Talk:Saint Vincent Beer/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Kusma (talk · contribs) 15:10, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Will review this one over the next few days. —Kusma (talk) 15:10, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Progress and general comments

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Interesting little article. I had not been aware of the existence of a Catholic temperance movement, I always thought that was mostly a Protestant thing. Maybe it's just an American thing.

• Sourcing seems fine.
• There should be images. Boniface Wimmer, Leander Schnerr, the Archabbey, Michael O'Connor are all relevant for this page, and you could use them to illustrate the article. If you find any old ads or similar, they'll be PD by now.
• Prose needs polishing, and the article seems slightly incomplete (Lamendola has the fire and lots of other information that is relevant but not included here).

Will put on hold and check back once you've had a chance to work on it. —Kusma (talk) 22:11, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Content and prose review

• Lead section is a bit short and doesn't give enough context. (Like, what country the archabbey is in).
• This happened because Pope Pius IX granted the monks permission to brew beer and sell it wholesale in 1852 hmm, it seems more that this happened because they were German monks, so they brewed beer as that was the traditional thing to do, and then appealed to the pope after some other people objected. Perhaps extend and reformulate this.
  • Fixed
• Apostolic Delegate to which country?
  • Fixed
• Background: novices or candidates? In either case, link.
  • Fixed
• the permission to sell it wholesale reference, and perhaps also state that they did explicitly not have permission to sell in taverns
  • I can use Oetgen 2000 (... Rome's 1855 decree had allowed for wholesale distribution..) Fixed
• The Latrobe Bulletin source tells us that Wimmer not only "appealed to the pope" but actually went to Rome. Also, the sources say that the monks only started brewing for outside sale in 1860 (out of respect for their bishop they waited until he died).
  • Fixed
• History section needs a copyedit. Just a few examples: the beer ... expanded to Baltimore sounds scary. start of the golden age Saint Vincent Beer missing word. At it's height, the archabbey was do you mean "it is"? Who is "it" and how high was the archabbey?
  • Reworked
• $50,000 (equivalent to $972,125 in 2020) false precision, should be $970,000 or $1 million.
  • retooled. The 1800s ref was dodgy for pricing
• Who is the Abstinence Society?
  • I can't find which of the catholic temperance groups this is in the sourcing beyond that name
• Gloss for Satolli (mention who he was like in lead)
  • Fixed
• Who was Zurcher, and what is "Monks and their Decline" (book? pamphlet?) (I found a little bit about him and the story and the context of American (mostly Irish) Catholic temperance here: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3170390 if you'd like another more scholarly source)
• Who was Martin Ignatius Joseph Griffin?
  • fixed
• Wasn't the real end of the brewery a fire that destroyed it?
  • The sources agree that it was Stehle's election followed by prohibition
• Beer: Did they make only one style of beer? (Sounds very un-Bavarian to me). But if the sources don't say anything, then we'll just assume that.
  • Sourcies only mention that one
• External links: do you have any?
  • None
    • I'd suggest to remove the empty header then; the navbox is not an external link and on mobile (where the navbox is hidden) it will look weird.

• @Kusma: can you take a second look? --Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 00:34, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
  • @Guerillero: Generally much better. Just add categories, remove or fill the empty xlinks header and this will be Good I think. —Kusma (talk) 14:35, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

    @Kusma: Done! -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 14:50, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

    Great, I'll go and officially declare this Good then :) —Kusma (talk) 14:59, 15 January 2022 (UTC)