Template:Did you know nominations/Garry Kasparov

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Theleekycauldron (talk) 01:52, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Garry Kasparov

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  • ... that Garry Kasparov holds the record for most consecutive professional chess tournament victories? Source: Roudik, Peter (2009). Culture and Customs of the Caucasus. Westport, Connecticut: Greenwood Press. p. 186. ISBN 978-0-313-34885-3.
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/True (Spandau Ballet song)
    • ALT1: that Garry Kasparov, the World Chess Champion from 1985 to 2000, broke away from FIDE following a dispute in 1993 and established the rival organisation PCA that same year? Source: Evans, Larry (4 November 1995). "CONTROVERSY OVER TWO RIVAL RATING SYSTEMS". Sun-Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2 July 2021. Retrieved 2 July 2021.

Improved to Good Article status by Dallavid (talk) and Billsmith60 (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 17:51, 4 March 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Garry Kasparov; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

  • Comment I thought it might be better to use a DYK that wasn't one of Kasparov's records, because those could potentially be surpassed in the future. I had also wanted to write out the full names, "...from the International Chess Federation (FIDE) following a dispute in 1993 and established the rival organisation Professional Chess Association (PCA)..." because the average reader may not be familiar with them, but this would've gone over the character limit. --Dallavid (talk) 00:03, 7 March 2023 (UTC)


General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I'm not a chess expert, but recognize Kasparov as a great, so most consecutive wins does not seem all the surprising or interesting. The alt hook has potential. However, I don't see where "World Chess Champion from 1985 to 2000" is explicly stated (and sourced) in the article. Also, the hook's "dispute in 1993" is not clear in the text of the WP article, which only seems to mention: "After a confusing and compressed bidding process produced lower financial estimates than expected..." Finally, the article's "Their match took place under the auspices of the Professional Chess Association (PCA), an organisation established by Kasparov" is not supported by the nearest citation. —Bagumba (talk) 09:47, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

As noted on the Kasparov Talk page, those two issues have been addressed. Regards Billsmith60 (talk) 00:08, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
While "(1985 to 2000)" is now in the lead,[1] I don't see it obviously sourced in the body. Perhaps if someone can quote the text from the WP page that supports this span? I'm also still unclear the exact "dispute" that the hook refers to. A quote from the WP page would be helpful there too. Finally, the Britannica source for "Professional Chess Association" (currretly footnote 67), leads to a display of "Page Not Found" from the Britannica site.—Bagumba (talk) 15:33, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
Doesn't the Sun-Sentinel source I provided explain the dispute? Dallavid (talk) 21:37, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
ALT1 says ...broke away from FIDE following a dispute in 1993..., but the Sun-Sentinel source talks about the dispute after they broke off and formed the PCA, not before.—Bagumba (talk) 07:49, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
Here are some sources for the disputes being before the PCA was founded.[2][3][4] Dallavid (talk) 20:33, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
Those sources seem to allude to the dispute from 1984 at Garry Kasparov § 1984 world championship; however, the proposed hook refers to something different—"a dispute in 1993". Also, note that WP:DYKCRIT says: The hook should include a definite fact that is mentioned in the article...Each fact in the hook must be supported in the article by at least one inline citation to a reliable source...—Bagumba (talk) 09:44, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
More info of the dispute, with sources, was added to the article. Dallavid (talk) 16:39, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
Please see the Kasparov Talk page for your comments having been addressed Billsmith60 (talk) 10:40, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
I agree with Dallavid that the issue is sorted now – and done to death! Regards Billsmith60 (talk) 19:43, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@Dallavid: I do see that you have added sources. However, my issue is probably not so much the sources (or that it's true), but with the WP article directly supporting the hook. WP:DYKCRIT says: The hook should include a definite fact that is mentioned in the article. Sorry if it's my ignorance of chess, but can you quote the specific text from the WP article that support the hook's:

  1. "World Chess Champion from 1985 to 2000"
  2. "a dispute in 1993": I see "the world champion and his challenger both rejected FIDE's bid for an August match in Manchester", but that doesn't refer specifically to a dispute. A rejection is not necessarily a "dispute". Perhaps it's just the article text that needs tweaking to support the hook. Alternatively, perhaps the hook could read "broke away from FIDE in 1993 following a dispute in 1993 and established..."?

Also, make sure the supporting WP text has a citation next to it in the WP article. Thanks in advance.—Bagumba (talk) 10:19, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello again, please see the first paragraph for the dates. You will note that citations are not permitted in the Lead. Also, I'd support your suggested tweaking of the Hook dispute text. I am unable to assist further with this endeavour. The article being GA is enough for me. Thanks and regards Billsmith60 (talk) 10:28, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
It's not so much that "citations are not permitted in the lead", but that the lead material is generally restating facts already in the body (MOS:LEADCITE). So it's OK if the lead is not cited, but the fact would then need to be stated and cited in the body. So anyone can supply me the related article quote(s) that supports the time span stated in the hook. Alternatively, perhaps the exact span is not the interesting part of the hook and can be pared?—Bagumba (talk) 11:33, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
@Billsmith60 and Bagumba: can the issues on this nomination be fixed within a week? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:06, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
@Onegreatjoke: Billsmith60 has requested on my talk that the nomination be deleted – i'll take that as a withdrawal request. What's next for this page? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 00:06, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
@Theleekycauldron: if they want to withdraw then this should be withdrawn. Onegreatjoke (talk) 01:42, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
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