Template:Did you know nominations/Hannah Amelia Wright

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by BlueMoonset (talk) 01:30, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
Withdrawn per request of nominator

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Hannah Amelia Wright[edit]

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  • ... that Hannah Amelia Wright, the first woman to be appointed doctor in a State asylum, was the daughter of Charles Cushing Wright, among the founders of the National Academy of Design? Source: A woman of the century; fourteen hundred-seventy biographical sketches accompanied by portraits of leading American women in all walks of life (1983) ([1]) and Charles Cushing Wright (1796-1854) ([2])
    • ALT1:... that Hannah Amelia Wright, the first woman to be appointed doctor in a State asylum, was one of the organizers of the Society for Promoting the Welfare of the Insane, chartered in 1882? Source: A woman of the century; fourteen hundred-seventy biographical sketches accompanied by portraits of leading American women in all walks of life (1983) ([3])

Created by Elisa.rolle (talk). Self-nominated at 09:27, 14 August 2017 (UTC).

Personal life is unsourced which is a requirement for every article to be nominated. I would also propose to the make the comment shorter to focus in one single point.Tintor2 (talk) 01:34, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
No copyvio detected. Article was created and nominated in the same day. Length seems fine for a start, but personal life requires sourcing. All paragraphs for a DYK require this.Tintor2 (talk) 02:04, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
  • I think both these hooks are just plain wrong. The source is an 1893 book of biographies which is copied verbatim into the article. That's OK because it is in the public domain and is properly attributed in the References section. However it also includes somewhat archaic language. Wright was refused a job as an assistant physician in an asylum and instead built up a private practice. She was made an "examiner in lunacy", the first woman to have this role apparently, but what that implies is unclear. However looking elsewhere online, it seems to mean that she could certify people insane. But quite apart from this, I don't think this article qualifies for DYK because there is insufficient original text. The whole of the career section comes verbatim from the 1893 source and the rest of the article is only about 1100 characters. If you were to completely rewrite the career section in your own words, it would qualify. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:06, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
  • @Elisa.rolle: On further thoughts, you would not need to completely rewrite the section, only a large enough part to add 400 characters of original prose. For example, the present final paragraph of the Career section is about 500 characters so it shouldn't be too much effort to add 400. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:44, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
Cwmhiraeth: I partially rephrased the Career section, not sure if that is what is expected. Elisa.rolle (talk) 18:26, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
From the point of view of original prose, that is probably sufficient, but I don't think I agree with your final sentence because I doubt that "examiner in lunacy" equates with the post of assistant physician. When researching it earlier, I came across a mention of a certificate for "examiner in lunacy" so it sounds like a qualification rather than a form of employment. It might be better to have a hook such as: Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:57, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Cwmhiraeth: changed the sentence in the article and OK ALT2 with the wikilink. Elisa.rolle (talk) 19:44, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Good. Someone else will need to finish the review. I have struck the other hooks. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:55, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Approving ALT2. Added an inline citation, which checks out. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:29, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Most of the article is copied from a public domain source. It doesn't look like there are 1500 characters of original text to satisfy WP:DYK#Eligibility criteria 2b. Yoninah (talk) 19:49, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
Alex Shih, withdrawing this DYK. Just for your info, reporting sentence from Cwmhiraeth: "From the point of view of original prose, that is probably sufficient".Elisa.rolle (talk) 19:56, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
@Elisa.rolle: not sure what you're implying here, but give me a few minutes and I'll do a precise character count... Yoninah (talk) 20:10, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Here is the original text that wasn't copied from the pd source, or that was paraphrased properly, or that is impossible to paraphrase (like organizational names):
  • Hannah Amelia Wright (1836 – 1924) was a American physician, and the first female doctor to be appointed as an examiner in a state asylum. Hannah Amelia Wright was born in New York City on August 18, 1836. She was the daughter of Charles Cushing Wright (1796–1854) and Lavinia Delliber Huguenot (died July 6, 1860). and an engraver; 17 of his medals are currently in the permanent collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Charles Cushing Wright has been called "The First American Medalist";[3] he did his apprenticeship with a silversmith in Utica, New York, and then opened Durand and Wright, Engravers, in partnership with Asher Brown Durand. Wright was one of the "First Fifteen" founders of the National Academy of Design. and graduated in 1874. In 1878 Wright obtained the position of examiner in lunacy, being the first woman to be appointed in that role. In 1882 Wright helped to found the Society for Promoting the Welfare of the Insane and for many years covered the role of president. She was a member of the Medico-Legal Society, the Woman's Legal Education Society, the State and County Homeopathic Medical Societies, and the American Obstetrical Society.
  • Character count of non-pd text: 1172 characters. Yoninah (talk) 20:24, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
Paraphrasing the career section as per Cwmhiraeth's request, therefore the count is: "Hannah Amelia Wright (1836 – 1924) was a American physician, and the first female doctor to be appointed as an examiner in a state asylum. Her father was an artist of note and an engraver; 17 of his medals are currently in the permanent collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Charles Cushing Wright has been called "The First American Medalist"; he did his apprenticeship with a silversmith in Utica, New York, and then opened Durand and Wright, Engravers, in partnership with Asher Brown Durand. Wright was one of the "First Fifteen" founders of the National Academy of Design. In 1871 Wright entered the New York Medical College for Women and graduated in 1874. Later she was instrumental in organizing the alumni association of her alma mater, serving for several years as its secretary and afterward as its presiding officer. Shortly after graduation, Wright tried for a position in one of the State asylums for the insane as an assistant physician, but was refused the position on the grounds that women were not considered eligible for such position. In 1878 Wright obtained the position of examiner in lunacy, being the first woman to be appointed in that role. As a physician, Wright was successful, establishing a large and remunerative practice. Realizing the necessity for women physicians in the field of gynecology, she devoted herself to that branch of the practice of medicine as a specialist. In 1878 Wright was made a trustee of the New York Medical College for Women. While serving as secretary of the board of trustees, she used her influence to establish women in the chairs of that college, and it was mainly through her determination and perseverance that women succeeded men as professors in that institution. In 1882 Wright helped to found the Society for Promoting the Welfare of the Insane and for many years covered the role of president. She was a member of the Medico-Legal Society, the Woman's Legal Education Society, the State and County Homeopathic Medical Societies, and the American Obstetrical Society. Wright died in 1924 and is buried at Warwick Cemetery, Warwick, New York." 2119 characters.
"paraphrased properly" a 1893 PD source with the right tag (PD-notice) is a difficult statement to understand. What I did, in agreement with Cwmhiraeth was to modernize the text. stating again, withdrawing this DYK. Please Cwmhiraeth, Alex Shih, proceed with my request. Elisa.rolle (talk) 20:31, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
  • Close paraphrasing refers both to word-by-word and sentence-by-sentence paraphrasing. I did a line-by-line comparison on your work and do not agree with your assessment. You have also included several verbatim sentences in your assessment. It would be far better IMO to get more sources and not produce a Wikipedia article that relies so heavily on one pd source. Yoninah (talk) 20:41, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
the request to move to Wikipedia the article from "A Woman of the Century" is within the scope of the "WomenInRed". This article has 5 additional sources. Close paraphrasing or Copyvio is not something that can be used in this context being the source in Public Domain and that the right tag has been added to the article. But AGAIN, please, Cwmhiraeth, Alex Shih, delete this DYK, I'm at the end of my peace of mind here. Elisa.rolle (talk) 20:46, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
Me, too. It's hard to spend so much time on one nomination. Yoninah (talk) 20:49, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
@Elisa.rolle: It's already withdrawn, there's no need and shouldn't be deleted. Regards, Alex ShihTalk 23:22, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
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