Talk:Tahrir

Effort to introduce Arabic on this page

This edit deleted what was termed a "very unprofessional" effort to bridge from Arabic to English on this page. I think it's a loss for the page. It was all sourced. No doubt it could have been improved. Even by a professional, should we be so fortunate. I don't know of any Wikipedia policy that requires professionalism, and none was cited. Sort of runs against the whole idea, if you ask me; at least at some level. Professionalism is not forbidden, of course, but required?

Efforts are being made, noted here and to a lesser degree here, to encourage a definition of the word on Wiktionary and otherwise improve the linkages around this page. But just deleting the Arabic? Any thoughts? I'd like to return the Arabic to this page. Swliv (talk) 21:41, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Someone else formalized the opening a bit, and I just added the bare Arabic-script words in parens. Hope it's ok.

I think I had it pretty well worked out in my mind that one of the words was the adjective form, the other the noun. I had the noun form identified in my unprofessional way. If anyone can notate the words accordingly "n.," say, and "a.", with full knowledge (I know my limits), I'd appreciate it. I think all would. Swliv (talk) 05:20, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Is Tahrir Square, Cairo, now the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC?

If others agree that this is as clearly the case as I believe it to be, then this page should be moved to Tahrir (disambiguation) so that Tahrir can redirect to Tahrir Square. Certainly, the media are now full of references to "Tahrir," simply - the spirit of Tahrir, etc. Wareh (talk) 15:32, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I think that is mostly referred to as "Tahrir Square". 65.93.15.125 (talk) 22:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

That's not inconsistent with what I'm saying, which is that when "Tahrir" is mentioned by itself (however less frequent that may be), it is the meaning "Tahrir Square, Cairo," that preponderates.[1] The article Tahrir Square would not move under my suggestion, of course. Wareh (talk) 02:31, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

My first reaction, too, was to disagree with the suggestion. I converted this to be a disambiguation page, in effect and in the footer-box if not in the page-title, early in the Egyptian uprising. At that time it was a redirect to Hizb ut-Tahrir, had been that for about three years I think; despite some earlier editors thinking in that time that it should not be tied just to that specific usage. I went to considerable effort, and found many surprises, Fatah maybe the largest (and that from one of those early editors, in the history), in building this page. I Googled "Tahrir" a couple of days ago and got this page and "Tahrir Square" one and two i.e. no possible confusion. I know it's huge in Egypt -- and worldwide, regarding Egypt -- right now, and I'm certainly interested in it and working on it because of Egypt. I do think, though, the word alone is worthy of standing on its own, as an entry; as it would, I know, under this suggestion. I recently reorganized a bit so "Tahrir Square" is near the top and quickly identifiable if someone comes to "Tahrir" looking for the Square. And I've thought of refining the page more, using "Place names"- and "Organizations"-type sub-heads. And I came back here tonight to look again at getting the Arabic-script ... back on the page (see above).

In recent days, reflecting a little, I've thought "Wow. 'Liberation.' That was a huge word globally (way beyond the Arabian world, though I expect that's how/when the Cairo square first got its name) over the last many decades, all the 'national liberation' movements." I haven't figured how to make that link yet ... from here. But I think it's a worthwhile way to go. To connect the great power of the Egyptian uprising to that larger history. (And I'm not promoting any Marxist agenda, here, either. ... I have to add.)

Having said all that, I could see this page re-titled as suggested: it is undeniably a disambiguation page. However, I guess I'm still not inclined to have "Tahrir" redirect to the Square page. (Among other things, at least in my somewhat catch-as-catch-can sense of it, the real story of the uprising -- "the spirit" if you will -- is at Egyptian Revolution of 2011, not at Tahrir Square. Though that may be irrelevant.) Meanwhile, I think Wiki does a good job to educate each person who comes in looking for Tahrir, to give the basic definition and show it's widely used. If the person's headed for the Square, on they can then easily go. I'm good with that.

Finally, primary? ... I think I've answered it, but, in a word, from the work I've done, no. As big and perhaps in this moment central as Tahrir Square is, I don't think it's best to call it the primary use of the word.

Well, long response. Lots of emphasis. I hope some insight. Swliv (talk) 05:01, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, from the Liberation (disambiguation) page actually, I see there already is a Tahrir (disambiguation) page and it redirects to Tahrir. ... I'm fine with it staying that way. And I was glad to see Tahrir over there, ... of course. Swliv (talk) 05:24, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Tahrir defterleri

"Tahrir defterleri" has been added as an "Other use" of the term Tahrir. I queried it here with the responsible editor, and the discussion has narrowed to the question: Is there a linguistic relationship between the historical Ottoman term meaning "fiscal survey" (more at the linked discussion) and the Arabic meaning "liberation". We're both at our limit of knowledge. Any ideas on answering the question? Swliv (talk) 16:37, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I asked the helpdesk. bobrayner (talk) 17:48, 2 November 2011 (UTC)