User talk:Nadav1/Archives/June 2007

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Thwarting site's plot

This might do a better job of lessening the disruption, if any, caused by this site. -- tariqabjotu 03:55, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Ingenious! Do you think it's better to put a comment in the dummy section or just leave it blank? nadav (talk) 04:00, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

That might not be a bad idea. Perhaps something along the lines of the wording in the rally template for those who actually attempt to post there. -- tariqabjotu 04:14, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

YechielMan's RFA

Thank you for participating in either of my unsuccessful requests for adminship. Although the experience was frustrating, it showed me some mistakes I was making, and I hope to learn from those mistakes.

Please take a few minutes to read User:YechielMan/Other stuff/RFA review and advise me how to proceed. Best regards. Yechiel Man 21:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

East Jerusalem synagogues

Are you absolutely sure about this? It is possible, for example, that they were used for other purposes, then restored to synagogues? Jayjg ^(talk) 02:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, well I know for a fact that the Ohr haChaim synagogue was still functioning up until the war. It was closed and then reopened in '67. This info is on the Israeli government websites [1] and [2]. The Ari synagogue I think was used only until the riots in '36. I have no info about the third Jewish quarter synagogue on the list. nadav (talk) 02:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Well, do what you think best. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:46, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

COI Templates.

Hi, I'm sending you a message because of your involvement with the Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_May_18#Template:COI_and_Template:COI2 discussion. The result of the TfD was no-consensus, but there was a significant expressed consensus for editing the templates to bring them into line with good practice. Unfortunately this has not happened, and the templates have been left pretty much in the state they were before the TfD. Would you like to assist in bringing these templates in line with good practice? --Barberio 16:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Soft redirects

Hello. You didn't have to take Brian Radel and Jason Arrant to RfD; I would have self-reverted the prod deletion if you explained why soft redirects are bad. I didn't get any sense of that from reading Wikipedia:Soft redirect, though I don't have much experience with them. Best, nadav (talk) 00:44, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was best to get some other opinions on RfD, since if one person disagreed with the {{prod}}, other people might too. And you are right that when not to use a soft redirect can be obscure; the rule of thumb is that a soft redirect is nothing more than a redirect, only that it couldn't be done as a redirect because of technical limitations. In the case of names of people redirecting to another wiki, there is a precedent for deleting them (there were dozens of these pointing to the sep11 wiki, and all were deleted), but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere. --cesarb 00:50, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Water memory

Would you mind taking a look at my recent edits to water memory and adding any kudos/complaints to the talk page? I'd like to try to reach some consensus on the material. Maury 15:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Expanding Tzuf Dvash Synagogue

"Hello. I am thinking of expanding the article to include more general details on the development of the North African Jewish community of the old city. I also want to add info on the Tovi Yishbau yeshiva (now Torat Kohanim). Do you think this should this be done in the current article (with an appropriate name change) or in a new one?" nadav (talk) 01:41, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Although I see the advantage of having all the information on one page, I am inclined to leave this page exclusively for information about the synagogue and create a new one about Torat Kohanim Yeshiva, as in Ateret Cohanim which has a redlink to Torat Chaim Yeshiva which had used the same building previously. We would then retain the Tzuf Dvash Synagogue listed under Category:Synagogues in Jerusalem. I am not quite sure in which article you could add information about the development of the North African Jewish community – maybe it would require its own page? Chesdovi 09:33, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that I have just enough content on the community to provide background but not enough for an independent article. It mostly involves the Tovi Yishbau yeshiva so I suppose I'll just create the page like you said and then put it there. Best, nadav (talk) 09:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

היי

ראית את מה שהלך כאן? האשמתי, לדעתי באופן מבוסס-ואני עובד על נוסח חדש יותר, את אחד המשתמשים באנטישמיות-המקרה הזה הוא פשוט די ברור ויש הוכחות. משתמש אחר, מהסוג שיודע כנראה להצליל את כוונותיו, תקף אותי באופן פראי למרות שמשתמשים נוספים אמרו שהם מסוגלים להבין את העובדה שאני מאשים את המשתמש הראשון באנטישמיות. בכל אופן, שים לב שרק בנוגע ליהודים יש כל כך הרבה מלחמות באם הם יוגדרו כיהודים או לא, תחת אלף ואחד תירוצים שונים-כלומר, יש כאן מצב בלתי נסבל שצריך להיות מטופל באופן שיטתי-ובטח ובטח, שלגבי הכלל של "תניח כוונה טובה", הוא צריך לעבור שדרוג למציאות, לפחות בכל מה שנוגע בגזענות או באנטישמיות.--Gilisa 21:19, 7 June 2007 (UTC) כל טוב

הויכוח הוא לגבי משתמש אנטישמי בשם telleramn שלגביו להניח כוונה טובה זה כבר עיוורון-אז גם לזה יש גבול אחרת המפעל הזה לא יוכל להמשיך ולהתקיים-ממילא יש לא מעט דברי ביקורת על ויקיפדיה.

היי נדב. המשתמש טלרמן טען, בדיון שיזם משתמש אחר (יש לי חשד שטלרמן והוא הם למעשה אותו משתמש ואז מדובר בבובת יד), שנסב על שאלת יהדותו של גיאורג קנטור כי "כל מי שטען עד היום שקנטור היה יהודי היה או אנטישמי או ציוני נלהב, שניהם אסורים לציטוט" . זאת במענה למספר מקורות אקדמיים שציינו כי ייתכן שקנטור היה יהודי. ובכן, מבחינה עובדתית, אף מקור אנטישמי לא ייחס לקנטור מוצא יהודי. ויתרה מזאת, אף מקור שזיהה את עצמו כציוני טען שקנטור היה יהודי, אמנם היו ביוגרפים יהודים שייחסו לקנטור מוצא יהודי. אכן קיים מקור ציוני אחד, מתוך כמה מקורות לא ציוניים בהגדרה, שייחס לקנטור מוצא יהודי-וזאת האינציקלופדיה היהודית, אבל זה היה לפני שהיא הפכה לציונית.

כלומר, טלרמן ערך פה איזה שהיא הקבלה בין ציונים לאנטישמים, שלל את זכותם של ציונים ולצטט והפך אותם ללא אמינים מיסודם. עוד, היות ורוב הכותבים על יהדותו של קנטור הם יהודים-יש להניח שהמושג "ציוני", בשימוש שנעשה ע"י טלרמן, מתכוון בעצם ל"יהודי".

טלרמן זוכה להגנה נלהבת של Trovatore שמגן על טלרמן (בהיסטריה ממש) מבלי שטלרמן עצמו מתערב בדיון, מעבר לכך-התגובות שלהם, בויכוחי עבר איתם (לפני מספר חודשים) תמיד היו קרובות מאוד בזמן וטלרמן הוא תוקף נלהב של קטגוריות יהודיות, מדענים יהודים וכ"ו- טרבוטרי הוא פרופ' למתמטיקה ולא יעשה דבר שכזה בזהותו הרשמית.בנוסף, שטענתי בטעות כי טלרמן קרא לטענותי "מגוכחות", בדיון בו נכח טרבוטרי, טרבוטרי, שאליו הופנתה הטענה, לא טרח לתקן אותי-מאוחר יותר התברר לי שלמעשה התבלבלתי וטרובטורי הוא זה שכינה את טענותי מגוכחות. מעיון בהיסטוריה של משתמשים קודמים שהועפו בשל הפעלה של בובות, נראה כי לא פעם בונים למשתמש הדמה היסטוריה של ממש ואישיות של ממש-כמו גם כתיבה במגוון ערכים שהמשתמש הראשי לא פעיל בהם.

אולם, למעט תמיכה בעניין קנטור, מסקירה ראשונית ושטחית למדי, לא מצאתי תמיכה של טרבוטרי בעוד דיונים שבהם נכח טלרמן-בכל אופן, הייתי רוצה לבדוק את האפשרות (גם אם היא לא נשמעת סבירה מאוד או בכלל, אני מודע לכך, זה עניין של תחושה), חרף העובדה שטרבוטרי הוא משתמש מכובד ופרופ' למתמטיקה, עדיין, היו דברים מעולם. --Gilisa 09:43, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

נדב יקירי, אנא קרא את תשובותי לווגלי וליונתן בעמודים שלהם-לא כי אני לא מכבד אותך, אלא כי פשוט אין לי כוח לכתוב זאת פעם שלישית.ערב טוב שיהיה (מה השעה אצלך?) גילי--Gilisa 20:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Nadav

Hello Nadav,

Thanks for your message. It seems you are a reasonable Wikipedian.

I am actually sick of this. Most articles related to Palestinians or Palestine is unfairly treated on the English Wikipedia. While most other languages contain more balanced information, the English version is not getting a fair share.

There are many editors here who are just not interested in information that justifies the Palestinians and their history. For example, many do not like the fact that they are descendants of populations that have existed in the Levant including Israelites themselves! Just the fact that they are Arabic-speaking as most other populations in the Middle east, does not mean that their ancestry is purely from Mecca as some right wind editors love to see...!

I have tried for many months to enhance that section and include sources I see academic and so on. But many users who are, as I see them, are only biased and like to stick to a version which starts at the Ummayid period. As if the peasants of Palestine, the very most original and indigenous population, came during the Ummayid period!

I am not very interested in wasting too much time here on English Wikipedia, but it is certainly and issue that articles related to Palestine suffers.

You are welcome to enhance on that section, and I would kindly request that you not remove information we spent times, looking up from google scholar and so on. There is aloot of information in Arabic sources about the family structure of the Palestinians, things that have been preserved for centuries.. Unfortunately, I can not include such sources because this is the English Wikipedia.

In any case, I am not having Wikipedia as my full-time job like many of those editors. I feel pissed off when massive removal of information happens. Instead these editors should spend time on restructuring the material, balancing it, add other material that gives another perspective. But not killing and removing a material that supports one point of view. It is disturbing and against the spirit of Wikipedia...

Almaqdisi ^{talk to me} 01:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying and I see that you have the best interests of Wikipedia at heart. I think we have made some good progress on the talk page of the article in terms of deciding what to add. See the discussion with Tiamut especially, who has done a lot of work towards expanding the article and making it more readable. And I am sure more information will gradually be added. Feel free to suggest new directions for expansion on the talk page; the info about family sounds really useful. Best, nadav (talk) 01:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello Nadav, thanks, but I am really not uncompromising. This information was there on Wikipedia since before I started editing 10 months ago or so.... Also, It is suspicious that this information is just disregarded for not obvious reason except being political. The material again could be added on, debated through other references, but not just simply blanked and taken out... This is called book burning.. I hope you do understand what I mean.... In fact, I do find no compromise from editors I start to suspect that they are hostile to Palestine and the Palestinians in general. This is not a political forum of a blog... All relevant infor, particularly it is taught in schools, should be there... If something is inaccurate, you can bring a citation that mentions that withouth removing the original ones... Leave the readers decide where the truth lie... also, please let me know about these Scienct Journal articles you mentioned... I do have a university access and can pull any article from the web... Thanks, and I hope you be understanding... I am not an indulged wikipedia editor, and the time I invest in Wikipedia, I feel is being wasted in mouse cat style editing. Thanks, and layla tov (hebrew) laila taybah (arabic)... Almaqdisi ^{talk to me} 03:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Your replacable image tag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PN_Chalmers_300.JPG I have removed your replacable fair use tag for the following reason: A fair use rationale was posted. -Rogerfgay

Replied on your talk page. nadav (talk) 10:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Joshua Prawer

Hi Nadav, I've already got Prawer on my watchlist and I've been reading all the additions and improvements. I don't know if I can improve it any more, but I will see what I can do. Adam Bishop 16:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I just wanted to make the section on his work as comprehensive as possible. I think I've done all I can, considering that a month ago I hardly knew the Kingdom of Jerusalem existed. nadav (talk) 00:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Kopp on Nazareth

Hello Nadav1: I understand your questioning of Kopp as a source regarding the help Nazareth (still a Jewish village at the time) gave to the Persian Chosroes II in 614 CE. Clemens Kopp was a Catholic priest who wrote on archaeological and historical matters relating to Christianity. He is a principle source on Nazareth archaeology second only to Father Bagatti. Kopp is not by any means without errors, but in this case there is no reason I can see to doubt what he writes. Kopp is citing from Eutychius (876-940 CE) http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05639a.htm whom I translate here: "As [Chosroes II] began his march towards Jerusalem, the Jews joined him-- those who still lived in Tiberias, in the Galilean highlands, in Nazareth and in the surrounding regions. They set out for Jerusalem and aided the Persians to destroy churches and to slaughter Christians." According to Kopp, this passage (originally in Latin) is from Eutychii Annales in Migne's Patrologia Graeca vol. 111 p. 1083. Renejs

Zionisms etc...

Hi Nadav, Sorry if my comments offended you. I did not realise that you considered yourself Zionist. (Because your edits have been most constructive). As you said zionism does mean different things to different people. All the best ابو علي (Abu Ali) 07:24, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I try to keep my political beliefs as separate as possible from my Wikipedia editing. However, I will say that I do support the concept of a state for the Jewish people. What I meant was that it's not useful to call people "Zionist" nowadays, since it doesn't have one clear agreed-upon meaning, and it can cause a lot of misunderstandings. Regards, nadav (talk) 08:08, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Well it is good to meet a person like you who is not abusive to other editors, and who does not spend his time on Wikipidea trying to whitewash all criticisms of Israeli Government actions. As for Israel being a state for the Jewish people, I have my doubts. The most ardent Zionists I have met on Wikipedia have chosen to live in America rather than Israel. Anyway that is another discussion. All the best. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 20:00, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

FYI

[3] Zeq 09:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

That page hasn't been on my watchlist. I'll see what's going on there when I get back tomorrow. Best, nadav (talk) 10:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Mirandas last edit to her talk page.

'(diff) (hist) . . User talk:Miranda‎; 10:07 . . (+142) . . Miranda (Talk | contribs) (respond...ooops on last comment, b/c 1.) lack of coffee 2.) Nadav = !troll)' copied from my watch list. troll are you?Ω§|Blacksmith2 09:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I noticed it, and I am hurt. But there's no use making a big deal out of it...This happens on Wikipedia. nadav (talk) 09:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Please don't make a bigger issue of my lack of an edit summary on that edit. It was late at night when I covered this conversation. Forget the incident, and go on with your normal editing. Miranda 17:37, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Forgetting is/was the plan. nadav (talk) 21:02, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

non-free image?? what do you mean?? as far as i can tell i took the picture, made the sims, lot etc, is a link allowed?Ω§|Blacksmith2 09:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I was responding to the fact that there's a nonfree copyright tag on the image page, and that you've also added your own copyright. I am not sure about the status is of screenshots from games where players do most of the graphics (if that's what you mean). However, even if that's the case, you still have to release the image as free content. I didn't see any indication that you did that. Also, notice that unfree images have to be in articles, they can't just sit unused on the server. Don't worry, you'll get the hang of this soon, just remember that wikipedia takes copyright seriously. Best, nadav (talk) 09:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

so is a link still a allowed? Ω§|Blacksmith2 09:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

posted on WP:ANI. nadav (talk) 09:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Non-scholarly sources

At some point he'll have to realize that romantic histories written by amateurs in the 1920s are not reliable sources, and that Wikipedia editors are indeed empowered to make these decisions. Frankly, given the discussion on the Talk: page, and the fact that he continues to insert material that is already in the article, I think his edits can almost be reverted as vandalism. Please feel free to e-mail me if you want to discuss at greater length ideas for improving the article. Jayjg ^(talk) 18:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

בקשת סיוע קטנה

לפני יומיים בערך עזר לי משתמש ישראלי בשם Gridge

לערוף את דף המשתמש שלי-בדף הופיעה תמונתי, שצולמה בפרו ע"י חבר-ולאחר שהנ"ל ערך אותה, נזכרתי לספר לו, כבדרך אגב, שאני לא זוכר אם הייתה זו חברת הראפטינג או שהיה זה חבר שצילם את התמונה במצלמה שלי. הוא אמר לי שיש בעיה עם זה, ואני ערכתי בירור, פתחתי את דיסק התמונות שקיבלתי מהחברה שעונה לשם "Mayuc" וחיפשתי את התמונה הזו-היא לא הופיעה שם. לאחר מכן פתחתי את מארגן התמונות של אולימפוס, היינו של המצלמה הדיגיטלית שלי, והיא כן הופיעה שם. חשוב לי לציין שאני זוכר בבירור שאת התמונות במצלמה תמיד צילמו חברים, כלומר, כאלו שאין להם שום כוונה לדרוש זכויות יוצרים.

היום בבוקר שנכנסתי לדף המשתמש שלי-התמונה לא הייתה. המשתמש שקודם עזר לי כתב לי שהוא החליט לבקש הסרה של התמונה מוויקישיתוף בכלל. וזאת למרות שכבר כתבתי לו שחבר צילם אותה-משתמשים אחרים בעבר אמרו לי שאין עם זה בעיה, נעשה לי כאן עוול לדעתי.

Gridge טען שרק תמונה שצולמה ע"י אח או ע"י אמי מספיק טובה לזה-ומה ההבדל בין זה לבין חבר טוב? יתרה מזאת, וזה ממש לא קשור לעניין, גם חברת הרפטינג לא דורשת זכויות יוצרים ובמייל קצר אליה אני יכול להוכיח זאת-אבל אין צורך בכך מכיוון שלא היא צילמה את התמונה.

בקיצור, אתה יכול לעזור לי להחזיר את התמונה?--Gilisa 04:46, 13 June 2007 (UTC) :אני יודע שזה נשמע מצחיק, אבל מבחינה טכנית, Gridge צודק. על פי חוקי ארה' 'ב, זכויות היוצרים תמיד שייכות ליוצרים עצמם אלא אם כן היוצר הוא שכיר שהכין את היצירה עבור מעסיקו, למעט מקרים בהם שלושת שהקריטריונים הבאים מולאו:

i) the work must be specially ordered or commissioned; ii) the work must come within one of the nine categories of works listed in the definition above; and iii) there must be a written agreement in advance between the parties specifying that the work is a work made for hire.

(לקוח מ-Work for hire) במקרה הזה לא מולאו קריטריונים 2 ו3. אם אתה באמת רוצה להחזיר את התמונה לויקישיתוף, תצטרך לבקש ממנה להרשות שימוש בתמונה על פי ה GFDL או משהו דומה. יש הוראות נוספות על זה בWP:COPYREQ. זה נשמע קטנוני אולי, אבל אנשים מאוד מקפידים על כאלה דברים בויקישיתיף. nadav (talk) 05:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

שכחתי להזכיר גם את אפשרות העברת הזכויות לאחר מעשה. על פי החוקים באמריקה, גם זה חייב להעשות בכתב:

"Under the U.S. Copyright Act, a transfer of ownership in copyright must be memorialized in a writing signed by the transferor." (Copyright#Transfer and licensing) nadav (talk) 05:35, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

תשמע-עם התמונה הזאת אין בעיה כי חבר צילם אותה ואם הם כל כך מתעקשים אני יכול להביא הסכם חתום ע"י. מעבר לכך-החוק הזה הוא באמת חלק מתרבות תביעות מפותחת, אולי וכנראה שהרבה יותר מדי (קיבלת פעם את האי מייל עם 10 המגוכחות ביותר בעולם שזכו?, כולם מארה"ב-כולל תביעה של אדם שהתהפך עם הטיולית שלו לאחר שהשאיר אותה על קרוז קונטרול והלך לישון וטען כי החברה לא שמה אזהרה מפורשת על כך שאסור לעשות את זה (אם כי היא כן אמרה שהקרוז קונטרול אינו תחליף לנהג.. ושהו רק שומר על מהירות)) השאלה היא אם ויקיפדיה האנגלית כפופה לחוק האמריקני? שכן היא מיועדת לאנשים מכל המדינות דוברות האנגלית והחוקים באוסטרליה, קנדה, בריטניה, ניו זילנד, ארה"ב וכ"ו הם מאוד שונים. או שאולי זה מתבסס על מיקום השרתים?--Gilisa 13:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC) :אני לא ממש מתערב בענינים של ויקישיתוף. יש להם מיליון ואחד כללים לגבי אילו תמונות מורשות. זה נכון שמיקום השרתים גורם עיקרי, אבל בנוסף לזה באמת מנסים לקחת בחשבון גם חוקים של מדינות אחרות. אני לא מתימר להיות מומחה בתחום הזה. nadav (talk) 06:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

שמתי לב שאתה הוספת לא מעט ערכים שנוגעים למסורת היהודית, אני די בקיא בתחום-ואשמח להשתתף איתך בכתיבת ערכים כאלו, אם תהיה מעוניין בכך. אישית, אני לא יכול להוסיף ערכים לבדי היות והדקדוק האנגלי שלי הוא גרוע-אני צריך קורס באנגלית בסיסית שילמד אותי להשתמש בכללים אלו בצורה נכונה-אבל יש בי רצון, ואני חושב שגם יכולת, לתרום במגוון נושאים. כל טוב --Gilisa 06:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

:אם קשה לך באנגלית, למה אינך תורם לויקיפדיה העברית? תרגמתי כבר מספר מאמרים משם ואני בטוח שיש עוד הרבה דברים להוסיף. כרגע, אני בעיקר מחכה לביקורת על הערך של יהושע פראוור, כי עבדתי עליו די הרבה ואני רוצה שהוא יגיע לסטטוס "ערך טוב" (אני מחפש תמונה שלו די הרבה זמן אגב. אני מאוד אודה לך אם תמצא אחת איפושהו) חוץ מזה, אני מקוה להוסיף קצת לדברים שקשורים לרובע היהודי בי-ם ולמרד בר כוכבא. בקיצור, אם ברצונך להוסיף משהו בעברית, אני אשמח לתרגם ולפתח אותו. האם לזה התכונת? nadav (talk) 07:46, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

בוויקיפדיה העברית קל לי לתרום וגם תרמתי קצת (ייסדתי כמה ערכים והוספתי הרבה לערך שעוסק במדיניות הגרעין של ישראל) -אבל הוויקיפדיה העברית פחות מעניינת אותי. כן, אני מעוניין לכתוב בעברית ושאתה תתרגם לאנגלית או שת"פ וכ"ו. לגבי מרד בר כוכבא-מצאת את האיש הנכון, יש לי המון מידע ומקורות בנושא-החל מארגון המרד ועד לסיומו ולתוצאותיו, התגובות ברומי למרד והאופן שבו הוא תואר ע"י היסטוריונים וקיסרים רומאיים מאוחרים לאדריאנוס במהלך ההיסטוריה וביקורת של היסטוריונים ואנשי אקדמיה וצבא ישראלים (כמו יהושפט הרכבי שהוציא שני ספרים בנושא) על האופן שבו הונצח המרד ע"י מערכת החינוך וע"י גורמים ציוניים כמו יגאל ידין. מתי להתחיל?--Gilisa 08:50, 14 June 2007 (UTC) :הערך הוא Bar Kochba's revolt. תבדוק אותו בינתיים ואת דף השיחה אולי. נדבר על זה יותר מחר, כי אני צריך לזוז אוטוטו. nadav (talk) 09:31, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

תשמע, גם אני קצת קצר בזמן בימים אלו, בכל אופן-לא התעמקתי לא במאמר ולא בדף השיחה שלו-אם כי לחצתי על ההפניה מדף השיחה לערך : "ההיסטוריה של האנטישמיות" [4] ולדעתי הערך הזה לא משקף טוב את הדעות בעולם האקדמיה, במובן הזה שהוא מבטא יותר את הדעות הפחות קונצסזואליות ופחות את הזרם המרכזי. רוב החוקרים, למיטב ידיעתי, באופן מבוסס מייחסים את הופעתה של האנטישמיות כתפיסת עולם שאינה מוגבלת לסכסוך נקודתי למאה ה4 לספירת הנוצרים, ובשל פעולותיהם של "אבות הכנסיה"-ויחסי העוינות עם היוונים אינם נכללים במלוא מובן המילה בהגדרת "אנטישמיות", גם אם אכן הייתה כזאת. עוד, היחסים של היהודים עם העם הרומאי היו טובים מאוד עד למרד עצמו.--Gilisa 06:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC) :וואלה, לא סמתי לב להודעה הזאת. כן, אז אם תיתן לי טקסט (עם מקורות) אז אני אשמח לתרגמו ולשלבו יפה בערך. אם כי, אני חייב להודות שלא יהיה לי הרבה משלי להוסיף (זה לא ממש התחום שלי). nadav (talk) 08:32, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Altmann

Thanks for the help Nadav. I will try to remember which book it came from and add the details. —Dfass 13:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The Value of Dispute

Nadav1, Regarding the dispute over the fair use of the image of Peter Nordin with 3 robots in The Humanoid Project: We have discussed the criteria for fair use and the fair use / fair use tags appear to be sufficient. I have indicated that the image is of historical importance and that the image cannot be replaced, etc. etc. What is the value of adding a replaceable image tag and a dispute replaceable image tag that merely repeats the discussion? Rogerfgay 09:19, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Other people disagree with you. I told you before that if the image is not released under a free license, then I will re-add the replaceable tag. In the meantime, I also consulted with someone else and he also believed it to be replaceable. You can contest the claim by following the procedure that's explained on the tag. Removing it, though, is vandalism, which you don't want to do. nadav (talk) 09:24, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I have added the dispute tag. Can you remove the comments under the image on the "Peter Nordin" page that gives notice of the dispute with instructions? Rogerfgay 09:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

This edit

This edit amuses me, considering it was me who re-added the grandfather policy and then tweaked the date. -N 18:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

My mistake, sorry about the revert. I don't know anything about the grandfather policy. nadav (talk) 23:32, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I just said it was amusing, since I realized you made a mistake. It makes little practical difference either way, so I'm not going to change back. -N 23:46, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Nadav, I am very touched. Thank you for the Barnstar. Actually, I had to go look it up, as I never knew what those stars were about...I've been working on the El Al article, bit by bit (in the middle of work, so I can't do it all at once). I was wondering if there shouldn't be a picture of the aircraft used today at the top of the infobox, above or below the logo, to jazz the page up a little. Do you think the current logo should appear twice (both on top and lower down?)--Gilabrand 07:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I assume there's some sort of standard among WP:AIRLINE articles about the infobox. You should raise this this point on the El Al talk page. I myself have not been too involved with the article; I just did a little copy editing and "consulting" work for Flymeoutofhere, who I think has worked on it more extensively. nadav (talk) 07:35, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Lead Paragraphs

RE: Your recent edit of Peter Nordin. The Wikipedia style guidelines do not make a lead paragraph mandatory. It is intended to summarize information in longer articles. If you feel the page needs a lead paragraph, it seems to me that it would have been appropriate for you to have suggested it on the discussion page. I'm sure that I've read that particular suggestion on editing somewhere in the Wikipedia guidelines. Just jumping in and making such dramatic edits could simply lead to excessive editing and debate by a group of editors with different views on style (all within guidelines).

Help me please

Many thanks for telling me what to do about the Bliss TV logo for use in the Bliss (TV channel) article. Now I have uploaded it can you help me choose what copyright tag I need to select.

Many thanks Senna Senna123 21:45, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

"clarify" template at well-order

Hi Nadav,

could you specify what it is that you feel is unclear? --Trovatore 20:19, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I added it at first because I wasn't sure I was interpreting the text correctly, but now I've removed it since it looks like I was reading it right after all (in line with the ref desk explanation that is) [5] nadav (talk) 23:18, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

As explained at constructible universe#L can be well-ordered, the whole constructible universe is well-ordered by a formula. And thus, if V=L, then the universe of all sets is so well-ordered. It follows that the elements of any particular set such as the set of real numbers are also well-ordered by that formula. JRSpriggs 09:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the link! This is fascinating and surprising. I plan to read this in depth. nadav (talk) 09:39, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

You are welcome. Let me know if you have any questions about it. JRSpriggs 10:52, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Translation update

Can you, when you get the chance, update the Hebrew text on my user page in accordance with this change? Thanks in advance. -- tariqabjotu 22:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Image:TrichogastermicrolepisMoonlightgourami.jpg and Image:SnakesskingouramiTrichogasterpectoralis.jpg

These images currently cannot be used on Wikipedia. The first criterion for allowing non-free (non-free means copyrighted but not released under a free license) images on Wikipedia is that no free equivalent exists or could be created. Since these are images of things found in nature, someone else could take a picture of them and release it as free content. (See WP:NONFREE)

There's a chance that the copyright holder of these images is willing to release them under a free license, which would allow them to be used on Wikipedia. To ask him, follow the procedure at WP:COPYREQ. I believe owner of the images is Johnny Jensen. Best, nadav (talk) 06:26, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

- Thank you for your assistance and reply. Just one more query. If I am able to get permission via email, where should I post the copy of this email and where to forward a copy for wikipedia? Can I post it on the talk pages of the above images. Then, what tag to use after getting permission? Kindly reply on my talk page again? Regards. Dragonbite 17:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Joshua Prawer

The article Joshua Prawer you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. It hasn't failed because it's basically a good article, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Joshua Prawer for things needed to be addressed.

Psych less 23:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

El Al

Hi Nadav, it's taken a while, but I have gone over the whole article. I think it sounds more like English now. I know I suggested removing the newest logo because it also appears on top, but now I'm not sure.--Gilabrand 06:09, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Money on Commons

As far as I can tell they think calling money copyrighted on Commons is copyright paranoia. -N 00:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Completed it

I should have just left a message, but you only reverted part of the edit, so I completed it. Tewfik^Talk 08:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

ok. I should have looked at the diff. I also gave him a 3RR warning, so I hope we're done with this for now. nadav (talk) 08:49, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Should I fill out a 3RR report? I don't know whether it's worth it since it's an IP... nadav (talk) 08:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I got him here, though you may want to comment to speed up any blocks. While it isn't always effective to block dynamic IPs, this one seems static and has other types of warnings, so a block would be effective in stopping the disruption (unless he starts socking, but that can be dealt with as well). Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 08:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the note

I reviewed your changes to the article about the Israeli foundation. It is now clearly above the deletion threshold. Good work! And thanks for the barnstar. Best regards. Shalom ^Hello 14:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Etymological Section on Jerusalem

If we were to collaborate on an update to this, I would suggest the earliest references to this place as a special place probably begin with the Amarna letters which are written on clay tablets in Akkadian. The Biblical references beginning Joshua 3 in the Bible occur during the period of the Conquest contemporary with or slightly before the Amarna letters and name a king adonai zedeck.

[Replaced excerpt with link for copyright reasons]

The transition from Akkadian URU Uru Šalaam KI to Jerusalem would occur after c 1350 BC maintaining the same semitic roots but losing the gramatic markers and determinative for place.Rktect 13:13, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

This is interesting, but it's merely about the history of the Israelite conquest. It doesn't discuss the origins and meaning of the word "Jerusalem." The origin of the word is not Akkadian, but probably Amorite or otherwise Canaanite, no? nadav (talk) 14:46, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The origin of the word is Akkadian. The dating helps both [historically] and [linguistically] because you can see that [akkadian] and [amorite] are used in different periods and the earliest references to jerusalem in Abraham are c 1850 (Old Babylonian) while [the Amarna letters] are c 1350 BC which would be middle Babylonian.Rktect 02:05, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. This is one hill in a city of hills and valleys. It lies just south of the present day Old City, under the shadow of the Haram al-Sharif east of the 1967 armistice lines. Archaeological ﬁnds on this hill have been dated as far back as the Chalcolithic era, 4,000 BCE, or 6,000 years ago, and are commonly understood to be the site of the earliest settlement of Jerusalem.
[The early settlement], like so many other communities, was planted here to access water. Ein al-Hilweh, or Gihon Spring, is Jerusalem’s only perennial source of water and runs into Wadi al-Hilweh, or the Kidron Valley. That valley runs between the two hills that form the neighbourhood of Silwan, one of which is the one we are standing on.
The ﬁrst known permanent settlements here have been dated to approximately 1800 BCE. The evolution from small settlement to city can be traced in Egyptian texts, the Execration Texts, which list cities in the area, as well as their rulers. There are two mentions of Jerusalem. They remain the only known references to Jerusalem in the early period.7

In Egypts 18th Dynasty Jerusalem was a fortified well known locally by traders as URU Uru Šalaam KI. The Egyptian Garrison probably used something closer to KI dron (Gi hon) or place of water to make a sacred bread and beer; colloguially "the brewery" but really a place of sacred thanksgiving

Rituals are important in Zoroastrianism. They establish a connection between the material and spiritual universes. Food plays a part in rituals, as a thanksgiving to God and as a symbol of fellowship created through sharing of material bounty. There are certain foods that are symbolic of the various creations of Ahura Mazda and are therefore regarded as being superior and thus suitable for use in religious rituals and ceremonies. These include bread (dron), milk, water, ghee, rice, dates, and pomegranates. Dron is an unleavened bread made from wheat flour and ghee. It may be prepared only by a member of a priestly family. During the preparation of the bread the words humata, hukhta, hvarshta (good thoughts, good words, good deeds) are intoned three times, accompanied by placing a mark on the bread, for a total of nine marks. This bread of life is a source of spiritual strength. Haoma (hom) juice extracted from the haoma plant is used in a number of rituals. It contains a mild narcotic.

What once was Wadi H' ilwah = valley of celebration and thanksgiving to

English god

Proto Semitic *ʼil-

Akkadian (āh)- il-

Arabic ʼilāh-

Hebrew ʼēl-(ôh)-

Syriac ʼalāh-ā

Phoenician el

is celebrated differently today Rktect 11:37, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Crowning moments

Greetings. I'm contacting you because you have experience in dealing with our non-free content policy as it pertains to images. A so-far unresolved issue deals with "crowning moments" for beauty pageant contestants. This specific issue is heated because of previous disputes between the aptly named User:PageantUpdater and the obscurely named User:Abu badali, but the same issue could apply to many other classes of images as well. All parties have made their cases adequately, but consensus is still elusive, so the issue remains open long after other problems have been resolved. Could you go to Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2007_June_18#Image:MissUSA2007Crowned.jpg and give your opinion? It would really help us to finish this issue and move on. Thanks! – Quadell ^{(talk) (random)} 18:47, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
(This message was copied to several other image-wonks at the same time.)

Elvina (robot)

You missed one. -N 21:21, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you do the merge? I'm restoring talk page messages Rogerfgay deleted. nadav (talk) 21:24, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Apparently there was nothing to merge. The robot wasn't a first of anything or an anything special according to the stub. -N 21:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Lol. nadav (talk) 21:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Have you guys considered that it might be disruptive of you to make substantive judgements in subject areas in which you have no knowledge? I note also that even fictional robots have their own pages. --Rogerfgay 08:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Robot Changes

If you want to make major editing changes to my work, like redirecting pages, please talk with me about them first. I do think about what I'm doing before doing it. I understand your thinking however. I agree that the redirect is not a bad idea and I might leave it that way for the time being (instead of stubs). There are at least mentions of the three robots on the page that you've redirected to. But Wikipedia currently contains many pages on individual robots, and it's growing. That seems to be the way it's done. A page for each robot is just consistent, and I can see why that makes sense. See for example, Humanoid_robots#See_also for a list that contains a bunch of humanoid robots. --Rogerfgay 08:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The standard practice is to revert if you disagree and then start discussion. I had no way of knowing that you find this controversial; I just assumed you hadn't considered the use of redirects. I am just trying to improve the articles I come across. Remember that if you post something on Wikipedia, you must accept that it will be edited mercilessly (of course, you can revert and edit mercilessly also as long as policy is followed). There is no requirement to tell the page author before making an edit. Concerning consistency, we should strive to make things consistently good, and not appeal to the current state of mediocrity. nadav (talk) 08:57, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

For some reason, you've chosen to watch my work. If you're going to continue that, I'm asking that you take into consideration that I think about what I'm doing before doing it. Besides that; contrary to your statements above, it is suggested that you comment on the talk page and even discuss before making edits - especially major edits. Otherwise, you run the risk of causing disruption. The practice of moving, redirecting, and otherwise making major edits on pages that you have not constructed (and sometimes even if you have), without discussion is definitely not encouraged to say the least. It can amount to vandalism. --Rogerfgay 11:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

BTW: I have reverted in other situations, and started discussion on talk pages (but think the agressing editor should in some cases be responsible for selling their own POV rather than forcing me to the defensive). N and W.marsh (for example) just start revert wars; demanding that their decisions are followed while discussion takes place - then simply refusing to accept anything but their own POV. --Rogerfgay 11:22, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

See Talk:Banhammer for a counter example. And I don't believe I've directly reverted anything you've done. An edit war consists of more than just a single revert. Please provide diffs proving I've repeatedly reverted you. -N 21:15, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Nadav1, please read these.

HEROD THE GREAT:

AN ARABIC KING OF ISRAEL

http://www.maat.it/livello2-i/erode-i.htm

The Arabs in the south, and south-east were constantly connected with Palestine throughout its history. Some authorities even go to the length of saying that the Canaanites were Arabs. The Idumeans, the Moabites, and the Nabathaeans were more Arab than anything else, and these had a great deal to do with the history of Palestine under the Jews, the Greeks, and the Romans. Herodes I, commonly known as Herod the Great, King of the Jews, was an Arab. The Arabs were known to have carried out an extensive trade between the Red Sea and the Mediterranean, across the Sinai Peninsula, and from Aila or Elath to Gaza. One of the ancestors of the Prophet, Hashim ibn Abd-Manaf, is buried in Gaza(3). The second Caliph of Islam, ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, was taken prisoner at Gaza in one of the trade missions before Islam, ‘because it (Palestine) was the route for the people of Hejaz’ [p. 94, Chrestomatha Arabica by Arnold, London, 1853]. Even the Prophet himself is said to have passed through the same route, and some Christian authorities claim that the Prophet, on one of his commercial journeys, met, at a monastery in Sinai, a Christian monk who initiated him into a certain version of the Christian religion.

http://www.isesco.org.ma/pub/Eng/Holypalestine/CH2.htm

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_first_arabs.php

Almaqdisi ^{talk to me} 23:08, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Calling all these nations Arab is about as correct as calling all West Semitic people Arab. Were the Jews also Arab? The word loses all meaning when you start calling Canaanites Arab, and the word "Arab" only appeared more than 1500 years later. Yes, there were some Arabs in Byzantine Palestine prior to the conquest, and it is proven that there was much trade with Arabia. But keep in mind that the great majority of people were Christian Byzantines who spoke Greek or Syriac (there was also a significant minority of Jews, and others e.g. Samaritans who spoke other dialects of Aramaic). How are you defining Arab? nadav (talk) 23:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Nadav1.. There are two issues here that keeps mixed up. Whether Canaanites were Arabs?... Surely they were Arabians (extending from the Arabian Peninsula), but this might not be considered an Arab in the modern context known today. But they are a form of the early and ancient tribes of Arabia... Moreover, Palestine, for the most part, with the Syrian desert has been considered by Greek writers to be part of Arabia. Check the Greek scripts... Another issue, which is the one really related to the article at hand is that whether Palestinians, those who live today in Palestine particularly the Peasants, are indeed related to the populations that have existed in Palestine's ancient history, i.e. from the Canaanite period until this day, including the Semitic Jews... Most anthropologists who studied that, agree that the Peasants of Palestine, fallahin, are indigenous.. Unlike many Palestinians in cities who mixed with other people from differnet places... The peasants protected the Canaanite names of their villages and their heritage and so on. Now this information is really useful for the article and it makes no sense to remove it... Also, B. Lewis does not disagree with this point. He only legitamitly discusses whether the Canaanites are Arabs in the form known today.. But he still emphasizes that some of people of Palestine are indeed related to the populations existing since antiquity... Personally, I think there is one "Adam", the father of all men... So I do not see any contradictions here...

On another separate note.. I noticed that the history of Arabs and Arabians in Palestine is wrongly associated with Islam... This is not true.... Because Canaanites came from Arabia, they were not Jews, Nabateans also were Arabic/Aramaic, same goes to other Kingdoms like the Ghassanids... And moreover, with the Jews, side by side, many Arabs lived under the Roman rule... The Arabic language was very popular by the time Islam appeared in inner Arabia.... Already at that time, Arabic was spoken in Palestine and Syria the same way it was spoken in Mecca... Arab mershants from Mecca were communicating in the same language with those in the Levant area... The Patriarch whom Umar Bin al-Khattab met when he entered Jerusalem was a Christian Arab too. I mean Bishop Sophronius (himself of Arab descent)!! I do think we can work together again on this article... This is not really about politics because we are having enough of that, this is about relevant sourced information.. This is aboout enriching readers with verifiable information... This is not about propoganda... Please, we can save ourselves time on this by cooperating on this... I have read B. Lewis book, Philip Hitti book, and there is no contradiction whatsoever in all this information... There is consensus on this issue.

Almaqdisi ^{talk to me} 01:02, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Moonlight gourami image

In relation to Image:TrichogastermicrolepisMoonlightgourami.jpg and Image:SnakesskingouramiTrichogasterpectoralis.jpg

Hi there, Nadav. I was able to secure permission from a flickr user to use her image per her image below. So what's the tag to use. Thanks again. Now, where should I send a copy of her emailed reply (and perhaps the copy of the email I sent her?) Can't wait to post the image? I'll be uploading it by her credit-ing her. Right now, I am just waiting for a response from another who has snakeskin gourami image. Dragonbite 01:32, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Nadav

Well done, there may be a campaign of wiki-stalking building up. Did you realise your e-mail is not engaged? I think you have to go to preferences and click a further two boxes to make it happen. PalestineRemembered 15:09, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean about wiki-stalking. I prefer not to enable my email address for various reasons. One of them is that I prefer all communication (except perhaps Mediation cases and such) to be carried out in the open. nadav (talk) 05:12, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

RFC=

I actually don't know if an RFC has been filed, but it can't hurt to file another one, for both the main page and the court case page. Sigh... --Cberlet 16:08, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Photo Issue with Cisco's

Hi, I don't really see a place where you could take a photo of an actual runningpiece of equipement that costs over a million dollars. ISP really are not interested in letting you in to take a photo of thier secure location. Cisco CRS-1 for example. These photos are all from glossy prints from advertising material. Could you please explain to me the issue. I even called SnapServer up to make sure it was ok with them and Cisco as well. Could you please explain? I could remove the photo from the articles but it is nice to see what the articles are talking about. --akc9000 ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 16:32, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I replied on the Media Copyright questions page. nadav (talk) 05:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)