User:Celestianpower/Archive2

This page is an archive of the second 20 topics on my talk page, lodged between the 5th of August 2005 and the 15th of August 2005. Please do not modify this page. If you wish to revive a discussion here, please don't hesitate to copy it back to my current talk page and add your comment per my policy.

Edits with cut and paste?

Thanks for the welcome. One issue that came up immediately is an edit problem. I can't cut text, or even highlight it, or even select in any text window. The only way I can get to a text window is by picking on a checkbox, then tabbing until I get to the text box. Once inside the text box, I must use arrow keys to move around, as picking with the mouse causes the cursor to disappear. I have tried a reboot and tried the AOL browser and IE browser. Both have the same problem. Note that this problem is limited to all Wikipedia windows, in edit and browse modes. Non-Wikipedia windows don't have a problem. I do have some rather stringent security settings, such as "Disable Java", could this be the problem ? Any help would be much appreciated. If you don't know the answer, do you know who I should ask ? StuRat 19:29, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Right, well, firstly re-enable Java, that can't help. And secondly, GET Firefox!!! Its safer, more secure, more customisable, easier yto use, not made by money-raged lunatics ...etc... Get firefox website. If you do these 2 things and it still doesn't work; come back and we'll see again. Let me know if it does/doesn't. Good luck! --Celestianpower ^talk 19:55, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I will download firefox and try that. Note that your link points to getfirefox.org, which is a spoof site with ads, not the true www.getfirefox.org, however. I am reluctant to disable my security settings, but will do so just as a test. I should have results later today. --StuRat 20:27, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

I apologise. Just go to The Firefox homepage then. --Celestianpower ^talk 21:47, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

I tried FireFox, it works great, all problems fixed, thanks ! --StuRat 22:09, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Next problem, I go to the "Returns to scale" article (that's economics) and select the Discussion tab and I get an error that it is trying to open "index.php", which it identifies as a PhotoParade Album. It then says I lack sufficient software to open this file. I was expecting a standard text/HTML page. --StuRat 02:32, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, I tried it and it worked fine for me. Umm, Tell me a bit about your computer, how old is it? And what Operating system are you using? Do you have any Anti Virus Protection? Try some other talk pages. Is it the same? --Celestianpower ^talk 09:18, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I have a very old, underpowered IBM Laptop, running Windows 98, with only memory of 64Mb and speed of 433. This error seems to be related to graphics being used in the pages. For example, I can edit this section just fine, but if I try to edit your top section ("My talk page policy..."), I get the same error (I just tried the edit button there as a test, I wouldn't actually change anything there). I don't run any anti-virus software like Norton or Macafee (mainly because my underpowered system can't handle them), but do have rather strict security settings to prevent little nasties from invading my system. StuRat 20:51, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I have some new info. This problem ALWAYS occurs when I pick "edit this page" at the top and NEVER occurs when I pick "edit" next to a section name. Is there some additional software used in the first case that isn't needed in the second case ? StuRat 17:28, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, a workaround is to only edit the small [edit] links. If you want to edit the top of a page then click one further down and in the address bar it should say section=foo. Change the foo (whatever it may be) to 1 or 0 (I can't remember which) and it'll edit that bit. Secondly, you do need a new Laptop but they're expensive. The other thing you could try is getting Linux and using that instead of Windows. It may be impractical but it will probably work. Otherwise, try an email to the admins, they might know more than I do. Sorry I can't be of more help. :( Good luck! --Celestianpower ^talk 17:52, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I tried that and got the same error (BTW, it's 0). How do I find a list of admin email addresses ? Is there one you would recommend ? I do plan to buy a new computer with Linux as the O/S, but will need to scrape some cash together first, which could be difficult as I am currently unemployed. I see a Catch 22 at work here...I only have time to contribute to Wikipedia when unemployed, at which times I lack the funds the buy the required hardware to do so, LOL. StuRat 18:32, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Try posting the question here - at the Village pump. --Celestianpower ^talk 18:48, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I posted the question there. Thanks for the help ! StuRat 19:27, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I see that you've found the solution - Well done! Good luck in all future WikiVentures! --Celestianpower ^talk 10:18, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Spolied Vegetarians

You wrote:

If you're rich and you're living in a rich society, you may eat a healthy diet with nearly whatever restrictions so long as you are allowed to cherry pick your food and take any required supplements.

I guess I can eat just apples and live very well. If I have the money, I can probably separate the minute amounts of protein from the sugar-rich apple. If the protein lacks some sort of essential amino acid, I'll take some algae- or bacteria-based supplements. I'll also take linseed oil pills and maybe some multivitamins and fiber pills.

As long as you have money, you can do anything you want.

Vegetarianism, in my opinion, is for spoiled kids. When you eat vegetables, you discard lots of tissues. Humans cannot digest fiber. Therefore, many plants' roots, stems and leaves must be abandoned. We are not cows. We are closer to tigers. If I have the money, I can probably feed a great white shark using only plant-derived fats and proteins. I only need to throw away fibres and sugars.

I know some of you may say you're eating a whole cabbage. So what? Cabbages are grown in a highly fertilized field. To get your cabbage, it takes over 100 years of cultivation. Otherwise, you get weeds. These vegetables are on the top of the food chain. They consume nitrogen supplied from fertilizers. And it takes lots of efforts to keep bugs away from your cabbage. These are not normal wild plants.

Anyway, eating fruits only is not for the rest of us. -- Toytoy 18:29, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

- From talk:Fructarianism

Are you saying you never eat vegetables? And the meat you eat comes from the same (and most likely worse) "cultivation" methods as my diet (as a vegetarian). Furthermore, a vegetarian diet is cheaper. Meat costs more money than vegetables therefopre you don't need to be 'spoiled' to be a vegetarian. A vegetarian diet has also been proved to be more varied so I have no idea how you can believe such things. Have they been researched? --Celestianpower ^talk 09:46, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Fact: People cannot eat most wild plants. We simply cannot digest fiber. We have to consume highly refined plant parts. Either we grow high quality vegetables and manually process them or we let the cows do the job.

Eating an apple after a beef and potato meal is totally different from eating fruits and nuts only. Religious ideas aside, it will be highly inefficient to grow so many fruits and nuts for everybody on Earth. This is not a workable answer for all of us. Outside the U.S., most of us use less developed lands to raise farm animals. Many of us feed our pigs with leftover foods and unedible fish parts. That's why a total vegetarian solution is considered unrealistic by me. -- Toytoy 10:06, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

1. We could grow our own or at least some of our own (I know; not all that practical)
2. And buing Organic involves less "manual processing" (although still quite a bit I agree).
3. Less developed land to raise farm animals? This is equally bad, if not worse, than growing vegetables on this land. People in Africa/S. America/Indonesia cut down rainforests, graise cows on the for a couple of years then move on because they've created savvannah or desert. This is not good. We need the rainforests, not more desert. It takes a few days to destroy a rainforest but 50 years to grow a new one.
4. We should be putting these things into composting and using the compost to grow new vegetables.

Don't get me wrong, I eat eggs and milk but only organic free range because I need to know that the animals weren't raised in a large metal barn with no natural light and magnesium on the floor that gives the animals very painful sores and with so little movement (because they're so packed in) that they literally get to the stage where they can't move. That is wrong. --Celestianpower ^talk 10:22, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Please allow me to fix your wiki coding, or it will be very difficult to read your words. I did not change your words.

People in Africa/S. America/Indonesia cut down their rainforests with or without the meat industry. You still need land to grow plant foods. Yes, the area used to grow grains shall be smaller but it will be offset by the endless growth of population in a matter of years. There will still be famine and poverty unless they take their pills and wear their condoms. Otherwise, there will be more grain fields and more plant food wastes. We feed our livestock with unedible parts, what do we do if we don't eat animals as well?

In addition, fields to grow grains consume more water, more infrastructure, more fertilizer and more pesticide than livestock farms. That means more waste and more pollution. Admit it, vegetarianism is not a viable solution. The more artificial restrictions (no eggs, no milk, fruits only ...), the more problems. -- Toytoy 11:21, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you.

If it was just Africans/S. Americans/Indonesians cutting down the rainforests then that would be better than multinationals doing the same thing but I do take your point about population growth. There is enough natural resources in this Earth for each and every person to live without needing to cut down rainforests ...etc... but they don't do it this way. They do it the cheapest and "Easiest" way possible. So what if it's unsustainable.

You didn't take my composting point. Also think about crop rotations. Legumes, clover and some other plants actually re-nitrate (if thats a real word) the soil. This means that one doesn't need to keep cutting down more and more rainforests. A totally vegetarian world is sustainable and viable but we have to go about it right yet none of the World leaders want to take this on. They prefer to kill their plannet by raising livestock on rainforest land and doing nothing to stop it turning into desert. Its a disgrace. --Celestianpower ^talk 11:31, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I can't help but participating in this fascinating conv. At the risk of offending creationists out there, our bodies have essentially the same digestive system as other primates. This would suggest we would benefit from a similar diet, which is primarily vegetarian, with meat on very rare occasions. I particularly try to avoid red meat, such as beef, which is the worst for us (causing heart disease, prostate cancer, etc.), and eat things like salmon, which is supposed to be healthy (due to omega 3 fats). There are some indications that this "rare meat" diet was what our bodies are designed to handle. An example is the appendix, which seems designed to keep microbes safe which are needed for the digestion of raw meat. If not "put aside", they would presumably be pushed out of the system due to the long stretches between meat meals. Since we no longer eat raw meat, except for sushi and steak tartar, the appendix is no longer as important, except for the lessons we learn from it. --StuRat 21:18, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

That's fine: Just dive in! I thought that the appendix was to store some bacteria that helped to break down grass from when we ate nothing but grass. Or maybe that's the spleen? Anyway, after hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, it has become redundant. --Celestianpower ^talk 11:06, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

No way, digesting grass would require a total change in our digestive system and lifestyle. Ruminants, which eat grass, need 4 stomaches and have to eat almost constantly to get adequate nutrition from grass, which has very little food value. I wouldn't exactly say it was evolution that made the appendix redundant, but rather our mastery of fire, which allows us to cook meat and hence make it safer and more digestable. I suppose the sum of skills and knowledge passed down to subsequent generations could be considered a type of "technological evolution", but it's definitely not the classic "biological evolution" of Darwin. BTW, I sure hope you didn't forget my technical question above, this is really quite a problem. --StuRat 21:18, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I may be wrong however that is what my biology teacher told me; and we wouldn't need different enzymes ...etc... because the bacteria would do it for us. What big question? I can't see it. --Celestianpower ^talk 17:44, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I was referring to the previous section on my edit problems. StuRat 18:00, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes - I now realise as such and have answered to the best of my ability. --Celestianpower ^talk 18:16, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Gym Leader stubs

I'm not seeing what the problem with merging them is. They aren't heavily linked, they aren't fleshed out, right now they don't establish notability at all, and PAC has about 150 or so Pokémon to plow through before getting to them. I'm not convinced that some of them can be brought up to full article status, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. Until then, merging them into lists make reference easier, make it easy to link them, make it easier to find the info with search, and makes it easier to see what still needs to be done.

Ideally, I'd like to see List of Johto Gym Leaders and List of Hoenn Gym Leaders as a list of one- or two-paragraph summaries of the characters, with See Also links for the characters who have enough personality and backstory to justify an article.

Until then, unlinked two-sentence stubs are exceedingly unlikely to be of use to anyone. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 12:59, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Rather than discussing this across a half dozen talk pages, maybe we could continue this conversation at Talk:List of Johto Gym Leaders? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 15:10, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Pokémon names in other languages

Hey there Celestianpower! Just a pointer for your PAC expanded articles; when presenting a Pokémon's name in different languages, please make the links point towards the language itself, like this: [[German language|German]], not like this: [[German]] or [[Germany]]. Links of the latter style point towards disambiguation pages, and it would help readers more to be directed immediately to the language in question rather than to its native speakers or their country. Keep up the good work! Sinistro 15:31, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Point taken. I will endevour to do as such in the future. --Celestianpower ^talk 16:39, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

WP: PAC

I've been mainly putting my efforts into other articles recently, (many of them still Pokémon related.) I've run low on things to do though, so I may go and help out. Sonic Mew | talk to me 22:27, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

US English vs. British English ?

I was wondering if there is any convention on which to use here. England, Ireland, Wales, etc. have one version on English and the US has another. Australia, New Zealand, and most other former British colonies speak a language closer to British English while Canada is midway between US and British English. In former US colonies, like Cuba and the Philippines, and countries that do business with the US, those who speak English tend to speak the US version. So, I don't really know which is more widespread. Then again, this site is of UK origin, right ? So, should I write:

"I collected me mate's mum after driving me lorry along the dual carriage-way to her flat, taking the lift, and knocking her up."

Or:

"I picked up my friend's mother after driving my truck along the divided highway to her apartment, taking the elevator, and knocking on the door."

Note that "knocking her up" would mean "impregnating her" in US English !

<Unsigned comment made at 18:15 on August 9 2005 by StuRat>

Please remeber to always sign and date entries.

I'm English and would never say either. I would say, "I picked up my friend's Mum after driving my truck along the dual carriage-way to her flat, taking the lift and knocking on the door."

As to your question, it is a long and arduous one.

• If you're talking about a person prodominantly English (in a biographical article) then use British English. Eg, Charlie Chaplin.
• If you're talking about a person prodominantly American however (in a biographical article) then use American English. Eg, Martin Luther King Jr.
• If you're talking about an item or brand name prodominantly English or English in Origin, then use British English. Eg, Harry Potter.
• If you're talking about an item or brand name prodominantly American or American in Origin however, then use American English. Eg, McDonalds.
• If you are talking about a place or locale that is in the UK, use British English. Eg, Stroud, Gloucestershire.
• If you are talking about a place or locale that is in the USA, use American English. Eg, Ohio.
• If the subject matter cannot be connected to either the UK or the USA then use the language that you would use normally and as long as you're consistant then it's OK.n I would prefer you to use British English (because I hate Americanisms) but I am not in control of Wikipedia (no-one is) so do whatever comes naturally in this last case.

By the way, in the UK "knocking her up" means impregnating her also.

Hope that helps! --Celestianpower ^talk 17:47, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Oops, forgot to sign. Some of what I said might be Aussie or Kiwi English, I have a hard time distinguishing them from British English as they each seem quite similar, relative to US English. All those rules appear to come down to "use whichever would be used by those in the article". I suppose I'd better not contribute to any articles on, say, Shakespeare, since my British English needs work (although British English and US English probably have more in common with each other than Middle English has with either). I can easily see how an edit war could erupt over this issue, so will use a more tolerant policy of "don't correct anyone's English, as long as it's valid in some country on Earth". Of course, since I don't know what's valid everywhere, this could be tricky. I certainly would correct slang, however, like the infamous US "ebonics", as in "theys be wack". StuRat 18:19, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Question on Massive Redirects

I edited an article, Euclidean distance, to which I can come up with thousands of possible redirects, including:

1. point distance formula
2. pt/dist equation
3. pt-to-pt formulas
4. 2D pt/pt distance equations
5. 2 pt distance formulae

Do I need to define them all independently, or is there some way to compose them like this:

"2D |3D |" &

"2|two|" &

" |-|/|" &

"point|pt|pt.|" &

" |-|/|" &

"to|" &

" |-|/|" &

"point|pt|pt." &

" |-|/" &

"distance|dist|dist.|" &

" |-|/|" &

"formula|formulae|formulas|equation|equations"

--StuRat 20:28, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

No - sorry but each redirect must be made separately. If you don't already know, this is the wikiSyntax:

#REDIRECT A Series of Unfortunate Events

Where "A Series of Unfortunate Events is the page it redirects to. Hope that helps! --Celestianpower ^talk 20:34, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Morty.jpg

Hey, thanks for posting this image, and it'd be great to have images like this for all of the Gym Leaders, but I spotted a possible problem. Where did this image come from, and where's the copyright status info? I didn't want to stick a possiblyunfreeimage tag on it so IFD didn't get their hands on it, but it needs to be sourced. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 13:33, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I got it from [1]. Isn't there a rule saying that screenshots are allowed? Because that's just a screenshot of the anime. If not - I apologize and just delete it. --Celestianpower ^talk 13:38, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

No rule against it, but you have to cite it. Put a link to where you got it on the image's page, and add the {{fairuse}} tag to it.

Actually, if you could get images like that for all the Gym Leaders, it'd be great. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 13:42, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

List of Johto Gym Leaders TOC

Personally, I think both designs are a bit ugly, Johto__gym because it's awkward and requires nested infoboxes, the one you added because the two columns don't line up. Would it be possible to redesign yours so the two colums line, at least at the center? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 14:18, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

How's that? --Celestianpower ^talk 14:29, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Fantastic. I'm going to update the Johto_gym infobox with that design, if you don't mind. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 14:34, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Fine. --Celestianpower ^talk 14:36, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Admin nomination

I think I'm ready to become an Admin. I've been here since April 17 (3.5 months in total) and made (at time of posting) 1188 edits (250+ on talks), half major, half minor I'd say. I think I've been nearly everywhere. I'm an active member of the PAC (10 stubs expanded) and made quite a few A Series of Unfortunate Events articles. I've welcomed about 45 new users, been on VfD quite a lot and generally shown cool throughout. Please could you nominate me? (Ps, I came here because I was looking and saw you said this, "However, if you are not an admin, and you meet my criteria, let me know and I would happily nominate you."). Thank you. --Celestianpower ^talk 15:01, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Remind me in about a week, I'm too busy to look you over carefully. What is your pet project on wikipedia? What would you do with your mighty admin power? Pedant 22:44, 2005 August 10 (UTC)

Celestianpower has been quite helpful to me, a new user, so I support the nomination. StuRat 23:07, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

File:IT room.jpg

untagged image

OK, I've looked over some of your edits, and I have just a touch of advice for you:

• If you add a splendid and useful image such as Image:IT room.jpg, it would be great if you A)tagged it with an appropriate copyright tag, and B)uploaded it to the wikimedia commons if it's public domain or GFDL etc. and C)add it to an article before it becomes an orphan image. (I took the liberty of adding it to Computer lab )
• You've done som great copyedits to other people's articles, cheers for that, but you could do with going back to some of your own material and re-reading it with an eye to copyediting it.
• Find something missing from wikipedia, or poorly covered, an area of study that you genuinely enjoy, and put some substantial effort into adding to it, getting others involved in it, and create some gem of 'wikpediation' that wasn't here before, or was sorely lacking until you tended to it a bit.
• Really remind me in say two weeks, that you think you are going to be a good admin, and I'll likely nominate you if you improve just that slightest bit. Cheers for helping newcomers too, by the way. Pedant 02:14, 2005 August 12 (UTC)

User:Celestianpower/pokeinfobox

Awesome. I fixed a single typo in your original (missing a space between the name and the National Pokédex number). That fixed, it looks absolutely great. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 15:41, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh! One thought...you're not going to be able to just use the article name; you'll need to pass the Pokemon's name as another parameter. There are lots of articles with names like [[Pokemonname (Pokémon)]]. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 15:46, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

I just noticed that problem myself, when I went back to Kyogre. I see you solved it; how did you fix it in Pikachu? It seems to still be broken in Kyogre. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 22:14, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Nevermind. Looks like all it needed was a quick trivial edit. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 22:16, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I turned it into a &nbsp; to make it totally invisible now. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 22:20, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Good. Thank you. --Celestianpower ^hab 16:04, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Re: Wikiportal Pokémon launched!

Why thank you, although I resent the implication that I'm not a silly deletionist. ;) - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 20:08, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

IDRIVE

Thank you for your support of This week's Improvement Drive. This week Spice trade was selected to be improved to featured article status. Hope you can help…

Jynx (Pokémon)

Could you watch Jynx (Pokémon) a bit? I'm kind of sick of revert warring on and off with User:Jynx, plus I want a reality check to make sure I'm not off in left field with my edits. Can you do that for me? - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 15:55, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Section Level Watch?

Is there a way to just watch a specific section ? I have made some minor changes to some huge pages, like Terrorism:Talk and Tea, and now my watchlist is inundated with changes to these articles completely unrelated to my change. If this isn't currently possible, where can I make the suggestion that this ability be added ? StuRat 17:49, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

No - currently you can't watch sections. Sorry. Try requestion it at The village pump proposals section. Happy watching! --Celestianpower ^hab 17:58, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

I tried requesting it, but that link didn't work. StuRat 19:51, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

The link now works. --Celestianpower ^hab 20:22, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

A few questions about wiki

thanx for saying me hello...u said that wiki is a little bit complicated? It's very hard to understand how to respect all the rights of the authors...And I want to ask u if i can take a picture from wiki in english and just link that to wiki in french? Coz it's a little bit long to copy all the images on my computer and etc. And a last question: do u like manga? I mean, others than just pokemon... (post by Bobby Disgracious at 22:58 on the 14th August 2005)

First of all, please type ~~~~ at the end of your comments so that we can contact you back and see who made a particular comment. Right, I'll split your questions up a bit (they are all valid):

1. If you want the short answer then don't respect the rights of other authors. It says at the bottom of every edit page, and I quote, "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, do not submit it.". Wikipedia ia built on ruthless editting.
2. I doubt it. They are separate entities. Sorry.
3. Do I like manga? No is the answer. I dislike comics and yes - that includes Pokémanga.

I hope you're enjoying editting and I hope that helps! :) --Celestianpower ^hab 22:10, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi from Saudade7

Hi Celestianpower, thanks for the nice welcome. I am okay I think with wiki in general, but I am pretty sure this is not how I was supposed to say "hi" on your talk page. But since the average amount of time a piece of stupidity survives on wiki is 2 minutes, I'm sure my note here will disappear soon. Love, Saudade7.

Don't worry - I've moved it. It isn't stupidity however it does say to click that link at the top when leaving a comment. Never mind though! :) --Celestianpower ^hab 22:10, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Hello from Jasonp

Thanks for the nice welcome; I appreciate your welcome very much and look forward to cooperating w/ everyone in Wikipedia :) I don't know if this is the best way to leave you a message, but this is the only thing I could find!

Thanks again! Take care

Jasonp 22:16, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

There is a large link at the top of the page in the purple section for you to click but don't take it too seriousl. Here at wikipedia it's best to be bold (we actually have a policy that says so) and others'll correct you if you make a small mistake! Have fun and good luck! PS, I'm glad you've learnt about ~~~~!!!! :) --Celestianpower ^hab 22:22, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Hello...

Always nice to have greeters! Glad to be here. --Bill Janssen 22:52, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

I know - Isn't it just? --Celestianpower ^hab 22:54, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Native language

For your edification, I added a mocked-up native language template. Almafeta 23:06, 14 August 2005 (UTC)