over time. If raw meat and fish were widely consumed in China prior to the 11th century (as I think Sjschen has said), it would make more sense. Many Chinese cultural items were adopted by Korea during the Three Kingdoms, Tang, and Song. Badagnani (talk) 00:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

From what I'm reading, a lot of prominent Chinese died or got very sick from intestinal or liver flukes or whatever parasites they picked up from eating raw fish, though many of them apparently loved it and kept eating it. So I wouldn't say it's fair to say that Chinese always said that various barbarians were the only people who ate this. Badagnani (talk) 01:18, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Please see the second to last post, which points out several sources that could be examined. Badagnani (talk) 01:20, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it's fascinating that there seem to be connections between the raw-fish traditions of the CJK nations, with very good historical sources--and these Chinese raw-fish traditions are so little known to the general public at present, who mostly think it's a Japanese thing. One of my Chinese friends told me Japanese invented this food because they were historically "very poor," but on the contrary one of the sources states that sliced raw fish was reserved only for the highest classes in dynastic China--totally opposite what he had told me! Some of the sources they mention seem to be widely available. Badagnani (talk) 01:31, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - Just a point of information: the Chinese term for "Eastern Barbarians" (which at times may have been used to refer to Koreans) would have been Dongyi.

New article

Good idea! I guess it would be one called Kuai (food), equivalent to the Japanese namasu and the Korean Hoe (dish). Badagnani (talk) 01:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, should it be Kuai (food), or Sheng yu pian (生魚片, the title at zh:WP)? I think the former. Badagnani (talk) 02:21, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, see Kuai (dish). Can you help by hunting up the ancient references?

Can you find the reference to this dish in Mencius (links below, as it says it's there at [3])?

• http://zh.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=%E5%AD%9F%E5%AD%90/%E7%9B%A1%E5%BF%83%E4%B8%8A&variant=zh-hant

• http://zh.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=%E5%AD%9F%E5%AD%90/%E7%9B%A1%E5%BF%83%E4%B8%8B&variant=zh-hant

Badagnani (talk) 02:58, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, could you check these references in the Book of Rites? Badagnani (talk) 03:03, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Question

How did you ever find the Japanese woodcuts you just added to Umbilicaria esculenta? Badagnani (talk) 23:54, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Blind luckSjschen (talk) 01:29, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Can you do me another favor?

Thank you for all info, and your effort. I'm currently on some unofficial sanction by admin after I filed on wikistaking me by some editor for long time. As the "fair reward", I could not edit any article that he edits, and have to wait to past five days. If he continuously edits an article, I have no choice to edit it for good. My questions to you were all linked to Hoe (dish) article, because Pro-Japanese editors have vandalised the page as if Korean eating hoe (raw meat/seafood dish) came from Japan. That is a blatant lie. Therefore, I translated some contents from a Korean newspaper and encyclopedias to prevent such things any more and left the history section at the talk page. I initially asked Badagnani to add them, but he is more interested in researching cultural transmissions from China to Korea to Japan and etymology. I only found sources for the claim that eating raw dish originated from China and transmitted to Korea. My translation only covers just third of my sources. So his demand to research sources linked to China takes more time for me. I also would add your sources later, but not this time. To sum up, could you add the below to the hoe (dish)? Thanks. But if you think the content should be examined, so you can't add them to the article, please just let me know. --Caspian blue (talk) 01:49, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Contents

It is assumed that the way of eating hoe was introduced from China to Korea during the early Three kingdoms period (57 BC - 668) induced by frequent interchanges between China and Korean peninsula. According to the Confucian Analects written in the 1st century BC, Confucius said "Food never can be too shredded; kuai should not be sliced too thin". The kuai (膾) refers to nowadays raw meat. However, since Buddhism flourished in Korea from the mid part of the period until the late Goryeo Dynasty (918 – 1392), killing of living beings as animal life was avoided, so that the habit of eating meat in general was almost disappeared along with eating hoe. As the dominant influence of Buddhism fell off in the late Goryeo period, the consumption of hoe was revived. During the Joseon dynasty, the state highly regarded Confucianism, and Confucious was known for enjoying eating raw meat, so eating hoe was accepted without any resistance in the time. On the other hand, the consumption of raw meat or seafood is currently scarce to find in the present Chinese cuisine except few regions. A Taiwanese-Japanese historical novelist, Chin Shunshin speculates that the consumption of raw meat was almost disappeared in China after an epidemic spread to the continent in the 11th century. In light of a poem composed by Mei Yaochen, a leading poet of the Song Dynasty which depicts a host presenting kuai for waiting guests, so the consumption of raw meat dishes were at least thriving until that time.

Does this mean that you're seeking to use other editors as "meat puppets" to avoid this probation? No offense meant, I am just wondering. For me, working together to get the information just right is the most important thing. Badagnani (talk) 01:58, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Now, you're accusing me of doing "meatpuppeting"? I think your such disruptive behaviors should get more attention.--Caspian blue (talk) 02:06, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Comfort Women

You do not edit unknowing articles, please. How about buy Japanese dictionary taking this opportunity. thank you. --122.135.163.183 (talk) 13:40, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

First off, you deleted captions providing important information about the images, as such I reverted your disingenuous actions. Second, what do the edits have anything to do with learning Japanese? Anyone who can read Chinese characters can see what the note says. Finally you have no right to tell me what I cannot edit, so don't bother me again, please. Sjschen (talk) 13:48, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

thank for your effrt comfort women article. Keijō nippō was published by Governor-General of Korea which japanese goverment. Keijō nippō was a newspaper which published by japanese goverment. so this newspaper never relation with korean's own will. it is reasonalbe that this newspaper was published by Imperial japan. anyway, thank for your effrt comfort women article. Masonfamily (talk) 14:44, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry Sjschen, i didnot know you could read chinese. the information I deleted was unrelated with the newspaper advertising, because the advertising was legal case. i dont think there was no betraied case. if you want to leave the information I deleted, write in other sentence not this newspaper advertising sentence. --122.135.163.183 (talk) 15:37, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

to 122.135.163.183

advertising was legal case. but it is not a reason for delete sourced material. this is not a important taht 'advertising was legal case' or not. "advertiment decived women." but you try to HIDE this fact. your deletion reason is totally unreasonable. Masonfamily (talk) 16:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Cavernous

Well, in my concept, "cavernous" means something like "really huge and gaping," and doesn't usually refer to the method of ingress and egress--just the dimensions of the hole. So in that article it's probably better to add the fuller description of what the hole(s) look like rather than just using the word "cavernous," which could be misinterpreted. I don't think the word "cavernous" is used without using it to modify some word like "hole." Badagnani (talk) 15:49, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Dude

I understand the logic about limiting the amount of pagodas, but what you did was kind of uncalled for and you did not consult with anyone on the talk page first. I spent a lot of time thinking about which images were best for that article. The fact that you even got rid of the Pagoda of Fogong Temple image raises questions. Please, talk to people before making sweeping and drastic changes to an article that obviously someone has put some work into. That's all I ask.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 08:10, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Oil

Are those sources enough to go on to add a bit about the presumed etymology? The term is from the Cantonese language, correct? Badagnani (talk) 19:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Wow, are all those names referring to the same kind of sauce? You should add some info to the article about this. Badagnani (talk) 20:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Chinese shoes and official hats

Hello, Sjschen. I don't know whether you're interested in Chinese traditional clothing or not, but I need your help. What have Chinese people called shoes made of leather or fabric /boots/straw shoes/ in history? I know the question would be very broad and ambiguous, but many of Korean headgear, shoes came from China especially court clothing. Traditional Korean boots are called "hwa" (靴 or 鞾)[4] and every shoes without necks are collectively called "yi" (履) which includes "hye" (鞋)[5][6]. I just looked through several sources regarding Chinese shoes via web and book, but they don't specify the Chinese characters for the name such as "lu", "ju", and "jinlian". The shape of the Chinese shoes are different from Korean ones. Therefore, I think even though Chinese shoes were introduced to Korea and the names still remain to the present, they have been adapted to Korean taste. Anyway, could you enlighten me about the original Chinese names for the shoes, and also fill out the Chinese name for headgear in Category:Chinese headgear? Some of Chinese headgear were introduced to and worn in Korea and Japan, such as 紗帽. --Caspian blue (talk) 01:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)