Talk:Travel Holiday/GA1
GA Review[edit]
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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 19:07, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:07, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
Images are appropriately tagged; sources are reliable.
Before reading the article in detail, I looked it up in Frank Luther Mott's History of American Magazines. He says "The Four-Track News was found July 1901 by George H. Daniels in New York as a ten cent illustrated magazine of 'travel and education'. It has such contributors as Cy Warman, Nixon Waterman, Minot J. Savage, Kirk Munroe, and M. Imlay Taylor. In 1906 it became Travel Magazine and is current as Travel."
By "current" Mott probably means 1930, when the first edition of his history appeared. I don't know if any of those names are notable in Wikipedia terms, but if he mentions them that might justify mentioning them. I also see some discrepancies with your account -- date of first issue, and price, for example.
However, the biggest issue is that it appears the magazine continued for at least 25 more years, and you don't cover that in this article. I suggest that I fail this, and if you want to do the additional research you can add material about the later life of the magazine and renominate. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:20, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Mike Christie: I would like to respond to your remark about the magazine continuing for at least 25 more years. I believe I covered the Demise of the magazine in the Demise section. The reference says, Travel began in 1906 as The Travel Magazine, succeeding The Four-Track News (which we list separately) and continuing its volume numbering (hence, beginning with volume 12). I see in the reference that Volume 13 was in October 1907. Reference 20 (Ockerbloom of University of Pennsylvania) covers the history of Travel magazine. As far as I can figure Four Track News magazine ended with the September 1906 issue number 11. Volume 12 of the old Four Track News magazine which would have come out in October 1906 became The Travel Magazine-> as this magazine bought out Four Track. I haven't come across a date of or around 1930 in my research that you speak of. Check out External links of the article. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:17, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- When a magazine changes title, it doesn't become a new magazine -- see Astounding Stories, for example. In the US it was the case for much of the 20th century that a second-class mailing permit was required for a magazine, and even when magazines changed dramatically the publisher would keep the same volume numbering in order to convince the USPS that it was the same magazine. See Saturn (magazine) for an example of that; it went through three different genres and four titles. So I think you need to cover the history of Travel magazine in this article for it to pass the GA "broad coverage" criterion. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:26, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- I provided a link to the existing article Travel Holiday that was created in 2010. Will that work?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:41, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, I don't think so. When one magazine merges into another as Fantastic merged into Amazing Stories in 1980, the continuing story only needs to be told in one article; in that case the history after 1980 is in the article about Amazing Stories. So when Travel merges into Holiday there are two magazines becoming one, and only one of those articles has to continue the story past the merger. But Four-Track News, Travel Magazine, and Travel are all the same magazine, and should be covered in the same article; they just changed the title. As it stands, Holiday is a separate article from Travel Holiday, so it would appear that whoever created those articles thought Travel was the one which carries on the lineage of the two magazines. I would suggest merging Four-Track News into Travel Holiday. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:53, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- To me that doesn't seem to be the correct and proper thing to do. In the Holiday (magazine) article it says, Curtis sold Holiday to the publisher of Travel, a competing magazine. The two publications merged to form Travel Holiday. However Holiday (magazine) is a separate article by itself and is not merged into Travel Holiday.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:13, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- We're talking about two things: what to do when a magazine changes its name, and what to do when two magazines merge into a single one. I'm arguing as follows:
- Four-Track News, Travel Magazine, and Travel, are all the same magazine, and should have the same article. That's the main problem for this article.
- Holiday and Travel are different magazines, and should have different articles, at least up to the point they merge. (There are rare exceptions to this, such as Future Science Fiction.)
- When two magazines merge, one of the two articles should cover the continuing history of the merged magazine, and the other should not.
- Hence the history of Travel Holiday should be included in either the article on Four-Track News/Travel Magazine/Travel, or in the article on Holiday. The reason Holiday (magazine) doesn't cover the history of the magazine after the merge is because Travel Holiday does cover it. One or other of them should. If you want to move the post-merger history to Holiday (magazine) that's a matter for discussion on the article talk pages, and perhaps nobody would object if you did that. In that case this GAN would only have to cover the history up to 1977. But the history up to 1977 is the history of this magazine, under various titles. Magazines change titles quite often and it would make little sense to start new articles for every variation. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:31, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- I'll stay with Four-Track News being a separate article. I believe I explained in the Demise section the demise of the magazine adequately that covers the concept broad coverage. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:45, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- We're talking about two things: what to do when a magazine changes its name, and what to do when two magazines merge into a single one. I'm arguing as follows:
- To me that doesn't seem to be the correct and proper thing to do. In the Holiday (magazine) article it says, Curtis sold Holiday to the publisher of Travel, a competing magazine. The two publications merged to form Travel Holiday. However Holiday (magazine) is a separate article by itself and is not merged into Travel Holiday.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 21:13, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- I provided a link to the existing article Travel Holiday that was created in 2010. Will that work?--Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:41, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Mike Christie: I would like to respond to your remark about the magazine continuing for at least 25 more years. I believe I covered the Demise of the magazine in the Demise section. The reference says, Travel began in 1906 as The Travel Magazine, succeeding The Four-Track News (which we list separately) and continuing its volume numbering (hence, beginning with volume 12). I see in the reference that Volume 13 was in October 1907. Reference 20 (Ockerbloom of University of Pennsylvania) covers the history of Travel magazine. As far as I can figure Four Track News magazine ended with the September 1906 issue number 11. Volume 12 of the old Four Track News magazine which would have come out in October 1906 became The Travel Magazine-> as this magazine bought out Four Track. I haven't come across a date of or around 1930 in my research that you speak of. Check out External links of the article. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 20:17, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
Sorry, but in that case I have to fail it -- what you're proposing is not the way articles about magazines are handled, either on Wikipedia or in external resources that cover magazine topics. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:49, 2 September 2022 (UTC)