User talk:Jinnai/Archive 1

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Welcome!

Hello, Jinnai, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Mak (talk) 04:55, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Ishaq II

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Page renaming

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Changing preferences

Maybe you use Firefox. I don't but I have now read that it may automatically fill in the "Old password" field, so when you submit the form, it thinks you want to change your password to an empty string. If this happens then clear the "Old password" field before saving preferences. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:29, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar, but it wasn't my idea. I read it at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Different password for saving preferences? from somebody who read it in yet another place. I remembered there had been help desk posts about it recently so I found and notified 3 posters including you. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:55, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

New page

I believe you intended to create User:Jinnai/signature not Jinnai/signature. I have moved the page for you. Jon513 (talk) 18:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

About signatures, it's helpful to have part of it in English to help those who don't speak or read Japanese. Moocows rule 01:50, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

About Caramelldansen Article

If you found a reliable resource it doesn't matter if its in japanese, can you forward me the link please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruakuu (talk • contribs) 20:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh nevermind, I saw your add on the discussion section, I will check it out later, many thanks. --Ruakuu (talk) 20:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Fable 2

Hi, it is very non-constructive to continually edit an article - especially one that is partial lock down - without discussing your edits. Two of the source, as I have said on the talk page are simple not reliable under wiki policies (I can provide you with a link if you are unfamiliar. Indeed, in general websites should not be used for referencing reasons. It seems like you are new to wiki and i understand that there are many things to learn here. Indeed, a third undo would lead to a 24 hour ban. It might be better to discuss this on the articles talkpage. If I can be of any help in pointing you to all or any wiki policies you are unfamiliar with please let me know. The7thdr (talk) 19:22, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply, and doing so explains why it makes sense to leave a comment after an edit - it helps to clarify. You may be correct about 1up, my point however, is that it is comment about a thread in a forum and this is not clear for the edit inserted in wiki. The same thread that seems to find so many "bugs" lists; such "bugs" as not being able to have multiple saves, yet this is clearly - and a stated - deliberate design choice by the designers. There are also multiple comments on threads about Fable 2 causing the RROD, yet no one is taking that seriously. The issue is that the XBOX itself is such a shoddy piece of hardware that many of the "bugs" may just as easily related to the hardware and not the software. Indeed, this seems most likely given that - based on unit sales and overall threads/users - so few are finding they have the issues cited. This is not to say that there may not be problems - as console software seems to have gone the same-way as PC software and is being released before it is fully debugged, this would not surprise me - the issue is what should be considered reliable in a WIKI article. Does that make me sound a tad "anal"? Probably :)The7thdr (talk) 04:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, You maybe correct but we have to be careful of wording. The third most read and commented thread on the board is one that claims that Fable 2 "hacks" the xbox 360 and overclocks it! Are we to take that seriously? Considering the unit sales of the game, the comments on the board, the people that seem to be having issues is tiny. The Xbox 360 is generally plagued with a large number of base units that are "shoddy" to put it mildly. Go to any message board for any game and you will see messages from a small number of users claiming the latest game "broke" their counsel or is "bugged". If the issue was as great as seems to be suggested in the article than the returns would be so large they would be undeniable in the media.

I do play fable 2 and while there are certainly technical limitations with the game that maybe considered unacceptable - the problems with MP and the unacceptable lagg when entering menus - experienced by all players and indeed reviewers, the sort of issues being cited in the wiki article seem limited to a small few people on a message board. While this maybe worth mentioning it needs to be put in context The7thdr (talk) 03:31, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Just time for one comment: Websites and magazines never have any sort of peer review; peer review is a standardised academicThe7thdr (talk) 20:16, 17 November 2008 (UTC) process. :)

Incomplete FAR

Please follow the instructions at WP:FAR to complete the FAR you initiated for Chrono triger, notifying parties and posting the notices back to the FAR as in the sample at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Asthma. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:31, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Popotan main females.jpg)

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Re: Your proposed FL removals

Please do not do any more until we get more comments on the True Tears one, which is going to stay an FL per WP:SNOWBALL which I think you should read.--十八 08:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Good, because I saw you going for List of Tsukihime, Lunar Legend episodes.--十八 08:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Withdraw your nomination. You deserve a serious trout slap from me the FL contributor and me the FLRC director for screwing up in both regards. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 09:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

...this is really, really bad. Episode articles have to prove notability. Episode lists do not. Very, very big difference there. WP:FICT doesn't change anything in regards to current episode lists; if anything, the current RfC on notability came out very strongly in favor of episode lists (not lists in general). Withdraw your nomination. You're basically the chicken running around in the dark with its head chopped off at this point. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 09:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

...wow, this is even more moronic. Per the guidelines of WP:ANIME's assessment department, episode lists use the start-C-B-FL track because it's much more appropriate to measure the quality of the list. Furthermore, any reception information belongs in the main article, as it's more relevant there and this isn't shooting for FA. Doesn't matter whether the main article is about a visual novel or not; you cover the anime's reception there regardless. Did you stop to think for a second why every single anime/manga FL doesn't have a reception section? It's inappropriate there. Good heavens, withdraw the nomination. You don't have an iota of consensus here. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 09:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Good. I moved the reception section from List of Popotan episodes (which is decently close to FL if you make a good effort) to Popotan. Take care to be more circumspect in the future and realize that there are community-sanctioned exceptions to WP:NOTE. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 09:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Re:YuYu Hakusho episode summaries

I've been struggling for time to back to some of my old FLs, but in some cases, the summaries are kinda appropriate. YuYu Hakusho is the epitome (outside of Dragonball Z) of the "episode drags on way too long on single fight scene while enemy charges super-powerful attack and everyone watches and gapes," so the summaries usually encapsulate the general gist of the episode. And remember guidelines are generalized comments in regards to these articles; the 100-word summaries are a relative minimum and assuredly not an absolute one. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 23:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Essay

Well that explains why I forgot who you are. Your sig contains no characters I am capable of interpreting, so I tend to think of you as "string of characters in a blue box," which is not useful in remembering who someone is. :) Phil Sandifer (talk) 16:50, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Anime Series

Replied. ηoian ‡orever ηew ‡rontiers 03:46, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Replied again. ηoian ‡orever ηew ‡rontiers 04:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

PR request

Sorry, I'm too busy just now to help with another peer review. Good luck with the list, though! Scartol • Tok 21:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

GAN edit

When removing Harry Potter in translation, in this edit [1] you left your name. It appears as if you are reviewing Nights in Rodanthe. --maclean 05:07, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of User:Jinnai/essay

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If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on [[ Talk:User:Jinnai/essay|the talk page]] explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the article or have a copy emailed to you. じんない 20:48, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Popotan

Anyone have reliable sources for Popotan being the one that propelled the Caramelldansen dance into a meme?Jinnai (talk) 17:33, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

First of all, your question seems a bit confusing. Popotan animation loop was used with other songs before Caramelldansen song was added. It became the formal meme after it. The dance is in the animation loop. I don't see why it needs a reliable resource, because the article only explains the meme as it is, and doesn't go into to much detail that can't be proved.

All of the content with unreliable sources was removed long ago and depured by various editors of wikipedia.--Ruakuu (talk) 09:49, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Not quite. This statement:

"It was not long before parts from the introduction of the PC game were captured and posted as small GIF animations for people to use."

is clearly stating something that would be defined as original research by Wikipedian standards unless you can site a source.Jinnai (talk) 17:16, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh that part. I don't really see much of a problem with that, other editors including me didn't find that much relevant, because the thruth is that, the caramelldansen came from the opening of the pc game, the popotan opening of the game is here. If we are getting really strict on this well yeah, it will be hard to citate that from a reliable resource now, I haven't seen any good source till now. Still looking for it.

Meanwhile I will document those new japanese sources posted by _dk. they are really good. Im looking that this meme is more popular in japan so there is a good change that I can find good articles in japanese. --Ruakuu (talk) 18:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:MOMO -Xenosaga III.jpg)

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Speedy deletion of Jinnai/Momo

A tag has been placed on Jinnai/Momo requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.) or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable

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Orphaned non-free media (File:MOMO -Xenosaga I.jpg)

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RfC

I saw your RfC on the Wild ARMs series talk page, and I was wondering what exactly that is? I read the description there and on the page for it, but I'm still confused. Is it something editors such as myself don't need to respond to; something handled by the head guys here? Or is it some kind of discussion editors should respond to? I was going to just ask there, but I'm a new user, and after what I read, decided it was probably smarter to just ask directly here. Hope that's alright. TheBrokenSky (talk) 02:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

We have been having serious problems with diruption caused by the naming both for the namespace and inside the article about the naming of the game and invidisual games by extension. WT:VG was asked for a neutral 3rd-party opinion by someone and when I, after discussing it and coming to some basic agreements, went in and posted some ideas, I was accussed by one of the same members causing the conflict of being a scokpuppet. At this point since I had tried to be neutral I did not want to get seriously involved with someone who appeared to not following rules reguarding building consensus and instead appeared to be owning the page. However, this person was not alone and therefore I did not want to report a talk just on the 1 indivisual.じんない 03:10, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Who accused you of being a sock and was owning the page? I've been hoping to clean up the Wild ARMs pages, but saw all the stuff on the talk page. This issue interests me, but I want to try and stay away from someone who's trouble... I think your mistunderstoof my question, though. I'm confused by what a RfC itself is and what an editor's rule in it is. Is it something handled by admins or mods or whatever they call the people who are in charge here? Or are editors such as myself expected to post something there? TheBrokenSky (talk) 03:34, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Just so you know, TheBrokenSky, I suspect you of being yet another sockpuppet of SyberiaWinx / 67.163.193.239.

And Jinnai, I, too, wonder who accused you of being a sockpuppet... You make it sound like I did, but I assure you I never did such a thing. You can go and check. I didn't say I was suspecting you, I said I was suspecting your interlocutor (i.e. "Akari Kanzaki"... and as it turned out, an admin agreed with me and blocked her).[2] Erigu (talk) 03:46, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Whether or not I was agreeing with her (which I wasn't exactly), was a term we decided based on the merits of wikipedia's ~~policies~~ guidelines for naming, which goes by the most common name usage, which given reliable sources use both, should be the one used on the discs since those are the most likely ones shown. When I came and pointed that out and pointed out what policies we use to decide, that's when I was accused. That is why I believe you went to far and appeared to be owning the page, you appeared to be ingoring a 3rd-party neutral attempt to define how we handle acronyms for other games and our general guidelines for naming.じんない 03:51, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Again, I never accused you of anything. Link to the diffs, please?

What I did tell you though (I would really appreciate if you could go and re-read my initial reply, as you apparently weren't paying that much attention) was that the different Wild Arms games had been released in English language by several publishers who used different capitalizations, hence the problem. SyberiaWinx argues that we should use "Wild ARMs", the capitalization used by XSEED Games (most of the time, anyway... they're not that consistent and also used "Wild Arms" and "Wild ARMS"), whereas I think we should use "Wild Arms", as that's how all the other publishers capitalize the title (and on top of being more common, it's also less fancy, which is a plus for Wikipedia, I think). Erigu (talk) 03:58, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Is this trigger-happy fellow who you were referring to, Jinnai? I could certainly see where you would get that idea. I don't think I've even been here a day, yet I'm apparently a sockpuppet because I'm interested in cleaning up the Wild ARMs pages? It is a dark day for RPG fans everywhere. And just what is wrong with my username? Do you have some problem with literature, Erigu? TheBrokenSky (talk) 03:53, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's the guy.じんない 03:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Let's just ignore him for now. I can't deal with those types. So, what's this RfC thing? TheBrokenSky (talk) 03:57, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Request for Comment is where users can go for a broader opinion on what should be done when consensus doesn't appear to be reachable and a neutral 3rd party assessment doesn't appear to be help/is ignored.じんない 03:59, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

1) I didn't ignore you. Again, go ahead and re-read my reply. Seriously, now.

2) Do you realize the dispute had been over for months when you first posted in that article's talk page? Erigu (talk) 04:02, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

For the namespace, I think that is probably good, but I think when describing it, if they are released and shown to be noted by relaiable soruces by both, we should say that. That's what WP:NEUTRALITY says to do. In this case since both are used officially and commented by such sorces with the naming scheme, so they should be given the weight deserved.じんない 04:03, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Er... Come again? The "namespace"? What "namespace"? ^^;

Also, only some games have been capitalized as "Wild ARMs" for English language markets, whereas all games (except for one) have been capitalized as "Wild Arms" for English language markets. The specifics have been discussed to death on the talk page, but if you need a recap, I guess I could do that?

(also, did you re-read my reply? it would be nice if you could confirm that you were mistaken about me becoming "unicivil" to you and accusing you of sockpuppetry, really...) Erigu (talk) 04:14, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Jinnai. So, users have nothing to do with it? You know, this guy is really getting on my nerves. I read the discussion since the issue interests me. Looks like a lot of other people who showed an interest in it were banned because this guy can't support his claims with proof, so he instead attacks those who might prove to be a "threat". And who the heck is SyberiaWinx? I don't see anyone by that username involved in the discussion? And Wikipedia has no users with a name even remotely similiar to that. You should take a chill pill or something. And don't harass Jinnai for speaking up about something, either. There's no law that says you can't post on a talk page just because it's been empty for a while. TheBrokenSky (talk) 04:05, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Looks like a lot of other people who showed an interest in it were banned

Just you. Again and again and again.

who the heck is SyberiaWinx?

That would be you.

I don't see anyone by that username involved in the discussion?

Sure there is. Remember when you were trying to link to your Rule of Rose fansite? Yeah, that was a while ago.... That's the alias of the webmistress. Your alias. An alias that kept popping up again and again as you kept coming back with new socks.

don't harass Jinnai for speaking up about something, either. There's no law that says you can't post on a talk page just because it's been empty for a while.

There was no dispute anymore. That was my point. So I'm not sure what Jinnai is trying to "resolve", here.

Yeah, I know, you're trying to revive it, but hey. Abusing sockpuppets isn't going to help you with your case, really. Erigu (talk) 04:14, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

"namespace" is the article or section name. FE: Wild Arms (series) is the article's namespace and "Series devleopment" is a section namespace.

Even if it is only one that has it that way, it needs to be stated clearly within the article's body. Furthemore it does not matter what the company thinks except when there is some dispute. If official source reviewers refer to as one thing, we refer to it as that. They take precidence over official naming. When there is a dispute about naming, we generally use the official name. In this case it's going to be Wild Arms, but it must be clearly stated that not all games follow this model.じんない 04:25, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

(again, do we agree that I never accused you of sockpuppetry? ^^;)

"namespace" is the article or section name.

I see, thank you.

When there is a dispute about naming, we generally use the official name. In this case it's going to be Wild Arms, but it must be clearly stated that not all games follow this model.

Like I said, there's just one game (Wild Arms XF) that was never (as far as I know, anyway) capitalized as "Wild Arms" for the English language market... but yeah sure, I don't have a problem with mentioning that. In fact I was asking for feedback on that very issue when SyberiaWinx reappeared and derailed the whole thing once again.[3] Should we change the "namespace" of that one particular game, or keep it as "Wild Arms XF" for consistency's sake and mention the "Wild ARMs" capitalization in the article's body? Erigu (talk) 04:48, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow. You are really...messed up. I checked out this fansite, and there's no user named SyberiaWinx there, either. There's also about six admins, from the looks of the staff list. Seems to me like you're just looking for people outside of Wikipedia to attack, because they are not here to defend themselves. If you have some kind of personal issue with this girl, go take it up with her, and leave me out of it. There is a dispute over the title, and it was never resolved, because anyone who tries to support the opposing side gets harassed like this by you. It's really annoying. TheBrokenSky (talk) 04:26, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I checked out this fansite, and there's no user named SyberiaWinx there, either.

I wouldn't expect you to try very hard...[4]

If you have some kind of personal issue with this girl, go take it up with her, and leave me out of it.

Oh, Syb...

There is a dispute over the title, and it was never resolved, because anyone who tries to support the opposing side gets harassed like this by you.

You're the only one who keeps arguing. And the fact you're using blatant bad faith and sockpuppets pretty much means you'll never go anywhere. But you've been told as much already. Many times. Erigu (talk) 04:46, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean, Jinnai. The rules clearly state an exception with titles that contain acronyms, which is what we have here. Do you have an email you are willing to give out? I saw that Erigu seems to claim what XSEED has and has not said, so I'd like to forward you their email on title confirmation, if I still have it. TheBrokenSky (talk) 04:34, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

The rules clearly state an exception with titles that contain acronyms, which is what we have here.

Not necessarily. Again, other publishers capitalize the title as "Wild Arms". And "Arms" could very well stand for the word "arms" (as in "weapons"), the plural of the acronym "ARM" and, in later works, the acronym "ARMS". Just because XSEED Games appears to favor the "Wild ARMs" capitalization, that doesn't necessarily makes all the other publishers wrong. But you know that already and don't care, obviously...

I'd like to forward you their email on title confirmation

Of course you would. And it would be so much better (but still irrelevant for Wikipedia, as emails can't be used as sources) if your supposed "emails" weren't your own fabrications. You've pulled that kind of act before.[5] Erigu (talk) 04:46, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

No, I am talking about the lead section. [6][7]. There's just 2 examples of reliable sources stating otherwise as well, though the former does use both Arms and ARMs. Remember, we use what reliable sources say at Wikipedia first, not what the company says.じんない 04:43, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

The publishers aren't considered reliable sources? How does that work? ^^; Erigu (talk) 04:46, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Publishers are considered "too close" to the source. See WP:V and WP:RS for clarification. Basically they try to prmoote what they want promoted. The problems comes in especially for titles or other items that were translated. Talk:Roronoa Zoro has a great discussion as to why it is a problem to ~~use~~ go with what companies use and why Wikipedia considers publishers too close to the source.じんない 04:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Isn't the whole "promotion" angle completely irrelevant, here, though? I mean, we're talking about the title. It's not like it could be argued publishers might embellish stuff to sell their product regarding the title, right? ^__^; Erigu (talk) 04:54, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Not according to policy it isn't and that's what says what goes. If you feel it should be, then take it up at WP:V and WP:RS as to why the titles, primary sources should be best for games. As it stands now, the only real contention is that the lead does not mention that some reviewers and at least 1 game have referred to the game as Wild ARMs to satisfy neutrality.じんない 05:04, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Not according to policy it isn't and that's what says what goes.

'Sounds like an awfully literal interpretation of that guideline to me... ^^;;

If you feel it should be, then take it up at WP:V and WP:RS as to why the titles, primary sources should be best for games.

Well, not just for games... ^^;

By the way, you never replied... Do we agree that you were mistaken about me accusing you of sockpuppetry, ignoring you, being uncivil to you, etc? Erigu (talk) 05:12, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm just going to ignore Erigu from now on, since he's just sprouting nonsense. Jinnai, still, let me know if you want that email. It doesn't just confirm the title, it explains why it's capitalized that way and why "Wild Arms" can be found in places. The articles you provided were just typed up by people working for that site. They really know nothing official. Since the game logo is all-caps, it's not unnatural that they would wrongly assume the title to be "Wild Arms", and that's only worsened by the fact that's what's used in legal lines. If you have played the games, the title makes sense as "Wild ARMs". In the first game, for example, it refers to the backlash of ARMs that causes disasters and results in people looking upon the weapon as something evil. In the fourth one, it refers to both ARMs that have taken on the form of monsters, actually called "Wild ARMs" in the game context, and also the "Resistance Impulse". The latter is when a gun synchronises with it's new user, altering their genes. The process results in the gun going wild and causing damage to the surrounding area/people. And the WA5 site also confirmed the title as an acronym with a unique meaning in each game, as I recall. Referring to just weapons is wrong, and the unique meaning is lost with the title as "Wild Arms". And there is still the acronym rule, and the general consensus, which supports "Wild ARMs". I saw the discussion on the video games and series talk pages, and that's what seems to be the case. TheBrokenSky (talk) 05:09, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I saw the discussion on the video games and series talk pages

Yeah, you "saw" it. Right. Erigu (talk) 05:12, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Jinnai, with all this clutter, I stil am not sure of your answer. Should editors such as myself post something in the RfC area you created, or is this for staff only? TheBrokenSky (talk) 06:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

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