Talk:Steve Jobs/Archive 1

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Where do I find Steve Jobs' email address??

Steve publicized steve at mac dot com when he rolled out iTools .Mac, and when he sends out company wide emails, they are from sjobs at apple dot com (Apple uses the convention of fist initial, last name for default email addresses.) Both addresses are most likely screened, and if you get a reply, it may or may not be from him. Hes Nikke 09:05, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC):

Nope, Steve reads his own e-mail. sjobs at apple dot com and sjobs at pixar dot com will both reach him.
the apple address is screened, I remember a while back a news story about someone having problems with a new Mac so they emailed him. In the story it said that his secretary passed on the message and he phoned them up to sort it out - which is why it made the news. I'm sure someone will be able to find the link. Matt Peacock 17:53, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Any thought to balancing...

Any thought to balancing the following "Described as an enfant terrible and mean-spirited, many have found him difficult to work with." with something like "Largely credited to turning AppleComputer back into a successful company."

Annual salary?

How is he a billionaire if he is paid only $1 per year??? SD6-Agent 04:54, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Steve gets major bonuses in the form of stock options and gifts (like a private jet) - he is also the CEO of Pixar who probably pays him a bit more than $1/year salary... $52/year. ;) Hes Nikke 09:05, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)
Also, it should be noted that the $1 salary was in addition to a generous gift of a corporate jet and other stuff. In fact, he actually gained the title of the highest paid CEO: http://www.macnn.com/news/20608:
He's a billionare cause he owns a lot of Pixar. And billionaires don't need salaries.
Why is his salary listed as $401,000+, then?
I definately think his salary should be listed as $1 it's a very nice gimmic! :) --Opspin 17:07, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

--Please enlighten us all by giving the reference source for the $401,000 annual salary figure. Thanks.


Steve Jobs is as greedy as any other American CEO who's face looks like money. Don't get your hopes up: he's not a philanthropist. -- Orz 01:27, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The previous comment expresses class bias inappropriate under Wikipedia's NPOV policy. I invite the writer to remove it.

I like how it's generally the unintelligent (those unable to grasp simple grammatical rules) that like to accuse large corporations of being greedy and evil.

Lisa

First daughter Lisa (after whom the Apple Lisa was named) really should be mentioned! - David Gerard 00:44, Feb 15, 2004 (UTC)

Who is the Mother of Lisa??? - just added to page by an anon. I had a copy of The Journey Is The Reward (paperback ISBN 155802378X, hardback ISBN 0673188647) in Australia, but not here in London. This talks at length about this time in Steve's life. Anyone got a copy to hand?
No, but she seems to go by "Lisa Brennan-Jobs". Dunno if she's hyphenating mom's name or a husband's (or if she's a madcap heiress with a penchant for double-barrelled surnames). - Nunh-huh 04:17, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

FastCompany reported that she fronted for the band "The Other brothers."

(See the article on main page)

Father

"An Egyptian Arab father (name unknown)". Unknown by who? Does his mother know? Was it dark? - Jerryseinfeld 23:29, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

We don't know. :-) Stan 22:09, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Who? Who doesn't know?--Jerryseinfeld 19:23, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
"We the readers and editors of Wikipedia". It's remarkable how many people are bothered by this one phrase - maybe his mother knows and is not saying, maybe everybody in the Jobs clan knows, maybe it really was dark. The information has simply not been published, nor has anybody even said whether 0, 1, 2, or 100 people know the name. So "(name unknown)" is correctly vague. Stan 22:42, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC
That information has never been publicly released. I assume that since Mr. Jobs has met his sister, Mona Simpson, who has the same father, that he knows. He's not telling as of this date. Alan 00:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

(See the article on main page)

Do somereal biographical and significance work, here

The bio section is pitifully inadequate. Personally, I'm not that familiar with Jobs, though I know he has made significant contributions - technically and business-wise. But I think that is not all. And besides, apart from brains and persistence, what led the man to be a pioneer in this computer field and what made him successful?

What is his vision? What is his philosophy? How did childhood and adolescent experiences open up the world of possibilities for him? What did he do for work and training before meeting big success ("the child is the father of the man"). What has he wanted to give to humanity??

Besides some of the business details, this article is unenlightening. On the bio level, it's like some superficial fanzine crap out of Us or People magazines.

I want to get familiar with who Mr. Jobs is, and this article does not yet do a lot for me. Best, J.R.

We've just been waiting for you to get busy and write it, since you clearly have a good idea of what needs to be added. Stan 22:09, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I would not have written what I did (above) if I felt I was in touch with the needed info. Steve Jobs' life is not a pet interest of mine, in the way that maybe some others' lives are. Others can probably do a better job with Jobs. But I would enjoy reading it, and other people probably would, as well.

But to point to a few articles in the Wikipedia that include the kind of content I think should be there, look at the articles on Buckminster Fuller, Amory Lovins, J.R.R. Tolkien, Karl Hess. Many others, too. J.R.

Just read through The second Coming of Steve Jobs, and it shades a little more light on his father: He was a Political Science Professor, who was of Middle eastern decent, so he probably wasn’t form the Middle East him self. Maybe that can be added to the article??

See note under "Father" above. (See the article on main page)

Non Objective

This love-fest for Steve Jobs is probably the most non-neutral article in the whole Wikipedia.

Can you give examples which parts are non-neutral? Your comment is probably the most non-informative statement in the whole Wikipedia. If you think I'm a Steve Jobs lover, look at my page contributions which are nothing related to Apple Computers or Steve Jobs. (did a minor edit for "The Incredibles" article ages ago but that's the only Steve Jobs-related article that I edited) --Anonymous Cow 02:18, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hey, if you don't like this article, go read about him somewhere else.

Too Much (apparently) Implied

... and not enough said.

We can look back and see that there has been a communications revolution, and that micro computers have been the means of this development. But this (Wikipedia) is an encyclopedia, and the point of articles is to inform, to spell things out.

For instance, the article says " Jobs lured John Sculley from Pepsi-Cola to run Apple, challenging him, "Do you want to just sell sugared water for the rest of your life, or do you want to "change the world"?" How did Jobs envision changing the world? Why did he believe this change would be a good thing?

Answering these sorts of embedded questions is what an encyclopedia article should do.

Not doing this just leaves everything smacking of fan club.

I say the above even though I have switched to a Mac and like it very much. But Wikipedia is no place for a fan club. -J.R.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "Do you want to just sell sugared water..." is a direct quote from Jobs himself. (In fact, I'm pretty sure it is: See [1] and [2]) --Tyler
Yep that's right Tyler. Matt Peacock 21:42, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
The quotation is recited by Mr. Sculley himself in an interview in the documentary "Triumph of the Nerds" (Robert X. Cringely, 1996, first aired on PBS) and can be found on the transcript webpage http://www.pbs.org/nerds/part3.html, in which Mr. Sculley recalls his meeting with Mr. Jobs: "And then he looked up at me and just stared at me with the stare that only Steve Jobs has and he said do you want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life or do you want to come with me and change the world and I just gulped because I knew I would wonder for the rest of my life what I would have missed."

permission, please

I feel the brief history/business venture split in this article is not a happy one. Would anyone object to a tasteful restructing? I am not looking to delete anything. -- Viajero 14:02, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. Stan 23:03, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Article on Steve Jobs

Hi. I read an article on Steve Jobs a few years ago, and it was absolutely devastating. Among other things, the author quoted Jobs saying "fuck 'em!" when reminded that Apple customers would be upset when Jobs pulled the plug on a vendor who was supplying customer support. What emerged from the article was a nasty, bullying person who actually makes Bill Gates look good by comparison. Problem is, I can't remember what the magazine was! I'd love to track down that article, but there have been so many written about him that typical reference tools are no good. It was in a wide-circulation magazine such as Esquire and probably written in the late 1990s but no later than 2003. Anyone know what the article/journal was??

Not sure if this is it, or gets you any closer to it, but here's a quote: "In his book, The Second Coming Of Steve Jobs, Alan Deutschman says that one of Jobs’s favorite saying is “f*** ‘Em”, when speaking about vendors, suppliers, competition, and customers." It's from an on-line article at : http://www.macnet2.com/more.php?id=A329_100_1_0 -J.R.

iCon - Divorce from Laurene?

Under Personal Life, editer cites iCon as covering Jobs's divorce from Laurene Jobs. The problem is, I'm almost positive they are still married and have been unable to find anything to the contrary. Can anyone confirm? Thanks. Bbatsell 06:09, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Apple's page on him says he's still married as of Dec 2004. I haven't read iCon, though. Uttaddmb 21:28, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Judging from the commencement address he gave at Stanford, they are still married. Since no one has provided a source, I'm going to remove the reference. If someone can provide one, please post here and re-instate it in the article. Bbatsell 14:18, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • User:217.155.116.125 has re-added this tidbit. If someone can provide a source, please do so, otherwise, please refrain from posting information with no factual basis to back it up. Bbatsell 29 June 2005 15:38 (UTC)

I havn't found Information to back this up either, be it on Apple's site, Pixar's Site, or even Laurene Jobs' Executive Profile online. I have seen no evidence of this, so I've changed the wording to his "Supposed" Divorce from Laurene", though I don't believe there is one. Pipiann 6 July 2005 21:13 (UTC)

However, the book originally covered his supposed divorce from Laurene, whereas this has been silently removed from copies currently on sale. Several online sources indicate that Jobs and Laurene are still married.
divorces are a matter of public record in California. If any judgement of divorce had been entered, we'd know. Upshot: it was never anything more than a rumor.

I've pulled the following bit about his maybe/maybe not divorce and the book. Do we have any sources that even back up the idea that it was in the book and then removed? I never noticed any reviews that mentioned this. Until we know one way or the other, I'd suggest this whole bit stays out. AlistairMcMillan 16:28, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

I have a prerelease, unedited proof of this book and don't see it anywhere, so this seems apocryphal. Jsnell 01:22, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Pictures on this site (http://www.wireimage.com/GalleryListing.asp?navtyp=gls=1=7==153641&nbc1=1) pretty much confirm that they are still married as of December 13, 2005. Jdude204 17:55, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

The book must be false, Laurene Jobs was at the Apple NY cube store opening in 2006. — Wackymacs 18:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Interesting steve jobs speech

Hi, I am absolutely positively completely crap at writing, but I thought I'd post the following on here: http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html and then say what I'm about to say which is that it includes some interesting information that I think could be used to flesh the article out. Also, we know he's a vegan, in that speech he talks about going to the local hare krishna temple, I find this interesting... one gets the impression he might have beliefs set in new age eastern philosophies because I've seen him use several ideas very much associated with them casually in other speeches.

Why are people insisting on changing the promotional/press release mugshot?

I don't about you guys but I perfer the 2000 press release mugshot compare to other photos people have submitted/replaced. The current one with the Associated Press copyright information on the right side of the image doesn't look good as the PR photo. --Chill Pill Bill 20:56, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not only that, but the AP image is almost certainly a copyvio (fair use is not a strong argument when other pictures are available), and will be deleted. Feel free to change the picture back. Stan 21:17, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
First reason is the very bad quality and angle perspective of this mugshot. Secondary, because it is quite old, and third because it is a copyvio. Quantis 10:44, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I could understand your opinions for the first two reasons. However, the third reason... The other two photos that people have replaced have questionable copyright issues while the Apple's press mugshot doesn't. From Image Use Agreement Subject to the terms of this Agreement, you may use the Image solely in whole for editorial use by press and/or industry analysts. This right to use is personal to you and is not transferable by you to another party. The Image cannot be used to promote or sell any product or technology (such as on advertising, brochures, book-covers, stock photos, t-shirts, or other promotional merchandise). You may not alter, or modify the Image, in whole or in part, for any reason.
Heck, the Bill Gates Wikipedia article use an old press photo of him, too. --Chill Pill Bill 17:16, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've moved the more recent pic to the lead and this "mugshot" to the early history section. Always use the most recent photo in the lead to give people a realistic image of the subject.

The 'most recent photo' that was being restored without justification was a copyrighted AP photo. The current one appears to be fine. Bbatsell 05:16, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Heh, I should have chosen a better word than a "mugshot." I guess portrait. :-P Didn't know why I started to think of the word mugshot for some reason. Anyways, I don't mind the AP photo being the lead in. (Chill Pill Bill) --Krystyn Dominik 03:13, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Baez Crack

I don't get the Baez crack: this seems like supposition unless there's a source (including Baez) who would state that Jobs was emulating Dylan instead of, you know, dating a famous and talented performer. --User:Glennf 09:48, 09 Jul 2005 (PDT)

- From "The Second Coming of Steve Jobs" page 37:

"Elizabeth Holmes* believed that Steve became the lover of Joan Baez in large measure because Baez had been the lover of Dylan."

  • (One of his closest friends from Reed College)
Mr. Jobs is a known Dylan fan, and often uses his music when demoing new versions of iTunes. I can easily believe the comment, given his appreciation for Dylan. Alan 00:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The price that Apple paid for NeXT is different from the Gil Amelio article

In this article it claims that NeXT was bought for 402 million dollars while the number in the Gil Amelio article is much higher.


- Someone has since edited the Amelio number and it reads $402 instead of $427 million.

- From "Apple Confidential 2.0" by Owen W. Linzmayer, page 266: "Although Apple agreed to pay $427 million for NeXT, it was hard to put a price on the public relations value of Jobs' return to the company he founded 20 years prior."

- From "The Second Coming of Steve Jobs" by Alan Deutschman, page 238: "As Christmas neared, they set a price of $430 million, astoundingly high for a failing company."


We might as well stay with $402 million until someone comes up with absolute proof of the correct figure.

The Apple-NeXT "deal" was an exchange-of-shares merger, not an acquisition for cash, so any valuation is interesting, somewhat inexact, and not an amount of money you will ever find in the legal documnets. The primary exchange of the deal was that NeXT shares were cancelled and Apple shares issued to the former NeXT holders. Those obsessed to have more detail can read the entire Apple-Next Merger Agreement at Apple-Next Merger Agreement

Arab father

I put back the Arab father bit because in fact he is periodically mentioned as an notable Arab-American, so the source of the Arab descent is relevant, plus not everybody in Egypt is Arab (could be Turkish or Nubian). Stan 05:30, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

- See note above under 'Father'.

- Steve Jobs' biological father's name is Abdulfattah John Jandali. He immigrated to the US from Syria in 1952 (he was born in 1931).

Fredric Alan Maxwell, author of Bad Boy Ballmer has written what he calls an "authorized bio" (see his post on: http://www.mac360.com/index.php/mac360/comments/back_from_the_brink_five_days_with_tera/) of Jobs.

He has announced that he e-mailed him (Steve Jobs) a proposed chapter comparing his mercurial character to Jandali's. Jobs replied "Are you a nut case?" signing the oneliner "steve." The author then hit back at Steve saying "are you?". (As only Maxwell would know how that email was signed, presumably he entered this prior sentence).

Maxwell says that Jandali's "identity was outed, albeit obscurely, by Jobs’ sister, Mona Simpson". (see: http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=12575_0_4_0_C)


Vanity Fair Magazine was the first major publication ever to print the name of Jobs' birth father in October 2005. The strict US laws in respect to revealing details of the birth parents of adoptive children, resulting in many legal prosecutions in the fifties and the eighties, and still very much in effect in many states, were the main reason the name had not appeared in print in this connection before.

Adoption groups, where adult adopted children are still trying to loosen laws in order to discover their own birth parentage, have voiced their support for the magazine in printing just the name and not invading the privacy of the individual with further details.

But the name was out there. Lisa Brennan-Jobs, Steve's daughter, had published the patriarchal family name back in Fall 1999 in an article she wrote for the Harvard Advocate (though she spells it Jondali).

Enough.

Placeof Birth

I have changed the place of birth from Green Bay, Wisconsin to San Francisco, California (see: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051204/GPG0101/512040591/1207/GPGnews).

His sister, Mona Simpson, was born in Green Bay. But not Jobs. - douga6

thanks for the corrections, guys. --Yoasif 04:04, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


- I believe he wasn't born in Green Bay, but the article here on Wikipedia says he was. Which means either the [http:// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/worlds_most_powerful/3284811.stm BBC], the book iCon ^pdf, this book, several others, and off course CNN are wrong OR he wasn't born in Green Bay like WikiFanatic states. I could probably find out somehow, maybe by checking out the necessary information from the California Office of Vital Records (like the mentioned article did). Either convince me that this man was born in Green Bay by using certifiable references (hereby proving all the previously mentioned sources forgot to do some serious fact-checking), or state that this man was born in freaking San Francisco like so many others seem to believe. Oh and now suddenly nobody wants to pu(n)cture a hole in the universe? --Bruce 18:51, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


--California Office of Vital Records show he was indeed born in San Francisco in February, 1955. I corrected main article but someone changed it back to Green Bay. If you want it in his own words, see Smithsonian Oral History (http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/comphist/sj1.html#tools) - douga6

Biased entry?

This article seems biased to me, as it mentions almost none of the negative aspects of Steve Job's life. I think this article should be more balanced. A few examples of negative issues that seem as though they would be mentioned in more detail:

1. His ruthless managerial practices as an extremely demanding manager. He would berate employees, forcing them to work 80+ hours per week and abusing them mentally.

2. His outright refusal to recognize his biological daughter for years. He refused to pay a single dime of child support to his daughter's unwed mother even after Job's took his company public and became a deca-millionaire.

3. Just as he accuses Microsoft of "copying" or on occasion "stealing" Mac, he did the same from Xerox.

I am not out to get Steve Jobs, but none of this information (especially the information about Lisa) is mentioned, and that makes it appear as though this were more of a fanboy article rather than an encyclopedic entry. Unsigned contribution by Buffettjr

If you can find viable sources to validate all of these claims, then I doubt you'll find much opposition. Bbatsell 22:39, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
The first two have been in just about every book written on Jobs in the past 25 years, and should be included. The third one is more problematic. Will amend when I get time. ianbetteridge
Number three is nonsense. Apple paid for its engineers to visit Xerox in stock options, that Xerox later sold for a few million dollars. Pirates of Silicon Valley is entertaining but please don't think for a second that it is anywhere close to accurate. AlistairMcMillan 07:46, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh please. If you find displeasure in the article, it's within your power to edit judiciously and make it more balanced. Doing a "post and run" is pointless, since you've added no new content except to complain in the discussion section.

Just a primer posting before I start editing the Steve Jobs entry:

While well-written, I feel that the bias of this article is clear. Jobs has a strong personality and is controversial and provocative for a reason. But by reading this article, it's as if he's never stepped on any toes or made a few mistakes. I'll put my money where my mouth is though. After some more research and linking, I'll be picking at the article, adding and editing where needed. Note I won't be deleting content, as I believe that both a favorable and unfavorable position on Steve Jobs should be presented ... Unsigned contribution by 67.169.61.57

possible spam? can't delete

It says "HELLO, JAKE K" under Early years. Can't seem to get rid of it??!

Not present for me. Bbatsell 22:41, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Ctrl-F5 to force a refresh that ignores your cache, should clear it up Sherurcij 22:55, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Does the pronunciation thing make sense to anyone? I know how to say "Steve Paul Jobs" but I don't have a clue where to start with "/dʒoʊbz/". Is this vandalism? AlistairMcMillan 17:30, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

It 'makes sense', but is it correct? The IPA transcription (and it really needs to be flagged as such, rather than it just being assumed that people know what is meant by strange symbols within slashes) indicates a long O, "johbz". I've never heard anyone pronounce it that way - it's generally pronounced (to my knowledge) like the plural of the noun "job" (American English /dʒɑbz/, or British English /dʒɒbz/). Is there any authority for it being a long "O"? There's little point in having a phonetic transcription if it's pronounced exactly as it looks. Vilcxjo 01:30, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
In fact, I recall reading somewhere that Steve Jobs got annoyed at people for calling it "joebs", following the biblical pronunciation. That IPA is plainly wrong. It's pronounced the same as the word meaning multiple occupations. I will remove it. -- tooki 16:16, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Insanely Great

please cross-link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanely_great

Lasseter/Ive/Fadell

I'm pulling the "Some of his later success must also be attributed to three men" passage. What is this based on? Why these three men? Why not Avi Tevanian or Jon Rubinstein or Alvy Ray Smith or Edwin Catmull? It seems kind of arbitrary to pick these three. Especially when the edit by 155.232.250.19 is unsourced. AlistairMcMillan 06:09, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree. An uncited assertion like that should be removed. —BenFrantzDale 11:51, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


Pixar Price

The price Steve Jobs paid for Pixar was $10 million dollars. Alvy Ray Smith (http://www.alvyray.com/) has been kind enough to put up photocopies of the actual checks (two checks for $5 million each) on his site. Lucasfilm have confirmed this figure several times in the past.

Over the next 10 years Jobs was obliged to put in another $50 million in equipment, salaries, overhead etc.

The confusion is caused by the Gary Wolf interview in "Wired". At that time Pixar was on the brink of its public stock offering. Jobs, ten years later, was saying quite rightly that the Pixar purchase had cost him $60 million - and no one at Pixar was about to argue with that. (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.02/jobs.html)

But the sale price from Lucas to Jobs was $10 million dollars. Not $60 million.


See also: Apple Confidential 2.0 by Owen Linzmayer (page 219); The Second Coming of Steve Jobs by Alan Deutschman (page 91) And: http://inhome.rediff.com/money/2006/jan/25disney.htm - douga6


Jobs bought Pixar from Lucasfilm. The second paragraph of the article gives the impression that Jobs built Pixar from the ground up when that is obviously not true. - By anonymous 204.87.87.185.

pixar salary

anyone know what steve jobs' pixar salary is? we should probably add that... --Yoasif 03:53, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Steve Jobs' salary at Pixar is currently listed as $52 with no bonus on hoovers.com

Protected

I have a link I wanted to add with an economist article about his life but it wont let me edit... here's the link, "http://economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9298983"

Did anyone else notice that Fraud now redirects to this page? Sbard 05:25, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I've protected the page to deal with heavy vandalism in the past few days, I presume mostly to MacWorld and the announcement of the MacBook Pro. WikiFanatic 03:14, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't this article be Semi-protected instead, this way all the Windows fanboys won't be able to vandalize the page, while the Apple fanboys can go and improve it (if windows fanboys don't have Wikipedia accounts and Mac fanboys do and assuming as always that all the apple fanboys are creative and well-meaning) --Opspin 17:17, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Salary needs updating as I think $1usd is a little on the low side.
No, that is his correct salary. That doesn't include his stock "awards" and his personal net worth. reference. --Marty Goldberg 16:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Also, he is the head of Apple. He pays himself $1USD per year, maybe to avoid tax? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blair Hudson (talk • contribs) 02:08, 13 April 2007 (UTC).

That is right, he only earns $2usd a year.

I'd like to see something changed in the 1st paragraph. It says that Jobs was "pushed aside" in 1985. The verb seems negative towards that movement and therefore POV. I'd suggest "ousted" instead. Repetition 14:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

And ousted doesn't sound just as negative? --Marty Goldberg 16:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Ok, if we agree that "pushed aside" is not good then what would be a better word? How about "lost a power struggle"? Repetition 02:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Steve Jobs should be added to Category:American college dropouts.

The article states that Jobs is the largest shareholder of Disney. In fact, he is the largest *individual* shareholder; there are institutional shareholders that own more Disney shares than Jobs does. 75.3.77.26 00:13, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

How do you pronounce "Jobs"?

Does it rhyme with "globes" or with "globs"? Somebody who knows might well add a sentence about this at the beginning of the article.

Rhymes with globs/mobs/robs/bobs/etc.

Returned from India "bald", not bold

"After Steve's spiritual trip to India, he returned to America bold and wearing traditional Indian wear" (Early years, 4th paragraph, 1st sentence) should read "...America 'bald' and wearing...". It's little things like this that makes Wikipedia appear less than legitimate in the eyes of mainstream media and the reference book/libraries communities. anonymous/141.153.152.25

Edits needed

Since the page is currently locked to prevent vadalism, can someone at some point make the following minor edit: change the link in the first paragraph from "Toy Story series" to "Toy Story" (i.e. "series" shouldn't be part of the link). --Hux 05:14, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. But the article doesn't appear to be protected... --bbatsell | « give me a ring » 05:22, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Pixar has now been bought by Disney, according to Norwegian media. But I just found out that I can't edit this article - I haven't edited anything in wikipedia for a while so these changes are new to me.

I don't know why, but the article was semi-protected. It wasn't even listed at Wikipedia:Protected page, so I have unprotected it. Mushroom 09:15, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I suggest the following additions. The big reasons why the Apple II became such a smash hit was, besides the beautiful plastic case and the internal modular design, the invention of the disk drive and the spreadsheet program called Visicalc. The disk drive was a huge leap over the cassette tape -- the latter was sequential and if it hiccuped, the whole tape had to be reread. As to Visicalc, that program quickly became a standard for businesses -- no more need for paper spreadsheets with their constant rippling corrections. As Visicalc grew in businesses, so did Apple II. I won't write here anymore, but I ask someone to consider this and perhaps update the article accordingly. I'm not sure if the disk drive was a Jobs or Woz idea. 24.225.133.155 02:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


Another Edit: this paragraph reads poorly (gushing/fanciful):

The year of 2007, coined "The first 30 years was just the beginning," was kicked off by the Macworld Expo at Mascone Center in San Francisco. Steve Jobs began the episodic keynote address by reviewing Apple's music business through iTunes music and video highlights, mentioning that the rumors of the decline in internet music business was bogus. Highlights included the long awaited iPhone cellular device as well as the rebranding and introduction of the once-fabled AppleTV. After the long awaited introduction of these two visionary products, there was still "Just one more thing." Steve announced on January 9th, 2007 at 10AM that "Apple Computer, Inc" would be forever known as "Apple, Inc."

Instead, suggest this which retains some color in a more NPOV style:

At the 2007 Macworld Expo at Mascone Center in San Francisco, Jobs summed up Apple's progress with, "The first 30 years was just the beginning." He began an episodic keynote address by reviewing Apple's music business through iTunes music and video highlights, responding to reports of the decline in internet music business. Highlights included the long awaited iPhone cellular device as well as the rebranding and introduction of the once-fabled AppleTV. After the long awaited introduction of these two products, there was still "Just one more thing" to add (January 9th, 2007 at 10AM): "Apple Computer, Inc" would thereafter be known as "Apple, Inc." Voideater 20:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Another edit: this paragraph, under the personal section, is grammatically incorrect: In 1984, Jobs purchased a 17,000 square foot, 14 bedroom Spanish Colonial mansion, designed by George Washington Smith in Woodside, California, also known as Jackling House. Although Jobs lived in the mansion for ten years, reportedly in an almost unfurnished state, although he kept an old BMW motorcycle in the living room, and let Bill Clinton use it in 1998, the mansion was allowed to fall into a state of disrepair. Planning to demolish the house and build a smaller home on the property, he met complaints from local preservationists over his plans. In June 2004, the Woodside Town Council gave Jobs approval to demolish the mansion, on the condition that he advertise the property for a year to see if someone would move it to another location and restore it. A number of people expressed interest, including several with experience restoring old property, but no agreements to that effect were reached. Later that same year, a local preservationist group began seeking legal action to prevent demolition. In January 2007 Jobs was denied the right to demolish the property by a court decision.[36].

A suggested fix (though not perfect...): In 1984, Jobs purchased a 17,000 square foot, 14 bedroom Spanish Colonial mansion, designed by George Washington Smith in Woodside, California, also known as Jackling House. Although Jobs lived in the mansion for ten years, reportedly in an almost unfurnished state (other than the old BMW motorcycle in the living room which he let Bill Clinton use in 1998), the mansion was allowed to fall into a state of disrepair. Planning to demolish the house and build a smaller home on the property, he met complaints from local preservationists over his plans. In June 2004, the Woodside Town Council gave Jobs approval to demolish the mansion, on the condition that he advertise the property for a year to see if someone would move it to another location and restore it. A number of people expressed interest, including several with experience restoring old property, but no agreements to that effect were reached. Later that same year, a local preservationist group began seeking legal action to prevent demolition. In January 2007 Jobs was denied the right to demolish the property by a court decision.[36].

More editing needed: The third paragraph of "Return to Apple" reads "With the introduction of the iPod portable music player, iTunes digital music software, and the iTunes Store (...)". Note that iTunes was introduced in January 2001 and the iPod in October 2001; the sentence should therefore be reordered to read iTunes, iPod, and then iTMS. 71.86.204.93 21:43, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Also in "Return to Apple": "Jobs is both admired and criticized (...) during his keynote speeches (colloquially known as "Stevenotes") at Macworld Expos." Append "and Worldwide Developers Conferences." 71.86.204.93 21:50, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Near the end of the article: "After over two decades of no public meeting interaction between Jobs and Bill Gates, in May 2007 came the announcement of a joint scheduled interview between the two technology icons." The meeting happened and this article needs to updated. 71.86.204.93 22:09, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Mona Simpson is a half-sister?

Is Mona Simpson really 100% biological sister of Steve Jobs. The reason I'm questioning this. I came across this Salon.com interview of Mona Simpson. An excerpt of the interview: ... All right, your half-brother, Steve Jobs [co-founder of Apple Computers]. I tried again to see another outside source that is saying this. It is the official Amazon.com review (non customer but an employee) of a Mona Simpson book saying, "...Mona Simpson's half-brother and the founder of Apple Computers" --J. Nguyen 01:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Ms. Simpson is a full sister of Mr. Jobs. Both her parents are the same people as both of his biological parents. See iCon for further info.Alan 01:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

How much was Woz share of the Atari bonus

The article currently contains this text:

He made a deal with Stephen Wozniak: the bonus would be split evenly between them, if Woz could create a circuit board with a minimal number of chips. ... At the time, Jobs told Wozniak that Atari had only given them $500 (rather than $5000), and that Wozniak's share was thus $350.

So, if they agreed to split the bonus evenly and Jobs told Woz that he got $500 -- wouldn't half of that be $250, not $350? Something then is wrong... is the $500 wrong or the $350 wrong? --dharris Thats not ture in the book iWoz by steve wozniak steve jobs took more the the 50/50 i can't remember really what it was but steve wozniak didn't care


-- See: http://www.woz.org/letters/general/91.html

LSD Experiences: Why is this here?

"In an interview in the book What the Dormouse Said: How the 60s Counterculture Shaped the Personal Computer, Markoff gets Apple CEO Steve Jobs on the record talking about how taking LSD was one of the most important influences in his life"

The sentence doesn't even have puncuation, and I really do not think it belongs in the article.

I fixed it and added the reference. He's stated repeatedly that his experiences have been extremely important influences on his life, so they're as deserving of inclusion of anything else. - zambaccian
Interesting that this has been removed from the article. While I think it's interesting and important, I don't care to engage in edit wars with fanboys (or white-bread PR reps). --76.168.51.139 (talk) 08:52, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I put it back in, in a more appropriate place and phrased better. If you have any issues with the passage please discuss them here.--Zambaccian (talk) 08:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Steve Jobs was not fired, He quit

Steve Jobs was not fired, He quit after a power struggle with the board which in the end the board won and stripped him of most of his power and isolated him from much of the company. "In the documentary Triumph of the Nerds, the reaction to Jobs' famous firing from Apple by CEO John Sculley and the Apple Board of Directors was talked about by various people:"

Peer review follow up

Greeting all. A while ago there was a peer review request made for this article. Having done a fairly extensive review (Wikipedia:Peer review/Steve Jobs/archive1), I was disappointed not to see any responses to the review I conducted. I agree this article should be featured sometime and would like to know what has been done following the review. Thank you. -Fermion 09:16, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


Arab biological father

I put back the Arab father bit because in fact he is periodically mentioned as an notable Arab-American, so the source of the Arab descent is relevant, plus not everybody in Egypt is Arab (could be Turkish or Nubian). Stan 05:30, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

- See note above under 'Father'.

- Steve Jobs' biological father's name is Abdulfattah John Jandali. He immigrated to the US from Syria in 1952 (he was born in 1931).

Fredric Alan Maxwell, author of Bad Boy Ballmer has written what he calls an "authorized bio" (see his post on: http://www.mac360.com/index.php/mac360/comments/back_from_the_brink_five_days_with_tera/) of Jobs.

He has announced that he e-mailed him (Steve Jobs) a proposed chapter comparing his mercurial character to Jandali's. Jobs replied "Are you a nut case?" signing the oneliner "steve." The author then hit back at Steve saying "are you?". (As only Maxwell would know how that email was signed, presumably he entered this prior sentence).

Maxwell says that Jandali's "identity was outed, albeit obscurely, by Jobs’ sister, Mona Simpson". (see: http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=12575_0_4_0_C)


Vanity Fair Magazine was the first major publication ever to print the name of Jobs' birth father in October 2005. The strict US laws in respect to revealing details of the birth parents of adoptive children, resulting in many legal prosecutions in the fifties and the eighties, and still very much in effect in many states, were the main reason the name had not appeared in print in this connection before.

Adoption groups, where adult adopted children are still trying to loosen laws in order to discover their own birth parentage, have voiced their support for the magazine in printing just the name and not invading the privacy of the individual with further details.

But the name was out there. Lisa Brennan-Jobs, Steve's daughter, had published the patriarchal family name back in Fall 1999 in an article she wrote for the Harvard Advocate (though she spells it Jondali).

Enough.

Place of Birth

I have changed the place of birth from Green Bay, Wisconsin to San Francisco, California (see: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051204/GPG0101/512040591/1207/GPGnews).

His sister, Mona Simpson, was born in Green Bay. But not Jobs. - douga6

thanks for the corrections, guys. --Yoasif 04:04, 10 December 2005 (UTC)


- I believe he wasn't born in Green Bay, but the article here on Wikipedia says he was. Which means either the [http:// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/worlds_most_powerful/3284811.stm BBC], the book iCon ^pdf, this book, several others, and off course CNN are wrong OR he wasn't born in Green Bay like WikiFanatic states. I could probably find out somehow, maybe by checking out the necessary information from the California Office of Vital Records (like the mentioned article did). Either convince me that this man was born in Green Bay by using certifiable references (hereby proving all the previously mentioned sources forgot to do some serious fact-checking), or state that this man was born in freaking San Francisco like so many others seem to believe. Oh and now suddenly nobody wants to pu(n)cture a hole in the universe? --Bruce 18:51, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


--California Office of Vital Records show he was indeed born in San Francisco in February, 1955. I corrected main article but someone changed it back to Green Bay. If you want it in his own words, see Smithsonian Oral History (http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/comphist/sj1.html#tools) - douga6

Jobs' quest for perfection destroyed NeXT's hardware division?

The article says, "Jobs ran NeXT with an obsession for perfection at any cost. This eye for detail ultimately destroyed NeXT's hardware division (rest of sentence omitted here)." That's a pretty bold statement, and it doesn't sound neutral to me. Perhaps this assertion should be elaborated upon (by someone who knows NeXT better than me!), so that it doesn't give the appearance of bias. --Tachikoma 16:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


Change the First Paragraph of Early Years?

How would you all feel about changing the opening paragraph of Early Years?

For example:

“Steven Paul Jobs was born on February 24, 1955 in San Francisco, California. He was adopted shortly after birth by Paul & Clara Jobs of Mountain View, Santa Clara County, California.

Jobs went to Homestead High School “ etc.

In this way, we get out of the supermarket-tabloid type details which give the page a gossipy feel instead of what it should be – an overall picture of the man for an encyclopedia.


And yes, of course the details of his birth parents are relevant. But these can be covered in two lines at the bottom of the page, under Ancestry/Birth parentage. eg:

“His biological birth parents were an American graduate student, Joanne Carole Schieble, and a Syrian grad student, Abdulfattah John Jandali. At the time of birth, both were students at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, WI.” Or something similar.

Sorry to rock the boat, but I think this could be an improvement.


It might also be worthwhile checking out the Peer Review by Fermion on the Discussion page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/Steve_Jobs).

He/she says: “The entire personal life section can be improved. I fear that it reads too much like a dirt file on Steve Jobs, however, I would hate to see this information being lost to the public.”

They have a point. But it's up to you.- douga6


I agree, but I will take it a step further. I think the anecdote about Jobs, Woz, and the $5000 adds nothing to the article. The preceeding point about India is also vague. Why was he disturbing the other Atari employees? JGorton 03:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Annual salary

Something's up with the "Annual salary" field of his infobox. Currently it's: $1 USD (Apple), $52 USD (Pixar). I won't change it because I'm not sure what those values should be. --Spaceman85 15:07, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

  • I looked through the history and the first instance that looks somewhat normal that I could find is $401,000 + USD. Being bold and changing it back to this for now. --Spaceman85 15:11, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
    • I have reverted this change, since it is a widely known fact that Jobs' salary at Apple is $1, if you search this on Google you will find that is verifiable. He gets the rest of his money through stock options and bonuses. — Wackymacs 16:22, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

"I'm sure Steve Job's salary isn't 1 dollar." was posted at the top of the page before the infoboxes. Moving it to here. 207.145.133.34 00:52, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Big Cut

I took it upon myself to follow the Be Bold mantra and slice a chunk off from the "Early Years." It was poorly written and offered little to nothing to the article as a whole, IMHO. If I'm out of line its revertable. :-) JGorton 00:58, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

  • Ehh, what the hell? - Why remove an entire paragraph when it could be rewritten? That's not being bold, that's just being lazy and taking something out because its not good. — Wackymacs 08:05, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Net worth

Where's the $7.5 billion net worth figure from? It must be reverted to the last one if a reference cannot be found for this new figure. — Wackymacs 08:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

That figure is incorrect... assuming this is correct:
[Jobs] gets a only a slight boost in his stock holdings from about $3.87 billion at Pixar to $3.9 billion in Disney shares. Since Pixar stock started its spike in October, however, Jobs has seen his net worth increase by around $750 million.
resulting in about a net increase of about $1 billion just from Pixar. Apple's stock has gone up significantly in the last year as well, but not enough for a $4 billion spike in Jobs' net worth. I'd say it is closer to $4 billion than $7 billion or $3 billion. Of course, there is no real source on this as of right now. When does the Forbes wealthiest people issue come out in 2006? PaulC/T+ 16:33, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Of course, there are dissenting opinions also:
With Disney set to buy Pixar for $7 billion in stock, there will be two main beneficiaries.
The first, of course, is Steve Jobs, who stands to double his $3 billion net worth.
So, who knows what the actual figure is. PaulC/T+ 16:46, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I know about the Pixar-Disney deal but there still isn't any reference actually saying Steve Jobs is worth $7.4 billion, I'd say this is purely speculation - it should be reverted to the previous figure until Forbes issue a new 2006 list of billionaires - which unfortunately will probably be towards the end of this year, I think. — Wackymacs 16:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

-- The figure is 4.4 billion according to 2006 Forbes list. See: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/10/HEDB.html - douga6

-- As of the latest (09.20.07) Forbes list (The 400 Richest Americans), his net worth is listed as 5.7 billion. - douga6

Steve Jobs. The OTHER side...

Steve Jobs -

The general idea that hovers around the Steve Jobs image is that he is almost a God. He is the most omnipotent benevolent geek (even though he isnt strictly a Bill Gates geek) one could find... I contend that this is not true. The book iCon is very clear about this.

  1. He likes to show his power
  2. He used to have a tendency to cry whenever things went wrong
  3. He is Selfish
  4. He is obstinate

AND

  1. He himself is not the innovator behind Apple, Johnathon Ives and the Mac OS programmers are.

I wish to focus on the last one. In no way does he rightly deserve any praise particulary for any of the products that come out Apple. (And also in terms of Pixar i think its even clearer that he is in no way the innovator there.) Yes he can see what is viable, can help to perfect them in his own rude way. And yes he is an excellent face for Apple. But in no way is he the major innovator we all perceive him to be.

The article does a great job of his life, very objective (though laking in a few places) but not of him.... I feel that the controvosy section could be lengthened, and/or a section explaining the above matters could be included...

But i still hold that Steve Jobs is a great iCon - Crampy20

Mr. Jobs' greatness lies not in his ability to innovate, but in his leadership. Yes, he can be (and frequently is) abusive and abrasive, but he engenders a loyalty not often seen in CEOs of public companies. He may not do the actual innovation, but he spurs others on in a way no one else at Apple has ever done before. Alan 01:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree: he is no innovator; he is a champion and perhaps a visionary. Look at the products brought to market in his tenure at Apple (compared to what Apple put out when he wasn't there), where the "offpsring" of NeXT are today, what Pixar is noted for under his watch. Voideater 20:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Jobs then travelled to India

"Jobs then travelled to India. He returned with his head shaved and wearing traditional Indian clothing. He also returned to his previous job at Atari, but he could only come to work when all the other designers had gone home, so that he didn't disturb the other employees."

Is this vandalism? It doesn't make much sense. Gazpacho 23:01, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

  • It isn't vandalism, and while I contend it needs work (ie: how did this effect Steve Jobs for the rest of his life, otherwise I don't see too many people looking for information on Steve Job's Indian phase as opposed to, oh, the Beatles) but that's the next section I'm trying to clean up. JGorton 20:09, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Basically it needs rewriting and a citation too. A book I have explains Steve's travel to India, its called Infinite Loop by Michael S.Malone. — Wackymacs 20:54, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Disney Box

Why is the Disney, Co box at the bottom of the page? Yes, Jobs will sometime this year become a major shareholder, perhaps a Board member, and at that time it may contribute significantly to his net worth. But why not simply list the information on the page, link to Disney, and leave the box there? -- Gnetwerker 00:58, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Jobs sits on the board of directors at Pixar, now part of Disney. He's in the template if you look for him (close to the top).--HereToHelp 19:00, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
No, my point is that the Disney acquisition of Pixar is not yet complete, Pixar is not yet part of Disney, and Jobs is not yet on the Disney Board. This is all in the future. See WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_crystal_ball. -- Gnetwerker 01:26, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Uhhh... "Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation. All articles about anticipated events must be verifiable, and the subject matter must be of sufficiently wide interest that it would merit an article if the event had already occurred. In particular: Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. If preparation for the event isn't already in progress, speculation about it must be well documented. " What is the problem with the Disney box? Jobs is going to be on their board. It is well documented and "the event is notable and almost certain to take place". PaulC/T+ 01:38, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Steve Jobs "No Layoffs" Promise (lie) to Employees & Racist Slurs

"Jobs' entanglement and connection to Apple's computer's long history of racism and harassment against minorities, or outright denial of employment was revealed on October 23 of 2001, when he made a corporate-wide live announcement to Apple Computer's employees claiming that there would be "No Layoffs for the next 2 years", ironically on the same day as the iPod announcement. However, less then a week later, dozens of ethnic minorities, many of East Asian, West Asian, and South Asian decent among others were retroactively terminated - many of whom had been harassed and isolated against federal laws. While Jobs' knowledge of this event was well known, he never explained his motivations for this action, which also involved people that worked directly for him. Later, during an Intel-sponsored conference, Mr. Jobs, who was present at the conference, uttered a racial slur directed at Asians in response to Intel's announcement of planned expansion of its Research and Development into Asia - claiming that Asians will simply use the opportunity to steal designs and trade secrets."

The information presented here is known by thousands of people - of course they will not actually come forward because they will be retaliated against. I am one of a brave few who will expose this. Apple's awyers already know who I am and they obviously won't do anything about it because these are Facts. Let me put it this way: Wikipedia is maintained by many apple employees, who create biographical articles about themselves and apple products, i guarantee that none of them will proclaim this info as false. --User:RememberOctober29 20:12, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

You need to go to a newspaper reporter, and not Wikipedia. Wikipedia does not publish original research, nor is it a tool or outlet for investigative journalism. To do so woudl remove any claim it has on being an encyclopedia and turn it into just another blog. If your accusations are true, your best venue is the public media, and not here. Once your charges are published -- even alleged -- in a reputable newspaper, they might have some claim to be here. Until then, you will need to find another vehicle. -- Gnetwerker 06:46, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Curious bystander here - what on earth is "West Asian" supposed to mean? Bwithh 05:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

That's been one of those well-intentioned but perhaps misguided PC terms for quite a while. It means Middle Eastern. See When is an Asian not an Asian?. -- Muffuletta 21:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

You don't know what West Asian is? Some basic lessons in Geography might help. Reading a book would also be helpful. I have added the exceprt again which was removed by one of the vandals. I do not see most of the other points mentioned in the article being varifiable with any given sources. I'd say this is racism and "layoffs" section is the most accurate and indisputable section in the article -- User:RememberOctober29 12:25, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I strongly question the motivations of several of the Moderators, not to mention editors on Wikipedia - while you claim that "facts must be backed up by sources" to everyone that posts something that your Gang does not want written here. Your behavior is indeed very gang-like and it tarnishes the reputation of Wikipedia as universal and impartial source of info. Reverted vandalism by "Gnetwerker" and his friends. User:LotsOfPProblems 0:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I strongly question that the two above comments were made by different people!--HereToHelp 00:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Cite sources

I only just added my name to the Project Mac list, so I hesitate to pontificate, but... jeez-o-flip!, this article needs more direct citations! The article is long enough to generate one of those "longer than is preferable" warnings, yet there are only six direct citations (not counting the uncited references). I urge everyone who has contributed to the article to go back and add a reference to back up whatever information they've contributed, using footnote form and the appropriate templates. -- Muffuletta 21:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

You don't have to be a member to contribute (welcome, though)—you don't even have to logged in! Yeah, sources and reliability are some of the worst problems with Wikipedia.--HereToHelp 21:39, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


Are Info box facts correct?

Am I right in presuming that any facts in the info box, on the upper right hand side of the main Jobs page, are absolutely correct. And because of their prominent position they would not be there unless they had been thoroughly checked out?

I ask this because I am writing a paper on Jobs and I can't afford to make an error about his birth place and where he grew up. All the text references I can find, including four different books, plus the vital records office in San Francisco, show that he was born in that city (San Francisco). And that he moved at the age of 4 or 5, with his adopted parents, to Santa Clara County and grew up in what is now known as Silicon Valley.

However in the info box on the main page it says just the opposite. The earlier "Born in San Francisco, California" has been deleted. And in its place is: "Grew up in San Francisco" - and I can not find anything at all that supports this statement. Will someone please give me the citations/references that were examined before this was put in the info box? As I say, I can't afford to make a mistake about this. Many thanks, Wallnut

It's Wikipedia and not a featured article, you think we know? I found this but it's not very helpful. Just google stuff: [3]. If a bunch of sources agree, trust the "coalition".--HereToHelp 03:24, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
The article needs to be fixed. The infobox now contradicts the main text. Bwithh 03:28, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

-See No. 15, "Place of Birth" above. Plus the two citations, one from a cousin of Jobs, one in Jobs' own words: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051204/GPG0101/512040591/1207/GPGnews http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/comphist/sj1.html#tools It is the info box that needs to be fixed, not the (correct) facts in the article. chumleyk

I changed the article to read San Francisco. Numerous on-line sources say Los Gatos CA, but I cited the Smithsonian oral history interview in which Jobs says SF. Forgot to remove "grew up in" from the infobox; perhaps someone else could do that.... -- Muffuletta 04:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Biological father redux

Someone recently changed the description of Steve's biological father, Abdulfattah John Jandali, from "politcal science professor" to "graduate student who later became a political science professor." Perhaps whoever made that edit could provide a source, because this Guardian article (not necessarily Gospel) describes him as a political science professor who went to San Francisco," and whose "relationship with student Joanne Carole Schieble" produced Steve. -- Muffuletta 14:16, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

--I wasn't the one who made that change, but the edit was correct. Jandali was a graduate student at that time (1955) studying for his doctorate. To quote from Jobs' biological cousin in a Green Bay article, December 2005:

"The biological mother was 23-year-old Joanne Schieble, Giese's aunt, whose family owned a mink farm at what's now the site of the east-side Wal-Mart on the Bellevue-Green Bay border. Jobs' father was Abdulfattah Jandali, a native of Syria and also 23.

Schieble and Jandali were students at the University of Wisconsin in Madison at the time, and with society as it was in 1955, they had gone to California to secretly have the baby — unknown to the family, Giese said."

You can read the whole article at: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051204/GPG0101/512040591/1207/GPGnews). -- Wallnut

Thanks. Good article. I added a citation. -- Muffuletta 15:52, 19 April 2006 (UTC)


PARC?

I'm not sure right now how to re-write the section about the PARC influence, because clearly there was some, but according to Raskin himself the base concepts were actually there before PARC started their work. clacke 12:33, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

There is substantial difference of opinion on that whole subject between Apple folks (Raskin has something of a conflict of interest I would say), and PARC folks. John Markoff's What the Dormouse Said and Michael Hiltzik's Dealers of Lightning are the best secondary sources here. In any case you will find that most of the concepts date to Douglas Engelbart and the "Augment" project at SRI. Most people think that PARC got the ideas somewhat legitimately, but differ on how legitimate Jobs' exploitation of them was. -- Gnetwerker 18:33, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Possible Copyright Vio

I think I recognize the sentence, "Baez and Jobs presumably remain friends, as evidenced by her mention of him in the acknowledgements of her 1987 memoir And A Voice To Sing With." from the biographyThe Second Coming of Steve Jobs - I don't have a copy of the book any longer, but I do remember it has an index. Can someone check whether this is the exact sentence used in the book? TDS (talk • contribs) 20:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


- I checked "The Second Coming" and it isn't in there. But it does sound familiar. The history shows that this one sentence was added on Nov.28, 2005 by anonymous 64.46.138.28.

It could be from another book or a magazine article. But it really doesn't add anything anyway. A mention on the acknowledgement page of a 20 year old book does not constitute evidence that a friendship has endured to the present day. (In fact it has and there are much more recent references to Baez being a family friend - including "The Second Coming"). If there is doubt about the provenance, maybe the sentence could be changed to read simply: "Baez included Jobs in the acknowledgements of her 1987 memoir" - or something similar. Wallnut

I edited the sentence to simply read "Baez included a mention of Jobs in the acknowledgements of her 1987 memoir And A Voice To Sing With" - this way the sentence is much less presumptious, and more fact then simple guess work. TDS (talk • contribs) 06:53, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Length

Aside from the warning the page is generating, the article is too long. We're having a hard time separating Steve Jobs from Apple Computer. Consider the paragraph on the Apple I for example: it talks more about Woz than Jobs.

How should we rectify this? JGorton 21:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Chronologically incorrect?

I'm currently doing a spech on Steve Jobs and Apple for class and while I was reading the section about Apple's beginnings, it states they made the Apple I, and then the next May, they made the Apple III. Where on earth did the Apple II, the better of the 3, go? The only mentioning of the Apple II was at the bottom of the section saying the success of the Macintosh line eventually led Apple to abandon the Apple II. Why is this the only mentioning of one of the greatest computers to ever come out of Apple in their early stages?

Sk8.4.Life June 6, 2006 - 1:20 PM

Steve Jobs' homepage?

Does anyone have confirmation that's really his? Resume section looks like a rant.

I highly doubt that its his, but there's no wayt to prove otherwise. Darkyoshi 00:51, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Analysis of Steve's WWDC 2006 speech

I wanted to review the less than reliable sources used as citations for this section:

None of these sources have editorial review as is the case with real news articles. Columnist opinion, Blog Posts, Slashdot threads, are sources just not reliable ones.

WP:BLP States "Biographies of living persons should be sourced with particular care, for legal and moral reasons. All negative material about living persons must be sourced to a reliable source. Do not wait for another editor to request a source. If you find unsourced or poorly sourced negative material about a living person — whether in an article or on a talk page — remove it immediately. Do not leave it in the article and ask for a source. Do not move it to the talk page. This applies whether the material is in a biography or any other article."

Reliable sources in wikipedia are defined here: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Evaluating_sources of note is the following:

Evaluate the reliability of online sources just as you would print or other more traditional sources. Neither online nor print sources deserve an automatic assumption of reliability by virtue of the medium they are printed in. All reports must be evaluated according to the processes and people that created them.

Publications with teams of fact-checkers, reporters, editors, lawyers, and managers — like the New York Times or The Times of London — are likely to be reliable, and are regarded as reputable sources for the purposes of Wikipedia. At the other end of the reliability scale lie personal websites, blogs, bulletin boards, and Usenet posts, which are typically not acceptable as sources.

thanks, ---Paul E. Ester 17:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

This is all true. However, since the portion of the article in question refers to speculation by the online Apple community, these sources would seem to be appropriate—by their existence, they serve as evidence of such speculation. A more applicable objection to raise might be WP:NOR, but really, that would be pedantic in the extreme. There are genuine health concerns about Steve, and we shouldn't try to cover them up by misinterpreting WP:CS.  —Banzai! (talk) @ 17:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Relative to the information previously included in this article, very well established sources like Wired, CNET News.com.com, and Ars Technica can be considered reliable sources. Notice the title of the previous section was "health concerns". If the article were to be saying that Steve Jobs was indeed sick then there'd be a problem but this is not the case. The fact that these reports relative to health concerns about Steve Jobs are rather wide spread means the weight of such information is heavier as well. This discussion is likely going to soon be moot as full blown news reports about these concerns are probably going to turn up shortly. (→Netscott) 18:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
One more thing. Let’s not forget that WP:V, WP:RS, etc. are only means to a common goal: an accurate, useful, readable encyclopedia. I’m fond of the rule that says “if the rules prevent you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia's quality, ignore them”—if you ask me, the most sensible rule of all.  —Banzai! (talk) @ 19:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Relative to WP:BLP, WP:IAR will generally never apply. It appears that the San Francisco Chronicle is picking up Wired's report search "sick" here. (→Netscott) 19:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Good catch, finding that Chronicle article. I’ll revise the citations in a minute.  —Banzai! (talk) @ 19:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
In an earlier edit I specified the source for details about Jobs' appearance at the 2006 WWDC in the article (moreso than just relying upon ref. links). If this "health concerns" material is to remain in the article (as it is currently) then the actual individuals (and organizations) should be directly mentioned (ie: "according to Leander Kahney of Wired Steve Jobs... etc. etc."). (→Netscott) 19:53, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
That would work, but how about putting that kind of detail in the citation template, as I've just finished doing? Thing is, if we cram the body text full of "On such-and-such date, So-and-so of Such-and-such publication remarked..." I'm worried that the article will become more verbose and clumsy than necessary. In specific instances like the Ars Technica citation, where we're hearing stuff through another author, I agree that the body text does need to mention the source.  —Banzai! (talk) @ 20:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
From what I can tell, at this point there are only two primary reliable sources for the possibility of sickness angle and that's Wired and CNET. I found this MacDailyNews link that discusses it as well. At minimum the CNET and Wired authors need to be mentioned in the article. (→Netscott) 20:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I'd support that, Netscott.  —Banzai! (talk) @ 21:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I believe these are your edits being discussed... if you support my suggestion then by all means implement it. (→Netscott) 21:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I apologize, but I gotta scoot. Paul, go ahead and revert the section if you must (but don't break the page!)—I'll be back later for your take on the above discussion. No, I'm not running away! :-)  —Banzai! (talk) @ 21:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Charity?

Although I'm not a Windows fan, I do respect Bill Gates for the generous donations he and his wife and given to charity. Just wondering if there are any reports of Steve Jobs doing the same? He's definetely one of the richest people in America right now. Mentaka 21:02, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Proofreading needed

Hello everyone. I'm new to this, so please excuse my lack of general knowledge about how things are done around here. But here are some things about this article that should be changed: Can someone please proofread the first paragraph? The word 'vernacular' does not really have the sense that it is used for and should be removed in favor of a more apt word. There are semicolons when there should be periods. The word 'aesthetics' is used incorrectly as well - or at least it is not used in a very meaningful way. "Aesthetics" can't really comprise more than 'outward appearances alone' - that's exactly what aesthetics is concerned with. The sentence should maybe be rewritten: "understanding aesthetics to be a crucial factor in product appeal ' or something to that effect - I suppose that's what you were trying to get at. - jclyons

I USD?

am i reading this right or is this a typo,his salary is one USD?


That is correct, US$1 a year. However, that's just the salary and does not include stock options, bonuses, etc.--Marty Goldberg 22:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


i would take the salary portion off because it's so deceiving Bobguy89 22:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It looks funny! it looks like it was like, faked made or vandals, but its true! :D oops forgot to sign Numanumaguy 03:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

GA Concern: Unsourced Statements

A GA reviewer will have trouble passing this article because of the presence of unsourced statements. Every {{fact}} tag needs to be replaced with an inline citation from a reliable source. Thank you. -Fsotrain09 22:30, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I only came across one statement with a {{fact}}, which I have now corrected and then referenced. Were there more? --Marty Goldberg 22:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Nope. Thanks for addressing that. -Fsotrain09 22:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

GA on hold

This article will be put on hold (for 7 days) until these minor adjustments can be made :

1. Well written? Pass
2. Factually accurate? Pass
3. Broad in coverage? Pass
4. Neutral point of view? Pass
5. Article stability? Pass
6. Images? Fail


Additional comments :

  • Image:Apple first logo.jpg, Image:NextLogo.png,Image:Steve Jobs with iMac.jpg, Image:Pixar.jpg need to give their fair use rationale.
  • In the lead section, Jobs’s history in business (rich in character and intrigue) has contributed greatly to the mythos of the quirky, individualistic Silicon Valley entrepreneur, emphasizing the importance of design and understanding that aesthetics is a crucial factor in product appeal. His work driving forward the development of products that are both functional and elegant has earned him a devoted cult following. idealizes Jobs.
  • The word CEO should be wikilinked at least once in the main text.
  • Both Even though he was the founder and the inspiration behind the original company, Steve Jobs was gradually pushed out of Apple Computer Co. for his aggressive and underhanded tactics. and While Jobs was a persuasive and charismatic evangelist for Apple, some of his employees from that time had described him as an erratic and tempestuous manager. should be inline cited.
  • Also Jobs ran NeXT with an obsession for aesthetic perfection, as evidenced such things as the NeXT Cube's magnesium case. should be inline cited.
  • Words like In recent years, should be avoided to remove timeframe in WP.
  • I seriously doubt the utility/encyclopedicness of such section as In popular culture but if it remains it wont bother the GA nomination.

This article is thoroughly well written but needs more citations at mentioned places I have requested (some more would be needed but book references are given to find the material). Fixing these minor adjustments will probably be easy so the editors should drop me a message once the work has been carried out. Lincher 02:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Recent addition of Jobs’s history in business (rich in character and intrigue) has contributed greatly to the mythos of the quirky, individualistic gives a feeling of pov to the article. Lincher 02:28, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Beginnings of Apple Computer - "pushed out for underhanded tactics"?

Is there any source / citation for the following: "Even though he was the founder and the inspiration behind the original company, Steve Jobs was gradually pushed out of Apple Computer Co. for his aggressive and underhanded tactics" at the end of the "Beginnings of Apple Computer" section? [maven] 13:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Atari Payment Discrepancy

If you read the article at http://www.woz.org/letters/general/91.html, Steve Wozniak at no point confirms that Atari paid Steve Jobs $5000. Wozniak mentions that the writer is correct on the Pong issue, but that's it. The fact that he says "maybe it didn't happen, and maybe the Atari people that said it and wrote it were wrong in their own memories" means that he is uncertain over whether or not Jobs was actually paid $5,000. I don't know how you could take a direct quote from Wozniak himself of the words "maybe it didn't happen" and then present it as a concrete fact. So even if you can present other verifiable sources to back this claim up (not news based on wiki articles, not op-ed pieces, not message board posts, but a major publication), how valid can it be if Steve Wozniak himself isn't willing to give complete validation of the claim (he doesn't even specify how he heard the rumor, just that he heard it). Wozniak says on his own site that its possible that never happened, case closed.


Wozniak was not an employee of Atari. He has no direct bearing, and is only going by what he was told. Alcorn was project manager and in charge of all expenses. Matter is documented and sources were provided already. --Marty Goldberg 17:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

The incredible irony to your statement is that you used Wozniak's site as a reference to your claims he wasn't fully compensated by Jobs, and then turn around and say that Woz's statements have no bearing. You WORK for Atari, its transparent that you've decided to selectively use Wozniak's comments out of context, yet totally dismiss the fact that he wrote "maybe the Atari people that said it and wrote it were wrong in their own memories." Loyalty to the guys who pay you (Atari) shouldn't influence how you edit pages, especially considering you can't back up statements with links to sources supporting them. The cited references support my edits, not yours.
You can't prove that Wgungfu works for Altari. In all probability he doesn't. Please refrain from making personal attacks. Furthermore, please site an explicit source (Wozniak debunking the rumor, rather than failing to mention it). if you find one that is reliable, we can add it to the article. In the mean while, perhaps you should be worried about your credibility. (Just a friendly reminder.)--HereToHelp 00:01, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Apparently you didn't click on his profile, which states that he worked on technical manuals for Atari. I haven't made a single personal attack on him, I've pointed out all along that he's posting innacurate info which cannot be verified, and that his working for Atari points at a bias (and possibly some hidden agenda to discredit Jobs and/or not give credence to Wozniak's position on Atari being incorrect). Either the reference to the pay discrepancy are removed altogether, or it remains with the wording that it had. As of yet, no one has posted a single reference link to a source that actually verifies there was every any pay discrepancy. All that has been posted is a link to Wozniak's site in which he states that he doesn't know if such a discrepancy ever existed. How is this an edit war when no one can post references supporting the anti-Jobs statements, any wikipedia editor with a working knowledge of the TOS will recognize that the statements are not verifiable with the references presented. I will request a block of any users who continue to edit this page in bad faith.
You can't block someone for editing in bad faith, at least not on the first infraction. But you're right; I did not see that he does indeed work for Atari. Since this is an unverifiable point, I say let's remove it.--HereToHelp 17:13, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
The reference should be removed entirely, then. The undisputable facts surrounding the addition of the pay references: 1. Not one verifiable online source has been cited which indicates concretely that the pay was $5000. 2. The only source cited is Wozniak's site in which he states in black and white that its possible there never was a $5000 payment, and that Atari was possibly wrong in their recollection of the amount. 3. The reference added only presents criticism of Steve Jobs ironically without referencing the doubts held by Wozniak in the only source cited. 4. The Jobs criticism was added by a paid employee of Atari who continually ignored Wozniak comments that Atari was possibly wrong. In closing, the fact that Wgungfu may have an ulterior motive for posting comments portraying Jobs in a negative light isn't as significant as the four above mentioned concrete facts. It seems the only people intent on restoring the comments to an unverified version are those who have something against Steve Jobs (otherwise why support uncited statements).
Now I wouldn't accuse him of deliberately inserting his POV, but it certainly is a valid point. Feel free to remove it, then.--HereToHelp 00:54, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Someone besides me has to remove it, because the people critical of Steve Jobs are just going to revert it and hide behind their weak claims that I'm starting an "edit war" if I do it personally.
Well, it is semied, so I'll do it. But since we talked about it here, it should be fine.--HereToHelp 11:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


Just to clear some things up 1) I do contract work for Atari and other companies, one of which was the manual for the Atari Flashback 2 for Atari. I am not an employee of Atari, and all work for Atari was done through Legacy Engineering. Likewise, the Atari now is not the Atari back then, completely seperate company. Read the entry on it. It shows little attempt at logic and research on his part, and more of an emotional reach to try and back up his claims by pointing at others when so far he has not been able to provide an actual counter reference. 2) He is twisting my statement about Woz and his bearing. It was specifically in reference to this guy claiming Woz said "Maybe it didn't happen." More than one person directly involved with the management end of the project (the people that write the paychecks) have stated this. That's where I was responding to on Woz's supposed opinion on that specific claim having no bearing. But apparently this poster is not aware of Woz's "change of heart", which is provided below. 3)Likewise, I am a historian in the video game industry as well (GameSpy/IGN as my profile also clearly states), and get paid to be accurate in my research and references. 4) The person making these claims is an unregistered user who has provided no evidence to the contrary, nor his own background info and what qualifies him to make this continued claim. His "contribution list" (he has used the anonymous IP's of 65.0.116.110 and 70.149.167.27 also shows no contributions what so ever to Wikipedia for Apple, computer, or video game material during the short time he's been here. It would lead one to believe the edit is based on personal whim rather than any familiarity with the subject. Likewise, it makes it even more ironic claiming my information "vandalism" when he sudden appearance and continued edit of it is the very definition of it. 5) The information *IS* accurate and not a "point of view". This anonymous poster is missinformed or has a personal agenda (Steve Jobs fan?) that he's claiming others have. Stating things like "people critical of Steve Jobs are just going to revert it and hide behind their weak claims" clearly show he is not neutral and has an agenda to "protect" Steve Jobs from any sort of information that may seem "critical" has he puts forth. Wikipedia is about neutrality. I had provided a source, he seems to want to keep missinterpreting. Here are several more sources including the original:
http://www.woz.org/letters/general/91.html The question abnout $5000 is asked specfically (among others in the same paragraph, and he responds with "Your observations are right on the money".
Likewise Wozniak's own book, iWoz, clearly states on pg 147 - 148: "Later I found out he got paid more for it - like a few thousand dollars - than he said at the time, but we were kids, you know. He got paid one amount, and told me he got paid another. He wasn't honest with me, and I was hurt. But I didn't make a big deal about it or anything." He then goes on to talk about ethics.
Ultimate History of Video Games, pgs 71-73 which also includes direct quotes from Alan Alcorn on the issue. Alan was the project manager who oversaw the Breakout project, and put another engineer on it when they couldn't use the Breakout proto that Wozniak designed. That is also covered on the same pages.
There's also: http://www.thedoteaters.com/p2_stage1.php
There's also this web site: http://www.arcade-history.com/index.php?page=detail&id=3397
I will be putting back in the information. If it is removed again, I will be taking this to a higher authority.--Marty Goldberg 22:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

(Resetting the indentation) If he's got sources, and they look fine to me, there's nothing you (the anon) can do to stop him unless you come of with equally "accurate" sources supporting your view. Wongfu, go ahead and add it back in. Though it was a complicated issue at first, superior sources prevail. Always.--HereToHelp 23:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for resetting the indentation, they can get way out of hand. ;) Just added back in the info with footnoted references. Same material has also been put back in the Breakout entry. If the poster in question can find actual resources that explicitly state these resources and source people are incorrect, I'd be happy to discuss it further. --Marty Goldberg 23:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

GA failed

The article mainly fails the GA criterion of stability for it is changing at a crazy pace whether it is vandalism or additions. Thus GA cannot be awarded. Lincher 12:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Jewish family

I could not find a source anywhere that says steve jobs was born into a jewish family. I'm removing it until someone finds something that confirms it. Justinmeister 21:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay. It certainly doesn't belong in that first sentence.--HereToHelp 02:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Jobs's biological mother and sister are Jewish. I think the confusion comes in that within the Jewish religion and identity, you're considered what your mother is. --Marty Goldberg 15:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
To set the record straight here I am a Schieble and no we're not a Jewish family. As far as I know Joanne is not Jewish. I don't know where that comes from, but we're of German and Swiss descent, a stubborn Catholic family. To be a Jew anyway your mother has to be Jewish right? Maybe Joanne's mother was, I'd need to see a little more evidence though, because I've never heard that and knowing us I probably would have heard about it. But the name Schieble (pronounced She-Blee) is not of Jewish origin.
Having a name "Sheible" and not being Jewish doesn't mean much, unless you're stating you are directly related to her (in which case you'd need to provide evidence as well). Steve's sister is indeed Jewish, and regularly writes about Jewish themes in her semi-autobiographical books she's well known for. What does "of Jewish origin" mean? Since Jews didn't traditionally have last name's, European Jews took them from locations, principalities, noblemen they fell under, etc. For example, my last name comes from a town in Germany as well as in Poland (and I have family from both). And there are people with my last name who are not Jewish as well. --Marty Goldberg 21:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Wrong! Jews were given names. --nlitement [talk] 15:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Left or right hand

Does anyone know if Jobs is left or right handed? --ipodracer 07:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Does anyone care? Cokehabit 13:11, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
    • I'm interested because I think it may have influenced Apple's UIs in several subtle ways --ipodracer 02:13, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Stock fraud?

Should there be a paragraph/section added about the recent developments about Jobs having unauthorized stock options? ([[4]]) I'm not really familiar with the story, and I'm not even sure how important it's going to turn out to be, so there's not much I can do. 69.128.165.102 14:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Let's wait for more information.--HereToHelp 14:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and added a very short line about this, and I see that someone tagged it as a current event for me. Someone may wish to extend or clarify it. Bradkoch2007 01:23, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Jobs was not CEO 1977-1985

In the box in the bottom of the article i says that Steve was CEO fram 1977-1985, and from 1997 - untill today. It is incorrect Jobs was not CEO before his comeback in 1997, yes he was the co-founder and an important person in the company, but he never worked as a CEO in apple. Wikipedia also contradict themself on this mather because other article tells about other Apple CEOs in the years 1977-1985. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Modin (talk • contribs) 01:08, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

Apple's Jobs Urges End to Copy-Protected Music Files

Apple CEO Steve Jobs stunned the tech and music industries Tuesday with a surprising challenge to the music industry to allow online stores — such as Apple's iTunes and Napster — to sell digital music files without the so-called digital-rights management (DRM) anti-piracy controls. www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250576,00.html Crocoite 01:44, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/ his original letter, should be in main page, because his impact on the online music industry...

Is Joanne Simpson still living?

Is Steve Jobs' biological mother, Joanne Simpson, still alive? There used to be occasional mentions of her (usually saying "no comment" when asked about her son) when she lived in Beverly Hills, but nothing for the last year or so. Seb17 15:04, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Net Worth

Can someone change Steve's Net Worth? He is not worth 20 billion dollars. I know someone got that info from an article in the Barron magazine, but that article states Steve is worth 20 billion to Apple in market capitalization. His net worth is 4.9 billion dollars according for Forbes.com 67.167.53.86 03:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism?

Apparently this guy makes $1 every year. That makes me richer than him, yet I'm not listed in Forbes...

Is this vandalism or did I miss something?--Surfaced 04:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


Already covered above. Not vandalism. --Marty Goldberg 05:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Update Steve Job's Personal Wealth.

According to the article, Steve Job's wealth is measured at 4.9 billon. This is based of Forbes' "400 Richest Americans" list (posted 9/21/06). However, Forbes has also another list, "World's Billionaries," which places Job's wealth at 5.7 billion. This latter list is more accurate because it was posted 03/08/07, and has a slightly more updated short bio (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/10/07billionaires_Steven-Jobs_HEDB.html). The apparent contradiction might be explained in that the people at Forbes has not yet revised all the content on their website, which allows for old information to remain in-- a particularly bothersome problem, especially since many of the same people appear in more than one list. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.26.127.34 (talk) 17:30, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

Barbra Steisand

I am having difficulty verifying the following sentence:

Jobs is a big Barbra Streisand fan, as he attends many of her concerts and corresponds with her frequently.

I could not find a reference to Streisand in either The Second Coming or iCon or through Google and Lexis/Nexis searches. Can anyone else verify this? Otherwise I'll remove it. GabrielF 14:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Steve's Car

Presumably, Steve Jobs can't be legally allowed to not have a plate. "Exceptions"? Puh-leaze. The article linked to doesn't say anything about Steve Jobs' Mercedes more than explaining the fact that he owns it. I'm going to take out the part explaining that he's exempt, because the car looks pretty new. --Lightdifference 06:47, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

steve blogs

hello, I have a question. Is http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/06/confession-i-use-firefox.html the real blog of steve or is it a spoof ?

It's fake, like in Fake Steve Jobs

Free images

I removed some non-free images that didn't have a fair use rationale for this article. I found two interesting free images that maybe could be used for this article: Steve Jobs alone and together with Bill Gates. I think the first image would make a good portrait for the infobox, when cropped. – Ilse@ 00:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Instead of removing images with no fair use rationale, you should add one in. - Throw 21:47, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
The image with Bill Gates is already on Commons. Image:JobsGatesJI1.jpg --Joi 04:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Dress Code

No mention of the fact that he seems to wear the exact same type of clothes and sneakers every day? That seems at least noteworthy. Maybe I'm the only one who finds it intriguing (especially the irony of monotony from a company whose motto is/was Think Different), but it's a large part of his persona, and seems appropriate for inclusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.231.128.67 (talk) 21:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I strongly agree.--Gosox5555 (talk) 13:43, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Jobs' children

In the infobox instead of putting the number of children Jobs has why not just put their names? His spouse's name is there, it'd be like taking her name out and putting "1" in its place. - Throw 00:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Disney shareholding

Acording to the article, Jobs is Disney's largest shareholder. In fact, he is at best Disney's largest individual shareholder. The source cited says he was due to become Disney's largest shareholder upon completion of the Pixar deal. However http://biz.yahoo.com/t/18/4013.html says that Jobs currently holds just 3(!) Disney shares. It showns an acquisition of 138,000,004 shares, followed by a statement of ownership of 3 shares, both dated 5-May-06. 81.76.107.126 20:09, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

adding quotations

Wouldn't it be a good idea to add all the steve's best quotes in the article, he really has legendary one liners. It'll be a nice addition to the profle. Check the quotations here Randhirreddy 16:52, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey Randhirreddy, Wikipedia has a companion project called Wikiquote that does have a lot of Steve Jobs quotes. There is a link to Steve's page on Wikiquote on the right in the "External links" section. In general, though, quotes shouldn't go in Wikipedia articles unless they're very notable and instrumental to or illustrative of the subject's life. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 17:22, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Randhirreddy 04:29, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

NeXT Buyout Date inconsistency

The introductory section states that Jobs returned to Apple when NeXT was bought out in 1997 and that he was CEO from then on. However, the "Return to Apple" section states that NeXT was acquired in 1996, and Steve became CEO in 1997. These two sections need to be harmonized and one needs to be corrected, obviously. Canjecricketer 18:26, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Very First Macintosh DID Include Networking (called Appletalk)

Hi. I'm not quite sure who the special individual was that wrote this sentence:

"...it would solve a lot of the problems that "personal" computing had come up against. Jobs had been criticized for not including built-in networking features on the original Macintosh (calling it an "umbilical cord to the company"), and he was determined not to repeat the mistake. "

But the very first Macintosh in fact was very much designed around networking. The serial ports were designed to act both as serial ports, and also as appletalk interfaces (http://www.mac512.com/macwebpages/128k.htm). I'm surprised no one caught this one. My editing recommendation is to remove the sentence, especially since its not backed up by any sources.

oblivionboy 00:56, 6th October 2007 (UTC)

I've pulled the sentence in question. I couldn't find a source to back it up, and looking up the supposed quote from Jobs resulted in only pointers to this page and mirrors, so it doesn't look like it was a valid one. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 06:44, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Steve Jobs

Template:Steve Jobs has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. szyslak 08:18, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Homophobia alert here!

"Steve Jobs was born on February 24, 1955 in San Franciscois a fag". I found this in the article, what is this world coming too? I'm going to change that to San Francisco. People...enough with the homophobia, let there be love people.

Thank you!

SkinnerIJA (talk) 04:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Untitled (salary)

I noticed that it shows a salary of $1, is this correct, i think it shows the wrong sort of message, it may be that he has commision and not a commision, and if this is the case, then maybe it should be stated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phillip.northfield (talk • contribs) 16:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, check on any list of paid CEOs and he'll be listed. ALTON .ıl 05:14, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Death

CNN has announced from unconfirmed sources that Jobs had died. I will add a template on the article Camilo Sanchez (talk) 14:08, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Apparently he is ok. Sorry Camilo Sanchez (talk) 14:14, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Wow, that mistake and retraction from CNN happened back in like mid August. You first saw that now? --Marty Goldberg (talk) 15:01, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

It's something that happened today: http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/10/03/doubts-surround-citizen-journalist-claims-steve-jobs-suffered-heart-attack

200.111.44.186 (talk) 15:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

This part

A "citizen blogger" posted a story on CNN's iReport Web site, claiming that Steve Jobs was rushed to hospital after apparently suffering a heart attack. [70][71]
“Steve Jobs was rushed to the ER just a few hours ago after suffering a major heart attack. I have an insider who tells me that paramedics were called after Steve claimed to be suffering from severe chest pains and shortness of breath. My source has opted to remain anonymous, but he is quite reliable. I haven't seen anything about this anywhere else yet, and as of right now, I have no further information, so I thought this would be a good place to start. If anyone else has more information, please share it.

should be removed. It was a hoax, there never was a heart attack. I don't think a random made up story from a random blogger should make it into WP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.109.173.249 (talk) 10:51, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, I've removed this. Peasaep (talk) 04:21, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Health concerns

With all due respect, I think the health concerns section is WAY too long. There's a complete explanation of the tumor involved and the effects on a human being, almost as if it belongs in a section of its own. I think it would suffice to just mention some of the facts that affected Steve Job's professional career and personal life, but people that are interested in how this is cured or anything can just click on the links in the text, right? Svenmathijssen (talk) 11:26, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


I'd have to agree. Also I'm not fond of the present-tense nature of bulletins. Those events are in the past; it's confusing to write about them as if they were in the present. Requiems —Preceding undated comment was added at 21:41, 12 November 2008 (UTC).

Protest Too Much?

The health concerns section contains a rambling, 50-line essay on the numerous reasons why Jobs' weight loss is ok (discussions of pancreatic enzymes, etc). It seems like its there more to assuage investor concerns than to be informative. Anything that puts that much effort into one side of the argument should probably call out that perhaps he's had a relapse (denied or otherwise) of pancreatic cancer. Frankly, I don't think either POV belongs here, and it should be sufficient to say that his weight loss has caused concern and that there are both benign and malignant explanations possible... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.108.104 (talk) 18:07, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, Jobs wasn't fired from Apple; after his confrontation with Sculley, the company offered him a lesser job and he resigned. George415 (talk) 21:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Face-shot pictures

There are some very nice shots of his face here, that are licensed under CC. I don't know what the editors of this article prefer as the main picture but a closeup somewhere in the article is nice. ALTON .ıl 05:16, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


The infobox image

Why does the image about this person have to also be an advertisement for the mac book air as well?JayKeaton (talk) 20:19, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Google the word "wikiganda". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 14:39, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Clarity needed

The article states:

"In 1984, Jobs purchased a 17,000 square foot, 14 bedroom Spanish Colonial mansion, designed by George Washington Smith in Woodside, California, also known as Jackling House. Although it reportedly remained in an almost unfurnished state, Jobs lived in the mansion for ten years. According to reports, he kept an old BMW motorcycle in the living room, and let Bill Clinton use it in 1998."

What does the last "it" refer to? The mansion or the motorcycle (or the living room)? The clarity here could be improved.Daqu (talk) 07:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Steve Jobs - Founder of Pixar

The opening paragraph states that Jobs Founded Pixar, surely this is incorrect as I thought he bought the studio off George Lucas. Tiki Nss (talk) 13:14, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Steve Jobs is NOT the founder of Pixar, it was a division of Lucasfilm that George Lucas sold to Jobs in 1986. Gonna have to change that. --219.93.207.114 (talk) 07:58, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Steven P. Jobs

Someone recently changed his name in the article to be "Steve P. Jobs". http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Steve_Jobs&curid=7412236&diff=218148403&oldid=218131404 In the past he was listed as "Steve Jobs (born Steven Paul Jobs..." Was there some consensus in the past on how his name should appear? Tweisbach (talk) 12:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

As usual, all changes should concern WP:VER, Sir Lothar (talk) 01:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Beginning of Apple

The intro is quite bad -- "As Apple continued to expand..." is the lead, even though the founding of Apple has yet to be mentioned! Cj67 (talk) 01:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Apple Employee Category

A recent edit, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Steve_Jobs&diff=221559496&oldid=221535516 , added the category "Apple Employee" to this article. Normally it isn't necessary to add an article to a category when it is a member of a subcategory, as this article is already in the "Apple Executive" category. There are some exceptions to this rule, see Wikipedia:Categorization_and_subcategories#Secondary_categorization_rule, but I don't this this article qualifies for those exceptions, because Steve Jobs is no ordinary employee of Apple. Tweisbach (talk) 05:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Tweisbach, it was more of a convenience to be able to see all the key Apple players in one category. Jonathan Ive is Senior Vice President of Industrial Design at Apple, Inc., but he's not listed in the executives category; he's listed in the employees category. Neither can I access Timothy Cook, Scott Forstall, et al from the executives category. While I agree Steve Jobs is no ordinary employee, the executives category has really served no purpose in educating the user about all the key players of Apple. Founder Steve Wozniak is nowhere to be found. This change really is about providing information at-a-glance. I'm not suggesting ideological changes. I'm a pragmatist, not an ivory tower feed-them-cake intellectual nutjob. I see no harm, especially since it's just 20 more characters. If I want to see a list of all Apple Inc. employees, Steve Jobs will be there. If I want to see a list of all Apple Inc. executives, he'll be there. But if you're going to make this change, do it for the rest of them. Otherwise, the Apple Inc. executives will have little practical value because of over-bureaucratizing. I'll be okay with it as long as I can find all the big dogs under one category, not in employees as it is right now. Otherwise, I think duality is an acceptable compromise. AmasianCrasian (talk) 07:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
It looks like you should not remove Steve Jobs from Apple Inc. employees. The Apple Inc. executives category has been nominated for deletion on 2008/01/30. See the discussion and the actual notice. Remember, Tweisbach, the goal of the encyclopedia is to make it more useful. More categories is not necessarily a good thing. Categories that are too large are not a good thing either. I think it is appropriate that Apple Inc. executives will be deleted to that effect. I'd like to be able to access a list that gives me links to everyone important in one place. AmasianCrasian (talk) 20:44, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

"Steve Jobs as a Creative Genius" section

This section is not written like an encyclopedic section should be. It speculates on theories, without sourcing them, and contains only three references, all in the last paragraph. It reads like an essay, and it seems to contain a lot of original research. I think it needs to be improved or eliminated outright (it doesn't add much to the article in its present state, in my opinion). nneonneo talk 21:04, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It reads like a personal essay that has just been tacked on. Deletion seems a good idea. FlyingToaster (talk) 21:39, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I happen to agree with everything written in that section, but I still think it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Sort of silly.--Asderoff (talk) 02:40, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi I wrote this section. I thought it would be interesting to include Jobs as a creative genius. This is original research, from what I've read about Mr. Jobs over the years. Hopefully someone can incorporate this type of a section in the page with the following:
  • Think different, the original slogan of Apple Computer.
  • Attempting to create products that are future oriented.
  • Aesthetic and functional perfection (impulsive buy products). Since the early Apple days, Jobs has inspired himself by creating products that look and feel better than others in the same industry.
  • Connecting the dots. Innovation and creativity is about connecting the dots. Every life experience you have adds to your ability to be creative. You have to understand what you're creating, and really come up with a thorough product.
  • Egocentricity and grandiosity- Jobs is famous for his ability to criticize products, reject initial showings of products, and make decisions based on his gut-feelings. Many of Jobs' products have been larger than life.
  • Individuality. Many of Jobs' products have been items that an individual can truly fall in love with.
  • Simplicity. Many of Jobs' products have been easier to use than rivals. This was one of Jobs' target areas when creating the original Mac.
  • Be an artist. Marketing is more about creativity than business subjectivity. Jobs is famous for his artistic thinking style, and his ability to apply those skills in the business world.
  • Unorthodox business methods. Instead of utilizing market research to come up with products, Jobs has been more liberal in his product design process.
  • Not constrained by possibilites. Jobs creates products that programmers and engineers deem difficult or expensive to make.

If anyone would like to modify and add such a section, I can come up with general references. Otherwise, I'd just like to leave this on the talk page, because it is research I have done, and I think it would be interesting for others to read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.7.3.202 (talk) 13:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

If anyone is interested in corroborating on such a section, just type in this area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.7.3.202 (talk) 13:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

The problem with such a section is that it constitutes original research (see WP:NOR). Such material is not verifiable, and does not belong in an encyclopedia. That's why we have chosen to leave this section out of the article. nneonneo talk 15:11, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
The term "creative genius" is an overly-complimentary one which has no place in an academic reference resource. It is insolent in a way, since academia is ostensibly propelled by creative genii, although in modern times it is often the case where the work of anonymous genii is plagiarised by established scholars. As such, the term "creative genius" serves a propagandist purpose in a reference work. Further, Steve Wozniak was responsible for Apple's early success, and in like pattern Jobs employed similarly talented people, taking credit for successful Apple projects. This would disqualify Jobs from entitlement to the description of "creative genius," even it had a legitimate place in a reference work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 14:48, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Jobs' vs. Jobs's

'Jobs' as a name is not plural, so the possessive form would be Jobs's, so I will correct this. -kevin talkemail 01:33, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Though [Jobs] is not plural, [Jobs'] would be the correct singular possessive form, and I believe it is also the correct plural possessive form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.225.12.225 (talk) 23:24, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Needs to be rewritten

This article is awful. The lead is inaccurate, the prose is pitiful, the layout is bad and loads of information is missing. I own several books about Steve Jobs, including Steve Jobs: The Journey Is the Reward (1988), The Little Kingdom (1984) and Steve Jobs & The NeXT Big Thing (1993). All three greatly cover Jobs's early days at Apple and much of his years at NeXT and Pixar. Many of the recent events can be sourced to trade journals, newspapers and magazines. I'm going to start planning a rewrite, and I'll post things here for review by others. — Wackymacs (talk ~ edits) 21:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Criticism section needed

Almost all high profile billionaires have criticism sections except Steve Jobs. I suggest that one be added to meet POV expectations. For example, you can point out that Jobs is virtually the only one on the Forbes 400 that has not given large amounts of money to charity. This is noted here: http://www.forbes.com/home/forbes/2008/1006/039.html If no one objects, I will add one. I like his computers, but he should have some philanthrapyJakeH07 (talk) 23:53, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Errm. "Steven Jobs: Zero - That we know of." Is this list about how much was given - or about how much the person talked about giving? Lars T. (talk) 00:39, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
The list is sourced at the bottom. They have to put disclaimers on it to avoid being sued. It came from Chronicle of Philanthrapy in addtion to Forbes. Multi-Billion Dollar donations don't exactly disappear quickly. Bottom line, the list can be backed up and meets qualifications as a reference. Anyway, that was just an example, it dosen't have to be the lone fact of a criticism section.JakeH07 (talk) 01:12, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Jobs is also absent from the Indiana University's Center on Philanthropy list (which shows donations over 1-mil) and the Giving USA Foundation list(which shows donations over 5-mil)JakeH07 (talk) 01:32, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Chronological Error

The article says Jobs lured Sculley over in 1983, which is true. Then it says the next year, in 1984, he introduced the "1984" superbowl commercial--also true. Then it says "two years later" he introduced the Mac...in 1984! Not true. He introduced the Mac in 1984, same year as the superbowl commercial, though I don't remember which event came first, the ad or the introduction. They did, however, come very close together. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jgrab1 (talk • contribs) 17:12, 22 October 2008 (UTC) Jgrab1 (talk) 17:15, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The superbowl commercial was at the superbowl. Jan. 22, 1984
The Macintosh unveiling was at the annual shareholders meeting. January 24, 1984 [5]
Commercial proceeded the unveling...and very close together. ( Less than 2 days ). --99.185.0.29 (talk) 13:15, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

$1 Salary

Yes, his stated salary is $1. However, I have previously read that Jobs started the practice of CEOs receiving stock options rather than salaries (as well as backdating them, etc.) He doesn't really earn $1 for leading Apple each year. Therefore, stating his salary this way is misleading. As an example, in 2007 his salary was $1 but he exercised expiring stock options worth $14.6 million.[6] So, the salary segment in the infobox should say something like "$1 plus stock options" to be more accurate.--Gloriamarie (talk) 21:58, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Created

Opening statement suggests he co-created one of the first commercially viable personal computers. He did not, and never has, created any piece of electronics. Steve Jobs SOLD one of the first commercially viable personal computers, designed by Wozniak. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.53.222.219 (talk) 10:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, he not only helped building them, including soldering chips, he also convinced Woz to actually build and sell the machine in the first place — so yes, he did "create". Lars T. (talk) 12:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Cult of personality

Does anyone else feel that the almost religious adoration that Steve Jobs recieves from quite a number of people deserves more than the sentence in the introduction which mentions he has quite a following. It really is quite an unusual phenomenon to see this kind of thing in a person who is not a political or religious leader really, after all he is just a guy in charge of a business which sells things rather than working in service to the public. It is also rather odd when you consider the lack of philanthropic activities of both Steve Jobs and Apple Inc when compared to those of say Microsoft and Bill Gates, both of which are percieved more negatively than Apple and Steve Jobs despite the huge donations and similar buisiness practised by both Microsoft and Bill Gates (even when accounting for the differences in turnover and personal wealth). Obviously it would need to be re-worked to comply with NOR. I could probably dig up the comparison between Microsoft and Apple's philanthropic activities and hopefully another contrasting Jobs and gates if enough people agree that this aspect of Steve Jobs should be expanded in the article. Colostomyexplosion (talk) 17:00, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Health concerns

I would like an explanation from someone up in the Wiki cloud there, about why my humble contribution was almost instantly deleted about the Dec. 30, 2008 news concerning Steve's health; viz: gizmodo.com published an article saying that his health was "rapidly declining," citing a "solid source." Although this cannot be confirmed at this point, Reuters did report that Apple, Inc. stock dropped by as much as 2% on Dec. 30 due to this news. I think this is significant enough to include in the article. <<((:-:))>>0X0<<((:-:))>> (talk) 19:13, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Probably because, as you state, it "cannot be confirmed at this point". An encylcopedia isn't the place to repeat rumors in the media. See WP:RS and WP:BLP. (and, one can never state with certainty that this report is the reason the stock fell) --ZimZalaBim talk 19:48, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
You can read WP:V, but basically, you need to provide a link to a neutral third party source. HereToHelp (talk to me) 20:23, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Vegetarianism

There should be something here about Jobs's vegetarian/fruitarian lifestyle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.207.165.226 (talk) 16:18, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Please edit this protected page

The article has:

NeXT's subsequent 1997 buyout by Apple Computer Inc. brought Jobs back to the company he co-founded, and he has served as its CEO since then

However he did not become CEO again until 2000, so please change to:

NeXT's subsequent 1997 buyout by Apple Computer Inc. brought Jobs back to the company he co-founded, and he has served as its CEO since 2000

E.g. according to this: [7]. Thanks. 86.9.126.174 (talk) 19:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Latest health concerns edit

For the bit about his six-month leave of absence to let the company operate independently, I'm not sure that's the best choice of words. He has clearly stated in the memo that he is still CEO and will be involved in strategy decisions. 'Independently' doesn't seem to be the right way to describe this. Glal14 (talk) 05:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree. It would be WP:OR to state that his intent to let the company operate "independently". --ZimZalaBim talk 05:26, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
WP:BLP reminds us that we have to be sure to get biography articles "right", and this seems like a pretty clear case of someone editorializing, so I've removed the text in question. Warren -talk- 05:51, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Steve Jobs has AIDS

www.wikileaks.org hosts his HIV+ lab result sheet photo, with name, birth date, social security number. Considering wikileaks is swedish, they were probably just morons, rather than fundamentalist christians who wanted to demonstrate the consequences of ungodly lifestyle. 82.131.210.162 (talk) 08:46, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Good luck with the verification. For good measure, however, here are some links...
Digg iReport Scanned document on Wikileaks (page 1) Scanned document on Wikileaks (page 2) 70.91.178.185 (talk) 23:41, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Steve's Biological Parents

I've checked the reference, which is http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/02/news/companies/elkind_jobs.fortune/index.htm, but couldn't find any proof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.71.136.205 (talk) 02:19, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Any proof for what exactly? Who his biological parent are? Try page two of that article. Lars T. (talk) 23:19, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

What is the matter with you all?

Steve did come back as the iCEO!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.198.134.215 (talk) 22:19, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Why are so many of you acting like 8 year olds and ruining what used to be a decent page on Steve Jobs?

His father was Paul Jobs - what dumb idiot called Justin changed it to Justin Paul Jobs?

He was born in San Francisco - look up the 2006 archives.

The purchase of what was later named Pixar, from Lucas, is fully covered in the archives. The price, the date etc. From the official sales records. Are you so lazy that you prefer to make things up rather than do decent research? You only have to click "Archives" on the discussion page. What is so taxing about that?

Are there any photos of Steve Jobs not wearing the same black shirt? I know they span several years, but let's get a little diversity. 66.112.231.137 (talk) 22:26, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Jobs does not have pancreatic cancer

Steve Jobs has a neuroendocrine tumor "NET" that is located on his pancreas. As a Carcinoid Cancer/NET survivor and activist, this is a very important distinction. I have neuroendocrine tumors on my liver, but I do not have liver cancer. For more information on Carcinoid and other NETs, interested readers should go to the Carcinoid Cancer Foundation website at www.carcinoid.org. In addition they can read the Journal of the National Cancer Institute which published a commentary on "Priorities for Improving the Management of Gastroenteropancreatic Neuroendocrine Tumors" in September, 2008 (http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/100/18/1282).

NETs are exceedingly rare, and Jobs would not be the first NET patient to be mistakenly informed that they had been "cured" by surgery. While his current health problems could be the result of something completely different than the resurgence of his NET, from a distance, his symptoms; hormonal imbalance, loss of weight, are consistant with the symptons caused by NETs. Jobs may not be able to tell any more than he has already said, because neither he, nor medical science knows that much about NETs. MitchellBerger (talk) 23:58, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

His cancer is classified as a type of pancreatic cancer, both by Wikipedia and in terms of describing cancers by the organ they originate in. Nietzsche 2 (talk) 01:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Commentaries on medical conditions within references

Why are there two commentaries on the survivability of certain types of cancer and on the possible complications of a certain procedure in the references section? They don't appear to provide references supporting the article text. Surely these should go in the relevant medical articles? If the information is thought relevant here, wouldn't a better approach be to provide a short summary in the main text, appropriately referenced and linking to the information in the medical article? --Rogerb67 (talk) 22:56, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Short answer -- yes. You're quite right. Also, I'm glad that you chose to remove this paragraph; it was really bothering me because it attempted to game the discussion through moralizing, which is against our NPOV policy (WP:MORALIZE in particular). Warren -talk- 01:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
"That paragraph" was added right back with a "reference" - to John Gruber's blog. Even if this is a reliable source (and I'm not convinced), and John Gruber is a significant commentator (possible, I don't know), this is still not an appropriate opening paragraph. Having read the article, it's a series of quotations and assertions implying – while very carefully avoiding making any actual statements to the effect – that Apple's board is either incompetent or negligent. If there is anything useful in this article, it lies in the quotations (more blogs it appears, regrettably), rather than Gruber's non-assertions. I removed the paragraph again. --Rogerb67 (talk) 18:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
I have also removed the medical detail; this applies to all affected patients, and thus properly goes in the respective articles. I put the properly-referenced islet cell carcinoma survival details in the appropriate article; the Whipple procedure complications were unfortunately unreferenced so I was unable to add them to the article.--Rogerb67 (talk) 18:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree with those removals. I had moved those references to their own section because I wasn't sure where they came from in the first place, but they do not belong in the article. Regarding the initial paragraph:

As the CEO of a publicly-held corporation, news of Jobs' health concerns material facts which a reasonable investor would consider in whether or not to invest in Apple securities. Willful attempts to conceal his state of health may constitute a violation of securities laws and Apple Inc.'s Board of Directors has a legal responsibility to keep abreast of Jobs' health and disclose any significant developments to shareholders.<ref name=gruberexaggerated>Gruber, John. Greatly Exaggerated, (September 11, 2008) Daring Fireball (2nd to last paragraph).</ref>

I disagree with your removal of this paragraph. When it was originally added to the page it was inappropriate but I do think it is important to point out the significance of Steve's health and why it is being followed so closely. I tried to rewrite it; I removed the blatantly POV statement and provided a reference. Daring Fireball likely isn't the best source, but it provides a fair overview of the situation. Gruber has been very conservative when reporting on Steve's health and has not tolerated others' inappropriate speculation on Jobs' health.[8] I'd love to buoy the paragraph with additional sources and it still needs some copy editing, but it is an important point to make. I believe your characterization of the article as "implying ... Apple's board is either incompetent or negligent" is inaccurate and to the contrary I think it makes the opposite point. Let me quote the relevant section:

"If Apple’s board of directors knows Jobs’s full bill of health, it would be illegal for them to stand by and allow Jobs and Apple’s PR department to make statements to the contrary. And if the board does not know Jobs’s full bill of health, they’re neglecting their legal responsibilities."

He is saying the board can't allow Apple to lie or be misleading about Jobs' health and they are legally required to be informed about his health. I believe the implication you are making stems from how the paragraph is currently written, but with a rewrite the seeming implication that the Board is somehow incompetent would no longer appear in the text. Gruber is factually accurate in his characterization of the situation and does not imply that Apple's board is somehow negligent. Please help improve this paragraph instead of summarily removing it. ~ PaulT+/C 03:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
The reason I removed the paragraph again is the same I removed it in the first place - I don't believe it belongs here. I don't think it is encyclopedic in this location because it is not what the general reader would be looking for when looking in this section of Steve Jobs' article; he would be looking for information on Jobs' historical and current medical status. This section should not contain – and certainly should not start with – discussion of the legal position Apple's board may be in. Any discussion of the merits of the source are secondary; you may well be correct that I mischaracterised Gruber's intent. However, while he is an apparently noteworthy commentator who is cited in the news and thus citable, his opinions should be noted as just that – his opinions, particularly in matters concerning corporate law, where as far as I can tell he has no professional qualifications. --Rogerb67 (talk) 11:51, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
On rereading the article, I think you're right, I did mischaracterise Gruber's intent. How about adding the following at the end of the penultimate paragraph (where it makes senes chronologically):

According to John Gruber, Apple's reporting of Steve Jobs's health can be taken to be accurate, since otherwise the board would be in breach of their legal responsibilities. <ref name=gruberexaggerated>Gruber, John. Greatly Exaggerated, (September 11, 2008) Daring Fireball (2nd to last paragraph).</ref>

something like this was my intention initially, but my misreading of the article stopped me. --Rogerb67 (talk) 12:11, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

>Undent> That looks good to me... ~ PaulT+/C 22:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Allegation Jobs is considering a liver transplant

According to the cited article [9], this is from unnamed sources. Jobs, Apple etc. are staying silent. Is this solid enough for inclusion - it reads like rumour rather than solid fact to me, and many of the current news reports seem to agree. I suggest we remove it as rumour and wait and see. --Rogerb67 (talk) 15:25, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

After further reading [10] [11] I've decided to go ahead and edit this; please feel free to delete entirely (still my preferred option), discuss further or find more authoritative references. --Rogerb67 (talk) 15:42, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
I read the article and it is clearly speculation. "People who are monitoring his illness" can include anyone who is following the illness - including us. It is not a reliable statement until the source is substantiated by someone who is actually in contact with the doctors treating Jobs, Jobs himself, or Apple's Board. I've removed the paragraph. ~ PaulT+/C 23:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Pescetarian?

Perhaps; I found two apparently reliable sources [12] [13] describing him as "vegetarian", a common term for those who follow a pescetarian diet. --Rogerb67 (talk) 10:27, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

It is simply wrong to assume that vegetarianism is some category that includes pescetarianism. Pescetarianism can in no way be considered a more specific form of vegetarianism. It is a variation on it, making a pescetarian a pescetarian and a vegetarian a vegetarian, with nothing in between. Pescetarians eat fish, while vegetarians do not. Pescetarians are sometimes refered to as pesco-vegetarians, but some consider this term misleading, because it evokes an intuitive understanding that does not correspond to the real meaning of the term. Calling Steve jobs a vegetarian (assuming he really does eat fish) is a simple matter of misappropriation of a clearly defined terminology, and there is absolutely no need here to call him a vegetarian when in fact he is something else. Yes, there are books out there that will refer to a pescetarian diet as vegetarian, but it's just because they don't know about the word pescetarian, or they assume their intended audience doesn't. Some may say that words should not matter that much in general, and that maybe we should not get too analytical and narrow-minded here, but then again, that's precisely why terms like that exist, and while we are at it, we could use them correctly as well. If you definitely know he eats fish, the term vegetarian should be changed to something along the lines of "pescetarian, meaning that while he does not eat meat, he eats fish.". That would nail it.

--Daarribas (talk) 01:21, 05 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.245.226.246 (talk)

Vegetarian

Perhaps this is an interesting fact that came out from Steve Jobs himself and the link is already available in the main page as link 17 (speech at Stanford). While at Reed he was poor and would walk 7 miles across town every Sunday night to get one good vegetarian meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abrahma (talk • contribs) 21:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Leave of absence

He is still the C.E.O. He has been diagnosed with a hormone balance, explaining the weight loss, and will remain C.E.O. as he undergoes treatment. Steve Jobs wrote on Monday, January 5, 2009, “I will be the first one to step up and tell our board of directors if I can no longer continue to fulfill my duties as Apple’s C.E.O.”

source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/technology/companies/06apple.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arannarose (talk • contribs) 16:40, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Salary

Currently it says $1 now somehow I don't think that's right can a mod correct it please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.162.41 (talk) 23:53, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I think three citations are sufficient to support this well-known fact. --Rogerb67 (talk) 00:38, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
He may only earn $1 per year, but the other perks add up. Probably a huge expense account, free computers, etc., which probably add up to at least half a million per year, if not more. Is there any way to find out exactly what Apple spends on his behalf? Is it in the annual report? 72.87.243.160 (talk)

Current health status

Jobs and staff at Apple claim that he has recovered from his pancreatic cancer, and that he has some kind of unspecified hormone problem which means he cannot work for months. Obviously, his medical records are not accessible to the public, so we cannot know for sure what his current condition is, but it seems more likely that he currently has pancreatic cancer and / or complications caused by said disease or treatment that he had for it. If he really does have a hormone imbalance, how could it be known that he would need six months to recover from it? Someone with detailed knowledge of such conditions, please state what the truth of the situation is most likely to be. Nietzsche 2 (talk) 01:19, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Given his prior work records, it's impossible to believe that this is not something related to his pancreatic neuroendocrine tumor. It's possible that either: 1) he is ill from an equally devastating condition that is truly unrelated; 2) they were lying about the pathology all along and this was pancreatic adenocarcinoma rather than the less deadly neuroendocrine subtype. It's hard to believe what Apple has been telling the public. Given the inconsistencies so far, it seems more likely that they're waiting for the appropriate time to disclose his condition where it will have a minimal stock market effect... although all of what I am saying is speculation. GG The Fly (talk) 23:08, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Is he still planning to return to work at the end of June? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.100.48.167 (talk) 17:29, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Parents

Biological and adoptive: are each of them alive or dead? Nietzsche 2 (talk) 01:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Steve Paul Jobs. Prince of Asturias awards 2009 nomination

The Association of Graphic Arts of Asturias ( http://agasturias.es/noticia2.asp?codigo=116 ) has proposed to co-founder of Apple, as a candidate in the category of Science and Technology Award 2009 Prince of Asturias. The nomination is supported by the Spanish Federation of Industries Graphic ( http://www.feigraf.es/ ) and emphasizes the major trend of Jobs and his contributions, especially in the design of the GUI, the founding of Apple and the many innovative devices that have launched ( PDF of the nomination (Spanish, published by El Mundo http://estaticos.elmundo.es/documentos/2009/02/26/candidaturaSJ2009_ok.pdf ) The application provides an overview of the life and work of Jobs stressing that “under his leadership, Apple has been developing innovative concepts that are standard today.” Among them are the iMac, iPod, iTunes, iPhone … for those who say “all marked a turning point in its different sections, one before and one after it has finished checking the path in the evolution of trends in the lifestyle of present and future generations.” The partnership expects to support the nomination, whose awards will be delivered in the autumn in Oviedo. Interestingly, the candidacy of one of the most prestigious awards in the world after the Nobel, he arrives at the Jobs that his health is not very good due to a pancreatic cancer that has suffered and that led him to leave temporarily direction of Apple.

Prince of Asturias Awards

The Prince of Asturias Awards ( http://www.fundacionprincipedeasturias.org/webpremios/ing/02/index.html ) are annual prizes given by the Fundación Príncipe de Asturias in Spain, in eight categories, including arts, communications, literature and sports, among others. The yearly awards, which began in 1981, seek to acknowledge notable achievements in each category from the prior year. The Prince of Asturias Foundation was founded in the city of Oviedo on September 24th, 1980, at a formal ceremony presided over by the Prince of Asturias. http://www.fundacionprincipedeasturias.org/webpremios/ing/03/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xelu10 (talk • contribs) 10:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Health Concerns

I noticed that the article doesn't show that when Bloomberg's mistaken article was released, Apple's stock took a big hit that day, I think it was around 6%.. this is kind of important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.180.191.79 (talk) 20:47, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Is it time to update that Steve is soon returning to Apple, presumably in bettter health now, according to the wall street journal? See: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124415751596986965.html <<((:-:))>>0X0<<((:-:))>> (talk) 13:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

No, that article is just rumor. Wait until he actually returns. Tweisbach (talk) 02:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
CNBC has confirmed it, see the ref I added. But I'm leaving the "it has been reported" in this BLP. PhGustaf (talk) 20:04, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Steve's Birthplace is incorrect. He was born in Green Bay Wisconsin.G4tom (talk) 04:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Someone needs to fix Steve's birthplace. He was born in Green Bay Wisconsin. Then adopted by a family in California. His mother also had his sister in Green Bay after she married Steve's biological father.G4tom (talk) 04:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC) G4tom (talk) 04:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, you're incorrect. As the given reference, an interview with Steve Jobs states:
Steve Jobs (SJ): I was born in San Francisco, California, USA, planet Earth (Why the heck would he say planet Earth, or USA for that matter? - Albert Ibarra), February 24, 1955. I can go into a lot of details about my youth, but I don't know that anybody would really care about that too much.
--Marty Goldberg (talk) 05:09, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

No, for some reason he is saying that now but it is false a lie he is mad or whatever. That young single unwed mother did not travel to California to have the baby and then go back home to Wisconsin. Do a quick google search.. Half will say California and half will say Wisconsin. It has only been in the last few years that this I was born in California thing was started. Even Wikipedia used to state that he was born in Green Bay.G4tom (talk) 15:01, 4 May 2009 (UTC) Go here to read more. http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2005/12/steve_jobs_wisc.html This link is about his Famous novelist sister and books she wrote like "Lost Father" read it also. http://biography.jrank.org/pages/4738/Simpson-Mona.html G4tom (talk) 15:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Holy Moses g4tom! You are beginning to sound more like Fredric Alan Maxwell every day. You are saying Steve Jobs is a liar and a madman for telling the truth - that he was born in San Francisco? And suggesting we do a google search to prove it? Or read a novel written by his biological sister? I hope you don't rely on google for the proof of birth necessary to get an official birth certificate, g4tom.

But let's get back to business. This subject - the birthplace of SJ - has been discussed endlessly in these pages. Look in the archives. Admittedly they are not easy to enter from this page, but it can be done. It is all there, all verifiable, all correct.

You want us to read the novel by Jobs' biological sister? Even better, why don't you all go to her Wikipedia site: Mona Simpson (novelist). Here you will find an article from the Green Bay Press Gazette posted by me. This is an interview with her cousin which talks about the parents and the fact that they went to California for the birth. They were both students at the time and unmarried. This was the fifties for heaven's sake and unmarried girls who got pregnant would quietly drop out of school and leave town for a while. Usually it was to go to a home for unmarried mothers, where they would have the baby, leave it to be adopted and return to their studies.

In the case of Steve Jobs' biological parents, they were both at the university. And they both left town, went to California together, and immediately after the birth returned to Wisconsin & school. The original couple who had been in line to adopt, a pair of lawyers, decided they wanted a girl. So the baby went to the second couple on the list, Paul & Clara Jobs. Later, the biological parents would get married and have Mona, the writer. And then divorce. Wallnut (talk) 23:32, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Disney Shareholder

Noloop recently made a change to the article which took away the claim that Steve Jobs is the largest shareholder of Disney. Is there any recent information on this? Tweisbach (talk) 09:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

The answer is in Footnote #8 on the main page: The 400 Richest Americans

#43 Steve Jobs - The Forbes 400 Richest Americans 200909.30.09, 06:00 PM EDT .....Best investment: bought Pixar from George Lucas in 1986 for $10 million; created string of hits (Finding Nemo, Toy Story). Sold to Disney in 2006 for $7.4 billion in stock. Today is Disney's largest shareholder; stake worth $3.9 billion.' --douga6 08:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality

S/O added a NPOV tag on the health problems section, but there is no associated disussion on the disussion page. I removed the tag. if the S: or another one want it back, he's welcome to add it back and to argument on the discussion page. --Dwarfpower (talk) 11:58, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Younger pictures

The article only includes pictures of Jobs from the past few years. Shouldn't a picture or two from the 80s with Wozniak be included?--Marcus Brute (talk) 02:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

If a free, non-copyrighted one can be found, yes. Otherwise, no. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 02:41, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The Breakout payment

As confirmed by Steve Wozniak himself in the reference provided, he recieved 50% of the supposed $700, not %600. --89.216.152.158 (talk) 00:03, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Current Status - as of September 2009

Is he back at work? Full time? I haven't heard anything since his supposed return to work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.100.48.167 (talk) 02:00, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes he is. - Albert Ibarra —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.138.203.253 (talk) 14:03, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Chairman title

The wikipedia article assigns Steve Jobs the "Chairman and CEO of Apple" title. However, there seems to be no official "Chairman" of Apple according to their own website. Steve Jobs simply has the CEO title only. 71.191.25.219 (talk) 05:11, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

That would appear to be correct. Apple's website lists just "Directors", with no titles among them. However, Reuters claims that Arthur Levinson and William Campbell are "Co-Lead Director"s. Jobs is listed just as "Director", like every other member of the Board. - User ehurtley writing unloggedin from 76.105.147.25 (talk) 23:10, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Salary

The infobox tells that Jobs earns $1 per year. However, the sources listed only state that he earns $1 from Apple Computer. Elsewhere in the infobox there is a notice telling that he also works for the Walt Disney Company, and no sources tell how much he earns from that company. I believe that the current sources are insufficient. (Stefan2 (talk) 15:27, 20 September 2009 (UTC))

get it right it is actually steven paul jobs not steve paul jobs

Not sure about "get it right", but Stefan2, that's an interesting point. (It would help a lot if we could find out how much he makes from Disney.)HereToHelp (talk to me) 02:22, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

You know we could stop focusing on such stupid and pointless matters such as how much steve jobs earns and focus on other important matters like how to stop world hunger or where did elvis really go (that's a joke). im only here cause im bored and have to do some stupid research paper for steve and bill gates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.138.203.253 (talk) 13:40, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Why is his salary still only $1 per year? Apple is doing very well. They can afford to pay him a decent wage. When Jobs came back to Apple, they were on the verge of going out of business. I understand the reason for doing it then, but why today?173.58.251.147 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:46, 4 April 2010 (UTC).

CEO of the Decade

{{editsemiprotected}} Please add mention and citation of Fortune Magazine's cover story November, 2009 naming Steve Jobs "CEO of the Decade." I believe of particular relevance is this quote from the story: "In the past 10 years alone he has radically and lucratively reordered three markets -- music, movies, and mobile telephones -- and his impact on his original industry, computing, has only grown." You can access the main page of the article here: [14] and the page to cite with the above quote is the last sentence of the 5th paragraph here: [15]. If fair use allows, I think you should also add an image of the Fortune Magazine cover which can be found here: [16]. --DJRizzo (talk) 11:29 pm, Yesterday (UTC−5) Moved from the to do list by ~ Amory (u • t • c) 13:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Welcome and thanks for the suggestion. Hopefully someone interested in this article will take it up. I un-transcluded the {{editsemiprotected}} template since it is only meant to be used for situations where an editor wants to make a specific change to an article. If no one takes up your suggestion, you can switch this to an edit request by specifying the change you woudl like in a 'Please change X to Y' level of detail. Cheers, Celestra (talk) 15:51, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}}Jobs named CEO of the Decade

{{editsemiprotected}} Nobody has yet added to the Honors category that he was named CEO of the Decade by Fortune Magazine. http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/04/technology/steve_jobs_ceo_decade.fortune I'd be happy to do it, but it appears that I am not able to. Could somebody else take care of this who has access or provide me access so I can make the update?

Thanks,

Segue

I'm tlping the request because that fact has already been mentioned. BejinhanTalk 13:43, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Insulinoma

So Insulinoma is the most common islet cell tumor of the pancreas. And 80% of insulinomas have Multiple endocrine neoplasia type 1. If he does he is at risk for a whole bunch of other cancers. Do any sources say anything about this that we could add more information about his cancer.

Wikileaks has some documents suggesting that Steve Jobs has HIV and that his pancreatic cancer was probably Kaposi's sarcoma, "which are noted to emulate pancreatic cancer in HIV-positive patients". Why is this not mentioned in the wikipedia article?
Zowki (talk) 13:31, 28 June 2010 (UTC)zowki
Because it is still speculation, which is unencyclopedic. Bring some references that are conclusive and reliable, and then it can be included.--Edgewise (talk) 13:39, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs_purported_HIV_medical_status_results,_2008
Zowki (talk) 13:32, 10 July 2010 (UTC)zowki
That cite is so specualtive and inconclusive it does not rise to the level necessary for inclusion in Wikipedia. --Edgewise (talk) 14:28, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

serious bullying aspects and abusive characteristics of the person's personality

Hi, I am quite alarmed with the fact that how certain charismatic characters could be so much admired holistically in the mass context and discourse, just because the individual is quite so much successful in business and persona symbolizations, without any critical discussions by the public for the type of social abuses which are quite common, and even extreme in some charismatic context, much hidden but prevalent in the human society. I am quite sure the below could be only a partial description, since I have heard, read, and... the many sides a situation or history could have are quite vastly.

steve jobs Legendary Apple co-founder and boss from hell, Jobs told a woman he was interviewing for an upper-level human resources position, "I've never met one of you who didn't suck. I've never known an HR person who had anything but a mediocre mentality." And once during a heated meeting exchange, the sockless wunderkind suddenly kicked his shoes off and stuck his bare feet in a manager's face.

Famous Bully Bosses, 2001, www.allbusiness.com


But then there’s Good Steve. Abused employees, if they survive, often find themselves praised to the heavens.

technology.timesonline.co.uk


Of course, such the likes may be charming and amiable characters to some, or many, but on a human-rights context, the factors of charisma, success, and abusive power combined is quite interestingly alarming. And this and other related context could certainly be included as a factor of information, on a diversive point of view. How do you think? --Makesdark (talk) 11:37, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

here's another source

Harvard Business Review focuses on narcissists
8 May 2000: Harvard Business Review Jan-Feb 2000 (pages 69-77) contains an article by Michael Maccoby entitled Narcissistic leaders : the incredible pros, the inevitable cons. The article explores the strengths and weaknesses of the narcissistic leaders and suggests that "because of their independence and aggressiveness, they are constantly looking out for enemies, sometimes degenerating into paranoia when they are under extreme stress."
The article continues: "Narcissistic leaders typically keep others at arm's length ... given their difficulty with knowing or acknowledging their own feelings, they are uncomfortable with other people expressing theirs - especially their negative feelings ... Narcissists are almost unimaginable thin-skinned ... They cannot tolerate dissent. In fact, they can be abrasive with employees who doubt them or subordinates who are tough enough to fight back. Steve Jobs (CEO and Founder of Apple), for example, publicly humiliates subordinates. Thus, although narcissistic leaders often say they want teamwork, what that means in practise is that they want a group of yes-men. As the more independent-minded players leave or are pushed out, succession becomes a particular problem ... There is a kind of emotional intelligence associated with narcissists, but it's more street smart then empathy. They know who they can use. They can be brutally exploitative."

www.bullyonline.org/

--Makesdark (talk) 17:22, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
another:

While many of these stories about Jobs have been all over Silicon Valley for years, the newer anecdotes in this book indicate that the level of personnel abuse, erratic antisocial behavior and manic swearing has increased to an extreme. Worse for Apple, none of these stories have been heard by the investment community. Until now. ...... But Jobs' real skills have never been visionary. They've been the skills of serendipitous recognition. He can spot a winner. ...... Each time he has actually used his own vision to design anything or promote a new direction he has shown no talent. Those flops: the Lisa computer; the short-lived Twiggy disk drive, a non-compatible floppy subsystem he promoted; and the NeXT computer with its monochrome display and lack of a floppy disk altogether. All losers.

forbes.com/2000/10/23/

this is around 2000, with povs and related coverage; it is interesting how the "success" statas quo has a benchmark effect on how a personality could be legitimately "allowed" to be represented in public --Makesdark (talk) 04:27, 24 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi, I'm reviving two older discussion threads, below, that seemed relevant to the subject --Makesdark (talk) 14:08, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Article on Steve Jobs

Hi. I read an article on Steve Jobs a few years ago, and it was absolutely devastating. Among other things, the author quoted Jobs saying "fuck 'em!" when reminded that Apple customers would be upset when Jobs pulled the plug on a vendor who was supplying customer support. What emerged from the article was a nasty, bullying person who actually makes Bill Gates look good by comparison. Problem is, I can't remember what the magazine was! I'd love to track down that article, but there have been so many written about him that typical reference tools are no good. It was in a wide-circulation magazine such as Esquire and probably written in the late 1990s but no later than 2003. Anyone know what the article/journal was??

Not sure if this is it, or gets you any closer to it, but here's a quote: "In his book, The Second Coming Of Steve Jobs, Alan Deutschman says that one of Jobs’s favorite saying is “f*** ‘Em”, when speaking about vendors, suppliers, competition, and customers." It's from an on-line article at : http://www.macnet2.com/more.php?id=A329_100_1_0 -J.R.

thread revived by --Makesdark (talk) 14:08, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Biased entry?

This article seems biased to me, as it mentions almost none of the negative aspects of Steve Job's life. I think this article should be more balanced. A few examples of negative issues that seem as though they would be mentioned in more detail:

1. His ruthless managerial practices as an extremely demanding manager. He would berate employees, forcing them to work 80+ hours per week and abusing them mentally.

2. His outright refusal to recognize his biological daughter for years. He refused to pay a single dime of child support to his daughter's unwed mother even after Job's took his company public and became a deca-millionaire.

3. Just as he accuses Microsoft of "copying" or on occasion "stealing" Mac, he did the same from Xerox.

I am not out to get Steve Jobs, but none of this information (especially the information about Lisa) is mentioned, and that makes it appear as though this were more of a fanboy article rather than an encyclopedic entry. Unsigned contribution by Buffettjr

If you can find viable sources to validate all of these claims, then I doubt you'll find much opposition. Bbatsell 22:39, 7 September 2005 (UTC) The first two have been in just about every book written on Jobs in the past 25 years, and should be included. The third one is more problematic. Will amend when I get time. ianbetteridge Number three is nonsense. Apple paid for its engineers to visit Xerox in stock options, that Xerox later sold for a few million dollars. Pirates of Silicon Valley is entertaining but please don't think for a second that it is anywhere close to accurate. AlistairMcMillan 07:46, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh please. If you find displeasure in the article, it's within your power to edit judiciously and make it more balanced. Doing a "post and run" is pointless, since you've added no new content except to complain in the discussion section.

Just a primer posting before I start editing the Steve Jobs entry:

While well-written, I feel that the bias of this article is clear. Jobs has a strong personality and is controversial and provocative for a reason. But by reading this article, it's as if he's never stepped on any toes or made a few mistakes. I'll put my money where my mouth is though. After some more research and linking, I'll be picking at the article, adding and editing where needed. Note I won't be deleting content, as I believe that both a favorable and unfavorable position on Steve Jobs should be presented ... Unsigned contribution by 67.169.61.57

thread revived by --Makesdark (talk) 14:08, 22 January 2010 (UTC)


Why have you deleted the information about his mother and her surname( nee - Hagopian)??? although it may not be the most important detail of his biography, it doesn't mean it can be removed. Moreover the person(Max Shakhray) who removed her native surname has also done it in the russian version - therefore i can only interpret it as anti-armenian propaganda! the man tries to conceal his mother's nationality from the public. I really hope that fact would be returned to the biography as soon as possible! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.178.99.61 (talk) 20:23, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

not me --Makesdark (talk) 03:13, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Shoes

If you look at the Gizmodo source for his clothing, it mentions that he wears New Balance 911s. But in the source they cite, it says New Balance 922s. Which is right? Lightningstripe (talk) 23:15, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Personal Life

Lisa (born May 17, 1978) gave birth to a son in 1993, making Steve a grandfather. Is this true? --Marvin 101 (talk) 06:07, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Lisa's a personal friend, and no, she definitely did not have a kid at 15 -- or any age for that matter. Totally bizarre. 71.234.192.14 (talk) 15:54, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

One more thing

Shouldn't his typical "one more thing" way of introducing new products be mentioned? PizzaMan (talk) 17:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Steve Jobs and ISKCON ("Hare Krishna" people)

Steve Jobs said in 2005 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc Steve Jobs' 2005 Stanford Commencement Address

that he "went to Hare Krishna temple when he didn't have money". So he was attending ISKCON and that might influenced him to found Apple computers. We can also remind that George Harrison of Beatles also had Apple recording lable and donated to publish Gaudiya-Vaisnava "Krishna book" of ISKCON. So it was at same 1960-1970th and both George Harrison and Steve Jobs are related to ISKCON (chanting "Hare Krishna") and somehow have similar names: Beatles recorded in Apple recording studio, and Steve Jobs also founded Apple computers. Both Steve Jobs and George Harrison thus have strong relation to "Hare Krishna". Before death Steve Jobs chanted "Hare Krishna" mahamantra in ISKCON temple [source needed]. And Steve Jobs also said in 2005 about Hare Krsna as very important for his Apple company. So it is doubtful that he is pure buddhist, but seems to be more related with hinduism at least based on his 2005 Stanford university speech. watch video: [17] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.133.88.216 (talk) 19:38, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

What does all this mean? BashBrannigan (talk) 21:34, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
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