User talk:MisterCake/Archive 4

1915 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article 1915 Vanderbilt Commodores football team has been completed.

One minor point needs clarification. In the section on Auburn you write: "Next was the Auburn game, which McGugin had been pointing to since before the season began." Why did McGugin point to this specific game? Perhaps a word or two of explanation would be helpful.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Kind regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 19:42, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your work. Unfortunately, Traughber does not elaborate, but one can assume it was due to Auburn being 1913 and 1914 SIAA champion. Cake (talk) 20:25, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Couple categorization items

Cake, appreciate all your editing as allows. Couple small things I want to nag you about. First, watch the categories on those Division III football team navboxes, e.g. Template:Lake Forest Foresters football navbox. Don't forget "football" in Category:NCAA Division III football team navigational boxes. Also, on new articles like 1882 Fordham Rams football team, can try not to forget the basic categories like both "Category:YYYY college football season" and "Category:XXX YYY football seasons"? Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 03:49, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Early Colorado football seasons

Cake and @UW Dawgs: I see you've both been working on building out the early Colorado football seasons when they were known as the "Silver and Gold". We've got a bit of a fork brewing between your edits. I'm not sure if it should be "Silver and Gold" or "Silver & Gold", but you can see we have duplicates at Category:Colorado Buffaloes football seasons. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 03:53, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Maybe Sam the Snowman can weigh in. Lizard (talk) 04:01, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Working independently, but in parallel. I had updated the early years in Template:Colorado Buffaloes football navbox to the "Silver and Gold" link format from redlinked "Silver & Gold", then left my reasoning on Template talk:Colorado Buffaloes football navbox. Silver & Gold is/was the name of the school paper and the cubuffs.com article specifically uses "and" rather than sytlized "&". UW Dawgs (talk) 04:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

I just AfD speedy'd the "Silver and Gold" redirects, which when processed will allow a clean move of the "Silver & Gold" versions to the equivalent "Silver and Gold" locations (and preserves the edit history, rather than simply a dirty copy-and-paste "move"). UW Dawgs (talk) 15:04, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks UW. I seem to have real trouble deciding between an ampersand and just "and" when it comes to e. g. Washington and Lee, when both "washington and lee" and "W&L" are used quite often. PS check out James Kay Thomas's football fob and letterman's sweater Cake (talk) 15:54, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Done, now. Understood/agreed, "Silver and Gold" is lightly sourced and I debated entirely striking the nickname (as seen in other team articles of the era prior to formal adoption of a nick), but was swayed to include. Cheers, UW Dawgs (talk) 16:08, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Glenn Scobey?

It just occurred to me that the page name for the individual is Glenn Scobey Warner, and Pop Warner is a disambiguation page. Per WP:COMMONNAME, shouldn't the page for the individual be named "Pop Warner"? I can't imagine he was ever more well known as Glenn Scobey Warner than he was as Pop Warner. Hell, the NFF lists his given AND his nickname as Pop. Lizard (talk) 01:50, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

I've thought the same, but then how to deal with the pee-wee football league? Cake (talk) 02:16, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

My first thought was to have a Pop Warner (disambiguation) page, and have searches for "Pop Warner" direct to that article. Then I realized I was an idiot. Obviously, when your average person hears "Pop Warner" they think of the pee-wee football league. But it would be ridiculous to have, say, a Pop Warner (American football coach) article when there's only one other (extremely less notable) person "Pop Warner" could refer to. The fact that the pee-wee league article is titled Pop Warner Little Scholars helps our case here. And the fact that the page views for Glenn Scobey are more than triple the views for the pee-wee league in the last 5 months. To be honest though, I'd list this at WP:RM if only to see how a situation like this is dealt with. Lizard (talk) 02:45, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Would have to be RM either way, but I've done it. Cake (talk) 20:03, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Samford Bulldogs quarterback navbox

Template:Samford Bulldogs quarterback navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. UCO2009bluejay (talk) 00:28, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Cake especially since this is one of your creations. I would withdraw my nomination, if you can provide a couple notable players, and have articles for them.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 00:28, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Added some, though I understand. Samford ain't easy. Fisher and Bowden were big enough that I figured it was needed. Cake (talk) 20:02, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Spring Hill Badgers football navbox

Template:Spring Hill Badgers football navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 20:31, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Phillips Haymakers football navbox

Template:Phillips Haymakers football navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 20:33, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Documenting page copies and splits on talk pages

Hi there. FYI, you should formally document page copies / splits on talk pages, using {{Split article}} or {{Copied}}. I've added the latter (as it seems like the former is still being worked on after a TfD for previous templates) to Talk:Georgia Bulldogs football and Talk:History of Georgia Bulldogs football. It doesn't matter that much exactly which template is used, as long as it records the split / copy accurately, for copyright attribution purposes. Thanks. Murph9000 (talk) 07:22, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. No experience with those templates. I tried to leave edit summaries noting the content was copied. Cake (talk) 10:04, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, a clear edit summary (including a link to the previous article) is certainly good practice, and technically all that is needed (as a minimum) for license compliance. Don't stop doing that bit of it. The talk page stuff just makes it easy for everyone in the future. Thanks. Murph9000 (talk) 12:01, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Union Bulldogs football

Before you change the redirect again, can you first pay attention to the problems the chance is making? It creates a lot of links to disambiguation pages that are often hard or even (with my knowledge) impossible to solve. Thanks in advance. The Banner talk 11:47, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't think I get it. There are two Union Bulldogs. Those 1920s football teams are talking about playing the ones in Tennessee, hence I am upset that you are a stickler for the redirect to Kentucky. Cake (talk) 01:29, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

With the disambiguation page, you create problems elsewhere. For example in Template:1927 SIAA football standings and Template:1926 SIAA football standings. What I ask you to do is make sure that after the creation of the disambig page you solve the incorrect links. Although I am quite experienced in solving links to disambiguation pages, I failed to master them. So now it is up to you to solve that. From the 1926 template (the other is the same but with other numbers). {{CFB Standings Entry|{{cfb link|year=1926|team=Union Bulldogs|title=Union}}|0|2|0|0|2|0}} Good luck. The Banner talk 09:50, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

The Banner, thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'm working on sorting this all out. I've set up redirects to the two Union Bulldogs teams: Union (Kentucky) Bulldogs football and Union (Tennessee) Bulldogs football. Cake, check out my edit at 1942 Vanderbilt Commodores football team. This is how we should be wikilinking and noting the Union Bulldogs of Tennessee. Jweiss11 (talk) 18:50, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks to the both of you. Hope some worries are fixed. Cake (talk) 20:31, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

2016 game in the UT/UF article

If you agree with waiting to add the 2016 game to the article, could you jump in to help revert the IP editors who keep adding it back? I'm on the edge of a 3RR violation myself. Thanks... --Zeng8r (talk) 01:10, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

We'll see if my last edit helps. Cake (talk) 01:21, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Left/right

The left halfback lines up left of the fullback in the T when facing the line of scrimmage, right? Or is it the other way around? Lizard (talk) 15:58, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, aside from fancy shifts the left halfback is to the left of the right halfback, or vice versa. So, in a T, the fullback is in between. Left from the offense's perspective, just like say the left guard. Perhaps you are trying to torture me by forcing me to link to the 1914 Vols. Cake (talk) 19:20, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I was asking so I could be sure my fancy graphic I just made for Million Dollar Backfield is accurate. Lizard (talk) 20:33, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Looks good. I didn't know the NFL had its own Four Horsemen. A hand-off to Perry the usual play call? Cake (talk) 20:38, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Everyone was equally likely to get the ball on any given play. In '54, Perry led the league in rushing, Johnson was second in the league, and McElhenny was 8th despite playing only 6 games (he averaged 8.0 yards per carry). And then the Niners eventually released all of them and they all went on to have the best years of their careers with other teams. Can't imagine that GM lasted very long. Lizard (talk) 20:53, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

I might consider picking this up. Co-authored by Bill Walsh, can't go wrong. Poor Tittle; even on the cover of a book about his 49ers days, he's still depicted as the bloody old man with the Giants. Lizard (talk) 01:41, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

That's probably what sold the book. Walsh is many-a-man's favorite. Cake (talk) 12:17, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

It's funny, Perry credited Johnson's blocking for his success, and McElhenny credited Perry's blocking for his. Guess that's what happens when your team runs 2 fullbacks. No wonder McElhenny averaged 8 yards per carry, he was hardly ever touched by the time he went that far. Lizard (talk) 17:06, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Sounds like the right lineup for a jump shift. Cake (talk) 17:08, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

DYK for 1928 Florida Gators football team

On 28 September 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article 1928 Florida Gators football team, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the 1928 Florida Gators football team scored 336 points led by its "Phantom Four" backfield, which included Clyde Crabtree who could pass and kick with either hand or foot? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/1928 Florida Gators football team. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, 1928 Florida Gators football team), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:02, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Season categories

Cake, don't forget season categories for new season articles. Also see my edits at 1939 Nevada Wolf Pack football team for the proper way to note conferences that later changed names in infoboxes. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 02:42, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Pop Warner

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Pop Warner you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of MWright96 -- MWright96 (talk) 20:00, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

DYK for 1928 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team

On 2 October 2016, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article 1928 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in honor of Georgia Tech's 1929 Rose Bowl victory, running back Stumpy Thomason was given a bear cub by a local businessman, which he drove around Atlanta and fed Coca-Cola? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/1928 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, 1928 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 07:26, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Pop Warner

The article Pop Warner you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Pop Warner for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of MWright96 -- MWright96 (talk) 17:00, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi

You can use "WP CFB" for quickly tagging the talk pages. It's shorter than "WP College football". WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 21:44, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

1930 Alabama Crimson Tide football team

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article 1930 Alabama Crimson Tide football team has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Kind regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 13:18, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Thank you twofingered. Don't think I've used the "ProveIt" gadget. Cake (talk) 03:01, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

It's a useful tool. Twofingered Typist (talk)

Nomination of Spinner play for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Spinner play is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spinner play until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Aru@baska^{❯❯❯ Vanguard} 17:49, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

...that was fast. Cake (talk) 17:56, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Pop Warner

The article Pop Warner you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Pop Warner for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of MWright96 -- MWright96 (talk) 19:41, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

1930 Alabama football

Hi Cake! Firstly, thanks for the additional expansion and if there is anything I can help with on getting this, or other Bama articles to GA, please let me know! Haven't been as active lately plodding through old Bama stuff, but am very happy to see someone else take interest in the greatest tradition in all of college football! RTR!!! To your questions, I have no issue with altering the the format of the roster similar to that of the 1922 Vandy assuming you have a reliable source that can be cited for it. Heck, if you have sources for that additional information, please feel free to add it to as many Bama articles as you can!! As for pictures, I do not have any good solutions for this issue as the digital Corolla yearbooks does not include a 1930-31 edition. Patriarca12 (talk) 22:28, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

I try to research early southern college football (1890-1932, more or less). Would like to give Centre and Alabama similar treatments as Georgia Tech or Vandy or Florida for the notable years. For Centre, 1917-1924. For Bama, probably 1922-1930. '25 and '26, at least, looking more like '30 would be a big help. Wade, Crisp, Hewitt, and Neely is quite the staff. Even the refs (Ducote, Strupper) are legends. Cake (talk) 00:07, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Reynolds Tichenor

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Reynolds Tichenor has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Kind regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 13:21, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks again Typist. I added a space after a colon which didn't have one. Other than that it's nice. Tick's a bit of an enigma, seems likes the South's Walter Eckersall. Cake (talk)

Copy edit done

P.S. Your talk page is rather large. Have you considered starting to archive it? --Stfg (talk) 22:35, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! Yes, just not sure of how to archive it, or whether to delete it, or what the usual policy is here and have been lazy or ashamed in finding out. PS If interested in a listen or (here) Cake (talk) 02:33, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

You're very welcome. Help:Archiving a talk page gives the low-down on that. Cheers, --Stfg (talk) 09:12, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Dahuting Tomb murals, Chinese Eastern Han period (25-220 AD)

I just uploaded all of these to Wikimedia! And have used them in several articles thus far.

The Dahuting Tomb (Chinese: 打虎亭汉墓, Pinyin: Dahuting Han mu) of the late Eastern Han Dynasty (25-220 AD), located in Zhengzhou, Henan province, China, was excavated in 1960-1961 and contains vault-arched burial chambers decorated with murals showing scenes of daily life, with banquet scenes, dancers with musicians playing, court women flaunting their hairstyles, war chariots and cavalry riding to battle, mythological scenes with creatures such as dragons, etc. Pericles of Athens^Talk 14:21, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

In regards to one of the woman in the first row, is that a glass cup she's holding? That's interesting, considering how prized Roman glass was in Han China at the time, considered a foreign luxury item. It certainly looks like a shiny, transparent ware of some kind (I can't think of any other material they would have that would fit the bill...I don't think it's jade, either).

Also, you should consider archiving some of the top of the stuff on your talk page here. It takes a good amount of time just to scroll down to the bottom of your talk page! For a working model on how to archive stuff, you could look at my talk page, for instance. Cheers. ;) Pericles of Athens^Talk 14:21, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Hopefully not so much scrolling now. Interesting stuff Pericles, but a bit at a loss why you would ask me! Outside of the beginning of Turner's History of Philosophy and the first volume in Will Durant's history series I know nothing about China. Though I've heard before that glass in China didn't really exist, and I dig the orange and black palette. "Return injury with justice" has me say I'd probably like Confucius. It does look like glass. Certainly something light and perhaps shiny. I saw Johnbod guess silver, which seems plausible. My first guess aside from glass was marble. Though it doesn't look like a vessel where marble is particularly good, it also looks carried too non-chalant-ly for glass. Cake (talk) 16:44, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, the orange and black stuff is lacquerware. I'm not familiar with the Chinese using marble at all! Odd enough, considering how it was such a prestigious and valued item in the Greco-Roman world, yet there were no quarries for it in China. They did have plenty of jade, though, and even though they produced some of their own glass, none of this was of the transparent quality that the Romans manufactured. Locally-made Chinese glass was typically opaque, for starters, and I've never seen anything beyond beads and bowls in terms of native Chinese glasswares. On the other hand, the Romans produced a variety of glass beakers, cups, vases, bowls, etc. For instance, the Bagram glass hoard of Afghanistan, containing a rich variety of Roman glasswares with painted decorations of scenes such as gladiators fighting. In either case thanks for the input! I thought you might be interested in it and I wasn't going to assume you had no knowledge about the subject (given your demonstrable interest in artwork). Cheers. Pericles of Athens^Talk 17:00, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Like the Qianlong Emperor cup and the Han dynasty tray. Surprised they had no marble quarries. I would be surprised if it was jade with the seeming lack of green pigment, but then I have seen appraisers check to see if their jade was transparent. If it is glass, it looks like you've found the image for the Chinese role-playing as Romans role-playing as Greeks. What is going on in the first image of a dancer? Blowing a salpinx over a hearth it looks like. Cake (talk) 18:11, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

That is a very good question about the Greco-Roman salpinx! Especially because the Chinese had the Suona (a double-reed horn) by the Jin dynasty (265-420), which almost certainly came from Iranian-speaking Central Asia as far as its design and etymology is concerned. It's thus the second item in these paintings that one could perhaps identify as a "Western" object. As for marble, it's not that it didn't exist in China historically or now (think of the marble used in the 15th-century Forbidden City, for instance, or even the later Marble Boat), yet I don't think the Chinese had quarries for it as far back as the Han period. I simply do not think Chinese architecture utilized marble at the time, since the Han architecture (that which survives) that I've seen is made out of stone, brick, and rammed earth, with ceramic roof tiles littering archaeological sites, indicating how they once covered their long lost wooden halls and towers. Pericles of Athens^Talk 18:30, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

I don't know much about Eastern music, but the rose-like tip sure reminds me of a salpinx, like say here. Spengler makes a lot out of how Greece has wood temples, or marble ones with triglyphs, and cremated their dead; while Egypt has the ever-lasting diorite and pyramids and mummies. He saw the Chinese outlook as similar to the Egyptian. Cake (talk) 21:11, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Think someone needed to hem the sleeves of the second dancer. Cake (talk) 21:48, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Lol. Yeah, I think that was the exaggerative style of the day. Come to think of it, that preferred length (i.e. much more than was needed) pretty much persisted for the rest of Chinese dynastic history, even after the abandonment of Hanfu and adoption of the Manchu wear. Pericles of Athens^Talk 00:35, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

DYK for Pop Warner

Gatoclass (talk) 00:01, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Hellenistic art article and use of multiple images

(1)

(2)

(3)

From left to right:
(1) Hypnos and Thanatos carrying the body of Sarpedon from the battlefield of Troy; detail from an Attic white-ground lekythos, ca. 440 BC;
(2) a red-figure pottery (terracotta) "kerch" style lekythos depicting a nymph and satyr playing a game of knucklebones, with two Eros figures (standing between Aphrodite) offering laurel wreaths of victory to the nymph and to a youth, c. 350 BC;
(3) a lekythos in Gnathia style with Eros depicted playing with a ball, Apulian vase painting, third quarter of the 4th century BC

Hi MisterCake! I've noticed you've been very busy once again with the Hellenistic art page. It's looking great! You've certainly found a lot of excellent images. However, before you proceed further, consider stacking some images in a "multiple image" format, because the body of the article is starting to look rather cluttered. The galleries are fine, but the amount of images wrapped around the paragraphs might become overwhelming if you add any more. The "multiple image" format allows you to neatly stack images in a horizontal row, allowing for more space. It's actually a nifty, convenient tool for showcasing artwork while at the same time avoiding clutter and bombardment of the reader with one giant image after another. Take for instance this mutliple image stack I've recently added to Ancient Greek vase painting. Give it some thought before adding further images. Cheers. Pericles of Athens^Talk 05:12, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

In fact, been aware of those since someone was kind enough to go through Bo McMillin's article. Hard to know when not to add images to an art article, or when to stack them. For instance, why did you choose the three above? Been mostly trying to source the article with what was given and add images as expansion permits. I wish someone had the book by Havelock, for I don't and it's not open access. Think it would be the biggest step in removing the lack of inline-citations hatnote. Cake (talk) 06:42, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

I chose the three images randomly from among lekythos images at Wikimedia Commons, just to demonstrate one area of ancient Greek pottery (from a wide geographical range spanning from Attica to Apulia, to show that production centers of these items were also spread out across the ancient Mediterranean where different styles prevailed). Do you think they are bad examples somehow? In either case, it's just something to keep in mind as you add more and more images, where sooner or later it will become unwieldy and stacking one on top of the other will start to mess with the gallery below. I think it also goes against WP:MOS to have repeated images flanking each other on left and right of the text (which it calls "sandwiching"). It's not terribly important, but if the article was to ever be submitted as a GA or an FA candidate, these concerns would certainly be brought up by other editors. Cheers. Pericles of Athens^Talk 07:23, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Ah, I see if you wanted to depict the geographic range of Attic pottery. Not often you see lekythos given focus instead of an amphora or krater or kylix. The white-ground one is nice (lots of white lekythos (several with women) for whatever reason, and hard to complain about a depiction from the Trojan war). I fear the "kerch" and the ball player (wonder if that's what a "sphairistes" looked like) being a bit esoteric for the first images in the article. One would expect something like the Dipylon Master for the geometric period, something by Exekias in black-figure, something by say the Berlin Painter in red-figure, and the white-ground one of Apollo by the Pistoxenos Painter or the maenad by the Brygos Painter. PS We have no image of the obverse of the The Revelers Vase, the famous part. Cake (talk) 07:41, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

The Archaic period saw a shift in styles of pottery decoration from the repeating patterns of the geometric period, through the eastern-influenced orientalizing style to the more representational black-figure and red-figure techniques.

Very good points. Feel free to change certain images if you think others should be highlighted instead. I just thought it was vital to show at least one Apulian example among that bunch, to show the variety and geographic dispersion. On another note, check out this multiple image stack in the Archaic Greece article. It's really cool how this is arranged! If you click to edit the page, you can see how this is done. I was only aware that you could do the "perrow" function (i.e. strict number of columns) for the "image array" template found in infoboxes or for galleries like the one we have in Hellenistic art. Apparently you can also do it for the "multiple image" template. See how we have four separate images here, with two stacked on top and two at the bottom? It's really useful! I'm going to have to utilize this in the future. I've been wondering if this was even possible for quite a while now, and here's the answer! You should also consider giving it a try for other articles where it would be desirable to display many images, yet there isn't enough space for stacking all of them given small amounts of text. Pericles of Athens^Talk 08:33, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

That's helpful. Didn't like what the multiple images did to the text in the ancient Greek art article. Wonder why the weird handle on the geometric vase. Cake (talk) 08:54, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, the handle is kind of funky-looking, come to think of it. I see that you've already employed the "perrow" style multiple image format. It looks good! Excellent work. Pericles of Athens^Talk 09:30, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

You could even try to fiddle with the sizes of each image in order for them to line up nice and neatly, like the image example here to the right from Archaic Greece. Pericles of Athens^Talk 09:31, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, haven't mastered that art yet. Cake (talk) 09:34, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

I love this sort of stuff. In school, people hated doing projects with me because I spent hours just making the PowerPoint presentation look pretty. The "unimportant" parts, they said. It's a good thing Wikipedia is relatively limited in its options when it comes to presentation, because I'd probably never get any work done on actually writing the articles. Lizard (talk) 19:17, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

It takes a certain effort to not get bogged down in images even more so than with the athletics articles. In Tunisia, there are several Greco-Roman mosaics featuring tigers, as the cult of Dionysus seemed to like panthers and tigers. I think the two in front are having a conversation. With all the animals and sacrifices going around, few except for Heraclitus recount what must have been the smells of the ancient world. Cake (talk) 22:13, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Dan McGugin

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Dan McGugin has been completed.

I think that the article's structure is fine. It follows his career in chronological order which is the logical way to do it. I did spot check a couple of the citations and discovered some dead links. You'll notice that I've found and archived new ones. I did not check them all, but I suggest that you archive the rest of the URLs when you can. Citation #30 is not formatted correctly - it's simply the bare URL. I tried several times to access the page but for some reason the website is not responding and my connection kept timing out so I could not fix it.

As this article https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2011/10/03/looking-back-dan-mcgugin/ indicates, McGugin was a "lawyer who coached football in his spare time". It has a lot of interesting information on his non-coaching life that could be included: his initial salary, the fact he was a Rotarian and a senator, and died of heart failure two years after retiring that would help round out the article. There's also a great quote by an unidentified Birmingham News sports editor that would be worth including. Have a look.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Kind regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 19:06, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much twofingered. Feared you gave up after the seeing the Vanderbilt section, and I noticed several times where I left out whole words and other silly mistakes. Hopefully not too boring. I just found out Jackson Pollock's parents were natives of Tingley. Go figure. Cake (talk) 22:20, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

And a neat article too. Not surprised he had a legal career - was the Spears law partner related to Bill Spears? I wonder. One has to think the unidentified sportswriter was Zipp Newman. Cake (talk) 22:53, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

unintentional ping

Sorry just accidentally pinged you through a copy and paste mistake. Rybkovich (talk) 19:08, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

featured article

I nominated Pop Warner to be a featured article. Rybkovich (talk) 22:11, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

You may wanna reconsider. As I understand it, featured articles are expected to be in a different league than good articles. The reviewers go through the article with a fine-tooth comb and are extremely harsh. They will definitely bring up the excessive fair use images. The article has only been GA for a couple weeks. Let it marinate for a little longer. Lizard (talk) 22:56, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

There are only two fair use images [1][2] WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 23:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Last time I checked there was like 7. But the article already has several PD images that serve the same purpose. Lizard (talk) 23:53, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Will be interesting to see how it does. I put it in the guild of copy editors queue a bit ago for another set of eyes on it. And yes, we've trimmed down the image use lizard. Cake (talk) 07:05, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team

Hello:

The copy edit that you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article 1922 Vanderbilt Commodores football team has been completed.

I tried to trim as much as was sensible. For the most part I removed details that did not relate directly to a successful TD or punt. I understand the need to convert distances into metric, but converting the yard line numbers just seemed odd to me. The 50-yard line is a physical location on the field. Even if a spectator used metric for distance as they watched a game, the 50-yard line would be the 50-yard line. So, I removed those conversions. I also tried to make the numbering consistent - numbers below ten are expressed in words - I think I got them all - there were a lot!

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Kind regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 14:37, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Twofingered! Your decision with the meters make sense. I would not be surprised if I wasn't the one to add them. Most of all I needed the Texas and Georgia games trimmed down. Probably enough for their own article on games not meriting their own article. Cake (talk) 20:05, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Editing

Hi Dr., can you wait with your edits until im done with my editing session so that we don't get into conflict edits? Rybkovich (talk)

Of course. Sorry, I couldn't resist changing the awkward "arrive to". Cake (talk) 18:05, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

All good. Above I meant Mr. :) I'm done for now (11:34 pacific) so you can go crazy with it. Finished at Cornell Rybkovich (talk) 18:34, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Nevers and pops pick

I took it off the page. Didn't touch the pic itself. I am 100% sure that it will not pass the WP:FUC #8 fair use requirement. We have the Pops and his staff pic in the legacy section and I think there is a chance that this will pass (it will be a bloody fight). To even keep one in the Featured Article discussion the trenches have to be dug around one and I think it has to be the staff one. I changed the title adding "staff" to center it on the fair use argument that it is key to convey his coaching legacy. Better word than "staff"? Rybkovich (talk) 16:15, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Nevers replacement

Good call on replacing the fair use pick with the valid one from Nevers page. I was considering doing the same thing. My thought of having the Standford team pic in Coaching Legacy because it is a picture of him passing on his wisdom. Which I think will help us editors in our fair use argument during FAC evaluation. The fair use argument is something like it representing the process of players, assistant coaches becoming head coaches. Also we already have a Nevers pic in the stanford section. Rybkovich (talk) 03:53, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, not positive but I think that's Nevers at Stanford (look at the socks). Torn between putting the '24 pic in the Stanford section or coaching section. Kerr and Thornhill getting Warner's wisdom was definitely the idea. Check out the 1921 Centre team for some Warner-ball I've worked on. Cake (talk) 15:52, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Will see if I can find any connection between Wallace Wade and Warner. Don't think he coached under him or anything like that, but those Alabama teams ran a single wing. Cake (talk) 16:02, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

This and this is neat, though not exactly what is needed. Cake (talk) 16:05, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

This will show I didn't make it up. Cake (talk) 16:09, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

question on o/d scheme additions

Hi Cake, saw the some of the formation and scheme edits (including on Washington). Is there a RS, am I missing something? Love the content, just not sure where it is supported. Cheers, UW Dawgs (talk) 00:43, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Looks like eventually someone should tease out the confusions for which coach used the short punt, the single wing and double wing formations. However, I think the worst for any I've listed is it's one of those three confuse for one of the remaining two. See here for one source which states "Gloomy Gil" (a great character) used the single wing at Washington. I've been cleaning up Pop Warner. Cake (talk) 00:58, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

See this source too. Cake (talk) 01:04, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

"There is no way to improve on football beyond the unbalanced line single-wing". Coach Snavely must be rolling in his grave. Lizard (talk) 01:14, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Am I missing something? Even if we added both the 1936 ("The Dobie system employs a single wing back and double wingback with variations." and "Dobie employs a six, three, two formation on the defense, but he changes to a seven man line when the offensive team's strength warrants it.") and 1992 articles ("Other coaches famous for the single wing during its heyday include: ... "Gloomy Gil" Dobie, Washington and Cornell;") as citations within the 1913~1916 Washington articles, they don't directly speak to the content and year. However, they are terrific citations for the coach article. So to my eye, these team article additions appear to be well-intended and likely close to correct, but unsupported in context to the team season articles. Thoughts? We can push the discussion to the CFB project Talk if helpful, just trying to avoid a future unwind of well-intentioned work. UW Dawgs (talk) 01:22, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

It's a fair assessment, though the first does reference the use at Washington. Cake (talk) 01:32, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Pope notes that Dobie used the three above referenced formations at Cornell, at least. Cake (talk) 01:53, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

I have said my peace. In the spirit of WP:NOTTRUTH, I have removed the additions from the four Washington articles in particular (no WP:OWN of them is implied), as I don't believe either citation is sufficient for these four articles and neither citation is presently within the articles. So it fails WP:V. UW Dawgs (talk) 01:59, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:1914 Southwest Conference football standings

Template:1914 Southwest Conference football standings has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Frietjes (talk) 14:02, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Europe 10,000 Challenge invite

Hi. The Wikipedia:WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iberian Peninsula, Romania, Slovenia etc, much like Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for Europe and your specialist country like Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon, sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every country of Europe, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any country sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thank you. --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/The 50,000 Challenge

You are invited to participate in the 50,000 Challenge, aiming for 50,000 article improvements and creations for articles relating to the United States. This effort began on November 1, 2016 and to reach our goal, we will need editors like you to participate, expand, and create. See more here!

--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:39, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of William A. Whiting for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article William A. Whiting is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William A. Whiting until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:08, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of Nathaniel Curtis for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Nathaniel Curtis is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nathaniel Curtis until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:08, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Sanka, you dead?

Just making sure you're still sentient. You've been uncharacteristically reserved lately. Lizard (talk) 17:31, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Pop Warner featured article review

Editors have finally started to address Warner's featured article statues, trying to figure out how to get the discussion on to Warner's talk page. Here's the discussion Rybkovich (talk) 19:39, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Pop Cow Bladder

Hey Dr., why did you remove the cow bladder entry?

• (cur | prev) 13:46, 27 September 2016‎ MisterCake (talk | contribs)‎ . . (96,616 bytes) (+28)‎ . . (→‎Early years) (undo | thank)
• (cur | prev) 16:35, 26 September 2016‎ WikiOriginal-9 (talk | contribs)‎ . . (96,588 bytes) (+4)‎ . . (undo | thank) Rybkovich (talk) 22:16, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

I figured it out. I took the info out of the foot note and put it back in the main text so the reader sees it without extra effort. Also fits in with the story on the train. Rybkovich (talk) 23:01, 15 November 2016 (UTC)