Talk:Unetanneh Tokef

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Authorship[edit]

I have never heard of a dispute of who wrote u'nessaneh tokef. Is their any source for disagreements about the authorship? In addition, there is a whole story attributed to the writing of this prayer. Since the story has a lot to do with the prayer itself, I think that its important to first clarify what disputes there are about authorship, before anything else is added. --Sagtkd 02:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)SAGTKD[reply]

See [1]. The poem may very well be of Romaniote origin. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 04:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See also [2]. The piyyut has been ascribed to Yannai and his pupil Eliezer Kalir. The story of Rabbi Amnon appears to have been a later tradition. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 04:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thank you. --Sagtkd 23:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)SAGTKD[reply]

¶ I have amplified this article considerably. Most notably I removed a previous, innovative (and utterly unsourced) interpretation of the concluding verse of the second paragraph of the prayer ("But repentance, prayer, and charity ....") with something much more traditional (and with ample sources). I would appreciate feedback.Sussmanbern (talk) 16:40, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have been doing some research on this prayer today, and I've come across a number of sources that include additional lines in the fourth paragraph beyond what this article currently quotes. They are:

In Hebrew:

עֲשֵׂה לְמַעַן שְׁמֶךָ וְקַדֵּשׁ אֶת שִׁמְךָ עַל מַקְדִּישֵׁי שְׁמֶךָ בַּעֲבוּר כְּבוֹד שִׁמְךָ הַנַּעֲרָץ וְהַנִּקְדָּשׁ כְּסוֹד שִׂיחַ שַׂרְפֵי קֹדֶשׁ הַמַּקְדִּישִׁים שִׁמְךָ בַּקֹּדֶשׁ דָּרֵי מַעְלָה עִם דָּרֵי מַטָּה קוֹרְאִים וּמְשַׁלְּשִׁים בְּשִׁלּוּשׁ קְדֻשָּׁה בַּקֹּדֶשׁ

My English translation:

Act for the sake of your name; let those who sanctify it make it holy

For the glory of your holy, admired name Like the secret speech of the holy seraphim Who sanctify Your name with “holy”; Both those in heaven and those on Earth Thrice proclaim Your holiness.

Do you know, Sussmanbern? Is there some reason these lines were omitted? Vierteecke (talk) 04:02, 25 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

¶ Very sorry, didn't see your message until today. By the way, the Jan 28th 2015 changes in history are my work. Sussmanbern (talk) 05:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC). Reading the ArtScroll Rosh Hashona mahzor (page 484), I do not see the verse you mention at the end of the prayer. Nulman's Encyclopedia of Jewish Prayer puts it in the Sfardic Days of Awe version of a distinct prayer, Ayl Rahum Shemekha (page 68). For example, it is on page 192 of the Orot YK mahzor - but nowhere near Unetanneh Tokef.Sussmanbern (talk) 05:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We Are Helpless[edit]

The last sentence in segment 3.3 introduction - namely: "The text of אדם יסודו מעפר ("A man's origin is from dust") is very similar to Wisdom of Solomon 2:1, where it is presented as the philosophy which the Book of Wisdom sets out to discredit." - seems discordant and unnecessary, since it seems to disparage the prayer which is the topic and also makes reference to the Greek Apocrypha, which I think is a unhelpful distraction. I would not presume to fiddle with what is clearly an erudite comment, but I would strongly suggest that this sentence be relegated to a footnote attached to the corresponding phrase in the English text of the prayer. Sussmanbern (talk) 00:10, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]