Talk:Simko Shikak

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Simko, the beloved hero of the Kurds in 20th century.

Simko was a great, brave patriotic Kurd who fought courageously the brutal, blood thirsty, anti Kurd Imperial system of Pahlavi Dynasty. There are hundreds of honest, notable and prominent Kurdish historians whom are appalled, astonished and disgusted by the ignorance, hatred and animosity of racist Persians and Turks of their irresponsible claim that Simko, the beloved Kurdish hero had committed massacres against Christians or any other religious minorities! Simko and his men were only fighting the occupiers of Kurdistan, which is the provinces of Sanandaj, Iilam, West Azerbaijan and Kermanshah in their entirety. Simko was assassinated by the coward criminals of the Pahlavi army who had promised him to sit with him and discuss the greater autonomy for the Kurds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.161.189.62 (talk) 23:17, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Since when are criminals hailed as heroes in Kurdish culture? What kind of a hero assassinates a peaceful religious figure under a white truce flag then goes and kills innocent civilians for being Christian? Doesn't sound like much of a hero to me... 108.200.85.182 (talk) 18:34, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

"In May 1915, he ordered the killing of the family of his cousin and rival, Nimrod Shimun, leader of the Jilu tribe, precluding cooperation during the Ottoman assault in the following months." Sure, a peaceful religious figure. And all assyrians were so peaceful, right? Factually, the Assyrians were amongst the most hostile (towards others) and brutal people throughout history. How they skinned, burned and killed non-Assyrians in past times during their reign, etc. 77.3.41.198 (talk) 10:42, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

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cewer ist not ja'far, cewer means cewher, or gewher, persian: gouhar.

Notability

Here is the proof from 1920s [http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washttp://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/button_sig.png Your signature with timestamphingtonpost_historical/access/192649122.html?dids=192649122:192649122&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=AUG+17%2C+1922&author=&pub=The+Washington+Post&desc=PERSIAN+REBELS+DEFEATED&pqatl=google], [1],[2].Heja Helweda 02:07, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

He was a hero. I understand why iranis hate him! Brusk u Trishka 11:16, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't call him a hero. He as other kurdish rebel leaders like Sheikh Ubeidullah and Sheikh Saidi Piran were not kurdish nationalists. They were in fact often religiously motivated attacking not just religious minorities like christian assyrians or armenians, but also kurdish alevis ect. They were religious fanatics created by the vacuum after the tolerant kurdish principalities had been destroyed.

I belive they did more harm to the kurds than they did good, for example they carried out massacres that stained the kurds reputation and also created a split between muslim kurds and non-muslim kurds as for example the Alevi Dimili/zazas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.208.209.254 (talk) 20:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Regardless, he created a Kurdish state and tried to advance Kurdish identity, which makes him a national leader despite his issues. Many of his atrocities have greatly been exaggerated over time by his detractors (religious minorities have a habit of blaming their misfortunes on religious hate, though it all was about land and forcing loyalty). I'm not saying he didn't do anything, his relation to the death of the Patriarch, suppression and killing of villagers, seeking refuge with the Turks, and his marital practices were despicable and without honor. He is an influential figure, regardless of his actions, as I said though --MercZ (talk) 02:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to start by saying that Simko did nothing for the Kurdish cause as his actions were influenced by Greed and not by nationalism. Your claim that he's a national hero is laughable and absurd. Simko as a national hero is akin to Adolph Hitler as a saint... ܐܵܬܘܿܪܵܝܵܐ 01:34, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Changes by Heja helweda

• 1- Heja changed "Young Turks" to "Turkey" .I don't think it's right , because according to text , the general who helped Simko , was Mustapha Kemal Pasha , former Turkish war minister That shows the word Young Turks fits more here , because the Turkish government was not officially involved and the Turkish nationalists (Young Turks) were supporting Simko .
  2- The image is relevant because the whole article is about the Simko , and is not about the Turkish involvement .
  3- I don't know why Heja deleted the reference section ? I think the sourced material should not be omitted.
  4- I think if we use the word republic due to the nytimes , the correct word may be a bandit republic , because the exact text is "...the Persian bandit Simko has proclaimed a Kurdish republic , assuming the presidency himself , after defeating the Shahs army." The new concept of republic, that Heja addressed to it , is different from a proclaimed state that a bandit and genocide performer says .--Alborz Fallah (talk) 07:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

1) Read Young Turks, they were a movement during Ottoman period until the end of World War I. The article here deals with 1918 onwards.

2) This article is about a specific personality, his name is not mentioned in the image, so it is irrelevant to this article. you can use elsewhere though.

3) There was no reference to Simko in the book "Islam and Dhimmitude". Again you are mixing Simko with all Kurds.

4) And what is exactly a bandit republic? There are other sources which clearly mention that he had ministers and a government. That would be violation of NPOV. Also please calm down, there was no genocide going on at the time. You are mixing Armenian genocide 1915 by the Ottomans. It has nothing to do with this article.Heja Helweda (talk) 00:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

1)If you prefer the exact sentence from the source , I will use Mustapha Kemal Pasha instead of Turkey : I think his help for Simko is directly mentioned in the source.
2)The person is the one who was the director of massacre :do you think we have to delete the "Image:Selection Birkenau ramp.jpg" in article about Hitler, just because the article is about the person and not about the Holocaust ?
3-OK again ! Because there is no on-line evidence for that book , no problem in deleting in that source
4- A republic has it's own definition and meaning . We can't use a single word in a news report to say he build a republic . I think we may ask the opinion of other editors to choose between these two sentences :
A - He organized a Kurdish rebellion to Pahlavi government in Iran (Reference : B. O'Leary, J. McGarry,The Future of Kurdistan in Iraq, University of Pennsylvania Press, 355 pp., ISBN 0812219732 (see p.7))
B-He established a Kurdsih republic.Refernce:KURDISH REPUBLIC FORMED

--Alborz Fallah (talk) 12:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

4-A and 4-B do not contradict each other; they are in a chronological order. Ellipi (talk) 15:27, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Corrupt numbers

Fixed some corrupt information, probably a "Proud-Persian"'s work. Simko's warriors did NOT outnumber the Persian Army. I changed the Persian soldiers from 8.000 to 100.000, the correct number is probably larger but I will leave this to someone else to fix. Simko's warriors could have been around 8.000, this should also be corrected, they were proabably fewer. And like most people who have read about Simko know, he inflicted a great damage on the Iranians, which means that he massacred (literally massacred, he wanted a cruel revenge) Iranian soldiers until he himself was caputred/killed.

The Iranian casualties were much more greater than the Kurdish casualties, if we count military losses only, which clearly is the only shown in the table. Civilian Kurds were killed, but since the table only shows the loss of Simkos's warriors and Shah Reza'z soldiers it should be noted in someother place. --Diyairaniyanim (talk) 12:28, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Cewer (Ja'afar) Agha and Cewer (Dja'far) Agha

Is this supposed to be two men or just one? Varlaam (talk) 06:30, 18 November 2012 (UTC)