Talk:The Gallopin' Gaucho

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So, is this public domain or not?

The full film is available under the plot section, but the article says it isn’t PD until 2025. Shouldn’t one of those be changed? For what it’s worth, I’ve seen sources saying it is PD along with the silent version of Plane Crazy. Nintendoer64 (talk) 20:38, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

It's a short from 1928, so it is public domain now.

For some reason all the attention has been on Steamboat Willie, even though this short and the silent Plane Crazy are also public domain now. 71.87.194.251 (talk) 22:21, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

The video portion of The Gallopin' Gaucho is surely in the public domain, but the audio portion may not be. PseudoSkull (talk) 23:47, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia lists a December 30, 1928 date for its premier (as opposed to the silent version that was screened earlier that year. If the sound version beduted on 12/30/28 then it would be public domain. 71.87.194.251 (talk) 23:58, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe this has already been pointed out, but the reception section features two reviews of the sound version from January 1929. This pretty much seals the 12/30 date as probably correct, definitely ruling out a release any later than 1/6/29. The sound version should absolutely be public domain. Nintendoer64 (talk) 22:40, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Nintendoer64, I think if we're going to make a statement about the short being in the public domain, we should have a reliable source that says so. I'm sure that your evidence and arguments are correct, but that is an example of "original research" (see WP:OR), and we shouldn't make definitive statements like that just based on your arguments. In fact, the source that you helpfully provided says the opposite of your claim. Do you have an independent reliable source which has stated that The Gallopin' Gaucho is in the public domain? — Toughpigs (talk) 23:05, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

@Toughpigs Read through this talk page for all the evidence I found: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:The_Gallopin%27_Gaucho_-_(1928).ogg

The best evidence I found, in my opinion, was a D23 article using the December 1928 release date for the sound version. D23 is a Disney owned source and is directly linked to the Walt Disney Archives. If anyone would know, it would be them. I cited that on the page in a note as well. Nintendoer64 (talk) 00:52, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Nintendoer64: Thanks for the link, I understand the conversation better now.

I have another source that might be helpful: Walt Disney's Mickey Mouse: The Ultimate History, by J.B. Kaufman and David Gerstein, published by Taschen in 2018. Kaufman and Gerstein are well-known Disney historians, and the book is very well-researched. They don't list release dates at all for the first four Mickey Mouse cartoons (Steamboat Willie, Gallopin' Gaucho, Plane Crazy or The Barn Dance). On page 38, they describe Disney's contract with Pat Powers' company Powers Cinephone:

"Along with sound recording, Powers' interests included film distribution. His company distributed films according to the 'state's rights' system, subcontracting the exhibition rights for a particular state or territory to regional distributors. During Walt's stay in New York, Powers offered to distribute the Mickey Mouse series through this network. Ultimately Walt and Roy agreed, and by mid-December 1928, distributors were contacting the Powers office in New York to sign contracts.

"The states'-rights market was a disorganized way of distributing motion pictures; regional distributors could acquire a film at any time, and theaters in their territories were likely to book films, especially short subjects, on a haphazard schedule. Because of this, Mickey Mouse did not have an overnight success. Steamboat Willie enjoyed a successful New York opening in November 1928, but word began to spread slowly, and delighted viewers in Chicago were just discovering it for themselves in June 1929."

On the next page, Kaufman and Gerstein have a caveat before they start listing the next 11 Mickey shorts with dates:

"Because of the variable timing of Powers's states-rights distribution, there are no definitive release dates for the first fifteen Mickey Mouse pictures. The dates listed below are not release dates but shipping dates, when the Disney studio shipped the completed films to the Powers office in New York."

The first "shipping date" listed is March 20, 1929 for The Opry House.

Personally, I think this source is more reliable than a D23 blog post. It appears that there is some confusion around exactly what a "release date" would even mean, when it comes to the early Mickey Mouse shorts. That would make me cautious about making bold statements about copyright status. I'm curious what you think of this additional source. Toughpigs (talk) 02:17, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

@Toughpigs Hm, that would explain all the confusion. Still, no matter the “ship date”, copyright status is determined by first premiere, not wide release. While the book does explain why the release is so obfuscated, it doesn’t change the fact (or really even dispute) that if it premiered in December 1928 it is public domain. Copyright status is an all-or-nothing area, either it’s public domain or not. I think, taken together, the D23 post and newspaper reviews from early Jan. 1929 are ample evidence. Yes, a blog post is definitely not the best evidence (and I have sent in a request to the archives to answer the question once and for all), but Disney is notoriously on top of their PR and I doubt they would mess up a release date when it would only benefit them to put it later. Thanks for the extra reaource! Nintendoer64 (talk) 02:29, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I also found another source - Mickey's Movies: The Theatrical Films of Mickey Mouse by Gijs Grob, published by Theme Park Press in 2018. That book dates Gaucho at December 30, 1928. I'm glad that you wrote to the archives to see if you can get more definitive information! Toughpigs (talk) 02:32, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Video needs audio removed because it is still copyrighted

A lot of YouTube videos with the audio with this movie that were uploaded today have been striked down by Disney. I uploaded the movie without the audio on YouTube and it has not been copyright striked, so I assume it needs to be removed from here ASAP. 2TB (talk) 00:50, 2 January 2024 (UTC)