Talk:Spatial music

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Music theory

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There is a vandal keeping this article[edit]

Who takes the decision to erase every information added to this Spatial Music article? This person, to do so, has to believe, he or she is the authority for spatial music knowledge! But showing the poorness of the article, we think that this erasing-person is as Wikipedia calls them: a vandal.

So please, people from Wikipedia, identify this vandal of this Spatial Music article to stop this information eraser to grow up the article of different knowledge from different view and sides of people who really experience Spatial Music.

Since the birth of spatial music in 1958 initiated by Iannis Xenakis with Edgar Varèse at the Brussels World's Fair in 1958 following by Karlheinz Stockhausen with Kontakte starting in 1958 (to 1960), the history of Spatial Music is rich in development... (unfortunately mixed up with "surround sound" which is a sound system conceived for the cinema, or "immersive sound" which is a sound system conceived for headphone with the binaural technology to travel in false real artificial images context, both are not for music.) ... these developments has to be shown in this article, but every additional text are erased by a vandal.

90.96.46.108 (talk) 17:04, 18 September 2018 (UTC) Mathius Shadow-Sky (composer of spatial music since 1980, inventor of choreosonic and polytrajectophonic instrumental and orchestral music; among others: http://centrebombe.org)[reply]

I assume you are referring to my removing your additions to the list of spatial types cited to Robin Maconie's book. In one of my edit summaries, I referred you to WP:HIJACK. If you have not read it yet, please do so now. Maconie lists just three types; if there are other types to add, please do so after the Maconie citation, and provide a reliable source for these categories. Also, for your information, Stockhausen's first spatial electronic composition was Gesang der Jünglinge (1955–56), not Kontakte and, in any case, spatialized electronic music dates back at least to the 1951 premiere of Pierre Schaeffer's Symphonie pour un homme seul, which doubtless had some influence on Varèse.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:09, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You erased 2 or 3 times what I wrote, without knowing, because you are attached to one book believing it is the truth, means you do not act in spatial music has I do since 1979 as a composer and engineer. Just because you believe being right by reading a book? You can argue thinking you are right because of a book reference: it does not mean this author has the authority on the matter. The knowledge is not to forbid is to question. Propaganda forbids.

By using this kind of expression: “for your information”: is your way (the usual way) to express your contempt. For sure, contempt is the best way to feed knowledge for good! I am sarcastic by sadness of useless “fighting cocks” (= “coq” in French)! The level of knowledge decrease because nobody thinks, instead copies.

The intention of a moving sound in space started with Xenakis and Varèse invited by Le Corbusier in 1958 with the Philips pavilion in Brussels world fair; and, with Stockhausen with Kontakte. In Gesang der Jünglinge, there was no intention of moving sound in trajectories (even if the music was composed for 4 channels). Stockhausen built his swivel table after (to get sounds moving in circle). But of course the idea of spatial music started long long time ago. With only the intention of dividing the choir of singers in different locations, it is spatial music. Does it exist a reference to cite these historical music experiences? No. And who cares? Because we know, as composers, it has existed (because also of the choir “repons form” and, the constant inventive composer’s mind) and we, composers transmit this knowledge, we are working and acting on, a life (40 years for me). With “La Symphonie pour un homme seul” of Pierre Henry and Pierre Schaeffer, they were no intention of sound spatialisation (mixing/sonorisation with a P.A. has not to be mixed up with spatialisation). Pierre Henry believed always, until his death, to the monophonic sound diffusion (even on several loudspeakers). Saying : “which doubtless had some influence on Varèse” is false of course (sound as arrogant music teacher). I was born in Paris and working among all these people I knew personally. And in the small world of new music, composers are talking, to exchange their knowledge. These (false) “knowledge” quarrel has sense for coward people who need to be seen and recognize because they are frustrated: it is not an argument to do so, but it is used to do so! These people are governing the others. It is why our species are in dangerous situation on Earth.

The problem with public knowledge, that support Wikipedia, is believers. Believers believe they know better than the others. They are convince they know, with certainty, without doubt nor living or acting about what they are talking about. In fact, they are blocking the real knowledge. Believers block the article access to other contributors by guarding the article by erasing what they consider not bearable! In this way they feed the mediocracy we are suffering in 21 century. My contribution would be to give some clarification and explanations on what I am working on, since almost 40 years, but I have this profound feeling, here is not my place. There is no sense for me to feed Wikipedia and to waste my time with people believing they know better than the others without questioning themselves on what it is to know if you do not live what you say you know.

Mathius Shadow-Sky

90.96.51.238 (talk) 20:03, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you say so. Wikipedia nevertheless requires citations to reliable sources. Neither you nor I qualify as one.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:37, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So, is not the Dies Irae from Berlioz's requiem about as much as spatial music ever has been, with 4 horn sections in the 4 corners of the hall?

I think the dates given in the article utterly deny the reality of the situation. Even back to pipe organs well before the 1800's, having the remote ranks, theme and answer, etc, are obviously spatial to me. I think this article needs substantial revision! 2601:600:9082:8DE0:B413:F3C4:3347:90FF (talk) 19:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]