User talk:Primergrey

Welcome

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A brownie for you!

Thanks for the spelling checks! I'm glad people like you are around to proofread articles. Happy editing. ComputerJA (talk) 22:55, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

August 2013

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• and are part of the [[WIAA Big Eight Conference]]. Middleton also has an alternative high school (Clark Street Community School (CSCS), formerly known as Middleton Alternative Senior High (MASH),

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• after one weekend), Kirby salesman, balustrade maker at Ted Saville's, [[Streatham]], [[London]]), Driegersteller welder ([[Driestieffenbach]], [[Germany]]), teacher of technology (Washington

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Reginald Corbet

Four of your edits to the Reginald Corbet page destroyed wikilinks, leaving annoying red text. Please check before you leave this sort of thing, which someone has to clear up. In fact, the normal Wikipedia practice is to use numerals to distinguish members of a line of nobility or baronets, although I'm not sure it actually matters much. Either way, the whole point of a wiki is that it has internal links, so you need to take care not to break them. Sjwells53 (talk) 23:00, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Basketball positions

There is no WP guideline that says the second postion in an infobox should NOT be capitalized. The convention for basketball, baseball (see Paul Molitor) and football (see Mike Alstott). I think it is fine to pursue a change, but the 1000s of articles that are formatted this way do form a consensus per WP:CONSENSUS. Changing this has wide impacts and I would ask that you try to convene a consensus discussion if you really feel strongly about this. Rikster2 (talk) 20:11, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Italics in page titles

Hello! Use {{Italic title}} to add italics to article titles, the usual wiki syntax does not work. I've already added the template to The Botanic Garden. Cheers, jonkerz ♠talk 02:32, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Cases

You may or may not be more knowledgeable than I in reference to this subject. However, AP and DoD Style guides and even Wikipedia state Abbreviations should be capitalized. The full name of Marine Corps ground units of the infantry and artillery above the battalion are numbered and include the unit level, i.e. 9th Marine Regiment, 12th Marine Regiment. Abbreviated the word regiment is dropped and written as: 9th Marines or 12th Marines and when in sequence, 9th and 12th Marines instead of 9th and 12th Marine Regiments. Meyerj (talk) 16:18, 28 November 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.249.19.246 (talk)

December 2013

Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for your contributions. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, please note that there is a Manual of Style that should be followed to maintain a consistent, encyclopedic appearance. Deviating from this style, as you did in Wheel of Fortune (U.S. game show), disturbs uniformity among articles and may cause readability or accessibility problems. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Please explain the changes you're making to this article, as they do not fit the format. There should be no reason to put so many words in quotes. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 20:06, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Reverted edit to Network traffic control

Hi Primergrey (how did you know the colour of much of my [fake] TR7 Sprint, A TR7 16V?),

I have reverted your edit to Network traffic control because I feel that "burstiness" is very slightly more correct than "burst" in this context. My reason is that delay variation or introduced jitter can reduce the intervals between frames/packets without actually creating a burst (or clump as ATM used) of frames/packets/cells. This is burstiness without a burst. You can get this affect after policing/shaping by setting the bucket depth to allow for more than one frame, but less than two at a time. There's enough on the Leaky bucket page (just a bit) to work out the range of bucket depth, tau, or CDVt values for this effect.

It also retains commonality with the terminology in the first sentence of traffic shaping.

If you feel strongly that I am wrong in doing so, and that both usages should be changed, we can discuss it on Talk:Network traffic control or my talk page if you like. Graham.Fountain | Talk 09:34, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Capitalization

Hi. I thought I'd let you know that your success rate at "correcting" capitalization is only running at about 60%, from the edits that I have examined. That's high enough that I have not rolled backed all of your edits, but low enough to be a concern. If I had the time and inclination, I'd take a look at allof your edits and fix those that are problematic. Instead, I'd suggest that you be more careful, and push your average up. In one article, Photorealism, you even capitalized some instances of the same word and uncapitalized others. I don't know if that was deliberate or a slip-up, but if I see more examples of that type, I'm going to start losing my assuming of good faith. Please step it up. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:53, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

The edits in question are simply, Photorealism, photorealist. This is what the MOS guideline appears to be. Like, Communism, communist (unless a Communist Party member). As for the 60 percent, if you are using the Wikipedia MOS I have serious doubts about that number.

Looking now at your other revisions, those were proper edits according to the MOS. Vice-chair is only to be in upper case when part of a person's name, Vice-Chair Smith, and such. General manager is a job title and should never be capitalized, like lead-hand or foreman.Primergrey (talk) 05:37, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

This is not necessarily relevant to the specific edits discussed above, but titles are also capitalized when referring to a specific individual holding that title, rather than the position itself. E.g., "the King said" but "fit for a king". (MOS:JOBTITLES) Ibadibam (talk) 22:18, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Further to this, please do not uncapitalise proper names as you did with Lionel Everett. Names of organisations and honours are proper names and should be capitalised. Ranks should indeed be uncapitalised unless they are given immediately before an individual's name (although please note that when this article was written it was normal procedure to capitalise ranks on Wikipedia - this has subsequently changed). -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:01, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

[1] Want to add my voice to this, the uncapitalization of proper nouns capped in RSs, the substitution of "their" to replace masculine pronoun to achieve gender-neutral. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 03:35, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Your specialist fallacy creep is regrettable as it makes a sloppy looking encyclopedia Primergrey (talk) 11:30, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I'll add another note, which is that names of flags are proper names, and as such should be capitalized (e.g. "Continental Colours". Ibadibam (talk) 22:18, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Please try to use edit summaries. It really helps us save a lot of time. Many thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:25, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014

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• Admiral]]. Howard ceded some control to Drake, given his experience in battle. The [[rear ]admiral]] was Sir John Hawkins.
• * Martin, Colin (with appendices by Wignall, Sydney: ''Full Fathom Five: Wrecks of the Spanish Armada'' (with

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Request technical view

Primergrey, would you mind having a look at the discussion at Talk:Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy)? Much appreciated. Shem (talk) 17:49, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 7 January

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Coyote X

thanks for correcting my editing error to Shane Doan and not just reverting. appreciate it.Primergrey (talk) 07:09, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

No problem. ;-) Ryecatcher773 (talk) 18:49, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

February 2015

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Technical page move requests

I have got know that you had requested a page move[2], without making discussion on the ATP. Please avoid it. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 09:55, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Talkback

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Please comment on VP proposal: Creation of Wikipedia style noticeboard

You are being contacted because you are listed as part of the Feedback Request Service under Wikipedia style and naming. There is talk at the village pump about creating a noticeboard similar to WP:NPOVN and WP:RSN for style issues. Right now, people tend to bring their style questions to WT:MoS and other talk pages: [3] [4]. They do not much disrupt business there, but there is some concern that people may not know where to go to get a clear answer about Wikipedia's policies regarding punctuation, capitalization, spelling, and other style issues. Proponents of the measure say that a noticeboard would be easier for people to find. Opponents of the measure argue that such a style board might facilitate forum shopping and drama. Your contribution would be welcome The proposal itself is at the Village Pump. A mockup of the style noticeboard is here. Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:18, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

June 2015

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Obergefell v. Hodges

Hi. I undid this edit as I think many of the changes were mistaken. For example, generally when referring to the U.S. Supreme Court specifically, "Court" is capitalized. You can see that in section headings on pages such as United States v. Lara and Katzenbach v. McClung and Fullilove v. Klutznick. The same is typically true of titles of officials and of "Constitution" when referring specifically to the United States Constitution. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:27, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 4

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White = "it" ? Dutch Defence = Dutch defence ? Etc.

I think you're being a bit reckless (not "bold") re a lot of your capitalization and pronoun changes. IHTS (talk) 05:42, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes

really WCM_email 23:08, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Third Ypres ce

Dear Primer, thanks for your edits to Broodseinde et al. but did you know that it's a convention to use words for Allied army numbers and numbers for the Germans; "The French First Army" and the German 4th Army"? It's also a convention in these articles for am and pm to be punctuated with full stops, a.m. and p.m. It was one of the first articles I worked on and I wasn't as knowledgeable or consistent as I am now, so your copy edit has been generally welcome, I'm still blushing at the howlers you remedied.;O)) I wouldn't want you to waste effort on a misunderstanding. Thanks again. Keith-264 (talk) 06:28, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Invitation to join MILHIST

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ArbCom elections are now open!

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Reference errors on 30 April

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Military history WikiProject coordinator election

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Incorrectly changed trademarked proper names in Sports Car Club of America article from capitalized to lowercase

In May you went through the Sports Car Club of America article and did a wholesale change of all of the SCCA's various program names from capitalized to lowercase. These program names are trademarked proper names and thus were correctly capitalized in the first place.

I'm assuming good intent, but you appear to have a consistent track record of mechanically converting capitalized words to lowercase without first understanding why they were capitalized in the first place, introducing a lot of errors in the process. Please reconsider your approach. Stephen Hui (talk) 06:56, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

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MoS

Thanks for getting involved. I'm not sure what is motivating this full-court press against MoS, but it's clearly well-organized. I find this disturbing given the trend in recent years, as the regular editorial pool has dwindled, for WP:FACTIONalism to be on the rise. I looks to me like the goal is for MoS to be hamstrung as a guideline (if not simply eliminated) so that every random wikiproject (and wikiproject-like clique) and would-be page "owner" can impose whatever idiosyncratic style they want and prevent anyone from normalizing it to encyclopedic prose. I hope more people who recognize what MoS is and does for Wikipedia will speak up before things get genuinely disruptive.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:42, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Same here. I hope to see you involved, Prime. Dicklyon (talk) 05:45, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

RM discussions are frequently the venue for MOS attacks; thanks for participating in some of those recently. Dicklyon (talk) 04:51, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

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Edits to Triumph TR7

First of all, and as a purely procedural point, I take that you haven't read Wikipedia:Basic copyediting#Etiquette. At the time, I could not go through it, but wasn't prepared to let it stand till I could, because there are clearly some changes that are objectionable, or at least worthy of discussion. I did put in the subject "discuss". But I admit I only assumed you would follow procedure rather tha simply re-revert.

I have a problem with a number of the points of tense, because, while there are still existing instances of TR7s, the model is no longer current, i.e. not being manufactured. Hence, I don't accept that "The Triumph TR7 is a sports car manufactured from September 1974 to October 1981" is an improvement. I would argue that it should be either "The Triumph TR7 is a sports car that was manufactured from September 1974 to October 1981" or "The Triumph TR7 was a sports car manufactured from September 1974 to October 1981", as an acceptable simplification. I have, however, corrected it to the former. I don't like some of the "has"'s instead of the "had"'s, etc., either, but...

"The original full size model wore MG logos" is clearly correct as it was: This was a clay "model car" used in 1971 in the design process and not a "car model", as in a version of the type. It no longer exists, other than in a few old photos, so I have corrected that too. It was this egregious error that made me revert the whole thing until it could be discussed.

I didn't have chance to look at the time, but I wasn't sure about "The Shape of Things to Come" as it is a direct quote. I just don't think you should change a quote without a specific note that it is presented incorrectly - even if you can argue that original material was incorrectly formatted you must be careful if you correct it as a part of editing. So, were the original source "The Shape of Things to Come", not "The shape of things to come", it might have warranted a "[sic]", but shouldn't have been corrected. However it was used in the advertising materials without capitals and so I accept that one - it just needed special, preferably individual, treatment as a quote.

The industrial action was continuous over 1977 to 1978 - the strike itself was from the 1st of November 1977 to sometime in February 1978 -, and the data range is not in lieu of 1977 and 1978. "1977-8" is correct as I understand it to be given in Ritter's 'Oxford Guide to Style' and so should, I think (but haven't checked), be in accordance with Hart's rules; however I see that MOS:DATERANGE gives that such ranges should be as "1977-78", and have changed it to that.

Graham.Fountain | Talk 16:08, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Capitalization at 2017 Congressional baseball shooting

Hi, Primergrey. I've reverted most of the capitalization changes in your edit to 2017 Congressional baseball shooting. By my count you made 13 such changes, and in my view 11 of those 13 were incorrect. In eight of them you changed "Capitol Police" to "Capitol police". I don't see how this is in keeping with MOS:INSTITUTIONS: The Capitol Police are a government agency, and when one says "Capitol Police officer" one doesn't mean "police officer from the Capitol," which is what a lowercase p would imply (and which would make no sense in this case, since no one is from the Capitol). With the Alexandria Police it's somewhat different, as one can speak of a "police officer from Alexandria" as well as of an "officer of the Alexandria Police Department". However, in both of the cases where you changed the capitalization, the APD were very clearly being referred to as an institution, not as a general concept. Notably, in both cases the phrase you changed was "The Alexandria Police" (emphasis added), not just "Alexandria Police", which is an important distinction. Finally, you lowercased the R in Representatives before a long list of representatives. Here, I think it ought to have been quite clear that the word was being used as a shared title rather than a general descriptor.

In writing this message, I couldn't help but notice that a large portion of your talkpage consists of complaints about your approach to capitalizations. With respect, perhaps this is an area in which you need to reevaluate your approach? — PinkAmpers&^{(Je vous invite à me parler)} 03:05, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Minnesota, New York, Massachusetts governors

I'm fed up with all this B.S at Al Quie, Wendell Anderson, Deval Patrick, etc etc. Inconsistent application by the decapitalizing editors is just too frustrating :( GoodDay (talk) 01:41, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Are you sure MOS says no italics for Acts?

I checked the MOS for the use of italics in legal Acts Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Legal#In_Canada, and it shows links to the McGill Law Journal which does use italics... so where in the MOS does it say we should not use them? Mattximus (talk) 13:42, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

I think I found the issue. You seem to be applying the American convention on wikipedia to a Canadian article. Canadian articles follow a different MOS, found here: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Legal#In_Canada. This style uses italics for Acts. For example, see here: [5] They also follow different spellings, etc... I can re-add the italics in if you want. If you still insist American convention be applied to a Canadian page, you can also read the MOS exceptions (at the bottom of the link you sent me) where it says any title that is long may be italicized. That would also apply here. Mattximus (talk) 14:27, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

MoS talk: which v that

I am interested to know which editor at whom your accusation of jingoism was aimed. Please do inform me.-Sb2001 (talk) 23:48, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

@Sb2001: It was surely in response to you posting "Americans need to learn to accommodate the original language which they are trying to take over, ie English ... the language of England. This will never go through to the MoS. Push for an engvar if you wish, just do not try to enforce your ridiculous Americanisms on those of us residing in the UK." That raised hackles with a lot of people, and has a lot to do with why your reception here by me, EEng, and various other editors has been something akin to an immune reaction to a pathogen. I know we've hashed some of this out in e-mail and the situation is probably "chill" by now; just want to clarify that posts like that are not going to go over well. If you ice down the heat, the core of this sentiment is that Wikipedia should accommodate British editors to the extent practical, along with Americans (and Canadians and Australians, etc.); and that editors trying to push nationalistic preferences on other editors is disruptive. This is already the status quo consensus, though. WP:ENGVAR is as accommodating as it is practical to get, and Wikipedia style is a compromise; Americans have to adjust to things that aren't their typical or preferred style, too.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  08:32, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

I was planning on leaving this alone because I figured I would only escalate things if I answered. But, once again, SMc has summed up the situation damn near perfectly. Any and all manfestos, particularly those with a nationalistic skew, are red flags to many folks here. My intention was not to insult you, and i apologize if I did. Primergrey (talk) 12:42, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Spelling of aluminium

Re your edits at copper. Aluminum is spelt aluminium in chemistry related articles per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (chemistry) and IUPAC naming conventions regardless of the variety of English used in the article. SpinningSpark 21:41, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Good to know. Thanks. Primergrey (talk) 02:29, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

A friendly note from Felix

Copied from above:

   Dead on, my friend. I am indeed the OCD guy, live and in color. My failure to moderate it, however, reflects careful observation of WP's strengths and weaknesses, one of the latter being ambiguous communication that ignores the fact that not only is much of our discussion automatically kept accessible, but also it supports finding out what logic has been evoked without waiting for responses from other equally busy people. Enjoy.
--Jerzy•t 20:34, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

   Oops! Dunno how that landed at top instead of bottom. (And (in case you hadn't already guessed that) i don't delete anything on others' talk pages -- tho i stopped to think thru whether it makes sense in this case.)
--Jerzy•t 20:44, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

I'll take care of it, thanks. Anyway, buddy, I'm pretty aware of non-neutral postings and I tend to err on the side of overly-brief. That being said, I think I'll just perma-copy the one posted for me. Thanks. Primergrey (talk) 23:28, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

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Western oriole

Hello Primergrey, as you've now reverted the alternate names addition three times today, perhaps you wish to discuss on the article talk page or the WP:BIRDS project pages why you feel these changes are necessary (WP:BRD). 'Cheers, Loopy30 (talk) 23:23, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

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Discussion about MOS:JOBTITLES

There is a discussion about whether to add clarifying text (shown in boldface ) to MOS:JOBTITLES at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Clarification of "Titles of people" that you may be interested in. Sincerely, HopsonRoad (talk) 14:30, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

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National anarchism

Hey, due to MOS:INSTITUTIONS the name of National-Anarchist Movement should be written with capitalized letters. It's name of organization, not of movement of national-anarchists as general. --Wojsław Brożyna (talk) 08:22, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Patience (game)

Hi Primergrey, thank you for your edits at the above article. The usual convention in specialist literature is to use title case for the names of card games (e.g. Parlett, Dummett, Hoyles, Arnold, Morehead, Mott-Smith). I'm not sure why, but it may be because many of the names are normal words (e.g. Forty-Five, Hearts, Red and Black, Pig, Pitch) which could be confusing if they were in lower case. As to the names of cards, the sources use both "Ace" (e.g. Parlett, Dummett) and "ace" (Hoyles, Arnold), so we should probably not prefer one over the other. Thanks. Bermicourt (talk) 21:29, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I didn't write that very clearly. The names above - Parlett, Dummett, etc - are not card games; they are very well known and respected authors of card game literature (and in some cases, researchers). They invariably use title case for the names of games and I've just given a few examples i.e. Forty-five, Hearts, etc. I apologise for the confusion. Bermicourt (talk) 14:34, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

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Nominations now open for "Military historian of the year" and "Military history newcomer of the year" awards

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Changes to Imperial Japanese Army artillery template, per MOS caps

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6:00 am inspiration

Re: [6]

As far as I know, all MOS talk pages have their intended purposes stated at the top; e.g. WT:Manual of Style/Biography says: "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Manual of Style/Biography page." Clearly that excludes discussions like what you're talking about. I fully support compliance with the clearly stated instructions at the top of public pages; they are there for a reason. ―Mandruss ☎ 15:08, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Well, it could be more explicit: "This page is ... for discussing X, not for discussion of style questions not addressed by MOS. Such questions should be directed to Y." And it could be an editnotice, not that anyone reads those. EEng 16:30, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

An unintended consequence of that approach is that many editors would deduce that a public page may be used for any purpose they see fit, provided it's not explicitly forbidden. A page should say what it's for, not what it's not for. If editors need direction to RD, that can be handled like any other help provided to editors unfamiliar with the landscape; i.e. a comment within the wrong-venue discussion. And we can never encourage editors too much to RTFM. ―Mandruss ☎ 17:02, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

A page should say what it's for, not what it's not for, unless experience shows that the page is getting not-for discussions over and over. EEng 17:13, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Only because editors have followed bad examples that weren't corrected by editors who knew better. It may take a little time and a little effort, but that can be reversed. After all, if editors are ignoring the existing usage instructions, they will likewise ignore the usage instructions you propose. The only effective solution in such situations is to change the quasi-libertarian "rulz r 4 fulz" mind-sets of editors who ignore usage instructions. If you want to try something else, go right ahead, but don't come asking me for comment when it doesn't work. ―Mandruss ☎ 17:51, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

In practice, discussion of how to interpret and apply style guidelines occur on the WT:MOS pages. Is that a problem? Examples? Dicklyon (talk) 22:04, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

What I'm talking about is any time someone comes to a MOS talk page with a question about something not covered by the MOS. Questions about our style guidelines are one thing, but someone looking for general style guidance should be told that they're in the wrong venue. Post your advice on their TP, but keep the MOS TP for exactly what you mentioned: interpretations, applications and suggestions for additions. Primergrey (talk) 22:34, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

"Removed unsourced"

In response to this revert, none of the content in my edit originated with me, it was copied directly from this revision of the page, the last revision before an anonymous user vandalized the page by removing a random chunk of the text (including the header). If any of the prose being unsourced is a problem, it's a problem which existed before the removal vandalism. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{☎ Dinoguy1000} 05:18, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Pholidota imbricata

Hello Primergrey,

I'm curious about your edit to Pholidota imbricata. Can you please explain why you have "unlinked" some of these countries and not others, and why you have done so, leaving other pages (such as Pholidota) with the same links? Seems strange to have Sulawesi linked but not Sumatra and Santa Cruz Islands but not Vanuatu for example. Also, I don't understand why you have changed Queensland to "Queensland Australia" (when "Queensland" would probably suffice). I'm sure you have good reason but I would appreciate knowing since I have used these links on many other orchid pages. Gderrin (talk) 02:22, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. Reading your response on my talk page, I would suggest there is some more cleaning up to do on the P. imbricata page, including on some of the countries I have mentioned above. I will attend to that. Gderrin (talk) 12:47, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Backlog Banzai

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Convention

[quote]

• Integers from zero to nine are spelled out in words.
• Integers greater than nine expressible in one or two words may be expressed either in numerals or in words

--Brogo13 (talk) 11:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

[quote]

• Where more than one style is acceptable under MoS, editors should not change an article from one of those styles to another without a good reason. Primergrey (talk) 12:38, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

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Please see

Please see Talk:Child Protective Services#Requested move 30 December 2020. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 07:56, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

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Period within the quote

What constitutes "logical"? Dyno Tested (talk) 21:21, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Nevermind. I trust your judgement, I'm pretty much still a novice after 13 years. Now could you please give some pointers/suggestions on the Plymouth Valiant page? Dyno Tested (talk) 21:59, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your pertinent statement about "Excuse me".

Thank you for your pertinent statement about "Excuse me". --Jujiang (talk) 00:55, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

You're welcome. Mirriam Webster online has 8 uses of "excuse me", only the eighth one is sarcastic or derisive. Primergrey (talk) 01:06, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I just looked at the Mirriam Webster online. Yes, only the eighth item is ironic, and it is informal. Thanks. --Jujiang (talk) 01:42, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Fermat and all

Thanks for trying to fix the caps at Fermat's Last Theorem; sorry I didn't notice soon, and got in late. Generally, we should use WT:MOSCAPS#Capitalization discussions ongoing (keep at top of talk page) more to help style-interested editors notice such discussions, sort of like how wikiprojects keep their members up on discussions affecting articles they care about. Dicklyon (talk) 04:06, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

I thought I had posted notice there. Primergrey (talk) 04:22, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

My mistake; yes, you did; thanks. Dicklyon (talk) 14:54, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Hey, long year, lots of caps issues under the bridge. By the way, Canadian male, your turf is mostly terra incognito to me, so when I fly over on the way to Europe and back I try to get pix when I can see the ground, and figure out what I'm looking at. I got a few a month ago on the way to San Francisco from Amsterdam. See User:Dicklyon#Aerials from that trip. Dicklyon (talk) 05:03, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Honestly, Dick, Alberta looks pretty good from the air, but you should really land there once if you have half a chance. Drive through the blue Canadian Rockies. Check out Lake Louise and Banff National Park. (My name is "Grey" BTW.) Primergrey (talk) 17:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I been to both a few times, but not recently. I'll get back there. Is that your area? Dicklyon (talk) 18:03, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm in BC, in the Fraser Valley. Primergrey (talk) 21:19, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Ah, yes. You had some serious flooding there this year, didn't you? My mom in law, age 100.5, is nearby in Bellingham, just finished with a bout of covid. Dicklyon (talk) 21:51, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, the worst since 1990. Good news about your mother in law, both my folks got covid at the tail end of it. They were both fine, too. Bellingham's great to fly out of instead of Vancouver. Wayyy cheaper. Primergrey (talk) 22:26, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Comet (card game)

Hi Primergrey, thanks for your edits to the above article. Please be aware that reliable sources are split over the capitalisation of card names which means that it is not inherently wrong to capitalise them as e.g. Ace, Ten. Both are acceptable. Cheers. Bermicourt (talk) 21:11, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi Bermicourt. If sources are split then the MOS is in favour of lower-case. When it comes to language, I personally don't find thinking in terms of "right" and "wrong" very useful. Just conventions. Primergrey (talk) 00:44, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, MOS on capitals needs challenging because it's been largely written by an editor with a zeal for lower case who comes from a region where lower case is the trend, who then enforces his POV. To state that there must be an "overwhelming" use of title case in the sources otherwise lower case will be enforced clearly overrides the Wikipedia rule that we follow reliable sources. And MOS:CAPS is applied by such editors as if lower case were "right" and title case "wrong". It has been used, for example, to decapitalise the name of a particular game where not a single source does so (actually failing even the "overwhelming" test). Years ago, Wikipedia made the very sensible decision to implement WP:ENGVAR and allow different varieties of English spelling. The same principle should be applied to those elements of style where, as you say, there is no right or wrong as far as reliable sources are concerned: e.g. the capitalisation and, sometimes, hyphenation of certain words. Especially as some of the variations tend to be regional. I've researched the capitalisation of card game terms extensively and both varieties are widespread; lower case tending to be a North American phenomenon. Bermicourt (talk) 08:09, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, if it does, indeed, need challenging, then someone should start a discussion to that effect. But the guidance is well-established and until it changes, it is the way to proceed. Primergrey (talk) 14:27, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

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VHS

Sorry for the long discussion on the errors page. Annoyingly, the article refers to "a VHS", "VHS VCR", "VHS cassette", and "VHS tape". All of those are used, but damn, it should be consistent. SL93 (talk) 01:22, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

No problem. I agree that the article needs polishing. FWIW, I grew up in the VHS/Betamax era and I don't ever recall them being simply called "VHS". Most people I knew said "VHS tapes". Sorry if I came across as argumentative. Primergrey (talk) 06:37, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

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Indents & outdents

FWIW, I do agree with 'not' hiding words. But, since you've undid my 'outdent' correction to your post? You're on your own. GoodDay (talk) 21:51, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

It's too bad that this site places so much emphasis on who your allies are. Primergrey (talk) 22:35, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

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Just a note

But with your experince and history, you should have some extra user rights (list found here), certinly Rollbacker and Pending Changes Reviewer, but perhaps also Page Mover, which would've come in handy today, but also in the future. Should head over to WP:RFR and 'gear up. (-; (jmho) - wolf 03:52, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

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Infobox firearm cartridge

Thanks for your contributions. The infobox automatically places the appropriate , and . signs. Values have to be entered without using these signs to enable autoconversions of units in the infobox.--Francis Flinch (talk) 18:30, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, of course. Sorry about that. Primergrey (talk) 20:05, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Manifest destiny

Thanks for this revert. I wasn't thinking, knee-jerk reacted to an edit, missed recognizing the connection with the article title, and didn't research much. There's no discussion on the present talk page, but I found and noted this and this -- both arcxhived from there. Cheers. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 17:26, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

I didn't realize it was archived. Sorry about that. Primergrey (talk) 17:59, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

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WP:UAA

That was rude. Reporting at UAA is not tattling. Also, the user had edited, yesterday, so point number one was moot. Best -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:07, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

More rudeness today? Really? -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:37, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

That guy's been here for 17+ years. That seems like plenty of time to read and understand the banner on top of the page that he's using to discourage new editors from sticking around. Primergrey (talk) 21:38, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

May 2023

Hi Primergrey! I noticed that you recently marked an edit as minor at Opel Meriva that may not have been. "Minor edit" has a very specific definition on Wikipedia—it refers only to superficial edits that could never be the subject of a dispute, such as typo corrections or reverting obvious vandalism. Any edit that changes the meaning of an article is not a minor edit, even if it only concerns a single word. Please see Help:Minor edit for more information. Thank you. - Sumanuil. _{(talk to me)} 22:57, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Regarding your edits to Opel Meriva, please use the preview button before you save your edit; this helps you find any errors you have made and prevents clogging up recent changes and the page history, as well as helping prevent edit conflicts. Below the edit box is a Show preview button. Pressing this will show you what the article will look like without actually saving it.

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Thanks for the tips. Primergrey (talk) 03:09, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

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Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open

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List of Justices of the High Court of Australia

Hi Primergrey, I've got one more ongoing move discussion that's encountered some resistance. Would love to read your input on it. Cheers! Woko Sapien (talk) 13:41, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Mid-ocean escort force

It still seems to be at Mid-oceanescort force. GraemeLeggett (talk) 07:01, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Shit, my mistake. Taken care of now, GraemeLeggett. Primergrey (talk) 07:11, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

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December 2023

Hello, I'm The Banner. I noticed that you made a comment on the page Irish War of Independence that didn't seem very civil, so it may have been removed. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. The Banner talk 17:57, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Personal attack

This edit summary is a personal attack. The Banner has fluent English and, apparently unlike you, a good knowledge of Irish history. By convention, the word "Treaty", in reference to the Anglo-Irish Treaty, is always capitalised. I am not reverting at this time, because the article falls under the one revert restriction remedy at the Troubles ArbCom. Please do not edit-war, please do apologise to The Banner, and please discuss your disputed edits on the article talk page. Scolaire (talk) 18:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

A restriction that Primergrey has already breached... The Banner talk 18:56, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

You've all become so habituated to tag-teaming that you're doing it on pages where it is entirely unnecessary. So not speaking English as a first language is an insult, is it? Is English the world standard of languages? Is having, by the shear accident of birth mind you, the privilege of learning it as a mother tongue the gateway to otherwise unknowable bliss? What colonialist hogwash! Primergrey (talk) 10:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

You have no better arguments than insults? The Banner talk 11:23, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Voting for the WikiProject Military History newcomer of the year and military historian of the year awards for 2023 is now open!

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Renaming the page 'Grand Antique marble' to 'Grand antique marble'

Hello Primergrey, I would like to discuss the renaming of the page Grand Antique marble, specifically regarding whether or not to capitalize the word 'antique'. I understand that grammatical rules require the word to be written in lowercase, and I would agree if it were an adjective. But here, the entire designation 'Grand Antique' constitutes a proper noun, and I believe it could deviate from the common rule. Unfortunately, the two links I provided in the page discussion have become inactive already. However, a Google search for the terms "Grand Antique" + "marble" or "Grand Antique" + "Aubert" shows that the capitalization is commonly used in this case. English not being my native language, I simply bring this point to your attention, and I'll trust your judgment. Best regards. Frédéric Neupont (talk) 08:22, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Frédéric Neupont, if "Grand Antique" is, indeed, a proper noun phrase, then it's my mistake and by all means revert. Primergrey (talk) 17:35, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia style and naming request for comment

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Capitalisation on Mk 153 SMAW

You said on your first reversion of my recapitalisation of the proper names in the Mk 153 article that "if you want to change the MilHist MOS go there and propose it". However I don't actually need to do so, as MOS:MIL#Capitalization quite clearly states that proper names should be capitalised. As such, would you be so kind as to revert your changes. Cheers, RadiculousJ (talk) 11:31, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Saying that something is a proper name doesn't make it so. As the name is entirely descriptive I assert it is a generic descriptor. Love, Primergrey (talk) 20:15, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Harassment

Please do not cast aspersions, as you did here. If you believe harassment to be taking place then you should take it to ANI. Disagreeing with a person is not harassment and it'd be silly to see it as such. Hey man im josh (talk) 11:50, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

To be clear, I respect your right to disagree with my assessment and to restore the discussion if you wish. What I don't agree with is the accusation of harassment. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:08, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't know if this is performative or if you actually think anyone would be stupid enough to believe that it was just a coincidence who you happened to be reverting. Primergrey (talk) 13:07, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't care to be performative. I don't think disagreeing with someone in the past (I've agreed with them a number of times as well for reference) means I shouldn't ever revert them and I don't believe reverting a person is harassment. I'd prefer that you substantiate the claim of harassment because I'm not seeing it. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:10, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Now that I've found my way through all the strawmen...Is that how you normally disagree with people? You revert them on talk pages? Primergrey (talk) 13:30, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

You'll need to be more clear. After all, I didn't revert you when you disagreed with me on that talk page, I've come here instead. Not sure what you mean by strawmen, but as mentioned, please substantiate the claim of harassment. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:36, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello. Just wanted to follow up on this request to see if you would substantiate the claims of harassment. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:03, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

this. Primergrey (talk) 16:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but if you're going to accuse someone of harassment then you're going to need to substantiate it more than that edit, as that's pretty clearly not harassment. Additionally, a single revert where I disagreed with listing a discussion at that location, with a relevant reason, is not and should not be considered harassment. Dicklyon and I did speak about this after my revert as well. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

That edit was what I called harassment. It was a harassing edit. I don't know what you mean by "substantiate it more than that edit". Primergrey (talk) 16:44, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Your edit summary, where you reverted that edit of mine, stated, "clearly harassment, based on the history between these two".

Wikipedia:Harassment states: "Harassment is a pattern of repeated offensive behavior that appears to a reasonable observer to intentionally target a specific person or persons."

Wikipedia:Harassment#Accusing others of harassment states: "It can be seen as a personal attack if harassment is alleged without clear evidence that the others' action is actually harassment..."

Wikipedia:Harassment#What harassment is not states: "... any other editor has the right to revert edits as appropriate." It goes on to further state, "Unfounded accusations of harassment are a serious personal attack and dealt with accordingly."

Reverting an editor, in of itself, is not harassment. Having a history with a user that you revert does not make it harassment. I strongly encourage you to substantiate your claim of harassment or admit that you jumped the gun and shouldn't have used that terminology. I understand you cannot remove the edit summary, and I'm not asking you to remove the discussion link if you truly believe it to be relevant to the group, but I'm asking that you at least state here that you were wrong about it being harassment. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:05, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I certainly did not mean to suggest you violated any of those rules. (I didn't know we had our own harassment policies). I was not thinking along the lines of this nor the legal definition of harassment but the much more benign general def, like, "Dude, quit harassing me." I could have just as easily chosen a different word to describe the situation and things would probably be fine. Sorry for the mess. I thought you were overreacting and I wound up acting like a dummy. Primergrey (talk) 18:08, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I appreciate that, crap happens and sometimes we pick our words incorrectly. For what it's worth, I understand and recognize that some people disagree with my removal of that discussion. I also see how some people may think I have a bone to pick with Dicklyon (I do not, and I've tried to make that clear to them). We just disagree sometimes. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:27, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

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