Talk:The Geisha

Additional songs

Just did a major edit as there were a number of missing songs that needed to be listed. This could probably be done better, but it's a start.Bkesselman (talk) 18:40, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, there are lots and lots of additional songs that were interpolated into and deleted from long-running Edwardian musical comedies. The question is, should they be listed as a matter of due weight? Generally, throughout the musical theatre articles, we have decided "no", because Wikipedia articles are intended to describe the most important information about a subject and should not contain lists of details, like a list of all the songs that were added or interpolated into a show after it opened. We generally list the songs that were included on opening night. I would not object, however, to listing any extra songs that can be shown to have been among the most successful songs in the show. I think we should remove the songs you added except for ones that we can show were particularly significant. [Please don't add any more unless you can source them as described in my next comment below]. If we ever expand the article with more relevant information, we can slim down the song list then. Of immediate importance, however: Please cite your source(s) that states that "Love, Could I Only Tell Thee" was, or became, a famous song if you want to so state in the article. Based on what Kurt said, it should not go in the article's Lead section. Thanks. -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:46, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

As far as Love Could I Only Tell Thee is concerned, the number of performances and recordings of it over the years probably speak for themselves. There are recordings by (among others) Peter Dawson and (Covent Garden Principal) bass Norman Walker. There were copies of the sheet music sold in 3 different keys, as the image I posted shows. It was obviously not originally part of the show, but its subsequent fame as a separate song seems worthy of mention. I note your fine adjustments to my input. Any changes are fine by me. I will try to come up with some better citations and more info on this talk page later.Bkesselman (talk) 05:24, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Here's a start: From Hastings and St Leonard's Observer, Sat 1st May 1937 - "Well-known local artistes delighted the audience with a varied selection of items. Clemence Bradley was heard at his best in "Love could I only tell thee" Hayden Coffin's famous song from "The Geisha" ..." (Source: Britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk accessed 26.04.2020 Bkesselman (talk) 05:49, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Bkesselman. We can source the entire song list, including most of the songs you added, to this. We have hundreds of articles about Edwardian Musical Comedies like The Geisha. All of them attempt to present a song list that includes all of the opening night songs and can also include the most important interpolated and added songs, as long as we can cite WP:Reliable sources that verify that the supplementary songs are noteworthy (important). Very little on Wikipedia can be accepted because it "speaks for itself". We have a strong policy against that: WP:OR. Someone must have written about the song and its frequent performances and recordings. Maybe in some liner notes, if you can find them. It doesn't do any good to just list people who performed it, or particular performances. You need an article, book, liner notes, or something else that says specifically what you wish to add to what we now have. But, I have no problem including it, the way we do currently in the article, even though neither Johnson nor Ganzl include it in their lists of supplementary numbers. -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:00, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Ssilvers, that's absolutely fine. You know better than I do what works for Wikipedia. Bkesselman (talk) 06:09, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out that the old song list was missing some of Johnson's items and also for bringing "Love, Could I Only Tell Thee" to our attention. I agree that it is a good addition. -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:25, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

By the way, I changed the licensing and description on the sheet music cover that you uploaded, because you selected the wrong license and description; it would have been deleted as soon as someone reviewed it and realized that you are not, in fact, the creator of the sheet music cover. You scanned an old public domain work. When you upload something like this, select the choices in the wizard that indicate that you are uploading an old, public domain work (if you name an artist, it is asking for the artist who created the original thing that you scanned) or, in this case, you can say that it is a work that is ineligible for copyright, because it contains only the title and other facts stated in a standard typeface. If you click on the image, you can see what I did. All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:40, 26 April 2020 (UTC)