Talk:V Empire or Dark Faerytales in Phallustein

Genre?

I realise that the Cradle Genre has always been difficult to classify. However, we have pretty much agreed that the Genre for The Principle of Evil Made Flesh is Black Metal. Although dispute says the Principle is not Black Metal, I would say it comes closer to Black Metal then anything else. However, V Empire is labeled here as Symphonic Black Metal, although I'd say it's sound is closer to Principle then anything else. Their style makes a significant change after this album, where it changes to the disputed 'Symphonic Black Metal' for Dusk and Her Embrace. However, I would say their first two albums have the same sound, that of which is Black Metal. The only real difference between the two is that V Empire is of better recording quality then Principle. For this reason, I am asking to change the genre of this album to Black Metal, the same as Principle. The Haunted Angel 17:24, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Vempire...?

Hi there. Of course it is V Empire :) If it does not make any sense to you, please check what is 'The Fifth Empire' :) All the best!

- Chris / www.myspace.com/cristovaozinho

Isn't the title actually "vempire", not "v empire"? I think it just looks spaced because they didn't use kerning for the V. For support, I did two Google searches:

• "vempire" "cradle of filth" - about 32,800 hits
• "v empire" "cradle of filth" - about 893 hits

What do you think of that? I think this article ought to be moved... = ∫_t^c 5th Eye 04:02, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Apparently no one thinks anything. I'm apt to move this soon if no one responds. = ∫_t^c 5th Eye 15:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it actually is "V Empire", but when I actually get back to my house (few hours), I'll check. ≈ The Haunted Angel 15:31, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, odd indeed. Mostly across the album it puts a space there, but I think it may just be emphasizing the seperation in the word, rather then creating two seperate words, if you get me. Mostly, it is called "V Empire", although once or twice it calls it "VEmpire" or something along the lines. The official Cradle site has since taken down the discography it had on there, but it very briefly mentions the album under the history bit, where it calls it "Vempire". Personally, I think we should move it to Vempire or Dark Faerytales in Phallustein, thus avoiding the brackets which I don't think are necessary, as it says on the side of the album. ≈ The Haunted Angel 00:59, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, that sounds fair to me. It's just that "V Empire" doesn't make any sense and doesn't sound like a title CoF would use. (Not to mention that the line about the combination of vampire and empire wouldn't make sense.) So, if you think we should move it, you go ahead (since I don't own the album myself you probably have more authority anyway). = ∫_t^c 5th Eye 05:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Right, will do. Lol, no one person has any more authority to move a page then anyone else, we all be equal ^_^ ≈ The Haunted Angel 18:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Looks like V Empire to me if you check out gospel of filth ([1]) On page 2 it clearly says V Empire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sir Fritz (talk • contribs) 06:14, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Exactly: We now have the definitive answer. The Gospel of Filth categorically calls this album V Empire, starting at chapter 3 page 91. Cardinal Wurzel (talk) 21:44, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

V Empire

Someone just redirected this page, so maybe it needs re-stating (it's been a while): This album's title is V Empire, NOT Vempire, and this is verifiable in The Gospel of Filth. Whether it's "better known" as "Vempire" is irrelevant. It's erroneously better known under that title. Our job here is to get it right, and the redirect soon sets people straight. Anyone that types in "Vempire" still finds the album they want. Cardinal Wurzel (talk) 14:23, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Album Name

This album's name is not "Vempire... or Dark Faerytales in Phallustein". Instead, it has two acceptable names. One is "V Empire", and the other is "Dark Faerytales in Phallustein".

If you'll notice the artwork on the CD, there's clearly a space between the 'V' and the 'E'. Additionally, the official discography lists this album's name as "V Empire", with a "subtitle" of "Dark Faerytales in Phallustein".

Perhaps the article could be worded something like

V Empire (also known as Dark Faerytales in Phallustein)...

Cparker 15:58, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

• You're absolutely right! Have created new page V Empire (or Dark Faerytales in Phallustein). Will see to fixing links. Cardinal Wurzel 23:13, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[Above two comments copied from Talk:Vempire… or Dark Faerytales in Phallustein. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 09:38, 16 October 2012 (UTC)]

• No. We do not put aka's in titles: the article should be at V Empire. (If an admin does that move, a bot will fix all the existing redirects and especially the one at Dark Faerytales in Phallustein. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 09:38, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

"V Empire or Dark Faerytales in Phallustein" IS the full title - the second half isn't an alternative title - or rather, it IS, but it's part and parcel of the full, main title, and written that way all over the CD booklet. I personally don't have a problem with just calling the page "V Empire", but I just think it's asking for trouble - we'll constantly have people creating redirects to variations of new pages that include the "or" portion. Also, do we REALLY need all these redirect pages? Don't they just clutter everything up? I can't see that anyone is likely to type in anything other than "V Empire" or "Vempire". Do we need EVERY single possible variation, with and without parentheses, as a redirect? I've been getting them deleted, but someone just put one back up! Cardinal Wurzel (talk) 11:49, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

• I have no strong feelings about the best title for this page. As to redirects, I think I am becoming much more retentionist in my views about them. Re V Empire (or Dark Faerytales in Phallustein), the one I deleted and then re-created: the page view statistics say very firmly "this must be retained". Even Vempire… or Dark Faerytales in Phallustein with a pointless … in the title is receiving a few page views and it has quite an edit history (including some edits by you) so perhaps that should be retained. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 12:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

As long as the title of this page doesn't alter, I could go either way with the redirects. Perhaps on the one hand these search terms are used, and perhaps on the other they're a bit cluttered. (As a side note, could these pages have such high view statistics because the main article once occupied this name?) However, what I want to reiterate is that Cardinal Wurzel is right when he says that the correct (and full) title is "V Empire or Dark Faerytales in Phallustein". The earlier discussions on this page demonstrate that, as that is what it is called in the band's recent autobiography. – Richard BB 13:23, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

But would the one with the brackets not still be getting hits because it comes up as a suggestion when you type a search? (Also, it was until very recently the main page for this article, and the one with the ellipsis was the one before that). If you start to type "V Empire" into the search box, Wikipedia suggests both the correct current title AND the one with the brackets, so I'd kind of suggest that if the bracketed one is still getting hits, that's the reason. I honestly don't believe a single person looking up this album is typing in the entire title. Which is why I don't think all these redirect pages are necessary. I reckon keep redirects for "Vempire" and "V Empire", and ditch any other variant. Surely the hits that those dead pages get will just be transferred to the others? I raise my hands, I don't know how that stuff works - if traffic is considered a reason to keep them then I guess we keep them. Cardinal Wurzel (talk) 20:41, 16 October 2012 (UTC)