Template talk:Sprotected/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

First vandal

JosephBostwick (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is the first vandal of George W. Bush under semi-protection, and he did so 2 minutes after registering the username. Clearly, the time-delay aspect of semi-protection hasn't been implemented yet.

Probably we should introduce some artificial delays for registering an account... make them do captchas and answer skill-testing questions for about 30 to 60 seconds. Something that can't be automated: random skill-testing questions like "how many legs does a dog have?" that any human can answer but would stump a registration bot. This wouldn't be much of an annoyance to actual users, but would raise the hassle factor for throwaway accounts. It's like spam... if you could charge 1 cent per e-mail message, spam becomes uneconomical. Same concept. -- Curps 11:11, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Captchas can be defeated, although I doubt the average kiddie vandal is sophisticated enough to get around one. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 14:53, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

However, can you make a computer solve questions like "how many legs does a dog have?" Just have enough questions, maybe on a MediaWiki namespace page, and a computer can't possibly get through it. Bart133 21:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Wording of the template

Didn't we all agree that semi-protection also protected against editing by newly-registered accounts? Why does the template read "This page is temporarily protected from being edited by unregistered users" rather than what was discussed on the Wikipedia:Semi-protection policy page? Can't sleep, clown will eat me 14:51, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Because of an unintentional bug in the implementation that is being worked on. -Splash^talk 15:28, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Changes to the template

Dan100, I think we need to discuss it if you want to make changes. What is here is what was agreed for the 103 to 4 vote on this. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 15:48, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I reverted the changes you made, because what we had there was what was agreed to by a 103-4 vote. If you want changes made, let's discuss it at Template:Sprotected, ok? "This is going to be on alot of pages". Maybe, maybe not. I don't think we know yet. I just don't like making changes before it's fully bugfree and implemented. Anyway, let's discuss it. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 15:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

a) That vote was on the policy, not the template (of course)

b) I did not change the wording, only the design

I therefore don't see your edit as valid. But see below now... Dan100 (Talk) 16:11, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Too big

In my opinion, this banner is too large, if it is to be used for extended periods of time. One good reason to semi-protect a page is to prevent vandalism after specific media attention draws a lot of readers, and vandalism, but the current banner feels hostile and defeatist. Also, the text feels restrictive, when it should be inclusive.

My proposal:

Editing this page is temporarily restricted to registered users in order to deal with vandalism. Please discuss changes on the talk page or request unprotection.

-- Ec5618 15:58, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, that is quite nice. Can I also suggest shrinking the lock to 25px, or getting rid of it altogether? -Splash^talk 15:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

We should come up with a logo that we can use for S-P only. Any ideas? I like using an icon. But yeah, that wording is better, I admit. :) --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 16:03, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Editing this page is temporarily restricted to registered users in order to deal with vandalism. Please discuss changes on the talk page or request unprotection.

How about that? --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 16:04, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I prefer this:

This page is temporarily protected from being edited by unregistered users in order to deal with vandalism. Please discuss changes on the talk page or request unprotection.

It's simply less cluttered, less ugly. (The wording is, of course, identical). Dan100 (Talk) 16:12, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I really do actually quite like the wording suggested above. It's less of a kludge from {vprotect} and the grammar is smoother, not to mention the use of the word "restricted" being better. -Splash^talk 17:12, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Also, gotta remember Dan100 that we need it to be at least a little eye catching, even if it's a long term template. I've learned that on RfP. If the banners aren't big enough, people don't notice them and the purpose is defeated. We have huge warnings on the RfP page for people not to use the page for edit disputes but guess what people use it for? Fine line. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 23:49, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I've reduced the size of my version to 35px (25px seems a bit cramped, to me). I'll agree with finding/creating a more fitting icon (though the template deserves an icon if it is to be used for extended periods of time), but would like to see the current template changed as soon as possible. -- Ec5618 00:39, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

It's not clear how to introduce the fact that it is restricted to editors who are not unregistered or very new without kludging the grammar. -Splash^talk 12:20, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Duh, obviously it's Editing this page is temporarily restricted to registered users with accounts older than 4 days..... since that is how it wound up getting implemented. -Splash^talk 12:34, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Woohoo, c'mon, the fact that there's a gurt big rectangle above the article is eye-catching! But really it doesn't need to be - IPs will find out they can't edit as soon as they try, even if they have managed to miss the box :-). Comparing this to RfP is comparing apples to oranges, as that's an instruction and this is information. BTW Why does it need an icon? Dan100 (Talk) 14:13, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Um. Not sure that the protected template is an instruction. It's also informational. As for the icon, we need something eye catching, especially since this covers new accounts as well as IPs. We want to make sure that people with new accounts know that eventually, they will be able to edit the page. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 00:26, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Bug is fixed!

I am going to change the template to add "newer accounts". We can change it again later. But SP is working now. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 01:42, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Why not change the wording as well? -- Ec5618 09:39, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Template suggestions

I suggest:

Editing this page is temporarily restricted to registered users with accounts older than 4 days in order to deal with vandalism. Please discuss changes on the talk page or request unprotection.

Note the smaller (35px) lock. -- Ec5618 12:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Let's try it! Dan100 (Talk) 14:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. the current template as of my comment looks as though it's saying that only really new members are allowed to edit it, when it means to say that only "well-known" members or accounts older than 4 days can edit it. --ymmotrojam 23:58, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Lock image is ugly

The "lock" image extends outside the box, and it distracts from the actual article. I like the proposal above that gets rid of it. Ashibaka tock 05:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Why is this page protected?

Shouldn't this page be only semi-protected? Matt Yeager 09:32, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, everything that is (currently) permanently protected should be semi-protected instead. —Locke Cole 09:36, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Lock icon

As a side note, I've uploaded an 8-bit transparent version of the lock icon used (maybe it's just me, but the white background on the JPEG makes a barely noticeable box around it when used on the template).. I'd like to propose using this PNG as a replacement for the JPEG. Here's two samples–

—Locke Cole 10:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I agree, I don't like the white box around the icon. - Brian Kendig 14:48, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Why not just upload it as a .png? That way, you can have a transparent background... (see the WP logo). -Mysekurity^{(have you seen this?)} 03:13, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Er.. that's what I did. Or am I misunderstanding? —Locke Cole 14:16, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Confusing wording?

Right now the template reads: Editing of this page is temporarily restricted to registered users (other than new accounts) in order to deal with vandalism. To me, the parenthetical comment appears to be saying: "Editing is restricted to registered users, unless you're a new account," which is the opposite of what it means. I'm going to edit it in an attempt to simplify and clarify, and also to fix a problem I'm seeing in Safari where the lock icon appears to be falling out of the box (the box is too short for it, and so the bottom of the icon is below the bottom of the box). - Brian Kendig 14:47, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree... the parenthesis have been removed, but I still find the wording a bit odd. The last sentence is awkward, but okay-enough, but I think we should emphasize the positive more on the part about new users (though I can't think of anything now, and as an admin, I can't really make changes while it's protected, unless it's for someone else). In any event, Happy Holidays to all, and to all a goodnight. -Mysekurity^{(have you seen this?)} 03:21, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Here are a few areas of the wording that I don't like:

• "In order to ...": What's in order about it? Why not just say "To..."?
• "... deal with vandalism...": How is this "dealing"? It's more like "avoiding" vandalism! I think saying "In response to vandalism" would be more accurate, and show that pages are not protected pre-emptively.
• "... editing is restricted to...": I can never remember - if something is restricted to X, does that mean X is prevented from doing it, or X is the only one who can do it?
• "... logged-in users, other than new users...": It's not about the users, it's about the accounts.

- Brian Kendig 04:54, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Centering

Should this template not be centered like every other one on Wikipedia? --Comics 21:41, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Template looks ugly

This template looks very ugly on 1024x768 resolution. There are three lines, and the only word on the second line is "new". I suggest something like this:

In order to deal with vandalism, editing of this page is temporarily restricted to users who are logged into an account that is not new. Please discuss changes or request unprotection.

Or, perhaps, make it fit on two lines. -- RattleMan 01:46, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Well said! It's ugly on my screen, too. Not only that, the wording is ugly, though there's no easy way around that. Matt Yeager 01:54, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

In order to deal with vandalism, editing of this page is temporarily restricted to users who are logged into an account that is not new. Please discuss changes or request unprotection.

Well if we remove the br you added to make it three lines... and change the aligment on the text to left align... it works at 1024x768.  ALKIVAR™ 01:54, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

No, that's three lines. The problem still remains. Matt Yeager 01:55, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Umm... really... why IS this page protected?

Seriously. The template's ugly; that's the general consensus. Why are we stopping people from improving it by putting in full protection? Matt Yeager 02:04, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Publicity ... templates are easy targets for vandals to stick a penis in and make it show up on multiple pages. As such most high visibility templates are full protected.  ALKIVAR™ 02:11, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

It's high visibility, but no more so than, say, George W. Bush--that's only semi-protected. Tons of templates aren't protected, by the way--why is this one so much more more special? (Especially when it's so in need of improvement?) Matt Yeager 02:16, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

It's semi protected, not full protected. If you want to improve it, go ahead. You can. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 03:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

The protection policy is clear that things should only be protected in response to vandalism, not as a preventative measure. Anyhows, I see that the protection is gone now. - Brian Kendig 13:52, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, it doesn't make sense to protect these templates "permanently" anymore than it makes sense to protect articles permanently (which it doesn't, so generally they're only protected temporarily). I think "permanently" semi-protecting problem templates would address 90% of the vandalism associated with templates. —Locke Cole 14:15, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

How's this?

The wording is too horrendous to look at, and I considered being bold (or assinine) and updating this template, but decided it would be better to get feedback first, so I'm submitting my changes:

New and anonymous users are temporarily restricted from editing this article to deal with vandalism.

It's still a bit awkward, and doesn't get it across completely, but it isn't as wtf-inducing as the current version. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mysekurity (talk • contribs) 05:00, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmm... I was bold and changed the template, at least a bit based on your idea. Titoxd^{(?!? - help us)} 05:00, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Oops! I hate when I forget to sign! (Stupid MediaWiki...), but thanks for the change, and thanks for signing. I'm going to check it out now (nice tool, by the way!) -Mysekurity^{(have you seen this?)} 05:24, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

"New and anonymous users" isn't quite accurate. It's anonymous users and new accounts. If a longtime (not new) anon makes a registered account, he might be confused as to why he can't edit an sprotected page. - Brian Kendig 05:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Like this? -Mysekurity^{(have you seen this?)} 05:31, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Re: [1]. I was thinking that as I clicked save. Thanks, and I'm off to bed. Good night, all! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mysekurity (talk • contribs) 05:45, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Please try and keep it down to two lines though - three lines (often with just an orphan on the second) looks particulary ugly. Dan100 (Talk) 09:01, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

There's really no way to control that. Some people may be viewing Wikipedia on an 800x600 laptop display (as I am right now); others may be viewing it on a display that's 1600 pixels wide, or more. Trying to wordsmith the template so that it doesn't flow a single word onto the next line, that'll never work unless everyone looks at it with the same-width window in the same browser using the same font. - Brian Kendig 13:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I wish

We'd come to an agreement on the talk page as to how the template should look. As it is, it is changing several times a day. That's unacceptable to me. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 09:07, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay. I think that this is how it should look--what do you all think?

In response to vandalism, editing of this page by new or anonymous users is temporarily disallowed. Please discuss changes on this article's talk page or request unprotection.

As opposed to its current state:

In response to vandalism, editing of this page by new or anonymous users is temporarily disallowed. Please discuss changes or request unprotection.

Still not very wordy, still just two lines... (and "talk page" is a redlink because, well, talk pages don't have talk pages =/) Matt Yeager 19:47, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I can accept that. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 20:59, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Acceptable to me as well. —Locke Cole 02:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

The font appears so small on some browsers that it is all but unreadable. This is happening all over as a handful of people shrink templates. If many users can't read the damn thing the template becomes worthless. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 01:18, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

If you are having problems, perhaps you could instruct your browser to enlarge the text for you. Many browsers include a sort of zoom function which allows you to blow up text.

As for the template, while it may be true that it is hard to read for some people, since the template is relatively static it isn't hard to grow accustomed to specific templates. Most experienced editors/reader don't actually read the NPOV banner any more, for example, but simply recognise it. -- Ec5618 01:38, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I know what it means. The problem is that other users may not be able to read it. (It is showing as size 6 font, for Chrissakes!!!) New users shouldn't have to adjust their browsers when they come onto WP because some users on WP have developed a fad for making things as small as possible. Everything on WP should be compatible with all standard browsers without need for special adjustment. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 01:42, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll agree with you that the text may be difficult to read for some readers. (6 points? I thought it was defined in percentages. Huh.) I do prefer smaller text though, because it gets the message across without being too noticable. A boiler with small text is easy for a reader to overlook, or to ignore, so an article featuring the boiler isn't immediately defaced. Larger text, even text the same size as the text in the article, appears important (Read this first), even though this template may just as well not exist, as far as most readers are concerned. I do in fact hope that most readers completely gloss over the boiler, or read it just once, on a single page. I also find the smaller text more aesthethically pleasing. -- Ec5618 02:02, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree that when too big notices can distract. But too small can be worse, because if it is big but readable people glance at it, think "I'm not reading that" and ignore it. But if it is too small, people glance at it, can't read it, wonder what it is, maybe try to adjust the screen to read it, and their curiosity at the unreadable message proves far more distracting than a larger message. The template is appearing at less than two-thirds the size of this text. That is quite frankly ludicrously small. If the notice is on the page it obviously is meant to be read. It isn't there for decoration. So by definition it has to be big enough. Showing something at size 6 font on the average browser screen is so bizarre as to beggar belief. (In many countries, it is actually illegal to post messages in size 6 fonts on work computers, because of fears that it would damage the reader's eyesight. If WP was an employer and its contributors were employees, in many states posting text that that size would break health and safety legislation and lead to a court case and a massive fine!!! FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 02:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, it appears, upon inspection of the code, that the font was set to 8 points. Still, how's this?

wider; 95% font:

In response to recent vandalism, editing of this page by new or anonymous users is temporarily disabled. Please discuss changes or request unprotection.

wider; 8pt font:

In response to recent vandalism, editing of this page by new or anonymous users is temporarily disabled. Please discuss changes or request unprotection.

standard width; 95% font:

In response to recent vandalism, editing of this page by new or anonymous users is temporarily disabled. Please discuss changes or request unprotection.

100% font doesn't seem to fit into the small box, without breaking the third line. -- Ec5618 02:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

The template is way too dominating

The template is ugly and dominating the articles they are on way too much with info about something that 99.9% of the readers don't care about. I'd like the template to either disappear and just have a note shown when people try to edit it, or have it reduced to a single small icon somewhere with a descriptive alt-text explaining it for those very, very few readers who care. Shanes 14:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

We can't make it "disappear". For one thing, it's a tool for admins so we can see easily what's protected and what isn't when we go to a page. Secondly, we need something there to explain to new users and anons why they cannot edit. "Very, very few readers care". Well. 800 admins. Plus countless IP editors and new users. And to me, just putting it up when they try to edit might not be feasible...and even if it is, it's not something we do for any other templates. Thirdly, except for GWB, this template isn't on articles any longer than vprotect or protected are. So are you suggesting that we make those disappear as well? They aren't any prettier. And actually, most our warning templates (attention, cleanup, et all) are ugly. Do we remove those as well? Here are the protected and sprotected tags.

Protected template:

This page is protected from editing until disputes have been resolved on the discussion page. Protection is not an endorsement of the current page version. Please discuss changes on the talk page or request unprotection.

Semi-protected template:

In response to recent vandalism, editing of this page by new or anonymous users is temporarily disabled. Please discuss changes on this article's talk page or request unprotection.

Not a whole lot of difference. Templates like this serve a purpose. Making that invisible or tiny defeats that purpose. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 14:56, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

We are writing an encyclopedia for people to read. The open editing and adminship and protecting and all that are just ways to the means. Spending much time editing and admining and all that can make one lose sight of what really matters, and that is to present articles where people in the world can find clearly structured information without ugly distractions irrelevant to the topic. And we definitely don't need to have a big ugly box to inform 800 administrators. I'm quite confident that both you, me and the other 798 (or whatever the number is nowa days) can learn that a small icon on the top means it's sprotected. And yes, I hate the vprotect template as well. But a poor guy full of hatered has to start somewhere, so I'm puking here first. Shanes 15:24, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

OK. So then what makes these different than our other templates? I mean, using your argument, wouldn't we be making all of the warning boxes smaller or put at the bottom of the screen? --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 15:35, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

This is of course just mine opinion, but templates that are importent for the reader include all the dispute templates, the afd template, and all the cleanup tags. I'm all fine with them being promenently displayed. They are either important for understanding bias or they are there to more loadly then else ask the reader to help in the editing since what's there is far from perfect (expand, verify facts, etc). But templates being there just to explain that editing is restricted at the moment for whatever reason (like the reader looking for info on something cares what that reason is) don't need to be so promenently displayed. The best IMO would be to have a mediawiki message, like the one we show blocked users when they try to edit, explaining the situation when they click edit. That will probably need some software change, so I should request that elsewhere, but as my second choice I want the protect templates we have now to be less dominating and distracting. I feel ashamed everytime I come across a protect-taged article and feel that it's ruining the layout and look of otherwise fine work. The only good thing with having big ugly protect templates is that it makes me (and hopefully others) more eager to get them unprotected sooner so we can ridd the article of that hiddeus box. Heck, we don't even label featured articles with anything, except on talk, since it's seen as distracting. And I'll say that informing readers on that this article has passed peer review etc and is considered good is much more worth some reader-distraction than screaming to them that what they are reading now is un-editable for the moment for some reason. Most readers really don't care. Shanes 16:12, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I think you're asking for a wholesale change in practise, which is probably best discussion somewhere like the Pump rather than in this comparative backwater. I would observe, however, that I think people do read the template on the basis of one particular piece of evidence: There have been pages with {{sprotected}} added to them, but not actually protected and they have still seen their edit rate fall sharply (in one case to zero). So the tags do get noticed, at least by those they affect. I think perhaps most of the trouble is the image, and i agree that it is distracting. I was fine with the image-free version, but there seems support for it. We should make a new semi-lock logo, perhaps. -Splash^talk 16:17, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Self reference?

Isn't this template a self-reference? It only relates to the functionality of Wikipedia. If it is, I'm not familiar with the procedures that well but shouldn't the whole thing be put in a {{selfref}} tag or something? BigBlueFish 17:18, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Explanation of changes by Tony Sidaway

This template looked so much like the protected page template that I think it made some editors think that they could not edit the page.

I've changed the background color, reduced the size of the padlock icon and moved the icon to the right hand side of the text, all of which should provide enough of a visual cue to give the template a separate identity.

The wording was also wrong, being substantially a copy of the wording from the other template. If an article is semi-protected, it's inappropriate to ask people to discuss changes on the talk page, they should just go ahead and edit the page as they normally would, so I've changed the wording to match the circumstances. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 02:32, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't notice this message. That background makes it look a lot like a cleanup tag and (entirely personally) I don't like coloured boxes at the top of articles, so I took away the bg colour. I moved the tag to the left thinking it was a mistake, I don't mind where it goes. The grammar didn't seem to flow quite right, so I reordered things slightly, keeping the bolded text about "everyone else is ok". -Splash^talk 02:45, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

One other thing: it's true about others not needing to discuss changes. I think it was intended to tell anons+newbies that they could go discuss on talk, rather than to tell everyone that. But I can see how confusion might arise. Maybe your new sentence will fix that. -Splash^talk 02:49, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I kind of wish we'd stop changing it every damn day. Let's discuss a "permanent" version here and then upload it. Template has been changed multiple times just since 1/1. Not acceptable. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 02:31, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

It's been restored to a version that looks too much like the protected page template. I've moved the emphasis back to make sure that normal logged-in users don't think they cannot edit that page, and clarified the wording somewhat in the following ways: the word semiprotection now appears in the text, and the proposals that need to be discussed on the talk page are named explicitly: not just "changes", but changes to the state of semiprotection. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 14:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Here's my problem (and it's not with you Tony, it's with the process). The template is being changed everyday. The policy has been in use for 22 days and we've had 100 edits to the template. 100. I know what's happening. We're trying to come up with a definitive version. So. What we need to do is to propose 2 or 3 versions and then vote or have some sort of discussion on them. Otherwise, what's happening is that the semi-chaos of the template is almost as bad as the chaos that is happening on the pages that we are semi protecting.

It just looks bad. I don't even follow all of the changes we've had, but just from doing PP patrol, I've seen 4 lines or 3 lines or 2 lines...large font or small font...one word linked or 5 words linked or no words linked...a bolded section or a section in italics..."restricted" or "disallowed"..."accounts" or "users"..."in response" or "because" or "As a result". What irks me is that there isn't alot of discussion on here. We had some for a bit but now we're back to a semi edit war. Done with lecture. I don't care *which* version we go for. Let's just get some consensus on one and go with it. Tired of seeing a different template every time I see a SP page. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 15:39, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

No, if there's substantial agreement on the template, the last thing we need is a vote which will only exacerbate existing disagreements. I've given my reasons for use of emphasis and wording to make it easy to distinguish one template from the protected page template. Perhaps we could have a discussion on this. It seems likely that we can get substantial agreement that such use of visual cues is desirable. On the frequent editing of the template, I don't see why this is regarded as a problem on a wiki. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 18:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll let you guys have it and keep quiet. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 01:14, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank goodness....

...after a month of little activity I come back to see semi-protection finally created. Good stuff. Marskell 17:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

One problem we seem to have is that we now have three sprotected templates, two of them hideous substandard and unreadable but being pushed for inclusion in just one page in preference to this one. The two substandard versions are now on the WP:TFD for deletion. Please cast your votes. This duplication is pointless. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 18:51, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Duly noted. At the risk of offering another unneeded change, could the lock on this be changed (popped into my head example) to a yield sign or something that indicates caution rather than go away? And could it be reduced, say, to 75% of current (I think it's already been shrunk)? Finally, could we drop "as a result of vandalism"? Make the statement: "this page is prohibited to X and Y" and leave it there. If we have the policy (and damn we needed it) we should go ahead and say so. There is something to be said for being unintrusive and also for being decisive. Marskell 22:57, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The mention of vandalism should remain as a reminder to people that the tag should not be used for anything else. What's a yield sign? The hand in an octagon? That's probably much scarier than an impersonal lock. We need a half-open lock or something. -Splash^talk 23:16, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

How about an UNLOADED gun ;)? Marskell 06:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Temporarily

I'd like to suggest that 'temporarily' be replaced with 'currently'. There are plenty of sprotected articles that will likely stay that way until someone unplugs the last server, and saying 'temporarily' is disingenuous at best. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 20:53, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

No, the only article likely to stay semi'd long term is George W. Bush. There is no basis in policy for keeping anything permanently protected, although some pages spend longer protected than others. WP:SEMI is for dealing with vandalism and the vast majority of vandals get bored pretty quickly when their playground is taken away and so the page can be unprotected quickly. It's a pity that many admins just "protect and forget", but that is their own fault (for which they need a slap), rather than any disingenuity on the part of the tag. -Splash^talk 01:28, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I patrol the protected pages list every day. Only articles that have been SP more than a week are Bush, disputed status of Gibraltar, history of Gibraltar and Bogdanov affair and those last 3 are special cases. Otherwise, the average time for semi protection is 3-4 days at most. It is temporary. And the 4 where it isn't are well known cases on Wikipedia. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 13:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

And these four cases (the latter three in any case) are still temporarily protected, I'm sure. -- Ec5618 13:12, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually they are mostly permanent. I mean the Bush article has gone through periods of SP but they have been brief. The 2 Gibraltar articles are SP due to blocked user Gibraltarian, who is now up to 40 dynamic IPs that he has used as sockpuppets. He's said he'll never give up. And then Bogdanov Affair is basically an arbcom ruling. I don't see that unprotected in the neat future unless the controversy around the Bogdanovs ends and I doubt that. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 13:30, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

The boiler currently reads that semiprotection is temporary. If these articles are to be permanently protected, the boiler should be modifier to reflect that. Perhaps an optional modifier could change the text on specific articles ({{sprotect|permanent}}}}). Alternatively another template could be created, for specific use in these articles, but the tempatation to create wholly dissimilar templates would exist. In any case, adding this current boiler to the Bush article may not be entirely honest. -- Ec5618 13:55, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Still ugly

The template is still imposing and very ugly - which needlessly punishes articles that are unfortunate enough to suffer fate of being semi-protected. Can someone with adminstrator access please adjust the template at least so it uses smaller text? I feel Ec5618's were a step in the right direction. Cedars 00:38, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Editing this page is temporarily restricted to registered users in order to deal with vandalism. Please discuss changes on the talk page or request unprotection.

Removal of box

Philwelch just edited the template to remove the box, without discussion such a change. The template is currently protected, so I am unable to revert this change. More to the point, the template is protected to prevent vandalism and edit warring, not to limit access to administrators.

Please, someone, revert the template to the boxed version, as per current consensus. I'll agree the template is noticable, but that is no reason to remove the box that sets it apart from actual content. -- Ec5618 01:40, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Why don't we wait until someone actually disagrees with the change? Or have we repealed WP:BOLD? — Phil Welch Are you a fan of the band Rush? 01:43, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I also dislike the removal of the box. The formatting of this template (as well as the other protected templates, such as Template:Protected and Template:Vprotected) should be uniform. —Locke Cole • t • c 01:44, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The box was there to reflect the appearance of {{protected}} and {{vprotected}}, so I do disagree with the change. Titoxd^{(?!? - help us)} 01:46, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Not to pile on, but my initial comment showed that I disagreed. Wait until someone disagrees, indeed. Had I been able, I would have reverted in seconds. -- Ec5618 01:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Glad to know your sensibilities. I don't negotiate with edit warriors. — Phil Welch Are you a fan of the band Rush? 01:51, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Being bold does not give you licence to kill, and being an Admin does not give you the right to make unilateral changes. Also, please observe civility. There is no need for namecalling .ere. Now, are you going to revert your changes? I don't respond well to stonewalling. -- Ec5618 01:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

ps. What on Earth are you doing calling me an obstructionist on your Talk page. I simply asked you to revert your changes. Again, civility. I shouldn't have to call for help. -- Ec5618 01:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Given the amount of opposition to the change, I've reverted for now while we discuss the changes and come to a consensus. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 02:10, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you kindly.

As the template is still protected, I shouldn't hurt to start a discussion of sorts, for proposed edits. For discussion purposes, I find it helps to have a copy of the template to look at. It also gives one a feeling for the different ideas that have been suggested. This is what the template currently looks like. Anyone who would like to discuss changes, feel free to do so -- Ec5618 02:44, 28 January 2006 (UTC):

As a result of recent vandalism, editing of this page by new or anonymous users is temporarily disabled. Changes can be discussed on the talk page, or you can request unprotection.

Okay, my stab at it

Due to recent vandalism, an established account is required to edit this article. See our semi-protection policy for more information.

Succinct and one line - if one follows the semi-protection link one will learn that you can still use he talk page and request unprotection. I also think the focus should be on what is allowed and what is disallowed hence "an established account is required to edit" as opposed to "anonymous and relatively new user acounnts are not allowed". Also a lot less cumbersome. Just my $0.02. --Wgfinley 04:06, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that still shows as two lines at my resolution (1024px wide). In fact, the whole thing seems less balanced, as the second line is now rather short (.. policy for more information.). I've modified your proposal, and used <span style="white-space:nowrap;"> to force the template to wrap the text into two clean lines when there isn't enough space. It should have no effect on your screen, but does on mine. the only drawback is that it won't wrap onto three lines now, for people with even smaller font.

I do like your wording. An 'established account', that's just right. -- Ec5618 04:39, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't like this one especially. It's quite useful (even important) to have an indication on the tag, i.e. in the article itself that people can go to the talk page and discuss whatever, rather than referring them to some other policy page (which doesn't deal with talk page discussions, particularly). The template needs to include the word "temporary" to remind editors and admins alike that sprotection is only temporary. Brevity should not sacrifice clarity. I don't see what's wrong with the template as it stands; there are an infinite number of possible revisions that would fix something that ain't broke. -Splash^talk 12:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't like the term "established account". It could be construed to mean any registered account. Needs to be clearer. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 12:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid I focussed on the technical aspects, without even noticing that the link to the talk page had been removed, as has the link to 'protection requests'. I see no reason to change the template. -- Ec5618 13:08, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I support changes to make the note less intrusive, and in particular I like Philwelch change that removed the distracting box. A small discreet note is enough. Shanes 13:28, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

You do realise that that would make this template unique among the protection templates, don't you? Template:protected, Template:vprotected, even Template:Suggestprotect all look alike, right now. Also, in my opinion, the box sets the message appart from the article; in the same way that banner ads are easy to ignore, a boxed template may be more discrete.

Finally, semi-protection is supposed to be a temporary measure. If this template is to be used on a number of articles under long term semi-protection, perhaps the template should include a parameter to make it appear slightly different on those pages. A lighter box, perhaps, or less text. -- Ec5618 13:47, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the existence of uglyness is a very good argument for spreading it. If a template is too distracting and intrusive, we should make it less so. We are writing an encyclopedia for people in the world to read. And when people come to an article we shouldn't distract them from what they want to learn about by forcing them to read a completely irrelevant note about vandalism on wikipedia or whatever. Regarding Template:Suggestprotect, I didn't know that silly template existed and have tfd'ed it now. Shanes 14:43, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

It isn't 'distracting' since it appears for only a few hours or days at a time. If it is appearing for longer, then please ask the protecting admin (or WP:RFP) to lift the protection. -Splash^talk 14:47, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

It's distracting when it's there. A reader isn't being less distracted by the template not being there tomorrow. He is reading the article now. Shanes 15:04, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

The whole semi-protection policy doesn't need to go into the template, that's why it's so dang long now. Yes, "established account" is a bit vague but it is explained in the policy. Yes, anons and new accounts can still post on the talk page, the template makes no reference to not being able to edit the talk page. Finally, yes, they can request unprotection, but, again, that is in the semi-protection policy as in everything else and there is a clear link that says to check it for more information. Our insistence on putting a lot of stuff into the box is what is making it too long, ponderous and ugly. --Wgfinley 18:37, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Request to have sort keys added

Please add sort keys to the categories. The following

[[Category:Article header templates]]

[[Category:Semi-protected]]

should change to

[[Category:Article header templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

[[Category:Semi-protected|{{PAGENAME}}]]

– Doug Bell ^{talk•contrib} 08:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Edit made by Alkivar. howcheng {chat} 17:18, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Replace image

Replace current copyvio image with Image:Lock-icon.png. Thanks. —Cantus…☎ 05:22, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

done. -- Zondor 06:13, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

add see also

Please add the following to the page:

<noinclude>
----
==See also==
* [[Template:High-traffic]]
* [[Template:P-protected]]
</noinclude>

-- Zondor 06:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Done. Titoxd^{(?!? - help us)} 06:17, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Umm... really... I'm really serious... why IS this page protected?

I'd like to be able to make edits to this template (it's kind of in need), but it's full-protected. Why is this page full-protected? Could someone semi-protect it instead, please? Matt Yeager ♫ (Talk?) 23:25, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

From the log:

13:13, 18 January 2006 Voice of All protected Template:Sprotected (full, 700 editors can change this high-usage page that doesn't need much editing; fully protected like the other templates [edit=sysop:move=sysop])

This page is just too tempting for vandals, and I'm not sure I agree with VoA, but what would you like to see changed? -Mysekurity 04:22, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

There's an extra line break at the bottom. It makes pages look a bit ugly. Also, I'm not too fond of the aesthetics of the template in general. It's not particularily pretty, and there's no real need for full protection. Right? Matt Yeager ♫ (Talk?) 22:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I second the request to remove the extra line break at the bottom, (please remove "</noinclude>[line break]<noinclude>") but I don't think anything else needs to be changed. Matt: you can subst: this and change it to taste in individual articles. --James S. 05:04, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

How is this implemented?

There is some interest in using this feature on the English Wiktionary. How is semi-protection accomplished? Is it the simple addition of the category? --Connel MacKenzie 20:20, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

No. If you are familiar with full protection, it's similar. An admin has to change the status of the page so it goes from allowing all users to only allowing either accounts older than 4 days (semi protection) or just admins (full protection). Then we add the tag (usually). But the tag itself does nothing. WP:SEMI has more info. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 21:22, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. That's what I suspected at first, but I saw nothing even remotely like "Block new and unregistered users" on the protection page at the sister project Wiktionary. Any idea how that is added as a list item on the "Confirm protection" special page? --Connel MacKenzie 21:49, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

We had to go to User:Brion VIBBER for that. I would suggest that for you as well. Or you can post at the technical part of the Village Pump. That's what I would recommend. It's something they have to enable on the server side. They did it for at least one other Wikipedia (Spanish) recently, so I don't think it'd be a big deal. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 21:52, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll catch up with Brion on IRC. --Connel MacKenzie 01:00, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

For the record, it is implemented in the site preferences (but enabled on request), so you have to go with brion or another system administrator to turn it on. Titoxd^{(?!? - help us)} 01:20, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you all. I caught up with Brion on IRC, and the requisite magic has been performed. For future reference, this type of request is probably best handled by making a bugzilla request; enter a new bug of type "Wikimedia." --Connel MacKenzie 20:53, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Please remove extra line-break

There's an extra line break after the box, causing an extra gap to appear on articles. Please remove it. Thanks. Infinity0 ^talk 00:47, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

InterLink addition req

Could you please add it:Template:Avvisobloccoparziale to the Interlinks? TY --M7it 14:52, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Done. Does anyone else quite like the idea of using an amber traffic light for semiprotection? -Splash^talk 14:55, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Uh, you changed where you want the link to go to. But the new target does not exist. -Splash^talk 14:57, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Ok, now re-done. -Splash^talk 14:59, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, I got blamed about template name uniformity :) --M/

The text is in Wikispeak and is incorrect in real world English

Only regular Wikipedians know that in Wikispeak "Anonymous" means "unregistered". I have over 20,000 edits, but I am here anonymously in the real world meaning of the term. Cal isn't my real name, I have never told anyone on here what my real name is and they have no means of finding out other than asking me, which I would ignore. That is anonymity in my book. Please consider amending the text to read that editing by "Unregistered and recently registered users" is suspended, as that is what the template actually does. CalJW 05:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Good point. I've changed the template. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 05:33, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Your amendment is a big move in the right direction, but I don't think it's where it should be yet. I edited for a year before I had an account, so I was not "new" when I registered. I really think it should say "recently registered". Registration is the crux of this function so its role shouldn't be under represented in the public explanation of the template. CalJW 06:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)