Talk:Severn Tunnel Junction railway station

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Original name?[edit]

Is there any evidence that there was a station here either before the tunnel junction, or called Rogiet? I can find no evidence for either.

This claim is cited in the article, but only to a WP:SPS fan site http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r086.html and even that doesn't support the claim, merely that the station was at Rogiet, not called Rogiet. Andy Dingley (talk) 06:03, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It may be a fan site but have you checked the original map at the foot of the article (I'll go out on a limb and say that the "fan" who drew up the page didn't draw the map), it clearly marks the station at Rogiet as "Roggiett Station". Further articles such as http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/severn8.htm support the fact that the station was originally known as Roggiett. Again a fan page, you may argue, but it is also supported by http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=4803&NewsAreaID=2&SearchCategoryID=7. This being the Network Rail media portal, carries greater weight.
I think on balance the evidence is that it was known as Roggiett Station up to 1886. But you've awoken the historian in me and I'm never terribly pleased with online sources that I can't see myself. I've had family in Rogiet going back 3 generations; no doubt it will come up in conversation next time I'm down. I'll also do some library research and update. Reformatted (talk) 11:18, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
To address your added refs:
is dicussing plans for a railway to be constructed, not IMHO a description of one already existing. It's a very similar map to the one in "Severn Tunnel (I)". Track Topics: A GWR Book of Railway Engineering. 1971 [1935]. p. 179.. That too draws "Rogiet Station", but it also draws it as part of a completed tunnel route.
"the sidings at a little station near Rogiet" is an indication that there will be a station expanded (or possibly constructed) where we know it to be, but that's no real indication of the name. Particularly as any rename was, I think we agree, pretty much simultaneous with the opening of the tunnel line.
Suspiciously like a paste from WP, IMHO. I wouldn't trust Network Rail as WP:RS on anything railway-related, older than the mid-'90s.
There are several questions here:
  • Was there any station here before the tunnel?
  • Was this pre-tunnel station called Rogiet or Roggiett?
A few things are, in comparison, pretty uncontroversial:
  • If there was any station beforehand, it would have been called after the village and obviously was renamed.
  • There was little or no village here before the tunnel (even Sudbrook was bigger). The church, a farm, a couple of houses. Even the "old" houses in Rogiet, and most importantly the cattle market and the Roggiett Hotel, post-date the railway expansion driven by the tunnel and marshalling yard. This wasn't a village that warranted a railway station, at least not for the purpose of serving the village. To quote Hodge, John (2002). The South Wales Main Line. Vol. Part Two: Severn Tunnel to Newport. Wild Swan Publications. p. 35. ISBN 1-874103-76-3. With the opening ot the line [the South Wales line, not the tunnel] in June 1850, intermediate stations to the west of Portskewett [as far as the Usk at Newport] were initially provided at Magor and Llanwern.
If there had been a station, I'd expect it to be called Roggiett rather than Rogiet, as this seems to have been the railway's favoured spelling at that period. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:54, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I do agree with you for the most part, admittedly those sources aren't the best.
However, whoever first put that line into the article in the first place, must have had a reason to do so, so there may well be some truth in it. I think further research is required.
As for Rogiet/Roggiett, according to the parish archives at St Mary's Church is Rogiet, the spelling of Rogiet varied between the two varieties for many years before being standardised as Rogiet. I'd been led to believe that it was originally spelt "Roggiett", but it appears that for a time either was acceptable. Presumably when the Roggiett Hotel was built that spelling was in vogue.Reformatted (talk) 20:24, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ordnance Survey maps for the period 1881-7, although they indicate that construction of the Severn Tunnel is underway (pumping stations and associated tramways and sidings are marked), show NO STATION on the stretch of line past Rogiet/Roggiett where the junction was about to be laid (indeed, there is only plain track all the way between Magor station to the west and The Pill to the east, where there were tunnel construction sidings and an industrial connection to "Caldicot Wire Works").
I believe, therefore, that there was never any station at this site before completion of the tunnel and junction, and that although a station at Rogiet was certainly projected (I agree that, as suggested above, the map and sources mentioned relate to plans) the station that was opened in 1886 was almost certainly called Severn Tunnel Junction from the first. -- Picapica (talk) 10:40, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I re-wrote Rogiet on that basis a few weeks ago. Must get round to doing STJ.
Incidentallly, it's the 125th anniversary of the tunnel this year. Next Saturday, 3rd, there's an event at Sudbrook to celebrate that, and the opening of their new history centre. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:53, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Butt (1995) does not list any station named Rogiet, nor is there any indication of a previous name for STJ, which he merely shows as "Severn Tunnel Junction GW OP 1 December 1886" where OP=Opened. I don't have my Ian Allan Pre-Grouping Atlas with me, but I seem to recall the word "Rogiet" is shown on that, but of course it may have been a goods facility. It's also possible that such facility was on the original line through Chepstow, not on the tunnel line. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I just checked my Ian Allan Pre-Grouping Atlas. Rogiet is not shown on either line. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:50, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Ordnance Survey for !920 and 1940 shows the words "Severn Tunnel Junction" next to the station in a manner used at that time for naming stations. Curiously the 1940 shows an unamed halt a short distance to the east on the Gloucester line. Chevin (talk) 16:37, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's Caldicot. -mattbuck (Talk) 16:41, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That would be the un-named halt I guess. Chevin (talk) 16:48, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Caldicot junction. It was a significant junction (Caldicot wire works, Sudbrook and the tunnel pumping station, Caerwent) before it was a station. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:35, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maintaining an up to date encyclopedia[edit]

Please consider not using adverbs of time such as 'currently'. The WIKIPEDIA exists already for ten years as of this time/date stamp and such expressions can quickly get out of date. 5.67.59.110 (talk) 06:59, 14 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merger Proposal[edit]

Andy Dingley has suggested that the page about the Marshalling Yard with this page about the station. Unfortunatly Andy didn't set out an explanation or include information as required by WP:MERGEPROP

YES: That said, I think it seems to make sense to move the two together - as the station and yard are right next to each other and particularly as the marshalling yard page is just an infobox and a stub.

Comments welcome

Jpmaytum (talk) 17:33, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Case seems straightforward.   checkY Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 12:44, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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