User talk:Mahagaja/Archive 63

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Banbha

Hi, I don't know whether it would be considered vandalism for me to directly edit the pronunciation indicated in the Banbha article. Can you see my comment on the Banbha talk page? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Banba#pronunciation — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.177.184 (talk) 11:58, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

It's not vandalism. Go ahead and make the correction. Angr (talk) 12:10, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Some help?

Hi, I saw you are an admin. Could you please delete my user page and talk page and then protect my user name as I want to leave wikipedia? Thanks for your help. Babub→Talk 18:57, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

I can delete your user page, but user talk pages don't normally get deleted. We also don't usually block people just because they want to leave. If you want to leave, just stop editing. Angr (talk) 19:01, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
If you could delete my user page, it would be great. Thanks. Babub→Talk 12:39, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Sources to demonstrate existence of criticism

Hello Angr --

Re: edits over at SDL Trados, a few anon IPs and Special:Contributions/Ghislandi have edited the article to remove any mention of criticism of the software. I've been a user for over a decade, and there has been considerable criticism of various aspects of the software on many different online fora. I understand about reliability in general; my intent in adding the cites was not to make a claim one way or the other that the criticism was correct, but instead to reinforce that the criticism exists, which is what the anons and Ghislandi seem intent on scrubbing away. See Talk:SDL_Trados#SDL_Trados.23Criticism for some past mention of these issues.

Lack of backwards compatibility is not the only extant criticism, but the current state of the article seems to imply that it is. For example, complicated and error-prone licensing has been enough of a serious concern in the user community that SDL is advertising the simplified licensing scheme in SDL Studio 2011 as a selling point.

In this light, how best can criticism be included in the SDL Trados article? -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 16:43, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

As a PS, does Special:Contributions/Ghislandi's contrib history merit marking as a WP:SPA? -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 16:46, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Even if the point is to show that the criticism is out there, it has to be sourced to something more reliable than blogs (unless they're by recognized professionals) and forums. What have published reviews in specialist journals and the like had to say? Random people griping in a forum or on their own blog just doesn't meet the standards for reliability that Wikipedia has. I'm not sure what you mean by "marking as a WP:SPA". People's comments in deletion discussions and the like sometimes get tagged with {{spa}}, but Ghislandi hasn't participated in discussions like that. Angr (talk) 20:42, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Re: criticism, your edit note stated "sorry, but blogs and forums are not WP:reliable sources"; the section at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Statements_of_opinion seems to say otherwise:

Some sources may be considered reliable for statements as to their author's opinion, but not for statements asserted as fact without an inline qualifier like "(Author) says...".

Finding reviews of SDL Trados is a challenge for two main reasons -- 1) translators don't really have much use for a specialist journal, so there really aren't any that I'm aware of; 2) the product has a "Review" feature, intended for use in reviewing translations, so any search with "review" in the string generates thousands (millions?) of false positives.
From what I have seen, ProZ is pretty much the forum for English-writing Trados translators, with the Yahoo user group the main runner-up. And again, there really aren't that many specialist journals for translation, as the field is primarily comprised of sole-props and small operators that don't have the time or money for trade publications, especially when our main means of keeping abreast of the business is online instead of via trade mags.
The one blog post used as a citation was published by the CEO of a translation services firm, and is clearly marked as such at the top of that page (http://blog.gts-translation.com/2009/12/14/sdl-trados-is-it-worth-the-money/ ).
I've tweaked the wording of the Talk:SDL_Trados#SDL_Trados.23Criticism section to avoid implying that lack of backwards compatibility is the only criticism.
Re: WP:SPA, thank you for the clarification. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 00:21, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
There is already one ref from The Journal of Specialized Translation; does that Journal publish software reviews? I guess Dave Grunwald is enough of a recognized expert that you can use his blog, but really only for things he says, not for the comments from other people. Angr (talk) 06:19, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for the lead, but sadly they seem to do more by way of academic studies than product reviews (c.f. "Translation and Technology: a Study of UK Freelance Translators", or "Corpora in Translation: A Slovene Perspective"). I'll think about how best to incorporate that one blog post so it's clear that it's an opinion piece. -- Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 07:16, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Gooch

I think you misused Rollback on your last edit to Gooch. The edit made by the IP was not vandalism as they explained why they were removing the entry and probably felt they were improving the encyclopedia. Please consider discussing the entry. Thanks. GB fan 15:26, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

It seemed like a gratuitous removal of information. As the comment on the talk page shows, people whose name is Gooch dislike the fact that the word is also a slang name for the perineum, but the fact that some people find something offensive isn't a reason to exclude it. People who hear the word "gooch" and don't know what it refers to will want to look it up at Wikipedia, and I see no reason to conceal information from them. Angr (talk) 15:31, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
You are right that is not a reason to remove information but instead of treating the edit like vandalism you should discuss the edit with the person. When someone leaves an edit summary that explains their removal the least you can do is explain why you are reverting their change. GB fan 15:48, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

So now in the middle of a content dispute you revert to what you believe the page should look like and then use your admin tools to protect the page? Aren't you WP:INVOLVED? GB fan 15:04, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

It's just a disambig page; it's not like it's a question of POV. When an anon keeps coming back to a page forcing his changes on it despite the absence of any consensus (or even logical reason) to do so, my choice as an admin is to protect the page or block the user. I picked the one that seemed less disruptive, as this way he can at least present his arguments on the talk page. Angr (talk) 14:27, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
And you should present your arguments on the talk page also. You are forcing your view on the page despite the absence of any consensus to do so. You have another choice as an editor also and that is to ask an uninvolved admin to look at the page and decide if it should be protected. I don't see anything anywhere that says the consensus is to keep that on the page. Most of the talk page discussion prior talks about removing it. I think you made the wrong decision to use your admin tools when you are involved in the content dispute. GB fan 14:55, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
Whatever. I unprotected it again. I can't possibly guard every page in the encyclopedia against destructive editors. Angr (talk) 16:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
Since it was a very obvious case of disruptive removals, bordering on vandalism, Angr's administrative actions are justified, per WP:INVOLVED (see the third paragraph). — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 21:36, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
The third paragraph of WP:INVOLVED says "In cases which are straightforward, (e.g. blatant vandalism), the community has historically endorsed the obvious action of any administrator – even if involved – on the basis that any reasonable administrator would have probably come to the same conclusion." and I am an administrator and I would not come to the conclusion that it is vandalism, unless you are saying I am not a reasonable administrator. The reason I would say it is not vandalism is that policy says "Even if misguided, willfully against consensus, or disruptive, any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia is not vandalism." and I believe based on their edit summaries it is a good faith effort to improve the encyclopedia no matter whether it is right or wrong. Even you say it is "bordering on vandalism" that would mean to me that you agree it is not "blatant vandalism" (correct me if I am wrong). GB fan 22:44, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
The policy says "e.g. blatant vandalism," not *"i.e. blatant vandalism." That means that vandalism isn't the only straightforward instance where the need for administrative action is obvious. If you don't see the anon's edit warring as disruptive, I'd say you were being unreasonable. — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 00:59, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
I see the edit war that took place on that page as disruptive. THe anon was disruptive as well as the admins who were on the other side who were using the rollback tool on non-vandalism edits and weren't discussing why the entry belonged. Did you read the rest of the third paragraph of WP:INVOLVED where it says "Although there are exceptions to the prohibition on involved editors taking administrative action, it is still best practice in cases where an administrator may be seen to be involved to pass the matter to another administrator via the relevant noticeboards."? No admins are on their own out here there are always uninvolved admins that can take care of things. GB fan 04:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
I doubt either of us are going to come to an agreement here and I'm sure Angr is tiring of this discussion between us on his talk page. I think that this boils down to the difference between "you didn't use your admin tools in the best way" and "you misused your admin tools." Maybe Angr could've done better, but this doesn't mean he misused his admin tools. If you're the kind of person to get up on somebody for not being a perfect, by-the-book administrator, then you're likely to do some Reichstag-climbing. — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 05:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Google's endangered languages project

Template:Respell

Please, see my reply at Template talk:Respell#Displaying the schwa. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 21:10, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

another year

have a happy one! Malangali (talk) 00:05, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! You too, belated by one day. Angr (talk) 07:31, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Good Humor
for this. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 06:40, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Great consonant shift

In June 2009, you added a merge tag to this article, but didn't provide any rationale or initiate a discussion. So now, it's three years later and no further activity or discussion has taken place. Can this be wrapped up soon? WTF? (talk) 16:10, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't know why you say I didn't provide any rationale or initiate a discussion. The discussion is at Talk:Great consonant shift#Redirect to Grimm's law. User:Greensburger and I were really the only ones to discuss it; I supported the merger, he opposed. User:Tropylium made a comment but didn't really commit to a position. I suppose I'll start an RFC for it in order to attract more voices. Angr (talk) 17:50, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

More linguistics

Enjoy. Uncle G (talk) 19:10, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Vedda language

Since you've commented on the talk page, thought I'd let you know that there appears to be an edit war starting up w at least one falsified ref. — kwami (talk) 04:25, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

AFD Light Verb

Angr, I don't feel you should close the AFD discussion for this article yet. The article needs to be rewritten to reflect the points raised in this discussion. The deletion debate needs to be left open / reopened pending adequate rewrite.Drew.ward (talk) 19:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Do you seriously think the result will change if the discussion stays open for another 3 days? This is what's known as a snowball keep. Angr (talk) 19:53, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
    • The point of the AFD process is to ensure quality of WP. If problems have been raised with an article within such a discussion, they should be addressed before the process is ended. otherwise there's no point in even bothering and anyone who wants can put whatever crap they want to on the site.Drew.ward (talk) 22:22, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
      • AFDs are closed after seven days regardless of whether the problems mentioned in them have been solved or not. In this case, it was closed after four partly because you (the nominator) voted "keep but rewrite", essentially withdrawing your objection to the article's existence, and partly because it's astronomically unlikely that three more days of discussion would have changed the outcome. If you feel the article needs rewriting, the thing to do now is get busy rewriting it rather than complain that an AFD whose result was already clear was closed early, especially when you yourself agree the article shouldn't be deleted. Angr (talk) 23:41, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
      • Or, more succinctly and in traditional form: AFD is not Cleanup. Uncle G (talk) 15:58, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Template:Respell

Hi Angr, please see this discussion. Thanks. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 21:11, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

"hard-core language nerds"

Hi Angr! Context.

A little rite of passage for language nerds must surely be when they have their first dream in the language they're studying.

I still have dreams in Japanese... and I apologise, and ask if we can continue in English. --Shirt58 (talk) 11:21, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, I've never dreamt in Old Irish! Angr (talk) 11:26, 28 July 2012‎ (UTC)
Much worse when you transfer very obvious stuff onto your native language(s)... I once accidentally lenited in English, confusing a girl at the ticket desk cause I'd asked for "two hickets" >.< Akerbeltz (talk) 12:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
In Irish, English words beginning with "t", "d", and "f" don't undergo lenition anyway. Do they in Gaelic? Angr (talk) 16:11, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
The situation is not entirely clear but on the whole, they do if the initial also occurs in Gaelic, so a lot of native speakers would lenite torch to "mo horch" but probably not "mo zebra" Akerbeltz (talk) 20:04, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
In Irish, the rule as far as I can tell is that lenition applies to foreign words only if the change isn't "too severe" (involving debuccalization, d → ɣ, or deletion). So p, b, m, k, g get lenited in foreign words, but f, t, d, s do not. I noticed this once on Ros na Rún: the character Tadhg was called a Thadhg in the vocative, but the character Tom was called a Tom without lenition. Angr (talk) 20:13, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Religion in … dispute

You probably didn't know, but you're all actually in one dispute. Uncle G (talk) 08:13, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Ancient vs modern Greek

Hi Angr

I've belatedly seen your addition to a thread from earlier in August. It's not an important point, but I thought you might be interested to know that I too pronounce the digammas in Homer (mentally I mean, while reading), because otherwise the failure to scan properly jars on me. Maid Marion (talk) 14:42, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Review?

Hi Angr, I've been expanding language over the past couple of weeks and am now at the stage where I'd like some outside input before deciding whether it is worth to go through the GA process. I'd appreciate any comments you might have. I've set up a peerreview page here [[1]]. Best. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:52, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Demographics of Berlin‎

It may or maynot be a requirewment, but British english is still preferred over American english. Kingjeff (talk) 16:51, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

No it isn't. Berlin itself is written in American English. There's no reason whatsoever for Demographics of Berlin to violate WP:RETAIN by changing that. Angr (talk) 18:02, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hoplophobia

Can you expand on your rationale and how you reached your conclusion? Thanks! -- The Red Pen of Doom 20:50, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, please. I would like to see your reasons for the decision as well. Thank you.StopYourBull (talk) 21:02, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
What's to explain? There was no consensus to delete the article, so it didn't get deleted. Angr (talk) 21:13, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
so you just counted snouts? or did you weigh the Policies behind the arguments? how did you evaluate the various policies brought forth? -- The Red Pen of Doom 21:19, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
As far as I could tell there was no real discussion of Wikipedia policy. Frankly, as far as I can tell, Wikipedia policy has nothing to say about this issue. Since AFDs default to "keep" in the absence of clear consensus to delete, it's up to those in favor of deletion to prove why the article violates WP policy, and that didn't happen here. On the other hand, neither was there clear consensus to keep, and it was obvious that after 2 weeks of discussion no consensus was going to be forthcoming, which is why I closed it as "no consensus". Angr (talk) 21:42, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry. I am new at editing, but aren't notability, using WP as a dictionary, or a soapbox, etc., all WP policy? Is there something I am missing here?StopYourBull (talk) 22:39, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
WP:N is a guideline; WP:SOAPBOX and WP:DICT are policy, but in the discussion you were unable to convince the other participants that the article violated them. Angr (talk) 12:03, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Thank you.StopYourBull (talk) 13:02, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

English Language

Please review English Language, here, thanks!--Lucky102 (talk) 19:44, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

OE Grammar article

Hi Angr, you reverted my edit and put Old English grammar back into the Old English language category, but the article is already in the Old English grammar category, which is within the category 'Old English language'. I feel the inclusion of the article in both categories is unecessary. Any chance of you agreeing with me and reverting to my edit? :) Hel-hama (talk) 21:43, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Since it's the lead article of the category Category:Old English grammar, it should be at the top of that category's list rather than alphabetized under O; and since it's the lead article of the category it can be included in higher-level categories such as Category:Old English language. Basically, if I'm at Category:Old English language and looking for the article on something as basic as the grammar, I should be able to find that article right there under G, rather than first finding the grammar subcategory and having to click through to get to the general article. For more specific articles about particular aspects of OE grammar, it's reasonable to expect readers to click through into the more specific category. Angr (talk) 22:17, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
I agree with you completely, thanks for the reply you wrote. Hel-hama (talk) 18:22, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

jewish cemetery weissensee

see german version to find the number of appr. 4000 graves destroyed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.198.140.60 (talk) 17:48, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Big top pee wee.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:Big top pee wee.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Hazard-Bot (talk) 04:05, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

EES (rapper)

Where do you think I could find a free image? Keizers (talk) 22:34, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Show up with a camera whenever he's going to appear in public? Look for CC-BY(-SA) images on Flickr? Angr (talk) 22:42, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't live in Namibia, so the first one is not going to happen. The second suggestion, they don't exist. So not sure why you tagged this photo, anyway I'll try to expand the explanation for the photo so this is apparent. Keizers (talk) 00:27, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
There's no rule or expectation that you be the person to find a free image. The point is that it's possible for someone to create a free image, since the fellow is alive and not a recluse or in prison. Angr (talk) 17:45, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Could you please tell me what I have to do to use the German Wikipedia release in the English Wikipedia? I find the whole image licensing syntax baffling - in terms of finding the right codes.Keizers (talk) 19:58, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
The best thing to do would be to move the image from German Wikipedia to Commons. I would ask at commons:Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard about how to do it so that the OTRS permission from German Wikipedia gets transferred to Commons. Angr (talk) 20:07, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
I already tried copying the license information from the German version to the English one, hopefully that will do the trick. If not and I made a mistake, I'll follow your suggestion (or just give up, because at a certain point these things just become too difficult).Keizers (talk) 21:37, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Dyirringany language

Hi,

Could you take a look? I've hit 3RR. — kwami (talk) 17:03, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Sanity check on my Latin

I'm translating a description by Plukenet for the article on the fungus Calostoma cinnabarinum, and I wanted an independent set of eyes from someone with a better (and undoubtedly far more recent!) Latin and linguistics background than mine. I saw you had helped out on Wikiproject Latin quite a bit, and are active, so I'm hoping you'll have a spare moment. The original description is "Fungus pulverulentus, virginianus, caudice coralline, topiario opere contorto". Technically, the original description didn't have the punctuation, but that's helpfully provided by later sources. I'm good with most of this, but caudice coralline is giving me some problems. Caudice looks to me to be the ablative of caudex (tree trunk, but here being used to describe a mushroom's stalk). But I'm not sure that coralline (from corallinus, coral-red) is even correctly in agreement, because that looks a lot like the vocative from where I'm sitting. Wouldn't the ablative be corallino? My first guess here was "coral-red stalk", but given the apparent ablative (and the fact that it makes for a better description of the actual mushroom), I'm wondering if he wasn't going for "coral-red apart from the stalk", because ... actually using a noun for the spherical head would have been too hard, or something? In any case, if you've got eight Latin words worth of spare time, I'd sure appreciate your input. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 15:25, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't know either. My first thought at coralline was an adverb, but that doesn't make sense either. If it were "coral red apart from the stipe", corallinus would have to be in the nominative masculine to modify fungus, and caudice would certainly have some sort of preposition before it. All I can think of is that it's a misprint for caudice corallino, but that's kind of a cop-out. Sorry I can't be of more help! Angr (talk) 20:40, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Hrm. The original text is on an illustrated plate in a 1692 work, and is in Plukenet's sometimes uncooperative hand rather than typeset. I've looked at a scan of a reprint of the original Plukenet plate, and there's no way I'm determining what that letter is on my own without resorting to original research. Happily, there are plenty of secondary sources quoting it. Unhappily, I don't think two of them quote it the same way. Ray has coralline. Fries has corallino, and I'd normally consider him pretty authoritative, but he also replaces opere with arte -- and Plukenet's handwriting isn't that bad; it's opere. Burnap has corallino and opere, and I'm already citing him for other reasons in the article, so if this only makes grammatical sense spelled that way, I can make a case for it, I think. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 21:07, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:Anglican navbox colour discussion

Hullo, fellow WikiProject-er. We're having a discussion about the colours of Anglicanism navboxes. Please do come along and weigh in. DBD 17:43, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

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