User talk:John Hill/Archive 9

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File source problem with File:Carib Indian - Orinoco River 1890s.jpg

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File:Brush Turkey on tiles.jpg

The image File:Brush Turkey on tiles.jpg has been listed for possible deletion here. Without knowing what you took a photograph of, we can't confirm that we have the copyright license we need to keep it here. Please comment at the discussion. Thank you, Oiyarbepsy (talk) 17:39, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

NOTE: This is a photo of one of the many decorative and informative tiles on a public monument to Aboriginal culture and history. It is known as the Milbi Wall (or "Story Wall") in Cooktown, Queensland, Australia. As it is part of a public monument which is regularly photographed by tourists and locals, I believe it should be free of copyright. John Hill (talk) 20:35, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

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Notes on copyright issues I wrote to the photographers of the first two photos under question here (File:Museum dedicated to Zheng He at Nanjing.jpg and File:Nanga 01.jpg) years ago for permission when I uploaded them and I recorded what they said. I no longer have addresses for them so it would be difficult to contact them again about this. So, please do as you wish - but in the knowledge that both photographers originally gave permission for these to be uploaded to the Wikipedia and they have appeared here for years since with no problems.

The second two photographs (File:Squid drying - Twillingate.jpgFile:Twillingate Lighthouse.jpg) were both taken by my sister, Joyce E. Hill, and I have just added the following note on the pages for each of these photograhs:

"NOTE: I just wrote to the photographer, my sister, Joyce Eleanor Hill in Vancouver for her permission to use this and other photos which she has taken. She has just sent the following email. I hope this resolves the problem with copyright. John Hill (talk) 20:43, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Forwarded Message ------

From: "Joyce Hill" <joellie@shaw.ca> To: "Jo & John Hill" <wynhill2@bigpond.net.au> Sent: 20/03/2016 1:40:42 PM Subject: Re: Wikipedia 

 I, Joyce Eleanor Hill, am happy to have any of my photos uploaded to Wikipedia by my brother John Edward Hill of  Cooktown, Queensland, Australia,  used on the Wikipedia under the "Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike 3.0 license”.  That applies for any length of time, no limits.

Sincerely, Joyce Eleanor Hill"

I hope this resolves the queries about them. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 20:57, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

XKCD

Here's a laugh for you. Best wishes, Keahapana (talk) 00:04, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks so very much - you have really cheered up a rather drab day here - and I have just begun to explore it! I gather you are well and are obviously firing. Due to health issues (which limit my working hours to just 2 or 3 per day at best) and my preoccupation with my annotated translation of the Weilűe, I haven't been quite as active on WP of late. Mostly just making small edits, adding references and uploading the occasional photo. I think I will have to reincarnate a few more times to get all the work I would like to do on the WP done. So many key articles need and deserve much more polishing. What are you up to these days? If you would like to contact me privately, don't hesitate to send an email to: wynhill2@bigpond.net.au. I would love to hear from you. All my very best wishes, and thanks for your many contributions, John Hill (talk) 00:38, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Glad you liked it. Yes, I can sympathize with geezer health issues. I've recently been working on early Chinese dictionaries, and am grateful to have WP as an outlet. All's well here on the island, I ride my mountain bike and my wife rides her horse. If your Weilűe translation could use another set of eyes, I'd be glad to help proof. Let's keep in touch. Keahapana (talk) 02:46, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi again! Thanks for your friendly and supportive email. I am intrigued with the work you are doing on dictionaries of early Chinese - I would love to discuss with you some of the many rather cryptic terms in the Weilűe. Unfortunately, I really don't know who you are - other than your WP name, that you are with the University of Hawai'i, and the fact that you are a contact of Victor's. Have you been involved with any of the wonderful ABC dictionaries published by the U. of Hawai'i Press?

Removed section here John Hill (talk) 02:42, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

I am hoping that you may, perhaps, be able to be to assist me with some of the remaining unknown terms and that, hopefully, I may be of some help to you in return???? And, yes - certainly yes, to your suggestion of having a set of expert eyes looking over it all sometime before it is put in the public domain. But, look, I certainly don't want to give you a lot of extra work to do. Even if all we do is share some thoughts and maybe spark some ideas - that would indeed be wonderful!

Please do send me an email (see the address above) so we can communicate off these pages and - but only if you wish - please send me your name so I know who to address my emails to. Thanks so much for making contact and your kind offer of help.

I so look forward to hearing from you again.

Warmest wishes, John Hill (talk) 08:05, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Will email tomorrow. Keahapana (talk) 03:32, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

The Tibetan Buddhism Banner

Hi @John Hill:. I'm grateful for your help and collaboration with getting a couple of Tibetan Buddhist banners up on some entries that I've been editing. I've got a question about the banner itself, and as an experienced user, I thought you might know how this works.

When looking at the Tibetan Buddhism banner, underneath the banner header, there are categories with drop down menus that include links to particularly important topics, people, places etc in Tibetan Buddhism. I want to find out where I can go to discuss the content of the drop down menus and discussing adding at least one prominent woman to the Key Figures links in the banner. I suggest Yeshe Tsogyal.

I posted this question at the talk page for the template, yet I'm not sure that it's really an active page.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions you have for this potential conversation with the relevant group of users.

Thanks again. AD64 (talk) 06:49, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi again! I have just had a look at the "Key Figures" tab in the box on the Mandarava page and notice it lists both Mandarava and Yeshe Tsogyal there. However, there could and should be more female persons and/or deities listed there as they play a truly significant role - particularly in Tibetan Buddhism. There is information on many of the most important ones at http://www.dharmafellowship.org/library/essays/women-buddhas.htm and you might find it good to add some of these women/deities to the "Key Figures" page. Again, if you need help, so write again. As the Kashmiri rug merchants used to say when I was living in India many years ago: "Looking is free! Asking is free!" All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 07:08, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
And so I shall ask again! I'm just starting to get my feet wet as an editor and your assistance is truly valuable. I looked just now at the Tibetan Buddhism banner on the Mandarava page and I think I understand the differences in what we are seeing. You are clicking on the words "Key Figures" which takes you here. I'm clicking on the "show" button on the right side. When I do this, the menu expands and I see, in order, from top to bottom: Gautama Buddha, Padmasambhava, Je Tsongkhapa, Dalai Lama, Panchen Lama, Lama, Karmapa, Rinpoche, Geshe, Terton, Tulku. I'm hoping to get Yeshe Tsogyal added to this list.
I am also grateful for your link to the Dharma Fellowship page; it is a great resource. Now that you've pointed me to the list of Tibetan Buddhists, I'm going to earmark this for updating.
I lived in Nepal and India for a little while myself, and could see the very rug shop when I read your description. I appreciate your warm welcome and the collaboration too.
Best wishes, AD64 (talk) 07:31, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Blogs

Please do not add links to http://www.lumkap.org.uk/ as references or external links. It is a self-published source. Please see WP:USERGENERATED and WP:SPAM. Thank you JimRenge (talk) 01:14, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing this out. I will now endeavour to fix the relevant edits I have made. John Hill (talk) 03:39, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 26

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Copying within Wikipedia requires proper attribution

Information icon Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Korzok Monastery into Karzok. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was moved, attribution is not required. — Diannaa (talk) 17:21, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Coconut water

You've not addressed the concerns there [1]. Minimally, if you are going to add images to articles, you should be familiar with MOS:IMAGES. --Ronz (talk) 16:24, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

I've removed your plaque image from a couple of articles. At least in one it was in the gallery. In neither case was it something strongly related to the article topic. In one article you may have been using it as reference maybe? I'm unfamiliar with general consensus for using such material as reference, but there have been a number of cases where similar plaques were found to be unreliable sources. --Ronz (talk) 16:37, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Take your image of the Basgo sign [2] as still another example. It's a picture predominantly of a large hill with the sky as a backdrop, with some surrounding trees. The buildings and sign are so small in comparison that they're secondary at best. The resolution and angle doesn't give obvious cropping improvements. --Ronz (talk) 16:47, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

When I checked your message to me today I at first thought you were only talking about the images I had uploaded to the Coconut water and Basgo articles - I was still half asleep and didn't at first notice that you have also deleted even more of my photos.
I only uploaded the photo to the Basgo page because there was no illustration at all of Basgo in the article and this one at least shows the setting of the village and entrance to it. Unfortunately, it is the only one I have of it. I believe it is at least better to be able to see that much than nothing at all. I uploaded it in hopes that someone would replace it by a better one sometime. If you can find such a photo - please do replace mine.
However, I then noticed that you have been going through my recent uploads and deleting ones you don't like without contacting me first about them. At this end it feels hostile. I would appreciate it in future if you would at least contact me and discuss the reason I uploaded them in the first place before just deleting them. I have uploaded many hundreds of images to the Wikipedia over the years - including over 570 photographs. Some of them may not be ideal - but I sincerely feel they each contribute something to the WP - if only temporarily - or I wouldn't take the time and trouble to upload them. If they really aren't appropriate it probably won't be long before some other editor removes them - hopefully after contacting me first.
I do believe in adding to the Wikipedia rather than subtracting from it unless there is something wrong or misleading or in bad taste that clearly should be removed. If none of these objections applies - I believe one should discuss the matter politely before deleting someone else's work. Although we obviously disagree on some issues I am aware you have made many good and worthy contributions to the WP, and I think you generally mean well, so I do hope we can leave this matter behind us and get on with more productive things. Yours, John Hill (talk) 20:34, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
No offense meant.
I hope you'll take a bit more time considering the quality and appropriateness of the images you add. --Ronz (talk) 23:45, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Green glass Roman cup unearthed at Eastern Han tomb, Guixian, China

Thank you very much for uploading this image. It has been of great service in almost a dozen articles where I've just recently added it. Articles like Sino-Roman relations desperately needed images like this. For that matter, I'd like to personally thank you for translating and publishing the Weilue 魏略 online (2004), with an extensive and awesomely pedantic set of footnotes to accompany it. I'ts been very helpful in my edits to the aforementioned article and the one on Daqin. I'm putting serious thought into creating a Wikipedia article on you, for that matter, just to give you the recognition you deserve. Pericles of AthensTalk 23:44, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Reply

Dear Eric Connor / PericlesofAthens
What a lovely surprise to receive your kind note to me. Thank you so very much - you have really made my week! Like most people, I thrive on praise - especially when it comes from someone I admire and respect. I have noticed your many excellent contributions to the WP over the years - and, just checking your User pages now - I realise that there are many other fine contributions that I haven't been aware of until now. Thank you for them.
I am thrilled that you have found my draft notes on the Weilüe from 2004 of some help. I should point out, though, that they are really out of date. Since I posted those notes on the Silk Road Seattle website (along with a translation of the Chapter on the Western Regions from the Hou Hanshu, also with copious footnotes, appendices. etc.), I have done a lot more work on both books. I keep discovering new things to explore in these amazing documents, and there has been a flood of new historical and archaeological material published in recent years which have allowed me to enrich our understanding of the texts.
I have published two editions of the annotated translations from the Hou Hanshu, one in 2009, and a much expanded, two-volume edition, in 2015 entitled, Through the Jade Gate – China to Rome. You can have a look at the book and read some of it as well as search the book for keywords on Amazon.com
I am still trying to get the Weilüe ready for publication but it is unfortunately a slow process – especially now that I am somewhat handicapped, mostly bedridden, and usually cannot work on it for prolonged periods as I used to. However, if you would like to discuss any subject related to either work (or anything else for that matter), please do not hesitate to email me at: wynhill2@bigpond.net.au – I would love to hear from you. Thanks again for your most kind comments. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 20:21, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Dear John,
You are very welcome. And thanks for pointing out that your 2009/2015 Through the Jade Gate has some pages available for viewing at Amazon. I'll defintitely give it a look. :) I'm sorry to hear about the poor state of your health; I hope it improves. Kind regards, Pericles of AthensTalk 21:10, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Sanskrit

Hi again John! Sorry to bug you, but I have to relate a little theory of mine that's probably worth looking into.

The site of Oc Eo, Vietnam has yielded artefacts of Roman gold medallions from the reigns of Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius, the same Roman emperors associated with "Andun" in the Weilue and Book of Later Han for the embassy of 166 AD to Emperor Huan of Han's court (Young, 2001: 29; Ball, 2016: 153). Other Roman artefacts have also been found in the Mekong Delta region (Ball, 2016: 153). As you obviously already know, this was an embassy said to have first arrived via Jiaozhi in Vietnam, followed by the alleged Roman embassies in the 3rd century. Ptolemy's Geography tells us of that Cattigara seaport on the Magnus Sinus visited by a Greek seafarer Alexandros. The name "Cattigara" is likely to have been taken from the Sanskrit word Kottinagara (i.e. "Strong City") or Kirtinagara(i.e. "Renowned City"); it was also most likely the same site of Oc Eo mentioned above (Mawer, 2013: 38).

In the 2nd century AD, Oc Eo belonged to the Kingdom of Funan, which is attested not only in Chinese sources but also Sanskrit-language texts in the Grantha alphabet produced by the Funanese themselves (albeit in a scholarly language from India and not their own native ancient Khmer language). It is known that the Romans traded throughout India and bought most of their Chinese silks there via the maritime route from Egypt (Indo-Roman trade relations). Is it possible that the Romans communicated to people in India using Sanskrit? Or would it have been Koine Greek? I'm only familiar with northern India as being Hellenized, first with Alexander's invasion and then the Indo-Greek Kingdom and (Hellenized) Indo-Scythians. Surely there must have been some Romans who communicated to Indian merchants in a tongue other than the lingua franca of Koine Greek, especially Indians further south who did not live under Hellenized regimes. If there's any evidence for Romans or Roman Greeks speaking Sanskrit, that would be interesting, becuase it would most likely be the language they used when (hypothetically) trading with the Kingdom of Funan. Furthermore, it would have most likely been the language they used via interpreters with the Chinese, if those events in the Chinese histories are to be trusted as representing genuine Romans. Food for thought! Pericles of AthensTalk 15:32, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

It's also probably worth mentioning that one of the most famous medieval travelers in China, Marco Polo, knew three other (unnamed) languages yet Chinese probably wasn't among them. He most likely knew Mongolian, Turkish, and Persian, using these to communicate with others during the Mongol-led Yuan Dynasty. I don't know much about the early missionary work in China, but I do know John of Montecorvino, the first Archbishop of Beijing (Khanbaliq), was said to translate the Bible into Mongolian (not sure if he ever translated it into Chinese, probably not). When the Nestorian Christian Uyghur monk and diplomat Rabban Bar Sauma from Zhongdu, later renamed Khanbilaq (Beijing, China) visited the courts of Byzantine Emperor Andronikos II Palaiologos, Philip IV of France, Edward I of England, and Pope Nicholas IV, he wasn't speaking his native languages of Uyghur and Chinese; he spoke in Persian, which was then translated for his gracious hosts. Pericles of AthensTalk 15:44, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
It should be noted that I'm woefully ignorant about the subject in general, due to never having read sources like the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea. There could very well be mention in Roman sources of Romans speaking in Sanskrit, but I would have no idea, because it seems like such an obscure topic that only a handful of academics would be privy to. Pericles of AthensTalk 16:06, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Reply

Dear Eric: Please don't apologise for contacting me; I have been looking forward to chatting with you further and was delighted to find your note here this morning. You have raised some interesting issues that are difficult to resolve but certainly worthy of attention. Even if they cannot be decided definitively, it is useful to understand what the main theories are and how best to apply them to articles in the Wikipedia to ensure they are balanced and not misleading.

You ask whether travellers from the Roman Empire to India and Funan might have spoken "Sanskrit". I don't know of any conclusive evidence - but I think it is highly likely, indeed probable, that some of them would have spoken one or more Indian languages. There were a number of closely related Indo-European or Indo-Aryan languages in use at the time spoken in a wide arc from Afghanistan (“Bactrian” or “Aryan”) and across most of northern India. These languages are often referred to by linguists as “Prakrits” and some use the term to include Classical Sanskrit and Pali which were certainly closely related. How well they could be mutually understood at the time is impossible to say, though it is very likely that a person speaking any one of them would have had little difficulty in learning how to understand another. Also, of course, it is highly probable that traders would have used a basic vocabulary forming a sort of trade language or lingua franca widely understood across a vast region.

Travellers across the overland routes would have come through the Kushan territories in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan where Greek was spoken for centuries alongside various “Prakrits”, and there would have been many native speakers both of some form of Greek plus the local Prakrit. One can assume that traders would have easily and quickly picked up enough of the local languages to be able to negotiate trade, but also, translators would have been easy to find.

Traders travelling from Egypt to Indian ports using the monsoon winds were forced to spend months in port waiting for the monsoons to change before returning home. Some of them would likely have put down roots and stayed behind and/or had families with local women. There is good evidence that communities of “Yavanas” were actually living in India by the second century and it is fair to assume that many of them would have spoken one of the Sanskrit-related Prakrits. It therefore seems almost certain to me that “Western” traders visiting Oc Eo would have had on board people who spoke one or more of these Prakrits.

As to whether Ptolemy’s Kattigara (Latin: Cattigara) referred to Oc Eo or another port is still not proven. I tend to think it more likely referred to Jiaozhi near modern Hanoi – but, as I say, I cannot be certain. I won’t go into the reasons for this here now as it may take a while and I have to leave for a doctor’s appointment in half an hour. If you would like to discuss the evidence it might be better to do it by email.

I highly recommend you have a read of the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea. It is a truly fascinating and irreplaceable document. The most modern and up-to-date version is Lionel Casson’s book, The Periplus Maris Erythraei based on Frisk’s earlier translation. However, it is now out of print and being sold at ridiculous prices (I am so glad I bought myself a copy many years ago). It would be good to find a copy in a library – but McCrindle’s 1879 translation or Huntingford’s 1980 version (which comes with excellent notes) would be good to have on hand as you may find yourself referring to the Periplus from time to time even after you have read it through. If you can afford Huntingford’s (which I see is available on Amazon.com for about US $55 new or $45 used plus post) it would be worth getting a copy. If not – I could send McCrindle’s edition in pdf format via attachments to several emails – as I have it on my computer (plus an 1807 translation by William Vincent). Please let me know what you think.

Hope this is of some help. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 23:52, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi John! Thanks again for the long and thoughtful reply. It appears that my own university library has a copy of Lionel Casson's 1989 publication, so no worries! I wouldn't want to make you labor for me and send a bunch of emails with huge attachments when I could just walk down to the library and pick up the up-to-date version (with convenient parallel texts of Greek and English, very cool). It's also available online, at least in snippets from what I can tell (courtesy University of Washington).
Your point about Greeks having to stay in India for months on end is a fantastic one! It makes perfect sense too, from any reading of the text one should glean that fact seeing how the author stresses that travel only during certain months is favorable (if not necessary for one's survival...you wouldn't want to be caught at sea much longer than you needed, with dwindling provisions). I could certainly see the sons and daughters of mixed-marriage Greek-and-Indian couples being bilingual, even if there's no explicit evidence for it. I'm chiefly interested in any sort of primary sources that might offer us any sort of view into the world of Indian society as the natives saw it at the time (3rd century). Unfortunately such literature doesn't seem available. The Indians had some impressive mathematical and astronomical treatises, a rich tradition of religious and philosophical texts, tales and epics, and terse chronicles, but no investigative histories in the manner of Herodotus/Thucydides until centuries later (and even then most of the earliest historians were Muslims from the north, with Hindu exceptions of course, such as Kalhana's 12th-century Rajatarangini ). Things like the Edicts of Ashoka mention some historical events and people, but that's hardly a history one could systematically approach. Given the lack of official histories, one would have to dig for these sorts of ideas in documents mined from archaeological sites, such as private letters, legal documents, proclamations, etc.
Since archaeological journals are usually in the arcane domain of a small intellectual community (burrowed deep inside the larger academic community), I honestly have to wonder if what I'm discussing is already a confirmed fact from recent findings, yet I would have no idea due to lack of access to such reports. This is also not an area of expertise for me, yet I would like to devour as much information as I can. You've been an enormous help in that regard and I'll be sure to pick up Lionel's version of the Periplus. Goodspeed to you and I hope your health recovers soon! All the best. Pericles of AthensTalk 01:57, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Dahuting Tomb murals, Chinese Eastern Han period (25-220 AD)

I just uploaded all of these to Wikimedia! And have used them in several articles thus far.

The Dahuting Tomb (Chinese: 打虎亭汉墓, Pinyin: Dahuting Han mu) of the late Eastern Han Dynasty (25-220 AD), located in Zhengzhou, Henan province, China, was excavated in 1960-1961 and contains vault-arched burial chambers decorated with murals showing scenes of daily life, with banquet scenes, dancers with musicians playing, court women flaunting their hairstyles, war chariots and cavalry riding to battle, mythological scenes with creatures such as dragons, etc. Pericles of AthensTalk 14:18, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

In regards to one of the woman in the first row, is that a glass cup she's holding? That's interesting, considering how prized Roman glass was in Han China at the time, considered a foreign luxury item. Pericles of AthensTalk 14:18, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Reply

Dear Pericles: Thank you so very much for posting these magnificent illustrations. I had not seen photos of the Dahuting murals before - so they are a real treat.

As to whether the woman in the second photo is holding a glass vessel is of great interest because, if it can be determined that it was of glass, it would almost certainly be representing an imported item as the Chinese were not producing such items in glass at this early period. However, at first glance, it looks to me similar to pottery vessels of Chinese design that I have seen, but I am certainly no expert on such matters.

I have, therefore, written to a colleague and friend who is far more knowledgeable about such things for his opinion, or, whether he could suggest someone else to contact. When I hear back I will let you know what he says.

Again, many thanks for such a beautiful gallery of fascinating images - I will download them all to my computer so I can examine them in detail more easily. With my very best wishes, John Hill (talk) 21:01, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Pericles' response

John,

Thanks for the surprisingly wonderful reply! I assumed we were just going to have some fun idle conversation; I had no idea any of my normal Wikimedia stuff was going to spur a serious academic investigation.

Firstly, you may certainly use the images! I do not own them; they are public domain, by virtue of being flat 2-dimensional photographic representations of ancient artwork, with expired ownership (that only lasts 70 years in the US, and by all other accounts 100 years into the past...I think it's fairly safe to say the arists of the Eastern Han period have lost their claim to copyright). Only photographs of 3-dimensional ancient artwork have a valid claim by the photographer as being his or her licensed property. So by all means, use these images to your heart's content! They can also be found on the web if you do a Google Image search for "Dahuting Tomb" (with even better results if you search for it in Chinese with "打虎亭汉墓"). Google Books doesn't seem to be of much use, sadly (as I've already discovered), but for what it's worth, Baidu.com has an article in Chinese that seems to dive into the topic: you can read it here. Sadly I was unable to find higher-resolution images, so unfortunately you'll have to make do with them unless you can find better photographic work for the inside of the Dahuting Tomb.

In either case, I'm also no expert in Chinese ceramics, but I've seen enough images of Chinese ceramics to see how you're making the comparison (even though none of these objects seem as small or scaled down as the one the woman is precariously holding):

  • Chinese vessel (hu), Han dynasty, earthenware with glaze, Honolulu Academy of Arts
    Chinese vessel (hu), Han dynasty, earthenware with glaze, Honolulu Academy of Arts
  • Covered vessel (hu), China, Han dynasty (206 BCE – 220 CE), painted earthenware with polychrome, Honolulu Museum of Art
    Covered vessel (hu), China, Han dynasty (206 BCE – 220 CE), painted earthenware with polychrome, Honolulu Museum of Art
  • Hu vase from northern China, Han Dynasty
    Hu vase from northern China, Han Dynasty
  • Western Han painted terracotta vessel
    Western Han painted terracotta vessel
  • Han dynasty hu funerary jar, wheel-thrown earthenware with molded and applied decoration and green glaze
    Han dynasty hu funerary jar, wheel-thrown earthenware with molded and applied decoration and green glaze
  • Hu-shaped pot, tomb ware, China, Han dynasty, 206 BC to 220 AD, painted earthenware - Östasiatiska museet, Stockholm
    Hu-shaped pot, tomb ware, China, Han dynasty, 206 BC to 220 AD, painted earthenware - Östasiatiska museet, Stockholm
  • An Eastern Han lidded celadon bottle, Guangzhou City Museum
    An Eastern Han lidded celadon bottle, Guangzhou City Museum
  • A hu jar from China, probably Zhejiang Province, late Western Han dynasty or early Eastern Han dynasty, about 100 B.C.-A.D. 100, Proto-Yue ware, wheel-thrown stoneware with applied and incised decoration and green glaze, Los Angeles County Museum of Art
    A hu jar from China, probably Zhejiang Province, late Western Han dynasty or early Eastern Han dynasty, about 100 B.C.-A.D. 100, Proto-Yue ware, wheel-thrown stoneware with applied and incised decoration and green glaze, Los Angeles County Museum of Art

However, you'll notice that most of these ceramic vases imitate earlier bronze ones of the Zhou dynasty, even with the little looped handles on the sides; the object held by the woman in the Dahuting Mural lacks these features altogether. Also, it might be because the paint has faded over the centuries, but the object held by the woman in the mural above does seem to have a transparent quality to it. Or perhaps I'm wrong; perhaps it's a smooth early celadon piece decorated with white paint (given how there are a good amount of finely-painted Han-era Chinese ceramic vessels). It is at this impasse where the input of a real art historian is critical, because I am far from being one!

I don't think I can say the same about jade drinking vessels of the Han period, though. For instance, they tend to have these shapes, with lids, some with handles, ribbed decorations, certainly nothing like the ceramics above:

  • Western Han jade wine cup
    Western Han jade wine cup
  • Western Han wine vessel
    Western Han wine vessel
  • This one almost looks like a Persian rhyton; Museum of the Western Han Dynasty Mausoleum of the King of Nanyue, Guangzhou.
    This one almost looks like a Persian rhyton; Museum of the Western Han Dynasty Mausoleum of the King of Nanyue, Guangzhou.
  • Western Han jude cup, unearthed in 1964 from Luobowan M1 Guangxi
    Western Han jude cup, unearthed in 1964 from Luobowan M1 Guangxi
  • Western Han covered jade cup with gilt bronze fitting, Sackler Museum
    Western Han covered jade cup with gilt bronze fitting, Sackler Museum

I can, however, easily assert that I've seen endless varities of Roman glasswares that look nearly identical to the piece the woman is holding in that painting. For instance:

  • Gallo-Roman glassware vase, 3rd century, Musée Saint-Remi à Reims, Marne, France
    Gallo-Roman glassware vase, 3rd century, Musée Saint-Remi à Reims, Marne, France
  • Gallo-Roman glassware, 3rd century, Musée Saint-Remi à Reims, Marne, France
    Gallo-Roman glassware, 3rd century, Musée Saint-Remi à Reims, Marne, France
  • Glassware from Roman Egypt, 5th century AD, Louvre, Paris
    Glassware from Roman Egypt, 5th century AD, Louvre, Paris
  • Glassware from Roman Syria (or more precisely, Lebanon), with ivy leaves decoration, 100-300 AD, Louvre, Paris
    Glassware from Roman Syria (or more precisely, Lebanon), with ivy leaves decoration, 100-300 AD, Louvre, Paris
  • Roman glass vase from the Bagram treasures of Afghanistan (from a Kushan Empire palatial grave site), 1st century AD
    Roman glass vase from the Bagram treasures of Afghanistan (from a Kushan Empire palatial grave site), 1st century AD
  • Another Roman glass vase from Bagram, 1st century AD
    Another Roman glass vase from Bagram, 1st century AD
  • Late Gallo-Roman vase (5th century AD), Strasbourg Archaeological Museum
    Late Gallo-Roman vase (5th century AD), Strasbourg Archaeological Museum
  • Roman glass flasks with a green olive tint, 3rd century, Museo Nazionale (of Ravenna)
    Roman glass flasks with a green olive tint, 3rd century, Museo Nazionale (of Ravenna)
  • More Roman glasswares from the museum at Ravenna, Italy, 1st-2nd centuries AD
    More Roman glasswares from the museum at Ravenna, Italy, 1st-2nd centuries AD
  • Archaeological Museum in Milan, (Italy). Vaults, collection of Ancient Roman glassware, third glass case. A bottle dating from the 3rd century AD.
    Archaeological Museum in Milan, (Italy). Vaults, collection of Ancient Roman glassware, third glass case. A bottle dating from the 3rd century AD.
  • Archaeological Museum in Milan, (Italy). Vaults, collection of Ancient Roman glassware, third glass case. A bottle dating from the 2nd/3rd century AD.
    Archaeological Museum in Milan, (Italy). Vaults, collection of Ancient Roman glassware, third glass case. A bottle dating from the 2nd/3rd century AD.
  • Roman glass jug with a composite handle, 4th century AD, Eastern Mediterranean, Walters Art Museum
    Roman glass jug with a composite handle, 4th century AD, Eastern Mediterranean, Walters Art Museum

Also, I wouldn't mind emailing and sharing with you my email address, yet I don't know how much good that's going to do you or your esteemed colleagues. I'm just a simple PhD student, a peon if you will, and I'm studying a radically different academic subject (chronicles and historiographical literature of late medieval England and France). I wouldn't have any useful input for or ability to foster worthwhile dialogue with accredited experts in the field of sinology, international trade, art history, etc. I'm just excited by the prospect that I may have laid the groundwork for a serious discussion among academics who know what they're doing and can perform an exhaustive analysis of the Han artwork above and Roman glasswares more generally (while having access to databases and academic journals, especially in Chinese, that I do not possess). I honestly wasn't expecting all of that!

Notice how the woman in the Dahuting mural is holding that object effortlessly by the tip of her fingers, indicating perhaps a very lightweight object like a glassware. I would assume that ceramic vases of similar size would be a bit heavier. The artist also seems to be making a point in featuring this particular item, giving it special prominence. This is clearly a well-to-do Eastern Han woman in fancy hanfu attire. Would she be flaunting a normal ceramic vase? Or is it more likely that an exotic Western item was worthy of being painted in such a way? To demonstrate her wealth and social standing.

It might be outdated, but you could have a look at the following source for a cursory investigation into the handful of Roman glasswares found in Chinese archaeological sites and Han tombs:

  • An, Jiayao. (2002). "When Glass Was Treasured in China," in Annette L. Juliano and Judith A. Lerner (eds), Silk Road Studies VII: Nomads, Traders, and Holy Men Along China's Silk Road, 79–94. Turnhout: Brepols Publishers. ISBN 2503521789.

I compiled notes from this source (quoting it verbatim) long ago in my Sandbox page, which you can see by following the link. I did so when I was in the process of submitting the article on the Han dynasty as a featured article candidate. That was back when I was actually regularly reading a bunch of stuff about Chinese history, and when I was way more active on Wikipedia (my two-year stint in the Peace Corps and English-teaching in Kyrgyzstan largely put an end to that). In either case my interests have long ago shifted to medievalism and Western Europe, so I'm afraid that you and I belong to two radically different fields of study. If you ever want to know stuff about medieval English chronicles, then I'm your go-to guy! Sort of. Maybe. In the near future! After my PhD thesis is complete. Lol.

Cheers. Pericles of AthensTalk 03:08, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

PS: User:MisterCake was kind enough to point out on his talk page that the horn instrument being played by the man in the banquet scene on the bottom looks quite similar to a Greco-Roman salpinx. This would seem to precede the double-reed horn musical instrument from Iranian-speaking Central Asia known as the Suona, which was apparently used in China from the Jin Dynasty (265-420 AD) onwards. Perhaps that date could be pushed back a few decades to the end of Eastern Han! For a fuller image of that particular banquet scene, look here: Pericles of AthensTalk 03:33, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
  • An ancient mural painting of a late Eastern-Han period (Simplified Chinese: 东汉; Traditional Chinese: 東漢; Pinyin: Dōng Hàn) Chinese tomb showing lively scenes of a banquet (yanyin 宴饮), dance and music (wuyue 舞乐), acrobatics (baixi 百戏), and wrestling (xiangbu 相扑). From the tomb of Dahuting (Chinese: 打虎亭汉墓, Pinyin: Dahuting Han mu; Wade-Giles: Tahut'ing Han mu), on the southern bank of the Suihe River in Zhengzhou, Henan province, China (six kilometers west of Xi County, Henan). Excavations of the tomb were carried out in 1960-1961.
    An ancient mural painting of a late Eastern-Han period (Simplified Chinese: 东汉; Traditional Chinese: 東漢; Pinyin: Dōng Hàn) Chinese tomb showing lively scenes of a banquet (yanyin 宴饮), dance and music (wuyue 舞乐), acrobatics (baixi 百戏), and wrestling (xiangbu 相扑). From the tomb of Dahuting (Chinese: 打虎亭汉墓, Pinyin: Dahuting Han mu; Wade-Giles: Tahut'ing Han mu), on the southern bank of the Suihe River in Zhengzhou, Henan province, China (six kilometers west of Xi County, Henan). Excavations of the tomb were carried out in 1960-1961.

Kind regards, Pericles of AthensTalk 03:33, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Sorry (lol), one last final thought. Keep in mind these are hardly the only colorful painted images we have from the Han showing people wearing Hanfu silk robes (we also have some sculptures, which are shown below at the end): Pericles of AthensTalk 04:19, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
  • Western Han silk banner from Mawangdui, 2nd century BC
    Western Han silk banner from Mawangdui, 2nd century BC
  • A Western Han (202 BC - 9 AD) fresco depicting Confucius (and Laozi), from a tomb of Dongping County, Shandong province, China
    A Western Han (202 BC - 9 AD) fresco depicting Confucius (and Laozi), from a tomb of Dongping County, Shandong province, China
  • Detail of Confucius from that fresco
    Detail of Confucius from that fresco
  • The physical exercise chart. A painting on silk depicting the practice of Qigong Taiji; unearthed in 1973 in Hunan Province, China, from the 2nd-century BC Western Han burial site of Mawangdui, Tomb Number 3.
    The physical exercise chart. A painting on silk depicting the practice of Qigong Taiji; unearthed in 1973 in Hunan Province, China, from the 2nd-century BC Western Han burial site of Mawangdui, Tomb Number 3.
  • Queen Mother of the West (Hsiwangmu) dressing in the Han dynasty style Hanfu, on a wall mural from the late Western Han dynasty (202 BC - 9 AD) or even Xin Dynasty era (9-25 AD) tomb in Houtun Village (Houtun cun, 后屯村), Dongping County (Dongping xian, 东平县), Shandong Province.
    Queen Mother of the West (Hsiwangmu) dressing in the Han dynasty style Hanfu, on a wall mural from the late Western Han dynasty (202 BC - 9 AD) or even Xin Dynasty era (9-25 AD) tomb in Houtun Village (Houtun cun, 后屯村), Dongping County (Dongping xian, 东平县), Shandong Province.
  • Men and women dressing in the Han dynasty Shên-i (Hanfu), on a wall mural from the late Western Han dynasty (202 BC - 9 AD) or even Xin Dynasty era (9-25 AD) tomb in Houtun Village (Houtun cun, 后屯村), Dongping County (Dongping xian, 东平县), Shandong Province.
    Men and women dressing in the Han dynasty Shên-i (Hanfu), on a wall mural from the late Western Han dynasty (202 BC - 9 AD) or even Xin Dynasty era (9-25 AD) tomb in Houtun Village (Houtun cun, 后屯村), Dongping County (Dongping xian, 东平县), Shandong Province.
  • Basket from Lelang Commandery (in North Korea), a region of the Han Dynasty. Paragons of filial piety, Chinese painted artwork on a lacquered basketwork box. It was excavated from an Eastern Han tomb of what was the Chinese Lelang Commandery in what is now North Korea. Each of the figures are about 5 cm tall. It is now located at the National Museum of Seoul.
    Basket from Lelang Commandery (in North Korea), a region of the Han Dynasty. Paragons of filial piety, Chinese painted artwork on a lacquered basketwork box. It was excavated from an Eastern Han tomb of what was the Chinese Lelang Commandery in what is now North Korea. Each of the figures are about 5 cm tall. It is now located at the National Museum of Seoul.
  • Paintings on ceramic tile from the Chinese Han Dynasty (202 BC – 220 AD); these figures, cloaked in Han Chinese robes, represent guardian spirits of certain divisions of day and night. On the left is the guardian of midnight (from 11 pm to 1 am) and on the right is the guardian of morning (from 5 to 7 am). From the National Museums of Scotland, Edinburgh.
    Paintings on ceramic tile from the Chinese Han Dynasty (202 BC – 220 AD); these figures, cloaked in Han Chinese robes, represent guardian spirits of certain divisions of day and night. On the left is the guardian of midnight (from 11 pm to 1 am) and on the right is the guardian of morning (from 5 to 7 am). From the National Museums of Scotland, Edinburgh.
  • Gilt Bronze Human-Shaped Lamp, made in the Western Han Dynasty, dated 172 BC. It is a Grade I antique in China, and is now stored in the Hebei Museum.
    Gilt Bronze Human-Shaped Lamp, made in the Western Han Dynasty, dated 172 BC. It is a Grade I antique in China, and is now stored in the Hebei Museum.
  • Holding Shield and Holding Broom tomb doors, 1 of 2, China, unearthed from Lanjia Yard, Pixian County, Sichuan, Eastern Han dynasty, 25-220 AD, stone - Sichuan Provincial Museum - Chengdu, China
    Holding Shield and Holding Broom tomb doors, 1 of 2, China, unearthed from Lanjia Yard, Pixian County, Sichuan, Eastern Han dynasty, 25-220 AD, stone - Sichuan Provincial Museum - Chengdu, China
  • Holding Shield and Holding Broom tomb doors, 2 of 2, China, unearthed from Lanjia Yard, Pixian County, Sichuan, Eastern Han dynasty, 25-220 AD, stone - Sichuan Provincial Museum - Chengdu, China
    Holding Shield and Holding Broom tomb doors, 2 of 2, China, unearthed from Lanjia Yard, Pixian County, Sichuan, Eastern Han dynasty, 25-220 AD, stone - Sichuan Provincial Museum - Chengdu, China
  • Woman with a mirror, China, unearthed at Songjialin, Pixian, Sichuan, Eastern Han dynasty, 25-220 AD, ceramic - Sichuan Provincial Museum - Chengdu, China
    Woman with a mirror, China, unearthed at Songjialin, Pixian, Sichuan, Eastern Han dynasty, 25-220 AD, ceramic - Sichuan Provincial Museum - Chengdu, China

...and you can see how the tradition of painting had evolved from the previous Zhou dynasty period:

Talk to you soon! Pericles of AthensTalk 05:04, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Just found this!

I can't believe I had to find something this amazing on a stupid blog from Sina Weibo. Look at these images of Dahuting Tomb in Zhengzhou, Henan! Look how you progress down the stairway into the tomb through the barrel-arched vault and through arched doorways, with stone doors still intact and bearing fanciful reliefs. And then finally, BAM! The burial chamber with all the murals I've shown above and more! It's a shame these pictures have so much glare, due to the protective glass frames mounted against the murals. I'm afraid it would be impossible to upload these images to Wikimedia Commons, because they are shot at angles that produce 3-dimensional views of the tomb's interior. For what it's worth, look at these two in particular: here and here. I hope you and your colleagues find these useful! Pericles of AthensTalk 05:54, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

WOW! What a treat! Thanks you so much for EVERYTHING! You have really gone to so much trouble - I am very grateful. I haven't been able yet to go through it all carefully - nor have I heard back again from my friend yet (though I did write to notify him of your last postings here and the intriguing comment from "MisterCake").
I am very busy here at the moment - so I may need a day or so before I can get back to it all. I am jealous of your time in Kyrgyzstan - I always wanted to travel more in the Stans but, unfortunately, I am past my travelling days now - so I can only hope that reincarnation is real and that I will come back as a human and not a cockroach as one "friend" predicted! :) .
I hope I am not distracting you too much from your PhD studies. A million thanks once again.
All my very best wishes, John Hill (talk) 07:07, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

No problem, take your time! Let's hope that you and I both become reincarnated as something other than cockroaches. ;) Pericles of AthensTalk 14:46, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

These were just uploaded!

Have a look! They're from a Western Han tomb in Xi'an (Chang'an), Shaanxi, from the Xi'an University of Technology: Pericles of AthensTalk 17:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

I sent you an email as you requested. Cheers. Pericles of AthensTalk 14:25, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Gö Lotsawa is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Hi! Thanks for contacting me about this important issue. I am very happy to support your excellent initiative. My email address is: ... John Hill (talk) 20:59, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Great, thanks! --Gnom (talk) 21:51, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

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Australian Made

It's nice to have the girl in the article, but no offence, I'm not too sure if it's appropriate for use of the main image. I'll upload the logo itself in a couple of days or so to add with the photo. By the way, who is the girl who is featured in the picture? — AWESOME meeos ！ * ([ˈjæb.ə ət məɪ])) 07:22, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi! Good to hear from you - and thanks for your friendly comments. There is certainly no necessity for the photo to be the main image - it was just that, at the time, it was the only image - and I do think it makes the article more attractive and fun than it might easily be. I would be happy if you can get a copy of the logo to add - I no longer can find it here. The girl is my granddaughter. She just turned 12 recently and is a total delight - bright, beautiful and fun! Cheers, and all best wishes, John Hill (talk) 08:36, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Happy birthday to her! I wish you all have a delightful time too! — AWESOME meeos ！ * ([ˈjæb.ə ət məɪ])) 09:18, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

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REPLY: Thanks so much for pointing this out. I have just fixed the link (I think). Cheers, John Hill (talk) 11:56, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Just wanted to say...

John, You responded to a talk post that I recently made on the "Book of the Later Han" page. I am actually here editing on Wikipedia as part of my college History 100 class and I initially assumed you were one of my classmates. Man, was I surprised!! You I read your whole bio and you sound like a really, truly fascinating person with a lot of wisdom to share not only about Wikipedia but about all kind of interesting stuff! I just wanted to say thank you, first of all, for all of the years of amazing work you have put into Wikipedia for all the world to enjoy, and I just want you to know that if you ever just feel like telling some of your stories, I would love to hear them!

Thanks again for your feedback on "The Book of the Later Han" and I hope this message finds you well!

All the best,

Rachel Ryweber (talk) 06:15, 27 November 2017 (UTC)ryweber

Wow! That is certainly the nicest message I have received for a long, long time! Thank you so very much - nothing like a little praise to paste a BIG smile across my face! It is a beautiful afternoon here, the sun is sinking - losing the heat of the day and I am hoping our friendly wallaby family will drop by again today - I can watch them from my bed as the room opens out into the garden. No windows necessary here in the tropics - just a roller garage door in case of storms in the Wet Season.
It is hard to think of Arizona now after so many years. I hitchhiked across it a couple of times to and from El Paso, sometime between 1960 and 63 before I dropped out of UBC in Vancouver. A very kind couple in Tuscon who picked me up hitching, insisted I stay at their home while I recovered from a nasty case of the 'flu. I don't remember their names - or even their faces - or anything much about them - but I do remember the warmth - which somehow attaches in my memory to Arizona in general. Of course, Mexico was far more fun than writing university exams. I had friends there and spoke passable Spanish, and I was thought of as someone from the West Indies - las Antillas - not really a proper 'gringo'.
So, I am thinking of you there at the state university (which campus?) taking a first year history course.
I do hope you are more settled than I was at that point in life - and you will be more persistent than I was at university. Take advantage of the opportunity (i.e. "do what I say - not what I did").

I send all my very best wishes - both for your studies and your life. John Hill (talk) 07:34, 27 November 2017 (UTC) PS Maybe - if you wish to write again, use my email address: wynhill2@bigpond.net.au

Sumeric Uralic glossary

Dear John, hope you are fine. Some time ago I downloaded a comparative glossary through a link provided by your friend A. Toth.Unfortunately after moving to anothe rflat I cannot find it, neither do I remeber clearly how to get the link. Could you please help me with this? Sorry for your trouble and thank you.Aldrasto11 (talk) 02:03, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

I am sorry, Aldastro- but I can't remember an A. Toth. Also, my talk page which is supposed to be archived automatically, apparently has not have worked the past couple of times - so I can't check it. Apologies and best wishes, John Hill (talk) 06:55, 21 November 2017 (UTC)


I can remeber it was a friend of yours who commented on my idea of a prototurkic origin of some names and words in Etruscan and other ancient Italic languages. It seems it was he who in his answer provided a link to that glossary and the qwork of the group who researches the link between Hungarian and Sumerian.Aldrasto11 (talk) 04:40, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

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Thanks for the Image

John. I have displayed your image of a police sign in Lhasa on this site With your permission I would like to use it in the exhibition for Chicago's Tibetan Community planned for September JeremyPardoe (talk) 22:47, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi Jeremy! I am always thrilled when someone can find another use for one of my photos - which is why I am happy to have them posted with a minimum of restrictions. So, please go ahead and use the photo. However, would you please tell me the actual name I gave the photo as I am not sure which one you mean. All best wishes, John

I hope you are still out there, John!

We started talking ages ago and never got the chance to finish. You seem like a fascinating gent! Please reach out to me if you would like to speak further at any time. Rachel. Ryweber (talk) 05:49, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi Rachel. Nice to hear from you. Can I help with anything? Look forward to hearing from you. Cheers. John Hill (talk) 06:51, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Beothuks

Hi John, I hope this finds you well and still active on Wikipedia. I was interested in asking you about the geneology of the Anstey women who were the daughter and grandchild of a Beothuk woman. My father insisted that we had Native blood in our family and even gave me a name (one of my middle names) of a fictional Native girl because when I resembled her so much. When I had a DNA test though, no such ancestry was evident.

I know my dad was somehow related to Suzy Anstey but I’m pretty certain now it was through marriage. I am related to the Ansteys of Notre Dame Bay (not far from Twillingate) as my dad’s mother or grandmother was an Anstey (my dad was born in 1925) and theybwede originally from Twillingate before moving to Campbellton, the town that was the main salmon fishing river the Beothuks used and has had artifacts found there.

I don’t think I am related to “Suzy” but through marriage I would be related to her descendants. Would you happen to know a brief ancestry for her husband so I could connect my dad to him? It’s near impossible to find ancestry information about other families in most parts of Newfoundland without hearing an oral history and perhaps someone writing it down in their Family Bible. Birth marriage and death records were kept in local churches and rarely exist past a certwin date due to damage from moisture or fire.

Thank you for any help ou could provide and for just being interested in Beothuk ancestry. It’s so sad that they had to endure what the Europeans brought to Newfoundland. We are very proud that they are part of our history but we’d rather they were still a part of our present. The Beothuks are the most significant part of Newfoundland’s coat of arms. We remember them and every child who attends school in Newfoundland learns about them and why there aren’t any Beothuk children for them to play with.

Danette Hillier-McVeety DaniHillier (talk) 15:45, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Danette: Greetings and thanks for your friendly, interesting note. I am always pleased to find relatives, whether direct or through marriage, and any other people keen to rescue what we can of our Beothuk heritage. I have some information including a family tree collected by my mother which mentions some of the Ansteys which I would be happy to send to you - do you have an email address I could send stuff to? Looking forward to hearing from you again. Cheers and all best wishes, John Hill (talk) 21:06, 17 October 2018 (UTC). PS You can email me if you wish at: wynhill2@bigpond.net.au

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Proposed deletion of Tenzin Choegyal

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The article Tenzin Choegyal has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this biography of a living person will be deleted after seven days unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

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Austral season's greetings

Austral season's greetings
Tuck into this! We've made about three of these in the last few days for various festivities. Supermarkets are stuffed with cheap berries. Season's greetings! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:39, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Please see comment on Flying Fox talk page

Hi John - just to let you know that I've made a comment for discussion about the photo you added to the Flying fox (cablecar) page a few years ago, on the talk page over there. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:28, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Nagqu

Hello dearest John. Long time no see! We should keep in contact more! Hope you're well. I was just trying to improve sourcing and this source seems to state Ngari not Nagqu on it being called Yangtong. Would you be interested in helping me get the article up to a higher standard? It covers 450,000 km2 so should be decent! If you could rewrite and fully source the history at least that would be something, I'll try to improve the rest!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:58, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi John, great to hear from you and thanks! Yes I think the history needs sourcing and some reinforcement work, no unsourced paragraphs etc. If you're busy with your book though don't worry about it! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:10, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Saldang

Hi, can you find anything more on this Dolpo village?♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:48, 31 August 2019 (UTC)


Reply

Hi again! sorry - I can't find anything more on Saldang so far but, unfortunately, I stored many of my reference books on Tibet and Nepal in boxes some months ago to make room for the books I am referring to for my Chinese translations, making them difficult to access. I will get back to you if and when I turn anything up. Also, I have had another look at Nagqu and am thinking it should probably be broken up into two articles - one on the town itself and one on the prefecture (or region). Does this seem sensible to you - and, if so, do you have the time and energy to split them up and rewrite them? I would be happy to help - but I don't think I can spare the time at present to do the heavy lifting. Sorry. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 01:07, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

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Kokyar: Qira or Keriya County?

Hey- in the last few days, I have done some work on the English Wikipedia pages for Qira and Keriya counties in Khotan Prefecture, Xinjiang, and I wanted to ask you about your excellent Kokyar page. Isn't Kokyar in Keriya and not Qira? Am I getting something wrong here? I want to be able to link your page on either the Qira or Keriya county page. Thanks for any help. Geographyinitiative (talk) 22:04, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Reply

Hi - Thanks so much for pointing this out. On checking it seems clear that I must have made a mistake placing Kokyar township in Qira county. However, checking on the internet I found different answers as to which county Kokyar is actually in. One site places it in Keryia county (see: https://www.refworld.org/docid/58f9cb676.html), while another places it in "Yecheng county of Kashgar" see (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/35-killed-in-landslide-in-chinas-xinjiang-province/articleshow/53108201.cms). So, I don't know what to do until we can find an authoritative source of information. Please let me know if you discover anything of interest. All best wishes, Cheers, John Hill (talk) 01:51, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Keriya Town

Hello- request comment on this page you made a while back./ Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:10, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello again! I've been slowly building Wikipedia's information base on Khotan and Kashgar, and I have made a new discovery today. Responding to the basic problem behind your comment here: [3], I think I have made a more correct identification for the Kokyar described on the Kokyar page you made. There is indeed a Kokyar in Keriya/Yutian County (over 400 km away to the southeast of Kargilik Town), but there is ALSO a Kokyar Township just about 50 km south of Kargilik Town. This must be the Kokyar I you were talking about when you made the Kokyar page. I plan to make the necessary changes this week. (Our conversation is a little confusing to me, so let me know if you don't understand what I'm saying.) Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:46, 13 April 2020 (UTC) (modified)
Reply: Thanks so much for the excellent detective work! It seems to me you have solved the puzzle! Congratulations, and thanks again - i really appreciate the work you have done on this. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 02:55, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
If you like that, check out the Kokyar page now! Made a lot of new additions. Couldn't find an uploadable photograph. You may like the maps I've added. Loved looking up those old books you mentioned. I plan to move on to some towns in Tashurkgan County next week. Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:40, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Oh hey, I just now put two and two together and realized that it's probably you that wrote the "Through the Jade Gate to Rome: A Study of the Silk Routes during the Later Han Dynasty" book. Is there a digital version of this book that we can link to? I found Stein's 1912 book. Thanks for any help. Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:51, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Also, if you have Uyghur names for the villages in Kokyar, let me know and I will add them. Right now, the only names I could find were the Chinese character names for the villages (except for one village, Outunsu / Otan-su). Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:56, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
We may be tempted to think that a place like Kokyar isn't really that important or significant, but the population of Kokyar is more than that of the country of Palau. It's very sad that I can only put together the relatively short entry that I have, and it's extremely sad that I couldn't find the Uyghur names for the villages. Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:28, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi again! Thanks for all the work you have been doing - it is a relief to me to know someone is interested in these small but strategically important places on the ancient trade routes into Xinjiang, and adding to them. Unfortunately, I am practically totally bedridden now and not able to focus as much as I would like on my studies. However, I have had a look through most of the old books and papers I have here at home relating to the region and cannot find anything more worth adding. Other than a few references by 19th and early 20th century foreign travellers, there is very little available on Kokyar that I know of other than official reports in Chinese.
I think the main reason there is so little information available is because there have been so few outside visitors in recent times) There was a big drop in visits to the region after the rebellions and battles between warlords leading up to the invasion of China by Japan and the battles between the Kuomintang and the Communists. After the Communist victory in 1949 the region was basically closed to foreigners - especially after China began testing atomic weapons in the region. My wife and I were extremely fortunate to be among the first foreigners allowed to travel along the old southern branch of the Silk Routes from Kashgar to Dunhuang in 2011 for 3 glorious weeks with our own vehicle guide and driver - we were SO very fortunate! I don't imagine it would be easy to repeat such a journey these days. Thanks again for all you are doing - i do hope you will keep a watch on entries from the region. If I come across any articles which may be of use to you I will let you know and then send them on to you if you would give me your email address. All my very best wishes.John Hill (talk) 01:27, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Sorry - I meant Keriya Town not Kokyar in the note above - please excuse me.John Hill (talk) 01:29, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

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Insertion of photos of your father

Please do not put photos of your father into random articles. There is no historical context for these, basically they are spam. - Ahunt (talk) 22:56, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I wondered when I uploaded this photo whether it would be acceptable, but I thought it was of historical interest (as there are almost no other photos available of the medical rescues service provided by the Royal Canadian Air Force during WW II). I would appreciate your advice as to whether this photo should be used at all (and, if so, in which articles?). Perhaps is I removed his name from the caption it would be acceptable? Whatever, i will look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 23:08, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

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