Template:Did you know nominations/Stanisław Kot

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 17:46, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

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Stanisław Kot

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Stanisław Kot
Stanisław Kot

? Source: https://collections.ushmm.org/findingaids/RG-15.658_01_fnd_pl.pdf ; http://bazhum.muzhp.pl/media//files/Organon/Organon-r1980_1981-t16_17/Organon-r1980_1981-t16_17-s267-281/Organon-r1980_1981-t16_17-s267-281.pdf

Improved to Good Article status by Piotrus (talk). Self-nominated at 04:05, 30 July 2020 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: No - The Katyn massacre was disclosed by different people to different publics. So, I think this could be more specific.
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: (t · c) buidhe 09:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

    • @Buidhe: I am fine with the main hook, I see your point about the alt. Is the main hook ok? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:32, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
      • The main hook meets requirements although I think ALT1 could potentially be more interesting. Also (optional) the article would benefit from more detail/clarification on the disclosure; for example, where did Kot get the information from? (t · c) buidhe 17:57, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
        • @Piotrus: Do the sources support this wording:
    ALT2 ... that as a minister of the Polish government-in-exile during WWII, Stanisław Kot (pictured) was the first to publicly reveal the Katyn massacre?
    That merges the best of both hooks into one. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
    @The Squirrel Conspiracy: Sadly, no, I can't find any soure that clearly claims it was "the first" (per what Buidhe said). The Katyn communique (Polish: "komunikat katyński") may actually be a notable document. [1] says that this communique is "famous" ("to Kot zredagował słynny komunikat katyński gen. Kukiela z 17 kwietnia 1943 po komunikacie radia niemieckiego o odkryciu grobów katyńskich. "). I did a bit more search, and I may stub this article, and it was almost certainly the first Polish and therefore Allied public statement on this, following the German public statement (od 13 April see Katyn_massacre#Discovery) that they have found the graves (from [2]: "Sikorskiego nie było w Londynie, a on sam był chory w momencie, kiedy dowiedziano się o Katyniu. Bez czekania na powrót generała, bez porozumienia się Rettingerem, Kot, Kukiel i Raczyński zredagowali komunikat, który oddali do PAT i rozesłali Anglikom".) The comminique itself is often mentioned in the biographies of Kot, as it was important (it led to the breaking of diplomatic relations between Poland and USSR, see [3] pages 108-109). So based on the above I'd think the following ALT2b+ would be justified (I will add the ref to the article itself) - note that while the sources don't say it was "the first Allied", [4] does say that the Poles composed it after learning about Katyn and gave it to the British (so it strongly implies it was the first Polish communique on the subject), and given it was an issue that was primarily of interest to Poles, it is really logical to assume that Brits and Americans would wait and see what Poles would do here before issuing any statements of their own. If you think it is really OR to say that for the Allies, however, then consider ALT2c. (Also, technically, Kot composed this but according to the first source it was issued by Marian Kukiel; however as noted by numerous other sources cited before, including English-language ones like [5], in his biographies this document is attributed to him - but maybe the word composed would be better than issued?. Now, [6] notes that this communique (well, a communique of the Polish gov't of that day on this topic, it is unlikely there was another) "asked for a Red Cross investigation, which was rejected by Stalin, who used the fact that Germans also requested such an investigation as a "proof" of Polish-German conspiracy, and which led to a deterioration of Polish-Soviet relations" Anyway, consider the hooks, including ALT3 which uses another interesting fact about this document (instead of the claim of it being the first): --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:05, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
    ALT2b ... that as a minister of the Polish government-in-exile during WWII, Stanisław Kot (pictured) issued the first Allied public statement about the Katyn massacre?
    ALT2b2 ... that as a minister of the Polish government-in-exile during WWII, Stanisław Kot (pictured) composed the first Allied public statement about the Katyn massacre?
    ALT2c ... that as a minister of the Polish government-in-exile during WWII, Stanisław Kot (pictured) issued the first Polish public statement about the Katyn massacre?
    ALT2c2 ... that as a minister of the Polish government-in-exile during WWII, Stanisław Kot (pictured) composed the first Polish public statement about the Katyn massacre?
    ALT3 ... that as a minister of the Polish government-in-exile during WWII, Stanisław Kot (pictured) composed the communique about Katyn massacre which was used by the Soviets as a pretext for breaking off the Polish-Soviet diplomatic relations?
Of those, I think ALT2b reads the best. @Buidhe: Can you validate the new hook(s)? The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 06:28, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
ALT2b does read best but it is technically WP:OR, unless there is a source which expliticly supports it. On that basis, I think ALT2c2 would be best. (If the sources say composed but not issued, our hook shouldn't say issued.) (t · c) buidhe 07:16, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
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